Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.

[Graavarg]

I still think the best thing that came out of this is the suggestion that you should be able to despawn your lich without going into the kill-or-be-killed situation and so avoiding the lich ranking up.

Your lich spawns in, you don't want to try and kill it, you despawn it, end of story, mission goes on.

That would be an easy fix, though it doesn't quite sync 100% with the idea that your lich is your personal big bad enemy. That current mechanism works perfectly in solo play, where the lich actually is your personal enemy (as a lot of info from DE has stated that it is supposed to be). But some fellow Tennos can't combine the idea of everyone having a personal enemy with their own need to farm lich loot (btw, turning liches into another farming resource totally breaks the idea of a badass personal enemy) so allowing the lich to be removed from a missin would also remove a lot of unnecessary salt, tears and abuse. Of course some might be so far gone they would complain about that as well (missing out on a few murmurs that way) but really, who cares.

[Remedyheart]

39 minutes ago, mrpyro12345678 said:

What the heck?! Conversion and Killing is basically the same, the process literally doesn't change! How can Lich Conversion be done the best solo the best if lich killing in general is best done in team?!

Because you want the Lich to convert Thralls. The lich NPCs turn to active enemies and converts them into thralls.

One of two main reasons why players are claiming they do not need to stab early.

1) I don't want to. This could be because they not prepared yet which then we ask when are you prepared to do so? Which is very subjective in answer and eventually means you'll stab them anyways to start the guessing sequence. Better to do it now than later.

2) Thrall conversion. Where a lich uses active nearby LINE OF SIGHT enemies and converts them to thrall status to hand out more murmurs. Problem here is the rate at converting enemies into thralls is slow. Your lich is still hunting you and may choose certain abilities that make the wait longer. IE channeling abilities or teleporting abilities that take them out of LOS of other potential convertable targets. Not to mention if in a team your killing power goes up drastically thus leaves very little to convert if teammates are killing faster than the what the lich can convert.

With both points defeated and having factors that can greatly hinder this strategy, it comes down to logic. Which seems to be to stab them now rather than keeping them alive.

Also done best alone IE you're the only one who can keep track of the anger meter. Potentially you can try forming a team of like minded individuals but many cannot just sit around and allow waves of enemies to hammer them down while everyone is waiting on conversion to happen here. Doing so requires a huge amount of coordination. A Trinity or Oberon for infite healing perhaps a CC frame like Vauben to stop enemies cold so they don't kill the team and dps frames who cam handle the lich or tanky frames who can keep the lich occupied enough. This is too much of a hassle.

 

Pubs will want you to put aside that lich anyways so that they can kmstab their own.

[BludgePrime]

13 minutes ago, Graavarg said:

I still think the best thing that came out of this is the suggestion that you should be able to despawn your lich without going into the kill-or-be-killed situation and so avoiding the lich ranking up.

Your lich spawns in, you don't want to try and kill it, you despawn it, end of story, mission goes on.

That would be an easy fix, though it doesn't quite sync 100% with the idea that your lich is your personal big bad enemy. That current mechanism works perfectly in solo play, where the lich actually is your personal enemy (as a lot of info from DE has stated that it is supposed to be). But some fellow Tennos can't combine the idea of everyone having a personal enemy with their own need to farm lich loot (btw, turning liches into another farming resource totally breaks the idea of a badass personal enemy) so allowing the lich to be removed from a missin would also remove a lot of unnecessary salt, tears and abuse. Of course some might be so far gone they would complain about that as well (missing out on a few murmurs that way) but really, who cares.

But if you don't want do your lich you can simply avoid doing your lich missions or getting one in the first place. The liches were made to be kill or be killed kinda thing, a grineer response to tennos. When you're going in getting liches while unprepared/unmodded that's 100% on you and the other 3 people have to waste their time on your your lich which blocks theirs. I agree we should be able to despawn another persons lich if they're refusing to kill theirs but it should rank up.

Edited November 15, 2019 by BludgePrime

[zoffmode]

6 hours ago, Graavarg said:

No. It's not a team, it's a random squad. What is selfish is trying to force other players to do what you want.

You can make your own team in team chat, and only chose players that agree to your rules. But trying to impose your own rules on other players in random missions is... well... toxic behaviour. According to me at least.

I like to think that if you're matching up in public you're supposed to make an honest effort to be cooperative. I don't know what's up with people lately who make the argument for opposite. I heard that even in ranked PvP games where a guy runs off to troll and throw a game on purpose then goes "you can't force your own rules on me". That's a toxic behavior in itself that breeds further toxic behavior from the rest of the team cause they get tired of all this crap.

Like I said, if something you do always tends to bring up a certain reaction... Maybe it's because of something you keep doing. You're better off going to play solo yourself instead of knowingly keeping up your own toxic behavior out of spite and telling people off.

[Wolfdoggie]

Just kill it or don't make one.

Fail = more maps to do and more murmurs. More maps = more potential capture missions = faster to clear Lich.

