Nerfing Arcanes: An Unwise Decision

[Valthryn]

I'll open by saying that I like almost everything presented in the newest dev workshop. However, there was one very disruptive detail that I feel needs to be addressed.

Arcanes: Don't change them, add to them.

 

The stated purpose for the proposed changes to Arcanes is to allow more diversity to builds. People generally use the same few expensive arcanes in their builds and DE wants people to have more reasonable options. Understandable. I propose, however, that removing duplicate arcane slotting and nerfing the most useful arcanes will not only make veteran players very angry, but also severely diminish any kind of meaningful build diversity. I am specifically focused on Arcane Energize, since it's the one I use the most.

Removing the ability to equip duplicate arcanes is going to tank the energy economy of frames like Excalibur, Mesa, Titania, Chroma, Revenant, etc. And further nerfing Energize with a cooldown will only further dig the grave of half of the useful builds in my Warframe Arsenal. The stated reason is to add "variety" to builds, but Arcane Energize in particular, did that in spades. Without Energize, energy-hungry frames outright require you to mod for efficiency and/or duration (based on the ability in question) if you want to use your abilities with any level of frequency. The build variety possible with Energize's dramatically increased energy pickup rate is much more useful and interesting than any combination of two arcanes can provide. Nerfing Energize is going to destroy many useful warframe builds, and dis-incentivise players from trying different builds that might encroach on their energy efficiency .You will either have ability power or frequency of use, but you won't be able to average both. 

 

So, in a nutshell: Would you, as a player, rather have dramatically increased energy pickup, allowing frames to not be pigeon-holed into modding in one specific way in order to be able to use their abilities, or get extra damage for a few seconds after reloading your pistol? The "variety" offered by not allowing duplicate arcanes and nerfing useful arcanes (Energize in particular) is a farce, and destroys far more useful options than it creates.In light of this, I will propose another fix to add variety to arcane selection:

•  Add a 3rd arcane slot and limit the number of duplicate arcanes to 2. That would encourage more build variety without massively screwing over current builds and negatively impacting build variety in every Warframe.

[ForsakenCrusader]

I rather have energize nerfed and hungry energy frames buffed. That way we get the best of both worlds.

[Kierlak]

8 minutes ago, ForsakenCrusader said:

I rather have energize nerfed and hungry energy frames buffed. That way we get the best of both worlds.

DE is allergic to making good decisions, so you can go ahead and forget that ever happening.

[Jarriaga]

52 minutes ago, Valthryn said:

Nerfing Energize is going to destroy many useful warframe builds, and dis-incentivise players from trying different builds that might encroach on their energy efficiency

That's the point though. Scott said Arcanes were meant to work as "rare" buffs that could change the tide of battle. They were never intended to be things players actually made builds around.

This is case of intended use vs. common use.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jarriaga

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Nerfs > Buffs, almost always. There's two ways to increase diversity in builds. Nerfing those elements that are OP or buffing everything else to the levels of what is the most OP. Warframe has always had issues with power creep because they use it as a selling point for new gear a lot of the time, which over time wreaks havok to many other areas of the game's balance and eventually requires massive updates, like rebalancing all weapons. Nerfing doesn't have this huge drawback, and nets the same result.

I would have been happy with a removal of dual stacking as that not only cause large inconsistencies between certain arcanes compared to others, it also reduced would have reduced player power by a significant margin as well as ended being able to get full immunity from an element. But, they went for a hybrid approach and compromised.

Players have become so unbelievably powerful that I take any reduction in that power DE provides.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Nerfs > Buffs, almost always. There's two ways to increase diversity in builds. Nerfing those elements that are OP or buffing everything else to the levels of what is the most OP.

Except when things aren’t OP and DE is just nerfing them for “diversity’s sake”.

Because I have never once thought the best arcanes were anywhere near OP, so nerfing them as motivation for players to equip crap like arcane warmth is completely misguided.

[Dragazer]

2 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Nerfs > Buffs, almost always. There's two ways to increase diversity in builds. Nerfing those elements that are OP or buffing everything else to the levels of what is the most OP. Warframe has always had issues with power creep because they use it as a selling point for new gear a lot of the time, which over time wreaks havok to many other areas of the game's balance and eventually requires massive updates, like rebalancing all weapons. Nerfing doesn't have this huge drawback, and nets the same result.

