2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh: Part 2!

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Just now, (PS4)Silencer_Tinman said:

Does this mean [Shield Disruption] will work on Eidolons now that your reworking the Aura balance?

lmao, not likely.  That aura has always been a complete joke and it's laughable that they think it needs a nerf.  It's one of the only nerfs I don't care about since no one trying to play effectively uses it anyway.

[Jangong]

Is it still possible to ship it on PC today?@[DE]Rebecca

[Beelzebabe]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Magus Elevate

On Rank 5: On Transference In:

95% chance to restore 300 Health to Warframe

 

Just make this 100% chance for 300 health as it should be, honestly, changing it to a truly guaranteed heal vs a basically guaranteed heal isn't gamebreaking in the slightest and that 5% chance to not proc is of zero actual consequence, having to be like "ugh, ok, I need to press 5 again" every 1/20 Elevate attempts isn't meaningful, it's just annoyance for annoyance sake

[RoachyToasty]

14 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

Ok release it now!!!

[Emperrier]

Please add a mod that reinstates self-damage.

I mean ideally, don't ruin a weapon class for the people who like it to cater to the complaints of people who don't. But, unlike the people who refused to let the existence of Cautious Shot get in the way of their whining, I'm capable of compromise.

[Rankii]

I wonder how Destiny 2's doing...

[zonedout44]

7 hours ago, FoxyKabam said:

valkyrs not on the list, so hes not the only one

(not that she needs an armor buff)

She may not need an armor buff, but she needs a lot of help everywhere else. She was one of my most played frames early on, but now I barely use her. No one else does either, it seems 😞

[r2in]

so many nerf and terrible decisions. im tired of it.

this time i feel like i wanna quit this game for real.

[MunsuLight]

il y a 15 minutes, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

 

Thanks god..

Now time to go back to the 50% Radial Damage falloff or no falloff at all. 90% just kill the AoE part of the AoE weapon. Why dont your team understand we are in a horde shooter. You did say you wanted to be conservative, but 50% is conservative enough. Also remove the damn stagger from the other AoE weapon.. 

[mikakor]

2 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

Thanks god..

Now time to go back to the 50% Radial Damage falloff or no falloff at all. 90% just kill the AoE part of the AoE weapon. Why dont your team understand we are in a horde shooter. You did say you wanted to be conservative, but 50% is conservative enough. Also remove the damn stagger from the other AoE weapon.. 

also add back the 20 per cent damage buff. they do indeed do not seems to understand what is the point of an AoE weapon... it's pretty sad.  make sure to complain on the feedback thread planned for this once it drops. the next days will be absolutely crucial to make sure that they get rid of this archaic idea. if they want AoE weapons to be S#&$e, they can straight up say so, and we would stop even fighting, there would be no point. but for now, we have to fight back against such... "game design" as much as it hurts to call this kind of decision game design.

[Rankii]

1 minute ago, r2in said:

so many nerf and terrible decisions. im tired of it.

this time i feel i wanna quit this for real.

Seriously. I'm getting mixed signals under the inch-thick layer of bad ideas here.

"We want to make the game easier, so we removed the punishment for using AoE weapons"

"We don't want anyone to actually do anything with the wepaons, so we nerfed the S#&$ out of everything."

Unless the new frame is completely bombastic (it wont' be), then 2020 is looking to be a pretty big bust already.

[Cyro_Valithum]

Thanks! These armor changes are a good bump to the survival of or squishy frames. The status changes look like a good rebalance too though there's a few things that I'd like to touch on, mainly impact. The only thing so far that scares me about this main line is the impact ragdoll, unless the enemy gains some vulnerability while knocked down this could be very annoying. 2nd Viral may be too good and just become the new corrosive, will have to wait and see. 3rd magnetic will be more necessary thanks to sheild buffs for corpus, but it'd be nice if it did better damage or had another effect to other unshielded tagets. Like a 2 or 3 second weapon jam when you hit max stacks.

P.S. Thanks for your work on all these changes and balances. It must be a lot of work, but me and my friends are super happy you're adjusting the enemy scaling in particular and like most of the other changes. Also sorry for how many others are either yelling or insulting you guys instead of being civil and constructive with their arguments. Once again thanks and keep up the good work.

[Autumnatopoeia]

Quote

No damage buffs have been added, but any weapons with AOE are receiving ~20% increase in Radius. Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. This means on the very outer section of the explosion Radius 10% of the Damage will be dealt. Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno. 