If already Lv.5 why are you skipping it, test requiems. :v

[Aldain]

I've been reading through this hot mess and I'll just say the same damn thing I always do.

If players didn't die and cause the Lich to level up from mercying them nobody would be adverse to killing their Lich.

It is that easy people, mass suggest that, convince DE that that is the problem, if I'm wrong you can ban me but that is the simple easy fix to this entire mess, not incentives, not punishments, just ONE SMALL CHANGE.

[Wolfdoggie]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I've been reading through this hot mess and I'll just say the same damn thing I always do.

If players didn't die and cause the Lich to level up from mercying them nobody would be adverse to killing their Lich.

It is that easy people, mass suggest that, convince DE that that is the problem, if I'm wrong you can ban me but that is the simple easy fix to this entire mess, not incentives, not punishments, just ONE SMALL CHANGE.

Level it up.

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, zoffmode said:

I like to think that if you're matching up in public you're supposed to make an honest effort to be cooperative. I don't know what's up with people lately who make the argument for opposite.

It's because both you and the other side use the word "cooperate" to mean "do what I want", only each side wants different mutually exclusive things. Oh, wait, no, what am I saying, the other side doesn't care if you stab your lich or not. I guess it's just you.

1 hour ago, zoffmode said:

Like I said, if something you do always tends to bring up a certain reaction... Maybe it's because of something you keep doing.

That's literally the logic of an abuser. "If you disobey me and I beat you as a result, clearly it's your fault for not obeying."

27 minutes ago, Wolfdoggie said:

Level it up.

Why? What benefit does that bring?

Edited November 15, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Wolfdoggie]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

It's because both you and the other side use the word "cooperate" to mean "do what I want", only each side wants different mutually exclusive things.

 

Why? What benefit does that bring?

Opens more maps that may or may not be capture missions so you can skip all the crap ones.

[Zeclem]

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Why? What benefit does that bring?

it gives a good debuff to weak tenno that dont even know the system and complain about it. 

[Aldain]

Just now, Zeclem said:

it gives a good debuff to weak tenno that dont even know the system and complain about it. 

So the only benefit is that you enjoy people suffering.

Wow such a wonderful argument, you've convinced me skippy /s

[Zeclem]

Just now, Aldain said:

So the only benefit is that you enjoy people suffering.

Wow such a wonderful argument, you've convinced me skippy /s

yeah i do enjoy people who dont have a single clue about the system they are whining about suffer. 

[IgnisWings]

Yeah, it's very tiring to try to unlock the murmurs when you got a MR26 boomer over your shoulder. Getting killed by your Lich makes them stronger with no upside, so it's not as simple as repeating until you get it right. "Oh but if you cannot take care of your Lich don't spawn it-" F.O.H.

[Cubewano]

guess the nemesis system is achieving it's namesake after all, just not the way it was intended to

[Orblit]

10 minutes ago, IgnisWings said:

Getting killed by your Lich makes them stronger with no upside

...x10 murmur progression...

Honestly, ever since they made the Lich give tons of murmur progress...I've just seen players that refuse to even try as toxic if they really do block other Lich spawns

Edited November 15, 2019 by Orblit

[SordidDreams]

21 minutes ago, Orblit said:

...x10 murmur progression...
 

Honestly, ever since they made the Lich give tons of murmur progress...I've just seen players that refuse to even try as toxic if they really do block other Lich spawns

TIL 10 murmurs is "tons". Yeah, it gives 10 murmurs. And also makes future lich missions much harder. As in, going from level 50 to level 100 increases enemy effective health by a factor of twelve. Yeah, sure, get ten murmurs... at the cost of making future misisons take three, five, ten times longer to do. Seems totally worth it when you put it like that!

[Currilicious]

Oh just ignore those knuckleheads. I am totally on the same page as you on entitled d-bags but it's really not worthwhile spoiling your game session over them.

Maybe I've been in too many flights with crying children, I tend to see these people as infants throwing snotty tantrums.

[zoffmode]

35 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

It's because both you and the other side use the word "cooperate" to mean "do what I want", only each side wants different mutually exclusive things. Oh, wait, no, what am I saying, the other side doesn't care if you stab your lich or not. I guess it's just you.

That's literally the logic of an abuser. "If you disobey me and I beat you as a result, clearly it's your fault for not obeying."

Finally you're learning how society, law and civilization as a whole functions. If someone keeps pissing everyone off nonstop, he tends to get negative feedback be it verbal abuse or being locked up in prison. Yes, that's going a little far when talking about a video game... And yes, it shouldn't happen in a perfect world. But it will keep happening. That's just the reality of society. What society doesn't want gets repressed regardless of it being right or wrong.

If OP is complaining that he keeps getting verbal abuse, that would imply that majority of playerbase (or at least people he gets to play with) wants to the group to play a certain way. Then, logic dictates, the person who wants to deviate from that should find his own group or play solo instead of asking others to do so. Until DE fixes the system of course.

 

Now, in regards to morality. One person trying to impose his own views on a group of people he can choose to leave at any time is worse than a group asking a person to behave a certain way so things function smoothly all around. But morality can be debated for ages and I'm not in mood for philosophical conversations. There's different forums for that.

