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Ash: His current problems and the solutions to fix them


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On 2020-05-13 at 11:18 PM, xXBlackSparrow said:

-snip-

Ladies and gentlemen your attention please.

This is one of the best and underrated comments on here and not because he agrees with me.

I want you all to pay attention (look at the bottom of page 6). This is a so called "noob" that hasn't played the game for long and did his/her research and yet this person was able to identify the issues Ash has with his blade storm but ppl that has been playing wf for years (and probably cuz ppl out for not being a high mr as them or mocking ppl over kill count) can`t see the issues or refuse to see it. I have talked to noobs and ppl that haven`t played Ash in-game and I have explained Ash`s old bs vs the current bs with all the pros and cons and when I ask them "which one sounds better?" they all said old bs.

Seriously thank you for coming on here saying this, we need more ppl to wake up (this is like the bloody matrix red pill, blue pill lol)

Idm if Ash had to work to use bs that's why I suggested the synergy with his 1 & 4 you might not have to work to use bs but you have to work in building up his damage. I also like the other two suggestions you said for his bs, I have been thinking that it could function like equinox`s 4 and as for ember 4 it this is going to be added to Ash it would not have to require los.

Even through you agree with the topic, I`m not sure if you agree with my revisit to Ash so I ask;

What do you think of my revisit to Ash?

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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On 2020-05-12 at 2:44 PM, Dano216 said:

I think you have some great ideas that would help bring Ash more relevant for the current meta and game modes. 

Two things I want to point out:

1. His abilities should be reworked to function well in a team environment which you identified and have addressed

2. He's a ninja, and to me, being a ninja is all about precision and speed. Again, you have addressed these in your ideas, specifically in regards to allowing his 1 to be more precise, his 3 being more versatile, and his 4 activating faster. 

The one thing I want to add is that it seems Ash more than most wants increased strength, efficiency, duration, and range. In his current state his strength needs to be at least 150% (I think) to enable full armor stripping, the duration of his 2 is very low "out of the box" so he needs some attention there, most of his abilities really want range, and his base energy is low, so one really needs to either add (primed) flow or efficiency because his kit encourages you to use his abilities a lot. In my experience it is really tough to build a well rounded version of him that allows all abilities to be used frequently without the trade offs being a little frustrating. 

My suggestions, in addition to what the OP said:

1. higher base energy

2. his augment for his 1 should be part of the ability by default

3. increase duration of his 2 and/or allow him to cast it on allies and defense objectives (hold for self, tap to cast - like Titania's 1)

 

Even through I don`t have an issue with modding him, I understand what ppl are saying If you remember my 2nd ability idea you have the option to add minus duration for more range making ss a better cc ability if I`m not mistaken with all range mods the range can reach over 25m plus the negative duration won`t affect the stun length which is a plus also your just making Ash like every other frame with no invisibility.

As for you suggestions, I don`t mind point 1 and 3 but I don`t think his 1st augment should be apart of his 1 coz it would be too similar to Nyx`s 2nd and integrating it to my idea would make the ability to op to me it`s better for it to stay as an augment just to give player and option on how the ability works. If I were to improve the aug I would make it strip enemies defences so it works for all factions. 

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On 2020-05-13 at 6:22 AM, Kageryuzen said:

I agree with everything written here as Ash rework.

I`m glade you agree but I have to correct you like I do everyone else, DE is to blame by not being consistent but ppl show know the difference by now. 

My idea for Ash is not a rework its a REVISIT, here is the difference between the two. PLEASE READ.

Also I appreciate you signing it.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Fellow Ash Main here:

I agree on both Shuriken and Smoke Screen, good changes.

Teleport:

"Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned."

I would much rather be able to teleport to wherever my crosshair is pointing. There is no good reason for Ash's Teleport to limited like this. From what I've heard it isn't limited to enemies/objects in Conclave. Why isn't that the case everywhere?

Bladestorm

"Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you. "

I would much rather this be reversed, tapping to enter animations would be too easy to do by mistake and lose however much time to being stuck in the animation. Honestly, I'd rather the ability to enter BS animations be removed from the game entirely so I can teleport freely.

"When activating the ability, it will start instantly."

Agreed, the biggest limiter on Ash is how slow BS starts

"If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies."

This would unnecessary if it was Hold to enter yourself into Ash's BS animations

"Enemies that are red can be killed by players."

