The true reason why DE won't fix Lich RNG

[Pizzarugi]

9 minutes ago, Mikaer88 said:

I haven't kill a lich yet, is it really that bad huh? I'll probably farm them once all mainline updates are live. Perhaps they'll make changes once we are there.

If you're only in it for the gg kuva gun destination, and failing to appreciate the challenging journey leading to it, you probably won't enjoy it.

However, I'm liking the fact that I have opponents who don't instantly fold over the moment I encounter them, and the RNG encourages me to stay involved to try getting better weapons.

[ixidron92]

hace 11 minutos, Jarriaga dijo:

Darwin award then. In fact, I'll be actively cheering for them to get scammed. They'll deserve it considering they'd be required to put in some effort and inconvenience themselves in order to increase their chances of getting scammed, and still risk it. 

It has happened before in other videogames with items you're not able to trade directly. A black market usually appears. Even if they don't let people trade contracts for platinum, people will try to do so unofficially. That of course, will lead to some scams along the way. It's really not unusual.

[Dreddeth]

2 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

Did I? Have I? That's what you're inferring. I claim (and claimed) I've done no such things, yet you keep insisting I'm being dishonest and that' I'm bullying people when you're the one constantly accusing me of doing wrong and harboring ulterior, evil motives.

Maybe you should study your own behavior to the same depth you've allegedly studied that of others. Assuming that you have every right to be proud of your studies, it shouldn't be difficult to determine that deriding something as a "scheme" motivated solely by profit implies the existence of schemers whose sole aim is profit.

And if you thought being called a liar for acting like one was insulting, well, being called a schemer based on hearsay? That's even worse.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Dreddeth
Another typo.

[Rebore]

4 hours ago, Walkampf said:

And it doesn't go away either when trading to other players. So it doesn't generate any money for DE either.

In my trading days I have had a few people who went out of their way to actual buy plat to do the trade, so yes essentially making something worth trading will make DE money since there are people out there that will buy plat to be able to have that such item that they want. It does not 100% matter that the fact that the plat spent on buying a Lich contract did not come from the player buying the plat straight up to buy that Lich contract it is the fact that the player had that amount of plat on them to be able to buy that contract. Plat does not just S#&$ out of our asses when we are randomly playing the game. We as a whole, the Warframe community spend money on platinum so that we as a whole can have a trading system. The inability to buy plat as if it were not a F2P game and that there were no options to buy plat but to actually essentially farm it in-game then having such a system to trade Lich contracts would make DE no money but the fact that it is a F2P game and that the only way to get plat is to farm and sell items and to go to the roots, to actually get plat we as a player have to buy it somewhere down the line will spend that plat on buying Lich contracts essentially making DE more money down the line.

[844448]

Well OP, the price isn't set by DE. Price is set by players so don't make it like DE is the greedy one when the mafias in the game are the greedy one.

Also, you can choose not to buy it, it's not like you're sitting in a room with said mafia selling you a lich contract with underlings surrounding you with Thompson (Tommy Gun) in hand loaded and ready to turn you to a swiss cheese anytime you refuse. You can walk away and continue your life normally and if people have the power to refuse the ridiculous price those mafias will either pull the contract or lower the price significantly

[danang5]

IMO its not plat,at least not entirely,its engagement

more rng > more tried required in average > more engagement from the player

hell even some player might get desprate enough because of the extra rng and start buying the stuff they provide on the in game market to make things a bit easier for them,like the radiant requiem mod relic pack or the kuva lich hunter bundle

[Dragazer]

17 hours ago, Walkampf said:

Yeah, cause goverments are totalls fine with people moonlighting...

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moonlighting

- to work at an additional job after one's regular, full-time employment, as at night.

A transaction between two private citizens can be something as simple as someone buying old sneakers from their neighbor. 

Lmao the pure foolishness and ignorance I read these days. R I P my braincells after reading your posts. 

17 hours ago, Walkampf said:

Try to learn to read.

The pure irony, what a clown.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Dragazer

[TheHappyTyranid]

I wonder if anyone's taken the time to look at the mastery rank required to get to lichs or to obtain their weapons... (I think it's 15?)

