Self Damage - Revert Changes to Sonicor and Staticor.

[Aesthier]

If it didn't have self damage before it shouldn't have been included in self stagger now.

^ Thats all.

[FluterTree]

17 minutes ago, Aesthier said:

If it didn't have self damage before it shouldn't have been included in self stagger now.

^ Thats all.

they wanted the staticor to have self damage and it did at somepoint but it turned out to be quite bad for the weapon. so they reverted it. hopeful they will revert it so it doesnt knock you down when your using it normaly since its a secondery not a primary afterall

[moondog548]

Yeah seems like each weapon needs an individual look at its range, radius, and damage.  The fundamental concept of bundling self-stagger with aoe damage is fine, but requires much more precise tuning.

Sonicor in particular has the special case that its projectile only travels so far.  It's a tiny window of usability between self-stagger and the projectile literally vanishing.  That's on top of the fact that it's unusable at short range because the self-stagger does *in practice* more harm to the player than the enemies around them.

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by moondog548

[Andele3025]

On 2020-03-05 at 10:50 PM, Zhuinden said:

EDIT: ah, now I use Handspring on ALL of my frames and now the game is fun again

Just as a BTW, Primed Sure Footed got buffed to give 100% stagger resist AND bug fixed to be true 100% knockback resist without a cancer block animation taking 4 days, so if you can fit it, its pure noice.

[Aftcrest]

9 hours ago, moondog548 said:

Sonicor in particular has the special case that its projectile only travels so far.

Not only that, the shots also bounce. So if you weren't in it's blast radius, but it hits a object or wall, it can put you right back into it's range for a stagger.

[LKG01A_Duke]

ok, seriously not going to complain here DE, i appreciate the time and effort put into the game to add new content and fix bugs... when i heared the annoncement of the new patch removing self damage as i was honestly hoping for self damage to be toned down because it was making some weapons like ogris, kulstar and afew others annoying to play/use because you would frequently kill yourself with it if enemies got too close or certain annoying players keep jumping infront of you at the last second. i like the fact that self damage is removed as it makes some weapons more barable to play and at the same time make weapons like staticor that DONT deal self damage being nerfed with a slege-hammer as i keep getting either staggered or sent flying by my own weapon...
i m not asking alot here but please, please remove that mechanic on weapons that dont deal self damage. thank you DE

[Sylonus]

On 2020-03-07 at 11:40 PM, Nonagon_Ninja said:

My Staticor is completely ruined!

It is unplayable in its new state; nearly every shot sends me to the ground and all but a tiny remaining fraction of its damage capabilities have been rendered inert. And, my consolation prize is that after 600 or 900 login's I may get to use this again with Primed Sure Footed?

The real damage by these changes is my trust in DE as a player.

My Staticor represents hundreds of hours of gameplay (polarizing/resetting, collecting mods, collecting endo, collecting Kuva, running the Index for credits) and purchased platinum to buy Catalysts and trade for Staticor specific Rivens. And, in a single update, all of the time and effort I put into buying, trading, and crafting this into my favorite weapon was completely undone, and, I am left with impotent, well forma'd, garbage.

I spent half the day today, playing through the new changes and running relics to finish getting parts for a Tigris Prime.  I have wanted to get that gun since I started playing Warframe in 2018, and, I've been very excited to try and get this ever since it was un-vaulted earlier this month.  After finally getting all the pieces this afternoon and queuing my Tigris prime up in the foundry, I started looking at what Rivens I could get and how much forma I would need to make this gun a force to be reckoned with!  

Then, looking at my very broken Staticor, it hit me.  Why?  What would be the point?  I will spend hundreds of hours building a Tigris Prime into the gun I want it to be... And then what?  Some future rework will make it so that every time I fire my Tigris Prime I will get blown across the room?  And, then only way it will do the damage it used to will be to get so close I have to practically insert the barrel in a Grineer's mouth before I fire?

The intentional decay of all the time and effort I have put into my weapons absolutely ruins this game for me.  If all the time I spend grinding, collecting, trading, and updating can, and have, been undone by my benevolent overlords on any given weekend without cause or compensation...then why should I put in effort or plat into any of it in the first place?

We have had good run.  Up until now, this has been my favorite game.  I have played at least an hour or so every day ever since I started.  I enjoyed TennoCon last year, and I was looking forward to it again this year (I had such plans for Baro this time).  But, at this point I don't have the trust to put anymore time into this.  I am uninstalling and leaving 1000's in purchased plat, my primes, and my now nerfed weapons to collect digital dust on DE's servers.

So long Tenno, and thanks for all the fish!

This, I miss my my spin to win Whips, I miss my Catchmoon, they just nerfed Saryn and will probably nerf her more. All the AoE weapons are nerfed into the ground, (Sure, self-damage removal is nice, but not at the cost of this horrible falloff... and even the ones who didn't have self damage, like sonicor/staticor or were extremely unlikely to self damage like the Corinth.) They nerfed Guardian, and Grace grace in some situations... it just makes me feel, what's the point, of working on all of this if they're just going to take it away. I get it, they want the meta to change, to shake things up and not have one thing be good all the time... But they always talk about valuing player's time, it's a bit hypocritical, they don't want to nerf the Hema's grind, or things like that because they don't want to disrespect people's time investment. But these nerfs not only disrespect our time building things, they literally take our tools away from us, and they feel much, much worse.