I assume you mean can't here? If so this would lead to a lot of people hating Ash as much as a Limbo who uses their 1 too much. If not thats how it already works.

"There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the 20m radius of the enemy he`s aiming at."

Agreed, never understand why there was a hard limit when Mesa can shoot infinitely

"On deactivation or when blade storm ends whole in the animation, Ash teleports back to the position where he activated it."

I feel like this would be disorienting, atleast for me.

"An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs."

Theres already an indicator of how many marks you have, not sure what this would accomplish.

"Sliding before activating will increase the animation and clones` attack speed by 20%."

NGL I feel like that would just look awkward animation wise. Ash does his "Point fingers at head" animation when he activates his 4.

Edited by Pandabarrel
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I don't really agree on his 1. The augment makes it infinitely better, sure, but the ability is by no means bad (if anything, the augment has become less relevant due to armor being stomped into the ground). It costs very little, is spammable, ignores walls, tracks very well, and it's damage is nothing to spit at because of the bleed procs, which Ash's passive only bolsters.

I'll admit, I don't really use Smoke. I find Ash doesn't have too many energy problems when I have Energy Siphon, Flow, and 75% efficiency on (unless I'm spamming the hell out of Shuriken), so I don't use it for the cheaper 4. I don't use it for survivability either, because I've played with much more fragile frames than 1605 health and 512 armor (all 3 Umbral mods on Ash is big brain).

There are a few problems I have with Ash's 3, but I don't think the main functionality needs to be changed. 1. Fatal Teleport doesn't automatically finisher everything, like drones and ospreys, so Index can be sort of a pain with him; 2. Without Fatal Teleport, Ash doesn't open up some things for finishers even if they'd normally be finishered with Fatal Teleport; 3. You can't just teleport anywhere you like, which makes me very sad because you can actually do that in the Conclave (yes, I played the Conclave, yes, I did it for the skins, no, it was not worth it).

I've personally never had problems with his 4. A mark is placed every time your reticle moves over an enemy, so just waving it over a group rapidly will mark them all, so it's actually somewhat quick to mark enemies (I can mark a small army in less than a second, but I play on PC so it may be different on console). That being said, enemies who are marked should die a little quicker, so instead of just summoning 3 clones to take out everything, summon 1 clone for every enemy marked, and the clones will just disappear when they finish with their assigned target (either on death or when that enemy's marks are exhausted) instead of seeking out a new target. It wouldn't be unbalanced, there'd be no damage increase, it'd just mean marking a massive group won't make the entire thing take a full minute, and at that point you might as well slaughter them yourself.

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18 hours ago, Pandabarrel said:

-snip-

Teleport

If you read more of it I also mentioned that he can teleport anywhere he is aiming at.

BS

How I see it, it`s more convenient to send clones to kill so Ash can be doing something else so if ppl really want to send clone they just have to remember to hold to do so plus, if for some reason ppl forget they can just press 4 again to jump out of it so you are not stuck in the animation. The bs animation is what makes Ash`s 4th unique from other 4th abilities so this is something I want to stay plus my ideas give you a choice to join bs or not so it doesn`t need to be removed.

It`s simple if you high up on a ledge when you activate bs, when it`s done you teleport back to the ledge, this is good the stealth play.

Currently the indicator shows how many marks enemies have which doesn`t tell you how many enemies are affected or you would have to work it out which you don`t have time to do in fast past gameplay. but with my idea it will show how many enemies are going to be killed by bs and if you decide to send clones out the indicator will let you know when you can use it again, will show how many enemies are affected and it`s simple you understand.

There are some things I didn't reply to coz I have explained it before to other ppl. if you really want to know you just have to find it.

16 hours ago, Ebonslayer said:

-snip-

What do you think of my revisit to Ash?

 

`

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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1 hour ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

If you read more of it I also mentioned that he can teleport anywhere he is aiming at.

How I see it, it`s more convenient to send clones to kill so Ash can be doing something else so if ppl really want to send clone they just have to remember to hold to do so plus, if for some reason ppl forget they can just press 4 again to jump out of it so you are not stuck in the animation. The bs animation is what makes Ash`s 4th unique from other 4th abilities so this is something I want to stay plus my ideas give you a choice to join bs or not so it doesn`t need to be removed.

It`s simple if you high up on a ledge when you activate bs, when it`s done you teleport back to the ledge, this is good the stealth play.