I would have been happy with a removal of dual stacking as that not only cause large inconsistencies between certain arcanes compared to others, it also reduced would have reduced player power by a significant margin as well as ended being able to get full immunity from an element. But, they went for a hybrid approach and compromised.

Players have become so unbelievably powerful that I take any reduction in that power DE provides.

If they wanted diversity, why did Arcanes have different rarity tiers? Grace and Energize are legendary rarity with a 5% drop chance from capturing the last Eidolon. Whereas Nullifier is common rarity with a 15% drop chance which could be quickly farmed as it only required killing the 1st Eidolon.

Why would some arcanes be arbitrarily much more time consuming and difficult to obtain if they were meant to perform the same?  

 

[Chicken-Biryani]

7 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Why would some arcanes be arbitrarily much more time consuming and difficult to obtain if they were meant to perform the same?  

Because they clearly wanted to make them harder to obtain and consequently better enhancements in performance. But don't be the voice of reason. 😖🤫

[nslay]

4 hours ago, Valthryn said:

Revenant

No. He does not need two Arcane Energizes... he doesn't even need one! But I'm sure it's a nice addition if you have the darn things!

I can't speak for the other frames you mentioned. If I had to guess, Energize is a bandaid for Blind Rage-centric builds?

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Valthryn said:

Arcanes: Don't change them, add to them.

Meh, I should hope that DE does both.

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Energize enabled blind rage builds beautifully, allowing you to spam abilities quite a bit with a double set.  It was honestly pretty OP with any frame that had some power that you could cast repeatedly to nuke the map and a decent energy pool.  My only fear now is will frost prime FINALLY get some attention in regards to his energy pool?  It's downright pathetic for a caster frame like frost so I always used two energize on him.  

[(PSN)thowed]

Been playing less and less because I hate railjack (to each his own).  They're sure making it easy to not come back.  Been playing other games and waiting on the Division 2 expansion this week and if it's good don't think I'll drop it for more railjack and having to get 11 more arcanes to Max out the ones I already had maxed out.  Oh well I'll save $140 every three months on PA and accessories.  Back to Warhammer, "For the Emperor".

[iuki.]

these nerf just mean that power hungry frames/builds will all have to use zenurik to get energy. you want to run another focus school? no way man. not in this game! so less build diversity in the end, great! so looking forward to paying 3k for a r5 arcane instead of 1k. gotta 'encourage' plat sales, right?

Edited March 1, 2020 by iuki.

[Danielw8]

looks like is time to use harrow/trinity

[(NSW)Austee]

4 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Scott said

 

4 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Scott said

 

4 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Scott said

 

4 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

That's the point though. Scott said Arcanes were meant to work as "rare" buffs that could change the tide of battle. They were never intended to be things players actually made builds around.

This is case of intended use vs. common use.

 

Yup, he said....

 

The fact is though he says all these things after the fact. YEARS after the fact. After countless people have bought and spent countless plat and spent countless hours farming these arcanes for builds. Just like melee and all the Rivens that became worthless, and every other nerfs and changes that renders something purchased worthless.  I myself spent a few months farming energize and guardian. And I get it, it was my choice to spend that time farming these arcanes, just like it was others choice to spend the plat or farm them themselves. But, these weren’t Rivens specifically stated that they would be subjected to changes depending on how and who used them. 
 

The truth is none of these arcanes were extremely op by themselves, and to think by nerfing the most popular ones is going to make me use arcane ice or barrier or strike or what ever is ridiculous. I’ll do exactly what everyone else is going to do, go farm the extra arcanes I need to get to R5 and keep using the same 2 I always use. So, so much for the build diversity argument. 
 

Intended use vs common use??? Give me a break. So we aren’t playing how Scott wants us to play so they change it to try and force us to play his intended way?? (Sounds a lot like the same argument he used for the condition overload nerf and melee changes.) If it wasn’t intended why get rid of arcane helmets then? Those were super rare and hard to get which made it so you couldn’t build around arcanes reliably.  Why add 2 arcane slots on every Warframe? Because it was intended to be played that way, I would say by adding in those 2 slots meant they were encouraging people to build around arcanes, because instead of fixing the inherent problems of the game, arcanes were just another bandaid like Rivens.  
 