It's going to be late game players doing it anyway, and late game players are likely already invested. Unlike rivens, which can start off at mastery rank 8, liches are a whole different bag of trix that feels a little bit more... challenging. Besides, I bet with the contract trading, you're still going to have to defeat the lich. If the sequence changes, then that'll make it all the better, IMO.

[Fallen77]

Lol, fixed now (on its way at least), what are you gonna complain about now ?

[0_The_F00l]

And what is inherently bad about it? 

DE does need to make money, I personally do not see an issue as long as the weapons themselves are reasonably powered. 

Playing thousands of plat for cosmetics to other players? Yeah, I don't see an issue with that either, cosmetics in game are bought for plat (or real money) anyway. You wanna spend your hard earned money to look good? That's your choice to make. 

Issue with rivens was how absolutely random they were, and how poorly they get updated against weapon power balance and how much they changed the games Meta. 

Don't see a problem with this honestly. 

[Emolition]

19 hours ago, Fire2box said:

Where do you think plat comes from? Someone has to buy it. 

Say I buy plat for 20 bucks and trade it to person B. Then person B trade them to person C and DE get 0 dollars for they wont magicly get 20 dollar from person B. Then person C trade it to person D and still DE get 0 dollars as they cant just charge 20  bucks from person C. As long as this keep going person to person DE get 0 dollars until some one break the chain and use the market. This is what he talking about not that I buy for 20 dollars and spend it in the market then the plats are gone. Person to person to person they are allways in game and they won't generate 20 dollar for DE with every trade as its still same platinum.

[DoomFruit]

16 hours ago, Dreddeth said:

Character assassination aimed in the general direction of the dev team, which you committed with your heavy-handed insinuations regarding their motivations for the new system, is certainly an attack.

It's not character assassination, it's extrapolation from past history. Riven prices *have* shot up over time, even though their stats do not increase. That plat comes from somewhere. Furthermore, nothing about the "lich" system is benevolent to the playerbase and so there is no reason to assume benevolence on the potential changes.

[Pizzarugi]

43 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

Lol, fixed now (on its way at least), what are you gonna complain about now ?

What fix and where did you hear about it?

[Fire2box]

16 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Darwin award then. In fact, I'll be actively cheering for them to get scammed. They'll deserve it considering they'd be required to put in some effort and inconvenience themselves in order to increase their chances of getting scammed, and still risk it. 

It would prove to DE it's a flat out terrible system. Rather then listen to why it has to be demonstrated to them. 

[Skaleek]

19 hours ago, Voltage said:

On topic: I don't think it's money, I just think it's a classic instance of something being grindy on release and being toned down later.

Agreed. This is a classic iterative cycle for DE. It's just painful patch after patch because I want to play the new content, but i know my time won't be respected right now. I could wait a few months and it will be much more reasonable, but then I dont get to experience the content right away.

It's not the worst problem to have, but I figure it's probably bad when a small percentage (im guessing) of the community actually disregards new content because they know DE has purposefully made it too taxing on a player to sustain grind. It takes a lot of self restraint to not play the content.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Skaleek

[Fire2box]

29 minutes ago, Emolition said:

As long as this keep going person to person DE get 0 dollars until some one break the chain and use the market.

It doesn't though people buy boosters, slots, forma's, etc. The mere act of hoarding plat also removes it from the market. Unless the plat traded for is used instantly to trade with another player, it is removed from the player market. 

The entire basis of the plat trading system is for players to by the 20p slot, the 35p forma bundles, the 90p riven slots, the 40, 80, 200 plat boosters. That they don't want to personally pay for. You can pretend this doesn't exist, that this doesn't happen. 

 

DE doesn't get money when plat is used. they get it when it's bought.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Fire2box

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Agreed. This is a classic iterative cycle for DE. It's just painful patch after patch because I want to play the new content, but i know my time won't be respected right now. I could wait a few months and it will be much more reasonable, but then I dont get to experience the content right away.