Currently the indicator shows how many marks enemies have which doesn`t tell you how many enemies are affected or you would have to work it out which you don`t have time to do in fast past gameplay. but with my idea it will show how many enemies are going to be killed by bs and if you decide to send clones out the indicator will let you know when you can use it again, will show how many enemies are affected and it`s simple you understand.

Then why mention "It can also teleport to anything that can be scanned"? If you can tp to your cursor than targeting objects is not only unnecessary but disruptive. You could try to teleport to a specific spot but the game thinks your aiming at an object so you go to that instead? No thanks.

We're going to have to disagree on clones vs personally going into BS animations, I personally think uniqueness should not engender inconvenience. Personally, the only changes I would make to Bladestorm would be: all 3 marks appear instantly as you mouse over an enemy (or remove the 3 marks, make the first mark do more dmg), and to have, if not a clone for every target, more than 2 clones.

I would still rather not have Bladestorm teleport you to cast location because it disrupts movement. What if you cast it over a pit? I often use it when I'm on the move and just need a few enemies taken out. This would, IMO, go against Warframe's movement system.

I feel like that kind of Indicator would be hard to code, but I'm not a game dev. Honestly if you play Ash enough you'll have a sense of when your Bladestorm is going to end.

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5 hours ago, Pandabarrel said:

Then why mention "It can also teleport to anything that can be scanned"? If you can tp to your cursor than targeting objects is not only unnecessary but disruptive. You could try to teleport to a specific spot but the game thinks your aiming at an object so you go to that instead? No thanks.

We're going to have to disagree on clones vs personally going into BS animations, I personally think uniqueness should not engender inconvenience. Personally, the only changes I would make to Bladestorm would be: all 3 marks appear instantly as you mouse over an enemy (or remove the 3 marks, make the first mark do more dmg), and to have, if not a clone for every target, more than 2 clones.

I would still rather not have Bladestorm teleport you to cast location because it disrupts movement. What if you cast it over a pit? I often use it when I'm on the move and just need a few enemies taken out. This would, IMO, go against Warframe's movement system.

I feel like that kind of Indicator would be hard to code, but I'm not a game dev. Honestly if you play Ash enough you'll have a sense of when your Bladestorm is going to end.

Agreed wholeheartedly. But what would you personally think about them expanding the radius of bs so it could mark 3 enemies in your fov at once. As well as marks are added to targets in an over time effect

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Am 15.5.2020 um 14:51 schrieb (PS4)Vexx757:

Vexx-info:

IMPORTANT

I have made a petition for DE to give Ash a revisit and to integrate my ideas to Ash. If you like my idea please support and share my petition so we can show DE how serious we are to giving Ash the revisit her deserves.

http://chng.it/TVJnXgZC

Are you sure that it's a good idea to "force" DE to give him now a revisit? Not that Ash get a revisit like nyx, because no one of the DE was even interested in giving something useful/ funny/ unique. It will be probably better if DE get just remembered that Ash needs "a few" changes. Just give DE time and maybe (and hopefully) they will make Ash the Ninja he always should have been. (or at least as funny like Gauss, Nidus, Harrow and Saryn)
 

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vexx-info:

Here is something that I want to share with you guy, people say Ash`s bs is good and he can be used in a team but never show any evidence of this. Today I’m about to show you why people don`t show footage of Ash in a team and an example of a youtuber that says one thing but the footage shows something else.

(it`s quite lengthy but trust me it`s worth the read)

 

https://youtu.be/TJEO2VIxjuM?t=420

Go to these time points in the video. I know I`m starting in the mid of the video but it will make sense as you read on. This is him testing bs in the simulacrum.

 

7:00- 7:15: You notice how excited he get that he killed them all? Yh but you`re by yourself killing.

 

Here he is using bs in public.

2:44 – 2:55: It does matter when the point is to kill them but you can coz allies killed them off.

2:55- 3:04: What you saying doesn`t match what we are seeing. (pay attention to what he says vs what he`s showing)

4:18: He say he only targeted 2 enemies but the footage shows he marked more than that. Do I need to say why?

4:37: He`s on pc look how fast he`s moving his mouse all that for 1 enemy.

5:29- 5:36: Yes, it sounds good... ON PAPER, but in a co-op game in public in practise not so much

 

Ladies and gentlemen this is why ppl don`t show footage of Ash in a team, because that footage will prove the issues that Ash has. Peoples reviews and showings of Ash`s bs is in the simulacrum BY THEMSELFS.

