2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh: Part 2!

[Cyro_Valithum]

Just saw the impact edit, thanks that was my biggest concern with the status changes! Something I forgot to touch on is that arcanes from scarlet spear is great, but can we expect more ways to aquire arcanes after Scarlet Spear ends other than eidolons hunts? It would help more people fool around with arcane combinations and testing. Whether it's a vender, arbitratons, or something else.

[Rogunz]

Applying 90% damage falloff to every AoE weapon regardless of the size of the AoE is going to murder all of the already unpopular weapons with small AoEs. They gain almost nothing from the 20% boost to radius and any enemies they hit are always going to be near the outer edge of their radius and barely take any damage.

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Self Damage + AoE Weapons

In addition to Self Damage being removed, some of the more powerful AOE weapons without Self Damage presently will have the Stagger added, but it should only be noticeable in cases of extreme inaccuracy on the player’s part.

Which is why these mostly niche weapons are impacted the most by these changes and are going to get thrown in the trash by the handful of players that still use them. I don't get how you can look at something like the Ferrox or Astilla that might hit 1-2 extra enemies and nerf them more than the reason AoE weapons are getting nerfed, the Kuva Bramma.

[(XBOX)ShmittyG]

7 hours ago, Sauravisus said:

No armor buff for Nidus who cannot take advantage of shield gating, because he literally has no shields? For shame.

He has his death avoiding passive that can be earned easily and can be continuously refreshed. 

[SunsetChaos]

Ragdoll

Impact giving ragdoll was not acceptable because it's a common IPS.

Blast should give ragdoll, people would build for it if they want it, makes sense too.

 

Self Damage

The problem was never just self damage, it's that we die in 1 shot from high damage because our health, even armor, and especially shields don't do crap compared to defensive abilities.

Return self damage, it adds variety, high risk high reward. BUT only lower it to like 10% of the damage it does now.

 

AOE

90% fall off should only start AFTER the current radius we have, meaning a buffed range with fall off but not affecting the original radius.

[dregomz]

Ok that makes Corrosive useless, now everyone will be running with viral + slash/gas/rad

 

Also impact should stun enemies without ragdolling/moving them so you could easily land headshots for few secs.

 

EDIT: actually due no overstripping corrosive/heat may be even better than before

[Hyohakusha]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Repeat single-target Impact Status Effects will escalate the efficacy of the Impact Status (from Stagger to full Ragdoll).
EDIT: We are reviewing how Ragdoll feels and may change pending feedback. EXPECT AN UPDATE TODAY ON THIS NOTE! EDIT 2: No more Ragdoll!

Good. Holy crap would that have been absolutely awful. Like the thread in general feedback says, just make it a stun. Use a one or two second sleep animation, add a simple goofy effect of stars/ condrocs/ Clem's floaing around the enemies head. Impact is straight up the most annoying proc in the game since it just knocks the enemy out of your line of fire, which is why
-impact rivens sell for so much.

[Amoral_Support]

7 hours ago, Kylo. said:

Well Viral is gonna help with damage but Corrosive and Radiation deal extra damage to armoured Grineer.

Could go with Heat/Viral? 50% Armor Strip, Stacking DoTs and Stacking Damage buff versus Cloned Flesh. Gibe Grineer Mega space ebola bruddah.

[Amoral_Support]

5 minutes ago, dregomz said:

Ok that makes Corrosive useless, now everyone will be running with viral + slash/gas/rad

80% Armor strip is not useless. Over stripping armor is actually v.bad for time to kill. You lose the damage buff you would gain from corrosive damage getting a bonus to and ignoring 75% of a targets ferrite armor. 

[DexterWolf]

Bring up that feedback thread so we can tell you how bad of an idea it is to go through with this explosive change. The original idea is better (+20% damage, 50% damage drop off). Start from the top and nerf it down, not the other way around. Just because something is good and performs above all else, doesn't mean it's the only option. There will always be weapons that are better than others. This isn't "balance", this is just killing off a weapon class unnecessarily. Please keep in mind this is a PvE game. There's no opponent to complain about how overpowered something is

[Eleraan]

Seriously, How come Nidus didn't get an armor boost while Inaros did.  I know Nidus already has a high armor and several survival tools but he has to work his butt off to use most of them.  And the difference in damage reduction between Inaros and Nidus was I believe a difference of 20% which is substantial until you remember Inaros has what 4.9 times the base health of Nidus?