But now they’ve changed their mind and only because it just stands to make them more money and force people to put in more hours to get more of the arcanes they have already farmed and bought that were already maxed to make a R5 arcane that is now arguably weaker.  Watch, when this drops the trade chat is going to be inundated with arcane sales with ridiculous pricing regardless of wether they add more ways to get the arcanes. People will start buying overpriced rubico and Lanka Rivens shortly to start the inevitable tricap farms. And the fact they nerfed chromas self damage only confirms that. They are getting ready to make a ton of money on plat sales. 
 

Don’t think for a second Scott cares how you play this game, Scott and DE are a company about 1 thing, making money. And I have nothing against that. But if you think that these changes are about balance and build diversity just connect the dots. You can trace back every questionable decision over the last 2 years to nothing more then trying to jump start declining plat sales. 
 

I’m just say’n. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

That's the point though. Scott said Arcanes were meant to work as "rare" buffs that could change the tide of battle. They were never intended to be things players actually made builds around.

This is case of intended use vs. common use.

Boy thank god that they decided not to do anything about it for several years. That was a 400 IQ decision. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 minutes ago, (NSW)Austee said:

 

 

 

 

Yup, he said....

 

The fact is though he says all these things after the fact. YEARS after the fact. After countless people have bought and spent countless plat and spent countless hours farming these arcanes for builds. Just like melee and all the Rivens that became worthless, and every other nerfs and changes that renders something purchased worthless.  I myself spent a few months farming energize and guardian. And I get it, it was my choice to spend that time farming these arcanes, just like it was others choice to spend the plat or farm them themselves. But, these weren’t Rivens specifically stated that they would be subjected to changes depending on how and who used them. 
 

The truth is none of these arcanes were extremely op by themselves, and to think by nerfing the most popular ones is going to make me use arcane ice or barrier or strike or what ever is ridiculous. I’ll do exactly what everyone else is going to do, go farm the extra arcanes I need to get to R5 and keep using the same 2 I always use. So, so much for the build diversity argument. 
 

Intended use vs common use??? Give me a break. So we aren’t playing how Scott wants us to play so they change it to try and force us to play his intended way?? (Sounds a lot like the same argument he used for the condition overload nerf and melee changes.) If it wasn’t intended why get rid of arcane helmets then? Those were super rare and hard to get which made it so you couldn’t build around arcanes reliably.  Why add 2 arcane slots on every Warframe? Because it was intended to be played that way, I would say by adding in those 2 slots meant they were encouraging people to build around arcanes, because instead of fixing the inherent problems of the game, arcanes were just another bandaid like Rivens.  
 

But now they’ve changed their mind and only because it just stands to make them more money and force people to put in more hours to get more of the arcanes they have already farmed and bought that were already maxed to make a R5 arcane that is now arguably weaker.  Watch, when this drops the trade chat is going to be inundated with arcane sales with ridiculous pricing regardless of wether they add more ways to get the arcanes. People will start buying overpriced rubico and Lanka Rivens shortly to start the inevitable tricap farms. And the fact they nerfed chromas self damage only confirms that. They are getting ready to make a ton of money on plat sales. 
 

Don’t think for a second Scott cares how you play this game, Scott and DE are a company about 1 thing, making money. And I have nothing against that. But if you think that these changes are about balance and build diversity just connect the dots. You can trace back every questionable decision over the last 2 years to nothing more then trying to jump start declining plat sales. 
 

I’m just say’n. 

Dude I'm so sick of this garbage. I cant believe that a)that's they would allow something "busted" that they "didnt intend" to exist for YEARS before deciding to tell us it wasnt intentional, and then nerf it into the ground. B) meanwhile they profit off of it being "busted" the whole time and then c) white knight nerd herders rush to their defense when anyone questions it.

[akrid45]

Here is a crazy thought...Use pizzas with energize. Problem solved 

[GPrime96]

2 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Dude I'm so sick of this garbage. I cant believe that a)that's they would allow something "busted" that they "didnt intend" to exist for YEARS before deciding to tell us it wasnt intentional, and then nerf it into the ground. B) meanwhile they profit off of it being "busted" the whole time and then c) white knight nerd herders rush to their defense when anyone questions it.

And this explains the whole of Warframe.

[Jarriaga]

18 hours ago, (NSW)Austee said:

But, these weren’t Rivens specifically stated that they would be subjected to changes depending on how and who used them. 