So removing self damage at the cost of having any use for explosive weapons entirely. Got it.

[-Kittens-]

7 hours ago, Sauravisus said:

No armor buff for Nidus who cannot take advantage of shield gating, because he literally has no shields? For shame.

Shame he only has infinite regen, death grace, 95% DR on demand and a metric ass ton of armor to help his meager survival; if only he could use umbral mods like excalibur to save him.

Never change warframe forums, never change.

 

[Kalvorax]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Arcanes will require 21 Arcanes to reach the new Max Rank of 5. Scarlet Spear will feature a buy-what-you-want shop for Arcanes based on the currency earned in the event. It will launch in March shortly after the Mainline. 

i HOPE to god that arcanes are a easier to get for those of us that DO NOT want to spend a ton of plat or hunt eidolons (especially since it is STILL not a way to do it at any time :|) in particular due to the need for 21 arcanes for a max rank arcane now 😐

[-Kittens-]

Just now, Autumnatopoeia said:

So removing self damage at the cost of having any use for explosive weapons entirely. Got it.

Can you try being more transparent in your greed? They may not get it being so subtle and all.

[Siyovott]

Hoo-boy...To put it simply, you cannot ship this. Not in this state. It's just not ready.

Remember that enemies in warframe, unlike tenno can actually scale infinitely (which is a topic I would like to touch on another time). Reducing the scaling rate of armor will not change that, as the main issue is damage. Corrossive should stay as is.

For anyone who watched Rahetalius' video on damage 2.5 you will know what I am about to refer to.

Do NOT for ANY reason add RAGDOLLING to impact super procs. Make them an AOE STUN INSTEAD. Additionally, incoming damage on enemies with said impact proc can have their shield gating negated, putting more emphasis on impact excceeding in performance against shields.

Puncture is meant to PIERCE. A debuff on an enemy that reduces their damage. A better idea would be for the proc to chip away at base armor every time it procs. For every time a puncture proc stacks, 

Blast will be better off blinding enemies instead of the accuracy reduction you had in mind.

I also noticed you have an opportunity to make cold procs stack to a point of completely freezing the enemy similar to how frost's avalanche does so. I strongly recommend you do so.

My attention was caught by how some of the arcanes have rank 3 status on their rank 5. I hope that wasn't intentional, otherwise it will stuff you in a real pickle.

Accorind to me and another person out there, the last viable self-damaging weapon released was in fact the Kuva Bramma. Nearing its relevancy would be the Lenz of the energy lab. The rest are absolutely not worth using whatsoever, while those that are, usually get looked over for better options, such as the Shedu and Tombfinger. Adding a blast radius fall of that is up to NINETY percent is not exactly a good idea here, because the constant damage in an area was one of the core reasons people had put up with said self-damage. They will still have a significant penalty for firing too close, so a damage decrease with radius ought to be no greater than 20%. On a related note: Please for the love of the void DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT PUTTING SELF-STAGGER ON THE BLOODY POX. 

Finally, about the aura changes...(Unless you plan on buffing those, in particular, corrossive projection to 34% per aura mod.) Just don't. Simply don't. Hands off the keyboard and mouse and take not a single breath with that thought in your head.

 

Bonus: I would also like you to take a look at reliability of Inaros' revival portion of his passive, using the one Nidus has as a benchmark.

To anyone who read this, thank you. I'm waving at you. Be well. 

[mikakor]

1 minute ago, Autumnatopoeia said:

So removing self damage at the cost of having any use for explosive weapons entirely. Got it.

 

4 minutes ago, Rankii said:

Seriously. I'm getting mixed signals under the inch-thick layer of bad ideas here.

"We want to make the game easier, so we removed the punishment for using AoE weapons"

"We don't want anyone to actually do anything with the wepaons, so we nerfed the S#&$ out of everything."

Unless the new frame is completely bombastic (it wont' be), then 2020 is looking to be a pretty big bust already.

remember to come to the feedback thread they will post once it drops.

funny that they hold off the most controversial changes until the very last minute. much coincidence! 😮

[Rankii]

Just now, Autumnatopoeia said:

So removing self damage at the cost of having any use for explosive weapons entirely. Got it.

I kept saying this would happen: if you remove the punishment, the use for the weapon goes with it.