 

Here is a convo from someone in the comment section on youtube that I copied and pasted from. This person is able to see the issues Ash has. Very good analysis.

Spoiler

the marking mechanic is fun for awhile, but after playing for like 5 days you'll learn that its such an obnoxious mechanic especially running high level missions with never ending enemies, yeah good luck marking all of them OR trying to pick your targets, the marking mechanic becomes sloppy and unreliable. You waste so much time on marking enemies while your squad mates just farts and kill all the enemies around you. You cant mark enemies behind walls or hidden places yet you know they are there because your radar shows it in red dots, its so annoying. Play style now changes to just quickly swiping your mouse left and right to efficiently mark as many enemies as you can with 3 marks per enemy... try playing like that for 20 mins. so fun.

 

 At the end of the day you start thinking, why should i use BS when you have other BETTER means to dispatch groups of enemies? like just using your Zarr, aim and shoot. done. lol Zarr even have a secondary function that shoots like a shot gun, so this rifle is able to dish out a good AoE damage AND close quarter killing, a more faster and efficient weapon than an Ultimate...

 

Ash is the only Warframe in the game that has a two step activation Ultimate. Every other Warframe's Ultimate are instant. Banshee, Saryn, Mag, Frost, Loki, Mesa etc doesnt matter, the Ultimate is done in a fast manner, no other Warframe needs to "aim" or "mark" their targets. Imagine Ember's WoF needs to mark her targets first THEN the fires will burn em. or Frost, Saryn or Mag needs to mark their targets in order to freeze, poison or crush them. hahaha Loki's Irradiated Disarm, Mark your targets first THEN disarm them... yeah in a fast paced game like Warframe it just doesnt work. (I SAY THIS ALL THE BLOODY TIME)

 The simple solution to BS is just reverting it back to the old mechanic but increase the energy use for BS in increments so that BS cant be spammed (but used as a well placed calculated attack) and allies are able to kill Ash's marked enemies (and perhaps gain some bonus buff from it). Thats it. problem solved. Yet... we got THIS rework (nerf). similar to the sentinel vacuum scenario, 1 simple way to solve a problem but DE gave us the most convoluted way imaginable as their solution. So no, Bladestorm is not a good change at all. Its the worst Warframe rework to date.

 

Its funny how "ooh ASH is too OP please nerf him DE" and guess what? DE listened, yet you have this Warframe that is able to HEAL AND GIVE ENERGY to ALL WARFRAMES and even after several reworks, Trinity is still a powerful frame because inherently, she is the master of 2 of the most important mechanics in the game that is HP and ENERGY....sure thats not OP. whats so wrong about Ash killing 17 enemies?

26

 

 

TDefton`s Reply;

 

I agree with you to an extent. I fee that it is the worst rework in comparison to all of the others. They could have done a much better job, but I feel that the energy/damage isn't that bad, you just have to gave the right build. 

But yes, they could have done a much better job 😕

 

I don`t understand, you said you liked this, if that’s the case why are you saying now that DE could have done better? Why didn’t you say this in the video?

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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16 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Agreed wholeheartedly. But what would you personally think about them expanding the radius of bs so it could mark 3 enemies in your fov at once. As well as marks are added to targets in an over time effect

Expanding the radius could be a nice QOL change. I'm not sure what you mean by the second bit, is it as you mouse over a target, all 3 marks apply over time? I don't see a reason it shouldn't be instant honestly, since you're refunded for unused marks.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

vexx-info:

Here is something that I want to share with you guy, people say Ash`s bs is good and he can be used in a team but never show any evidence of this. Today I’m about to show you why people don`t show footage of Ash in a team and an example of a youtuber that says one thing but the footage shows something else.

(it`s quite lengthy but trust me it`s worth the read)

 

https://youtu.be/TJEO2VIxjuM?t=420

Go to these time points in the video. I know I`m starting in the mid of the video but it will make sense as you read on. This is him testing bs in the simulacrum.

 

7:00- 7:15: You notice how excited he get that he killed them all? Yh but you`re by yourself killing.

 

Here he is using bs in public.

2:44 – 2:55: It does matter when the point is to kill them but you can coz allies killed them off.

2:55- 3:04: What you saying doesn`t match what we are seeing. (pay attention to what he says vs what he`s showing)

4:18: He say he only targeted 2 enemies but the footage shows he marked more than that. Do I need to say why?

4:37: He`s on pc look how fast he`s moving his mouse all that for 1 enemy.