No, not explicitly mentioned to be subject to change under said specific conditions. But this is DE's official stance:

On 2020-02-28 at 12:21 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Warframe is still about power and you being a destructive force in the Origin System with hundreds of tools at your disposal. Warframes have never been more lethal or powerful than they are in the current version of Warframe - we do not aim to reduce that across the board, but we do aim to let that power stand on consistency in our designs.  

That means that "power fantasy" follows "consistency", not the other way around. Ergo, by proxy, nothing is sacred and everything is subject to change and nerfed and doesn't need per case clarification as to "If people do X, will Y change?".

18 hours ago, (NSW)Austee said:

The truth is none of these arcanes were extremely op by themselves

Agreed. It's not a problem until you stack 2, which is what they don't want.

18 hours ago, (NSW)Austee said:

to think by nerfing the most popular ones is going to make me use arcane ice or barrier or strike or what ever is ridiculous.  I’ll do exactly what everyone else is going to do, go farm the extra arcanes I need to get to R5 and keep using the same 2 I always use. So, so much for the build diversity argument. 

For now? Yes, I agree. We don't know if there will be a future use for them though. More so considering that elemental proc stacking will be a thing now, which means a fire proc could constantly drain your life or make it so you can't heal if you have no protection. 

It's DE's job to design scenarios in which Arcane Ice would be desirable and they are yet to do so, which is why the more general-purpose Arcanes are more popular. It's a negative feedback loop.

But they have to start somewhere, and this is it. 

18 hours ago, (NSW)Austee said:

Intended use vs common use??? Give me a break. So we aren’t playing how Scott wants us to play so they change it to try and force us to play his intended way?? (Sounds a lot like the same argument he used for the condition overload nerf and melee changes.)  If it wasn’t intended why get rid of arcane helmets then? Those were super rare and hard to get which made it so you couldn’t build around arcanes reliably.  Why add 2 arcane slots on every Warframe? Because it was intended to be played that way, I would say by adding in those 2 slots meant they were encouraging people to build around arcanes, because instead of fixing the inherent problems of the game, arcanes were just another bandaid like Rivens.  

Yes? He flat out said they don't want you to double-stack in no uncertain terms . That's not open to interpretation. So if they don't want you to double-stack, the natural outcome is to prevent you from double-stacking. 

And the thing is, we don't know when they changed their minds about it. Maybe they lacked foresight and expected players not do so on their own free will. Maybe it became too much of a common prevalence after seeing partners making build guides in which the Arcanes were put first and built around and DE didn't like it.

Whatever the reason, right now, they don't like it.  Unless you are implying they are not allowed to change their minds then whether they intended it or not is a moot point.

18 hours ago, (NSW)Austee said:

But now they’ve changed their mind and only because it just stands to make them more money and force people to put in more hours to get more of the arcanes they have already farmed and bought that were already maxed to make a R5 arcane that is now arguably weaker. Watch, when this drops the trade chat is going to be inundated with arcane sales with ridiculous pricing regardless of wether they add more ways to get the arcanes. People will start buying overpriced rubico and Lanka Rivens shortly to start the inevitable tricap farms. And the fact they nerfed chromas self damage only confirms that. They are getting ready to make a ton of money on plat sales. 

They already confirmed you'll be able to distill your second Rank 3 Arcane so you can add the pieces to the R5. At best you won't need to farm anything at all if they choose to go 5+5 for the missing ranks. At worst you'll only need 1 more Arcane, which you'll be able to pick and choose from the vendor with no RNG involved. When compared to the current system and people double-stacking, it means the exact same number of Arcane copies or just 1 more. Barely anything changes.

And still, if you feel this is being done just to push plat sales, why don't you boycott DE by making an organized campaign encouraging people not to buy plat? I mean, if it's so obvious that this is being done to squeeze Arcane plat despite the number of needed Arcanes remaining the same or barely changing, surely enough people will agree with you and join the boycott. Right?

18 hours ago, (NSW)Austee said:

Don’t think for a second Scott cares how you play this game, Scott and DE are a company about 1 thing, making money. And I have nothing against that. But if you think that these changes are about balance and build diversity just connect the dots. You can trace back every questionable decision over the last 2 years to nothing more then trying to jump start declining plat sales. 
 

I’m just say’n. 

I have 2 options here:

1) Choose to believe that what Scott said is the truth.

2) Choose to believe that Scott is lying and there's a hidden motive behind it all (Plat sales).