This doesn't even touch on Grendel, who I enjoy better as a derp face tank than Inaros.  He has something like 6% less damage reduction from armor than Nidus but 2.3 times his base health and a infinitely stacking armor buff when he can keep it up. And he has that previously silly 75 shield which now basically lets him have shield gating or a free ignore a hit every so often.  

I really enjoy Nidus, he is one of my favorite frames but I've already found him to be kinda squishy unless your in a mission that goes long enough you can keep plenty of stack and are camping so you can make use of his rather short range umbilical cord damage reduction. I can take an Inaros or Grendel and let a Kuva Lich toss me around all day no worries with out having to do anything.  I'm not saying nerf the other frames I'm just curious why there was no love given to Nidus? Does DE think he is too tanky as is? I know his regen can kinda boost his eHP somewhat but in a world of healing return and life strike or one of the several operator methods of healing I think it is kinda  a moot point. 

 

Guess I should just be glad there is no longer any reason to do high endurance runs of high level missions anymore.  

[FunYourself]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Faction Aura Changes

There are 3 Auras that target specific Factions:

Infested Impedance, Corrosive Projection, and Shield Disruption.

We are rebalancing the faction Auras to not completely bypass our rebalancing effort. More importantly though, with the complete Enemy defenses rescale these Auras (mostly Corrosive Projection) will not be as necessary as they were. 

Why: We think being consistent is key. Passively removing 100% of an enemy's defenses is not an interesting choice, and we were completely inconsistent in this regard with Auras (i.e the efficacy of 4x Corrosive Projections vs 4x Shield Disruptions). Expect these Auras to reach somewhere in the 60-80% Range when 4x are equipped as we are still testing.
 

Will you ever think in Balancing about the changes for Solo game mode?
These changes Auras are mega nerf for us, like many earlier changes.
"...when 4x are equipped..." we never have even x2 :D 
(EDIT) Maybe some special buff for Solo mode?

[Amoral_Support]

9 minutes ago, Rogunz said:

Applying 90% damage falloff to every AoE weapon regardless of the size of the AoE is going to murder all of the already unpopular weapons with small AoEs. They gain almost nothing from the 20% boost to radius and any enemies they hit are always going to be near the outer edge of their radius and barely take any damage.

Which is why these mostly niche weapons are impacted the most by these changes and are going to get thrown in the trash by the handful of players that still use them. I don't get how you can look at something like the Ferrox or Astilla that might hit 1-2 extra enemies and nerf them more than the reason AoE weapons are getting nerfed, the Kuva Bramma.

The range increase is actually a straight buff to the Ferroxs alt fire. Dunno much about the Astilla tbh.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

50 minutes ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Absolutely none of these new statuses are anywhere remotely close to being strong enough to have warranted the status nerf on shotguns.

To be fair, Viral.  It's stupidstrong, and a lot of status shotguns are primary slash.  I still don't like it, but I understand it.

55 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Nice, seems you're killing my favorite primary (Tigris Prime getting status nerfed) and secondary (Staticor now causing annoying stagger when detonated on floor).

Oh you have no idea.  If you read carefully, it isn't just self-damage AoE weapons that are getting that 90% radial falloff -- it's all of the AOE weapons, including things like the Astilla which will now how two forms of falloff.  Maybe that viral change will help it a bit, I guess.

48 minutes ago, OmegaGameZ248 said:

After this mainline launches can we expect warframes like excal, mag, mesa, ivara and others to survive longer than two seconds in high level content (without the use of abilities because you shouldn't need to use abilities to keep yourself alive)

What?  Of course they should splatter if they get caught out.  That's a very large part of the point of having things like CC, DR abilities, and invisibility.  I mean, I effectively main Ivara, and she's fine in that regard.