5:29- 5:36: Yes, it sounds good... ON PAPER, but in a co-op game in public in practise not so much

 

Ladies and gentlemen this is why ppl don`t show footage of Ash in a team, because that footage will prove the issues that Ash has. Peoples reviews and showings of Ash`s bs is in the simulacrum BY THEMSELFS.

 

Here is a convo from someone in the comment section on youtube that I copied and pasted from. This person is able to see the issues Ash has. Very good analysis.

  Reveal hidden contents

the marking mechanic is fun for awhile, but after playing for like 5 days you'll learn that its such an obnoxious mechanic especially running high level missions with never ending enemies, yeah good luck marking all of them OR trying to pick your targets, the marking mechanic becomes sloppy and unreliable. You waste so much time on marking enemies while your squad mates just farts and kill all the enemies around you. You cant mark enemies behind walls or hidden places yet you know they are there because your radar shows it in red dots, its so annoying. Play style now changes to just quickly swiping your mouse left and right to efficiently mark as many enemies as you can with 3 marks per enemy... try playing like that for 20 mins. so fun.

 

 At the end of the day you start thinking, why should i use BS when you have other BETTER means to dispatch groups of enemies? like just using your Zarr, aim and shoot. done. lol Zarr even have a secondary function that shoots like a shot gun, so this rifle is able to dish out a good AoE damage AND close quarter killing, a more faster and efficient weapon than an Ultimate...

 

Ash is the only Warframe in the game that has a two step activation Ultimate. Every other Warframe's Ultimate are instant. Banshee, Saryn, Mag, Frost, Loki, Mesa etc doesnt matter, the Ultimate is done in a fast manner, no other Warframe needs to "aim" or "mark" their targets. Imagine Ember's WoF needs to mark her targets first THEN the fires will burn em. or Frost, Saryn or Mag needs to mark their targets in order to freeze, poison or crush them. hahaha Loki's Irradiated Disarm, Mark your targets first THEN disarm them... yeah in a fast paced game like Warframe it just doesnt work. (I SAY THIS ALL THE BLOODY TIME)

 The simple solution to BS is just reverting it back to the old mechanic but increase the energy use for BS in increments so that BS cant be spammed (but used as a well placed calculated attack) and allies are able to kill Ash's marked enemies (and perhaps gain some bonus buff from it). Thats it. problem solved. Yet... we got THIS rework (nerf). similar to the sentinel vacuum scenario, 1 simple way to solve a problem but DE gave us the most convoluted way imaginable as their solution. So no, Bladestorm is not a good change at all. Its the worst Warframe rework to date.

 

Its funny how "ooh ASH is too OP please nerf him DE" and guess what? DE listened, yet you have this Warframe that is able to HEAL AND GIVE ENERGY to ALL WARFRAMES and even after several reworks, Trinity is still a powerful frame because inherently, she is the master of 2 of the most important mechanics in the game that is HP and ENERGY....sure thats not OP. whats so wrong about Ash killing 17 enemies?

26

 

 

TDefton`s Reply;

 

I agree with you to an extent. I fee that it is the worst rework in comparison to all of the others. They could have done a much better job, but I feel that the energy/damage isn't that bad, you just have to gave the right build. 

But yes, they could have done a much better job 😕

 

I don`t understand, you said you liked this, if that’s the case why are you saying now that DE could have done better? Why didn’t you say this in the video?

 

Sigh give me 3 days and name a game mode or team compComp

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Rework or Revisit yes it's a difference but I still think revisit is still something weak in comparison with how much his abilities needs to be changed/updated/buffed.English is not my native language.

About group use ... When I fall for Ash I did my research on him,I browsed lots of topics and watched lots of youtube videos about him how to use what weapons to use etc...

Maybe but really maybe if there's around 2-3 vids with him in a team,even in these vids he is in a separate room and teammates come just to collect the loot.(DO not ask which ones it's been sometime since I watched)

NOW if you have friends with who you want to play and keep up because of friendly competivity then you see when you will become useful... ... when the rest of the team start to die constantly because of high level NPCs then your time of shine comes which quickly becomes other players time of suffering(IN a nutshell).

What else remains?GO solo...hmmm..okaay the game is kind to solo players too and Ash is one of the best warframes for solo play(I am not sure about npcs spawning while I am in stealth) in my opinion then here comes the but...