Considering that more Arcane acquisition methods are being added with little to no change in the total number of Arcanes you'll need (Have to wait until the operation drops) if you were double-stacking, I'd have to go out of my way to project a hidden motive into what Scott said. You are choosing to ignore arcane distillation and think your second current R3 goes to waste. So those people who will sell Rank 5 Arcanes will do so for the price of 2 current Rank 3 Arcanes. Other than the stat nerfs, nothing changes.

18 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Boy thank god that they decided not to do anything about it for several years. That was a 400 IQ decision. 

They do have a terrible track record of sitting on problems for far too long, allowing players to get used to cheese and broken mechanics. I still remember the vitriol on Fortuna's launch with the first Riven disposition update. They need to work on nerfing/changing/buffing things while they are relevant to avoid complacency.

18 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

 c) white knight nerd herders rush to their defense when anyone questions it.

 

15 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

And this explains the whole of Warframe.

See, here's the problem with players with a mentality like yours: You can't even fathom the possibility that someone may be accepting of nerfs for reasons other than being a white knight that just bends over and takes it as given to them by DE without question as if there's no middle ground.

Constructive criticism towards their decisions, by me:

Feedback on the melee rework and how it killed Naramon and Blood Rush.

How to improve the Kuva Lich system by streamlining it and decreasing the layers of RNG.

The problem with one and done rewards.

Why WF needs dedicated servers at least for Arbitration.

Just because I can accept a nerf does't mean I accept the entire game as it is without question while defending any DE decision. Nuance in a per-case basis. I know that's a hard concept for you to grasp based on your response.

You on the other hand, sound vitriolic and bitter. You only point the finger and say "That sucks, period" and the fact that you see people who may be OK with nerfs like this as white knights just further highlights your cynical attitude and how irredeemable DE are for you. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jarriaga

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

6 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

No, not explicitly mentioned to be subject to change under said specific conditions. But this is DE's official stance:

That means that "power fantasy" follows "consistency", not the other way around. Ergo, by proxy, nothing is sacred and everything is subject to change and nerfs and doesn't need per case clarification as to "If people do X, while Y change?".

Agreed. It's not a problem until you stack 2, which is why they don't want.

For now? Yes, I agree. We don't know if there will be a future use for them though. More so considering that elemental proc stacking will be a thing now, which means a fire proc could constantly drain your life or make it so you can't heal if you have no protection. 

It's DE's job to design scenarios in which Arcane Ice would be desirable and they are yet to do so, which is why the more general-purpose Arcanes are more popular. It's a negative feedback loop.

But they have to start somewhere, and this is it. 

Yes? He flat out said they don't want you to double-stack in no uncertain terms . That's not open to interpretation. So if they don't want you to double-stack, the natural outcome is to prevent you from double-stacking. 

And the thing is, we don't know when they changed their minds about it. Maybe they lacked foresight and expected players not do so on their own free will. Maybe it become too much of a common prevalence after seeing partners making build guides in which the Arcanes were put first and built around and didn't like it.

Whatever the reason, right now, they don't like it.  Unless you are implying they are not allowed to change their minds then whether they intended it or not is a moot point.

They already confirmed you'll be able to distill your second Rank 3 Arcane so you can add the pieces to the R5. At best you won't need to farm anything a all if they choose to go 5+5. At worst you'll only need 1 more Arcane, which you'll be able to pick and choose from the vendor with no RNG involved at all. When compared to the current system and people double-stacking, it means the exact same number of Arcane copies or just 1 more. Barely anything changes.

And still, if you feel this is being done just to push plat sales, why don't you boycott DE by making an organized campaign encouraging people not to buy plat? I mean, if it's so obvious that this is being done to squeeze Arcane plat, surely enough people will agree with you and join the boycott. Right?

I have 2 options here:

1) Choose to believe that what Scott said is the truth.

2) Choose to believe that Scott is lying and there's a hidden motive behind it all (Plat sales).

Considering that more Arcane acquisition methods are being added with little to no change in the total number of Arcanes you'll need (Have to wait until the operation drops) if you were double-stacking, I'd have to go out of my way to project a hidden motive into what Scott said. You are choosing to ignore arcane distillation and think your second current R3 goes to waste. So those people who will sell Rank 5 Arcanes will do so for the price of 2 current Rank 3 Arcanes. Nothing changes.