[Kadesfy]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We think being consistent is key. Passively removing 100% of an enemy's defenses is not an interesting choice, and we were completely inconsistent in this regard with Auras (i.e the efficacy of 4x Corrosive Projections vs 4x Shield Disruptions). Expect these Auras to reach somewhere in the 60-80% Range when 4x are equipped as we are still testing.

How about something like: 1x(aura): 40%(effect), 2x(aura): 60%(effect), 3x 70% 4x: 75%?

for a incentive on using different auras on predetermined partys.

EDIT: Oh, and 1 more thing... how about the auras having a ranged effect? something around the affinity range, so players have reasons to stay together and not jumping around the 4 corners of the map? Plus the mechanic of having the squad giving a large area debuff of 40%, or closing together for a total debuff of 75% to take down tougher enemies

[mikakor]

14 minutes ago, Brasten said:

Please, don't nerf AoE damage across the board. Just nerf the damage when a Tenno shoots rockets at their own feet.

this sounds pretty nice change to do. make sure to indicate it in their AoE Feedback once they post it!

9 minutes ago, SunsetChaos said:

Self Damage

The problem was never just self damage, it's that we die in 1 shot from high damage because our health, even armor, and especially shields don't do crap compared to defensive abilities.

Return self damage, it adds variety, high risk high reward. BUT only lower it to like 10% of the damage it does now.

same for you too, go complain on the thread once they post it. i truly don't want to see AoE weapons getting trashed... well, trashed even more than what they already are because of their inability to accept that AoE damage aren't pure evil

[Nevieth]

8 hours ago, Gaikki said:

I have one question: Will we get ragdolled if we shoot a missile at our feet? 

I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered there is no ragdoll for players, only an animation stagger. I'm a bit worried about my "spam staticor explosions underneath me" tactic after this... I'm also curious if the Pox cloud will cause stagger, or if just throwing it at the moment would.

Any information DE? I only checked first page, so link me if someone answered this later on please. Thanks.

[StormSaber1]

My thoughts on corrosive: As of the current planned changes to it, Heat seems to be the superior option, as Heat strips 50% armor compared to Corrosive's 26% (up to 80%). Sure Heat has a 2 second ramp up before it reaches 50%, but you only need 1 proc for that, and it will still continue to be 50% as long as a single Heat proc is present, and considering they last 6 seconds, it's not that hard to achieve. Meanwhile with corrosive, to reach 50%, you need to apply and keep 5 separate procs, which have their own duration. So even if corrosive lasts 8 seconds, you will still start losing stacks, if you are not applying new procs fast enough, even before reaching 50%, much less 80%, which needs 10 stacks active. Also remember that Heat has a damage and cc component to it too.

[Rankii]

1 minute ago, -Kittens- said:

There's no name calling involved, but I do appreciate the baseless virtue signal.

 

Explosive weapons do hundreds of K in damage and three of them can reach 100% status, and four of them can reach around 4-7x crit, which is more than enough damage to literally vaporize anything on the star chart that currently exists, and all but one has more more than enough fire rate to ignore boss damage gating so you can just mash the fire button til you're done, and not even consider what the boss does for offense or defense.

Maybe you should take a long look at your intent, because A there are three other people in your squad also playing the game, and B six and seven figure crits are enough BEEG NUMBAR, as heavy melee has shown rather handily. There's fixing long standing issues and then there's wanting the tile set to yourself, and I hate to break it to you, they aren';t as intrinsically entwined as you consider them to be.

That's not how virtue signaling works. Saying that I've been right from the start is just that: me being right.

And nobody uses the starchart as a standard for weapon damage reasonably, same with bosses. I can take nearly any trash weapon into a bossfight and do fine. The usual test is against Lv100+ corrupted bombards or something similar. Bogstandard weapons will do just fine against the usual trashmobs that are in the starchart. For any content worth doing, however, those weapons are painfully insufficient. It's not about the numbers, it's about actually being useful in content and not being locked to the same few weapons that are currently "meta". This applies to me, as well as other players operating on the same scale of power.