I was told to go and play other frames ... but why? If I like to play Ash and his style and his kit but I am so far behind when it comes to play as a team with my friends and sometimes I am a burden...

In the end I tried and I have a Nidus for example 2 button immortality extrem team use zero drawbacks okaaay,go Rhino...xxxxxxxx amount of armor with a well timed armor stack up then hack and slash while the enemy is floated...and team use damage increase buff...and we can go on

I still come back to Ash and play him while we gather with friends but I no longer play much mainly because of his drawbacks,I use him more for farming,soloing and for fun for serious doings other frames which I have to mention I do not like.

 

 

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On 2020-05-23 at 3:17 PM, Kageryuzen said:

-snip-

Revisits are not weak you said it yourself, you like my ideas for Ash and that was a revisit plus to me Oberon and Nezha had the most successful revisits it just depends on the person`s opinion and what frame to them needs a rework, revisit or QOL`s.

One thing I have noticed is that when I see a Ash in a team most of the times they use him for his 2 which is a damn shame.

THANK YOU I hate when ppl say "just play another frame" no dummy I play Ash coz I like ninjas, his looks sick, I like the concept of his abilities and importantly he is fun, that`s the dumbest comment ever.

Even through Ash is good for solo and most ppl play solo as long as DE calls this game a "co-op" game, I`m still going to talk about how inefficient he is in a team.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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I agree with him needing a rework, but in typical forums fashion let me make my own suggestions.

1: scaling base damage, using the grendel/vauban enemy level scaling mechanic. New synergy with smoke screen.

2: smoke screens duration can now be restored by killing enemies affected by bleeds. Up to the limit of 30s duration total. This allows people without arcane trickery to stay invisible with ash for longer.

3........

4: blade storm can now self trigger on individual enemies while marking. A threshold is used, which is affected by number of marks. A target with one mark will automatically get a clone to attack it if it falls below 25% hp. A target with 3 marks will see the highest mark trigger when the target falls below 75% hp. In this way even with the current marking radius the ability behaves more dynamically. Teammates also benefit this chance as they can now trigger blade storm clones simply by attacking the enemies you mark as you mark them.

 

Now.. i prefer my bladestorm chances. It doesnt remove current functionality and simply increases synergy with teammates. It also allows bladestorm to function ad a extension of normal gameplay rather than a replacement for it. Bladestorm no longer have to fight allies is a huge benefit imo.

 

I am intrigued by your other ability changes however.

Edited by (PS4)ForNoPurpose
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Hi Vexx757, here's my thoughts on your ideas below: 

Shuriken) Having 2 Shurikens hitting same target for 2x slash damage (1000 slash dmg total) sound solid and preventing 2nd Shuriken from being wasted. I like it especially you have Ash becoming energy efficient when doing Shuriken combo in close range unless you up shuriken flight speed or increase combo window. Though having melee critical damage melee serving as critical chance and multiplier for Shuriken feel weird (not in bad way, mind you) since it's a throwing weapon without melee attack (Hikou vs Glaive). Why not have Shuriken critical damage based on secondary critical damage mods? Or have hold down button to form a giant shuriken dealing 1000 slash damage?

Smoke Screen) Definitely agreed with stun duration and range, always felt current one too short to be useful and weird when you can't make smoke bigger. Will it hide defense objective (Defense mode)? That would be funny if enemies come toward where Tenno crypod at, only to "Eh, it's gone. Let's just go home before Tenno (who for some reasons, still sticking around some smoke) kill us all". Question (I probably misread): How did you get 12 secs on part on using Smoke Screen to block doorways? Your post stated cast stun lasting 4 secs and 6 secs if enemies enter smoke while mentioning stun duration not affected by duration mod.

Teleport) "Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is halved" So like mini-game involving operator and Balla but with less restrictions on where to teleport to?I like it, but what about Fatal Teleport against flying enemies (Raptors, Eximus Attack Drones, flying Index enemies)? I'm with you on making Teleport usable on object/target located other side of window. I mean, Ash isn't Kool-Aid Man who need to go through (or around) wall when his 3rd skill is literally called Teleport not Super High Speed Movement. Big difference there like Halo Slipspace vs Star Wars Hyperspace, Shushin vs Hiraishin (Naruto), Kool-Aid Man busting through wall vs etc. 

Your idea of having Ash, after teleporting to air, do melee attacks to stay in air remind me of air combo mechanism in old video game called Too Human.