They do have a terrible track record of sitting on problems for far too long, allowing players to get used to cheese and broken mechanics. I still remember the vitriol on Fortuna's launch with the first Riven disposition update. They need to work on nerfing/changing/buffing things while they are relevant to avoid complacency.

See, here's the problem with players with a mentality like yours: You can't even fathom the possibility that someone may be accepting of nerfs for reasons other than being a white knight that just bends over and takes it as given to them by DE without question as if there's no middle ground.

Constructive criticism towards their decisions, by me:

Feedback on the melee rework and how it killed Naramon and Blood Rush.

How to improve the Kuva Lich system by streamlining it and decreasing the layers of RNG.

The problem with one and done rewards.

Why WF needs dedicated servers at least for Arbitration.

You on the other hand, sound vitriolic and bitter. You don't provide feedback. You don't offer solutions. You only point the finger and say "That sucks, period". The fact that you see people who may be OK with nerfs like this as white knights just further highlights your cynical attitude and how irredeemable DE are for you.

Hey, I did offer "constructive criticism". The arcane diversity argument is not gonna work because so many arcanes are just mechanically not helpful. I would be 100% in favor of overhauling the arcane system if we would end up with more viable arcane choices but I dont think we're gonna end up with that. The meta arcanes will still be meta and the bad arcanes will still be bad. 

Like arcane warmth. They can nerf the "good arcanes" by another 50 percent and it still wouldn't make it worth using. It's too situational and even in the only situation where it MIGHT be convenient it isnt a big deal to just accept the proc. 

 

As for my "vitriol". If you don't like my opinion that's fine. I'm tired of people begging for nerfs because they somehow think "playing with a hand tied behind their back" (not using something) is soooooooo different than DE tying all of our hands behind our backs for us, and going with the assumption that "balance" is inherently more "fun".

 

And even if the changes weren't inherently flawed I'm still pissed that in the case of arcane guardian I'm gonna have to get ten or eleven more of them just to make it slightly worse than it is now. And yes dammit anyone defending that artificially created grind is white knighting in my opinion. That's asinine. 

[Jarriaga]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

As for my "vitriol". If you don't like my opinion that's fine. I'm tired of people begging for nerfs because they somehow think "playing with a hand tied behind their back" (not using something) is soooooooo different than DE tying all of our hands behind our backs for us, and going with the assumption that "balance" is inherently more "fun".

Thank you for the more nuanced response.

Indeed, it is a incompatibility of perception. I do believe balance is more fun, because I get bored when I am significantly stronger than my AI opponents. I also believe that DE can not work towards an endgame when we have so many ways to outright bypass any semblance of difficulty or challenge. I also like consistency.

25 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

And even if the changes weren't inherently flawed I'm still pissed that in the case of arcane guardian I'm gonna have to get ten or eleven more of them just to make it slightly worse than it is now.

I agree with you with Guardian in particular. I even made my post about it in the dev workshop thread:

On 2020-02-28 at 6:36 PM, Jarriaga said:

Thank for the update. Overall, I do like the changes and the direction they are heading. There's one that sorely sticks out though:

This is the only Arcane that looks objectively nerfed without compensation, and hard. Unless that's a typo, not only will you not get the 50% stacking compensation (For 900 total armor in this case), but it will also have a lower proc chance than the current Rank 3 version (15% vs 20%). Sure it will last longer, but you'll be taking a lot more damage. This will be a death blow to my Umbra, which is squishy enough as is even with Umbral Fiber. Any special reasoning as to why this defensive Arcane is being nerfed so hard? Shield gating will not compensate the survivability loss in melee frames that will be taking more damage in the frontlines (Again, Excalibur).

 

But that's because it doesn't even follow the same "consistency" argument presented for reasoning, so it sticks out because it has a stronger impact. Most Arcanes will feel the same as they do right now at R3 without needing additional copies, but Guardian doesn't follow the same rule.

25 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

And yes dammit anyone defending that artificially created grind is white knighting in my opinion. That's asinine. 

And then you killed nuance again. Even if I agree with you on Guardian in particular, you seem to be incapable of accepting when someone agrees with you for a completely different reason due to your inherent bias against balance.  "Power fantasy" follows "consistency" as per Reb's own words, not the other way around. Try to make peace with that, as it seems to be guiding all recent nerfs that have been taking place, and those that are yet to come.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jarriaga