 

Just now, -Kittens- said:

Can you try being more transparent in your greed? They may not get it being so subtle and all.

Namecalling isn't making him any less right, though.

[Brasten]

Self Damage penalty, AoE weapon Damage Reduction

The 90% damage fall-off seems excessively harsh. And radically changes the function of most AoE weapons. The PROBLEM that this is trying to address, point blank AoE spam, can be addressed differently.

 Instead of reducing damage based on the AoE, reduce the damage based on the Self-Stagger. Using the distance of the Tenno to impact point, instead other Impact point to all enemies. If you are shooting Tonkors and Orgis at your feet, the overall damage should be reduce 90%. This disincentives point blank AoEs even more. You get Stagger, and do basically no damage.

From a programming stand this is an almost free calculation, as the distance from the Tenno to the Impact is already needed for the Self-Stagger.

Please, don't nerf AoE damage across the board. Just nerf the damage when a Tenno shoots rockets at their own feet.

[mikakor]

1 minute ago, Rankii said:

if you remove the punishment

cept they didn't removed it, they changed it. but then added a nerf as massive as the #*!%ing sun. they just do not want players to use AoE weapons, period. not with design decision THIS bad.

[Asdelno]

Hi Rebb, thanks for the update.

I have a question though. When you explain the stacking nature of the new status system, it wasn't clear for me if the stacking occur naturally (by having a weapon with reliable status chance, like 80%) or by the new "over-chance" new mechanic of over 100%.

In both cases, I love the idea and as you mentioned, this gives status a place to play in the game outside of the armor striping only option. The idea of blasting a squat of Grineer with the grenade of the Corinth and messing up their head for the blast making them lose accuracy sounds super fun and leave the stagger for impact, which is nice by itself.

I'm looking forward to the status change myself. Thank for the hard work.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

50 minutes ago, Valfaun said:

. with the update, you might be able to spam them more mindlessly, but the huge 90% radial falloff sounds... devastating

of course, we'll see how everything plays out, but it seems likely that further adjustments and revisions will have to be made

It's possible to understand via mathematics what effect it has on the weapon's overall efficacy.  I'll spare you the calculations, however all of the AoE weapons are getting nerfed on their overall damage output, many massively.  I have zero trust that DE simply hasn't done, or can't do the math on this, so it's intentional.

And you know what?  The lower the radius of the weapon, the worse the nerf.  Look at Cyanex.  It's pathetic 0.5m radius already doesn't hit additional enemies unless some sort of CC pushed them into literally touching.  Raising that to 0.6m and nerfing the damage at the outside of that by 90%?  Why even pretend that the Cyanex has AoE at all?  Turns out that enemies have area too, and that area can only take damage once from the AoE, even if it fills nearly the entire AoE.

[Rankii]

Just now, mikakor said:

cept they didn't removed it, they changed it. but then added a nerf as massive as the #*!%ing sun. they just do not want players to use AoE weapons, period. not with design decision THIS bad.

No they removed it. I refuse to believe that little animation, that can be jumped out of halfway through, is a fair trade off removing self-damage. If someone is stupid enough to fire a rocket launcher at point-blank range, then they should have the punishment of having to use a revive. And on top of that there's already a bandaid mod. Just make that compatible with the bramma so the people without eyes can play too and NOT cause the nerfing of my favorite breadbox launcher.

[-Kittens-]

5 minutes ago, Rankii said:

I kept saying this would happen: if you remove the punishment, the use for the weapon goes with it.

 

Namecalling isn't making him any less right, though.

There's no name calling involved, but I do appreciate the baseless virtue signal.

 

Explosive weapons do hundreds of K in damage and three of them can reach 100% status, and four of them can reach around 4-7x crit, which is more than enough damage to literally vaporize anything on the star chart that currently exists, and all but one has more more than enough fire rate to ignore boss damage gating so you can just mash the fire button til you're done, and not even consider what the boss does for offense or defense.

Maybe you should take a long look at your intent, because A there are three other people in your squad also playing the game, and B six and seven figure crits are enough BEEG NUMBAR, as heavy melee has shown rather handily. There's fixing long standing issues and then there's wanting the tile set to yourself, and I hate to break it to you, they aren't as intrinsically entwined as you consider them to be.

Thanks to pexilus, any radial can now have infinite ammo and you can decide via mods how big the radial is.