Speaking of which, you are making a lot of assumptions here about intent and interaction. Between the ever-present saryn spores, a mesa bullet-jumping into a room and activating peacemaker, Wukong/the latest zaw combo spin2winning a tile, I would say that my "BEEG NUMBAR" weapon is more a means of keeping up most of the time than it is any sort of unfair advantage. You should, I hope, know this much since you're apparently been around since 2013. Nerfing the S#&$ out of everything isn't going to be doing the people on the higher end of the power scale any favors. Especially if it comes alongside the enemy getting a universal defensive buff and the means of dealing with them effectively removed.

[Kazk250]

Hi guys. I’m not sure wether I can ask this question in this forum, but is the kuva tonkor any good?

[Knicklichtjedi]

I love that you dont fear anymore to touch the basics of Warframe!

The Armor Buffs seem really good across the board.
The Status Changes are interessting as well; cant wait to test them myself. Magnetic and Viral seem a little bit unexciting just looking at the effects, but that might change on testing.
I love that Armor Stripping is touched! Negating Armor just by running 4 times CP felt a bit wrong, especially because that wasnt really a thing for shielded units with Shield Disruption.
No Status Immunity for Eidolons in the future might be a huge game changer! Im excited to see how that will turn out!

It has been a long time since I was as excited for an update like this one.
Those fundamental changes keep the (modding) game fresh!

[eboomer]

3 minutes ago, Amoral_Support said:

80% Armor strip is not useless. Over stripping armor is actually v.bad for time to kill. You lose the damage buff you would gain from corrosive damage getting a bonus to and ignoring 75% of a targets ferrite armor. 

But it takes 10 corrosive procs all in the space of 8 seconds with this update as described to reach 80% strip whereas one single heat proc gives 50% reduction.  So for the most part I suspect heat viral and slash will be better.

[eboomer]

1 minute ago, Kazk250 said:

Hi guys. I’m not sure wether I can ask this question in this forum, but is the kuva tonkor any good?

No and no XD

[thelasttand]

After reading some feedback here and there i am starting to feel concerned about AOE weapons.
Why would anyone use a low magazine, low fire rate AOE weapon if it has 90% damage falloff on the radial damage?
Where is the high risk high reward?

Shield Gating changes seems cool on paper right?
but what if i use a slow firing weapon with little magazine like ogris? i would have to fire 2 times instead of one to kill one dude. lets not mention tonkor or other AOE weapons.

blast will sure change alot of things for AOE weapons as most of them deal some good blast damage. but now it will just reduce accuracy..
(a little moment of silence for melee weapons with blast proc like orthos weapon. slaming the floor to get a nice finisher when the nenemy fall down will not be possible anymore...)

so in conculsion:
AOE based weapons NERF:
■ 20% bigger AOE but up to 90% damage falloff on radial damage.(Some AOE weapons has innate poor accuracy like kulstar and angstrum.)
■ no more CC for innate blast AOE weapons.
■ No more self damage (good for kulstar lol) but stagger (remember the 20% bigger AOE?)
■ need an additional shot against corpus.

=>  beam weapons will now outshine AOE weapons in dealing AOE damage.

[RottedApples]

I'm concerned about some of these weapons that are getting stagger on them, like the simulor for example, how does the stagger work on that, where is it, it's a complicated gun and i hope it's not on the singularities themselves and just the end explosion.

Also the staticor and pox could be very easy to proc this stagger (not to mention it makes no sense on the pox)
Cyanex you have little control over once you start shooting, i'm not expecting the bullets to circle back around on me entirely but i have a suspicion it will have a lot of "how was i staggered, what hit me" moments.

I'm also concerned 90% damage fall off may be too extreme but it depends on how linear that fall off it and i'll wait and see for sure. Please don't give the lenz fall off, it doesn't work with the vfx

[Howling_MoMo]

im worried that we cant fully strip armor as at least now we can deal with armor but fully striping it if need be. this could lead lead to some toxic behavior targeted at people who don't bring cp in a group because we cant fully strip so the extra armor reduction might be needed. sure DE says they think the numbers will be good but remember when oberon was reworked and his one couldn't kill a lvl one heavy gunner? the number aren't always good.