Exactly this. Unfortunate, but this is their development cycle. 
>Release new grindy content.

>Take feedback*

>Reduce grind later and undermine their own content.

* Wanting to play the game less isn't the sort of feedback DE should bother catering to. Feedback is like asking to change Liches from RNG to long term progression, not "it takes me too long to finish my Nightwave challenges".

Edited November 13, 2019 by Voltage

[Emolition]

7 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Unless the plat traded for is used instantly to trade with another player, it is removed from the player market. 

Hmmm how you figure so if i trade you 1k platinum from you and if I dont use it within 5min its gone? Say I save it to next week when I need them  they would magicly be gone?

[Fire2box]

9 minutes ago, Emolition said:

Hmmm how you figure so if i trade you 1k platinum from you and if I dont use it within 5min its gone? Say I save it to next week when I need them  they would magicly be gone?

it's gone from the player market until it's traded back into it. 

[SneakyErvin]

34 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

It's not character assassination, it's extrapolation from past history. Riven prices *have* shot up over time, even though their stats do not increase. That plat comes from somewhere. Furthermore, nothing about the "lich" system is benevolent to the playerbase and so there is no reason to assume benevolence on the potential changes.

Except that those that draw connections between this and rivens are very out of touch with the whole thing. A lich weapon will never ever have the impact of a riven and will never be of any real value for anything. At worst we will probably look at something like 50p (if even that) for a lich with a specific weapon, with a specific damage type, with a specific percentage incase they ever become available as plat trades.

So if you are going to compare it to anything within the riven system it is the lowest of the low disposition and nothing else. A Kuva weapon will barely even bring the bonus that a minimal dispo riven will for a weapon. And those rivens go for practically nothing, if they can even be sold at all. Those rivens are also far more rare than 1 weapon out of 13 with a specific roll.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

it's gone from the player market until it's traded back into it. 

No it isnt because it is still on a player, thus part of the player maket.

For it to be gone from the player market the person that has it in their possession either needs to quit the game or spend the plat on DE market items i.e cosmetics, boosts etc. The things that actually removes the plat from circulation.

Your idea would only apply if there was a third and fourth option, like an AH where you inject/bind your owned plat in order to use in future player-to-player trades aswell as the DE market demanding you to inject/bind plat for future market purchases. At that point those plat would be reserved for either or. But now aslong as it is in the hands of a player it is part of the market.

[Fire2box]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

No it isnt because it is still on a player, thus part of the player maket.

That's like saying jeff bezos billions of dollars is still part of the economy because a person has the money. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Fire2box said:

That's like saying jeff bezos billions of dollars is still part of the economy because a person has the money. 

They are. No matter if he has them in a bank or in cash at home they are still part of the economy because he can and will use them to buy food, luxory items and other things, including paying possible staff members. The money he is in possession of has a direct infuence of the worth of the national currency etc aswell, even if he just makes a massive cash fortress out of them for his kids/grandkids.

There is also no magical player market to trade it "back into" since there is no place but the players hands that hold the plat. So what you are really saying is that there is no player market at all since the plat is always in the hands of some player not trading at that single moment. The only moment in your mind when there are plat in the player market is at the exact moment when players put them into the trade window, but then are magically gone the moment we hit accept.

You should probably stay clear of economics aswell as player statistics.

[ixidron92]

hace 24 minutos, SneakyErvin dijo:

A lich weapon will never ever have the impact of a riven and will never be of any real value for anything.

Wanna bet?

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, ixidron92 said:

Wanna bet?

We are talking 60% elemental damage on weapons that are fairly mediocre to begin with compared to mods that further strengthens your already beloved weapon. Kuva Weapons are also less random. Far fewer items to obtain and a stat range that is only about a single predetermined stat.

So no, they will not be near the value of rivens that are already rare when it comes to just getting the right weapon within the right class and then also requiring the correct stats aswell as the correct stat roll range along with increasing costs for the 10 initial rolls. And not only that, you can grind Kuva weapons as you wish while rivens are locked to one chance per day.

I can see them possibly going for the price of a bottom dispo riven, but even that is a longshot.