 

Btw, it was pretty funny to learn that you've only ever done one Lich and not doing any more. I guess you're one of those that likes to talk about stuff he doesn't have much experience in.

[Aldain]

Just now, zoffmode said:

Finally you're learning how society, law and civilization as a whole functions. If someone keeps pissing everyone off nonstop, he tends to get negative feedback be it verbal abuse or being locked up in prison. Yes, that's going a little far when talking about a video game... And yes, it shouldn't happen in a perfect world. But it will keep happening. That's just the reality of society. What society doesn't want gets repressed regardless of it being right or wrong.

That is complete BS and you know it.

Yes, society does suck bricks, but just going "that's the way it is" just enables the abuse and abusers under a false justification from mob rule.

In this instance specifically, it isn't a society that decides what is right, it is DE and their TOS, and claiming that a mob of players overrules the TOS or decides its interpretation is wrong.

[SordidDreams]

14 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Finally you're learning how society, law and civilization as a whole functions. If someone keeps pissing everyone off nonstop, he tends to get negative feedback be it verbal abuse or being locked up in prison. Yes, that's going a little far when talking about a video game... And yes, it shouldn't happen in a perfect world. But it will keep happening. That's just the reality of society. What society doesn't want gets repressed regardless of it being right or wrong.

Well at least you're not trying to hypocritically backpedal, no, you stand proud and own your abusiveness. Credit where credit is due, I guess. Not that that justifies it in any way, of course, but hey, can't have everything.

14 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

person who wants to deviate from that should find his own group or play solo instead of asking others to do so

You're still not getting it. You and people like you, who want others to stab their liches, are the ones asking others to do things. People who don't stab their liches don't give a damn if you stab yours or not, they leave you alone. Don't try to set up some kind of false equivalency here. One group is being left alone and harassing the other, while the other is doing nothing and being harassed. You're part of the former.

14 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

One person trying to impose his own views on a group of people he can choose to leave at any time is worse than a group asking a person to behave a certain way so things function smoothly all around.

We've been through that, I think. Refer back to my earlier post about the relative severity of harm. By your logic, three people asking one person to cut their own leg off are totally justified and the one person is in the wrong for refusing. Again the logic of an abuser, this time making an appeal to mob rule, as if simple weight of numbers determines what is right and wrong (a very short-sighted approach, I should add, since there's no guarantee you won't find yourself in a minority next time).

14 minutes ago, zoffmode said:

Btw, it was pretty funny to learn that you've only ever done one Lich and not doing any more. I guess you're one of those that likes to talk about stuff he doesn't have much experience in.

What, you mean to tell me it took you more than one to figure out how this system works? Lol.

Edited November 15, 2019 by SordidDreams

[BludgePrime]

25 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

TIL 10 murmurs is "tons". Yeah, it gives 10 murmurs. And also makes future lich missions much harder. As in, going from level 50 to level 100 increases enemy effective health by a factor of twelve. Yeah, sure, get ten murmurs... at the cost of making future misisons take three, five, ten times longer to do. Seems totally worth it when you put it like that!

Seems like lich missions are too difficult for you. You should leave them be until you're ready to play as the game was intended with natural progression of trying to kill your lich instead of making griefing 3 other people in your group.

 

btw if you've done only 1 lich and everyone was telling you to kill your lich instead of leaving it be, then take the hint already.

[MirageKnight]

The sheer level of narrow-minded, self-righteous hate and toxicity and lack of empathy present in this thread is appalling.

Where's a moderator when you really need one?

1 hour ago, BludgePrime said:

btw if you've done only 1 lich and everyone was telling you to kill your lich instead of leaving it be, then take the hint already.

Which is to not give in to pressure from selfish jerks and bullies but instead take screenshots of the chat, leave the mission, and report any and all players that were harassing you for abusive behavior so they can be properly punished. Don't forget to attach those screenshots!

That's probably not the answer you're thinking of and frankly I don't care. People with attitudes like yours make me sick and you all have no business being in a game that's focused on player cooperation.

Edited November 15, 2019 by MirageKnight

[Flex238]

If you don't want to kill your Lich and keep it's level low, then just do the missions solo. It's common courtesy in public missions to kill your Lich so that other people can have a chance of their Lich spawning also. No one is bullying, people are just sick and tired of selfish players ruining the group experience for everyone else!

Edited November 15, 2019 by Flex238

[White_Matter]

1 hour ago, SordidDreams said:

 

We've been through that, I think. Refer back to my earlier post about the relative severity of harm. By your logic, three people asking one person to cut their own leg off are totally justified and the one person is in the wrong for refusing.

False equivalence.

Confronting the Lich is the smarter thing to do(allows you to get more murmur), and more beneficial for teamplay. 

Cutting your leg isn't(unless it has gangrene or bitten by a zombie).

You are trying to equate common sense to the extreme.

[Raqiya]

The great Warframe Civil-war.