Bladestorm) Not going to touch this one. To be honest, I don't have positive thing to say about Bladestorm (before change and current). But you do explain well what's wrong with current Bladestorm. 

 

Edited by Skeleton.with.Root.Beer
Forgot to include Fatal Teleport
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On 2020-05-26 at 7:30 PM, Skeleton.with.Root.Beer said:
Spoiler

Shuriken) Having 2 Shurikens hitting same target for 2x slash damage (1000 slash dmg total) sound solid and preventing 2nd Shuriken from being wasted. I like it especially you have Ash becoming energy efficient when doing Shuriken combo in close range unless you up shuriken flight speed or increase combo window. Though having melee critical damage melee serving as critical chance and multiplier for Shuriken feel weird (not in bad way, mind you) since it's a throwing weapon without melee attack (Hikou vs Glaive). Why not have Shuriken critical damage based on secondary critical damage mods? Or have hold down button to form a giant shuriken dealing 1000 slash damage?

Smoke Screen) Definitely agreed with stun duration and range, always felt current one too short to be useful and weird when you can't make smoke bigger. Will it hide defense objective (Defense mode)? That would be funny if enemies come toward where Tenno crypod at, only to "Eh, it's gone. Let's just go home before Tenno (who for some reasons, still sticking around some smoke) kill us all". Question (I probably misread): How did you get 12 secs on part on using Smoke Screen to block doorways? Your post stated cast stun lasting 4 secs and 6 secs if enemies enter smoke while mentioning stun duration not affected by duration mod.

Teleport) "Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is halved" So like mini-game involving operator and Balla but with less restrictions on where to teleport to?I like it, but what about Fatal Teleport against flying enemies (Raptors, Eximus Attack Drones, flying Index enemies)? I'm with you on making Teleport usable on object/target located other side of window. I mean, Ash isn't Kool-Aid Man who need to go through (or around) wall when his 3rd skill is literally called Teleport not Super High Speed Movement. Big difference there like Halo Slipspace vs Star Wars Hyperspace, Shushin vs Hiraishin (Naruto), Kool-Aid Man busting through wall vs etc. 

Your idea of having Ash, after teleporting to air, do melee attacks to stay in air remind me of air combo mechanism in old video game called Too Human.

Bladestorm) Not going to touch this one. To be honest, I don't have positive thing to say about Bladestorm (before change and current). But you do explain well what's wrong with current Bladestorm. 

 

Q&A:

I appreciate you coming on here and actually reading it, I’ll try to explain and answer what you have written to the best of my ability.

 

Shuriken: When I added the hold version I had stealth in mind, it`s meant to be used for targeting single target enemies quickly with high damage in stealth play but you do have a point and I agree that it should have increased flight speed, this will improve its effectiveness I’ll add this idea to it (if you don`t mind) thanks for suggesting it.

Make the crit be based on melee made sense due to the nature of Ash, him being a ninja and them using mostly melee weapons plus, it would be weird to have one ability based on secondary and one on melee.

Just to mention also the one thing the single shuriken can do despite what the wiki says you can do this even through you can`t, is the ability to get headshots, which is a big plus to this ability and makes it more rewarding in stealth play seeing them yellow/red slash numbers plus if you kill an enemy in one shot, it will count as a stealth kill.

 

Smoke Screen: As much as I wanted to add the ability to hide def objectives I didn`t however maybe the def NPCs could benefit from it if they stay in one spot.

The 4 sec stun is the instant cast, I’ve just increased it form 1sec to 4 secs, the other two stuns is what you meant. It`s simple, the smoke left behind lasts 10 secs and enemies within the smoke will be stunned for 6 secs, when the 6sec duration is up they will be stunned again coz they will be 4 secs left from the 10 secs for enemies to be stunned again making enemies stuck within the smoke for a total of 12 secs which makes using it in  doorways very affective for keeping enemies at bay (int missions).

Also the stuns not being affected by duration mods means you could mod for less duration (for the ppl that don`t want to be invisible) and turn the ability into strictly cc plus adding range will increase the effectiveness of its cc, it gives player the choice for effective invis, effective cc or a hybrid which changes how the ability will function and is more than just being invis.

 

Teleport: Tbh it having reduced range is something I`m going to get rid of since his 3rd and 4th are similar and need to have differences to set them apart and since bs is the better one out of the two (somewhat). When it comes to the fatal teleport augment, it will work the same except that it will do a strike that is the equivalent to a finisher when it comes to damage however it won`t have the finisher animation which means it`s quick and won`t lock you in place it’s just an automatic stab, maybe he could use his hidden blades to do so, another reason to use the mod.

Ash being able to bypass windows makes sense because of the way teleportation works. I like the hack and slash combat of games like bayonetta and (old) god of war plus since the changes to melee, it makes sense for Ash to be able to do aerial attacks plus hitting airborne enemies (ospreys) is annoying.

 

Blade Storm: Just to put it simply about bs, it’s a mix of the old and current functions giving player a choice on which method they want to use, it`s usable using a mouse and a controller and it rids the probs of what the old and current versions have/had, still if you can, I would like to hear your opinion of my revisit to bs.

 

This is something I’ve been contemplating ever since they added his revisit (nerf) in 2016. Over time I have been perfecting my ideas, adding things that could improve Ash`s abilities and out of all the ideas I have had for Ash, this is the best one (based on this posts views, likes, comments and signings) I’ve come up with.

If you compare the abilities from old Ash, current Ash and my revisited Ash you can see the big difference in their abilities and the growth from old Ash to my revisited Ash and whether ppl like Ash or not, these ideas are a big improvement.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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9 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Blade Storm: Just to put it simply about bs, it’s a mix of the old and current functions giving player a choice on which method they want to use, it`s usable using a mouse and a controller and it rids the probs of what the old and current versions have/had, still if you can, I would like to hear your opinion of my revisit to bs.

 

This is something I’ve been contemplating ever since they added his revisit (nerf) in 2016. Over time I have been perfecting my ideas, adding things that could improve Ash`s abilities and out of all the ideas I have had for Ash, this is the best one (based on this posts views, likes, comments and signings) I’ve come up with.

If you compare the abilities from old Ash, current Ash and my revisited Ash you can see the big difference in their abilities and the growth from old Ash to my revisited Ash and whether ppl like Ash or not, these ideas are a big improvement.

Points taken and I don't mind (you adding flight speed part). 

Bladestorm revisit- Your approach is to Bladestorm is to make it instant just like all other frames' 4th, make sense unless DE decide to troll us in future by making every single frame's 4th a 2 steps. Having choices on executing Bladestorm is good, I like having choices. 

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vexx-info:

Hey guys, I have something special to show today. Here is a short video of some Ash gameplay. It`s will show how some of my ideas can be implemented to Ash`s abilities and will also show the pros and cons of teleport. Most people can`t imaging how warframe abilities would work by explanation so this video is to help you understand through visualisation. If you want more information, watch it on youtube and look in the description box, other than that I hope you enjoy the video.

Time stamps

Now each time stamp will show my ideas that can be implemented and some issues of the way it is currently.

Spoiler

1:36 - This show the possibility of my suggested synergy with shuriken and teleport. It also show that teleport is based on memory.

1:48 - 2:00: This show him bypassing the fan to reach to the other side of it.

2:06 - 2:25: This shows that he can bypass windows but unfortunately it`s not consistent.

2:25 - This show how the held version of shuriken would work.

3:04 - 3:44: This shows how smoke screen can work if you minus duration add my ideas to this would turn it into a much better cc ability.

3:27 - 3:31: This part right here is why I love teleportation however, it shows the inconsistency of enemies opening up to finishers.

3:49 - 4:37: This show teleport bypassing obstacles and show its inconsistency of it.

5:43 - This part here is why I love teleport and why my idea of this should be added to Ash.

7:04 - Another reason why I love Ash.

P.S. My video editing skills sucks I know.

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Just for entertainment`s sake, listen to one of these on loop while watching the Ash gameplay. /\

Skunk Anansie - Charlie Big Potato

Spoiler

 

 

Prince of Persia - Tower Encounter

Spoiler

 

Hellsing  ost - Survival on the streets of insincerity

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by (PS4)Vexx757
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Signed! Luv the concept of Ash, he's probably what got me into WF so whatever improvement he gets I'm up for it. I agree with most of your suggestions for improvements and synergies.

I mostly play solo so I don't really experience most of his issues. Probably what annoys me the most about BS is that painting targets with a controller is not as easy as with a mouse, I'd like it if I could paint small areas instead of single targets and also be able keep marking once the clones start doing their thing. Another thing is that I had to stop joining the clones in the killing altogether cuz sometimes after the animation you can end up stuck inside geometry and have to wait for an enemy to pass by and teleport out of it.

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