[(XBOX)Edge HM]

I've been using the staticor for years now. I started because the flavor text suggested mega buster, and then the experience was more dragon ball. They ruled. Then they made it so you gotta charge them for them to be effective and that was fine, I was fine with that. Now every shot knocks my Zephyr for a loop and for the first time I'm considering shelving them and looking into alternatives. And... was that the point? Force me to hang up the staticor and actually look at the other secondaries? I had a pretty good catchmoon, but apparently that's been nerfed too so I'm not sure what to do now. I don't like this, even uncharged shots stagger, and the worst part was worrying I was messing up other players, but the blast radius only knocks me on my butt and kills mobs, so... I guess thanks for small mercies. Still a pain to use, like having a gun with recoil that knocks you over with every shot... which would be cool if it hadn't wrecked my favorite secondary.

[devildevil21]

When people say staticor is fine after the nerf clearly don't use staticor or use it with warframes that have permanent status immunity.

 

We're talking about a 9,6m charge radius attack and a 11m stagger radius! How the heck does the wep have a lower attack radius than a stagger radius?! That's balanced?! I'll repeat myself from other threads: The only thing that makes sense for staticor is to have a stagger radius of 4,3m which is half of the charged attack radius

Edited March 18, 2020 by devildevil21

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, devildevil21 said:

When people say staticor is fine after the nerf clearly don't use staticor or use it with warframes that have permanent status immunity.

Or they're not using the charged shots much, especially not at short range.  Which I'd guess is pretty common, considering how much more effective, generally speaking, the uncharged shots were even before stagger was introduced.

It's funny really that the much less powerful--but IMO much more fun--mode got hit with a much larger nerf.   It's like two fields got mixed up on their spreadsheet, or they forgot to incorporate charge time into their calcuation for Staticor.

 

[(PSN)Soul_o-O_Eater]

Sonicor used to be the get away gun. Bullet jumping through crowds and rag dolling everything. It wasnt much of a damage dealer. Now what is it? 

 

[K-68]

I remember that one time staticor had self damage for a day or two...

 

[WreckitRaf]

At this rate, I'm surprised they didn't also add a stagger effect on Pox's AOE damage. smh.

I hope the no self-damage weapons would get their "non-stagger ability" back.

[Grethorian]

most fun low level weapon is now completly useless, this needs to be fixed
its not like some patch that lowers the damage from imba to medium, its a weapon that hits you now harder than the enemys

 

[Imustscream]

I did eidolons today after a long time, got a nasty surprise. The staticor WAS great for the adds. I would shoot down and the massive falloff would take the shells off Vomvalysts without fully destroying them. Even the catch moon lacks the 360 damage this gun gave me. Its great for charging lures! ... up until today.

I just kept smacking myself in the face with my own elbow and the falloff was negligible. I had so much fun and I felt so proud of my way of dealing with the Vom problem, but now the staticor has been stripped of everything that made it special and reduced to mastery fodder. I thought DE loved working niches into this game, but staticor is shamed for working its specialty.

Why is this gun being punished for having radial damage? What's the point of radial damage at all if it feels like a punishment rather than a tool? It never had self damage before, so it shouldn't punish me for using its uniqueness to its full intent.

For a while now, it feels like this game is no puzzling and all grind. Screw you if you think through a problem and find a faster way to overcome it.

[Marabar]

       Putting self stagger on a cc weapon makes it worthless.  It would be comparable to having Vauban's Bastille trapping himself; you literally sign your death warrant when you go to use it.  It sounds bad on paper and it's worse in execution.  This needs to be changed.

[Draakjuh]

I hope someone from DE follows this thread as this is quite a serious issue, i had to do a pistol only mission today and pretty much got knockbacked all over the map, i've spent more time rolling than killing... this pretty much removed every single possible bit of fun, is there no quality testing being done after such big changes?

[Guano_Fiend]

Can we have the Forma back we invested in the weapons please, DE? To be honest I won't spending any more money on the game and ignoring any further Platinum offers if they keep this type of thing up. It's an absolute waste of time. I've been sticking up for the game when I see certain complaints coming up on places like YouTube if I think it's just bandwaggon moaning. Sod that now, I wish a pleasant  lunch to them.

[Neurohax]

The stagger mechanic is simply the biggest fun killer in a game I've ever seen.

First it was my favorite weapon, the Staticor. Absolutely loved it and it's completely useless now. Now, with it being added to the Shraksun scaffold on every shot, I think I'm done for at least a few months. Maybe a syndicate grind mission here or there, but I'm sure I'll fall off the game in relatively short time.

The awesome mobility and movement scheme is one of the defining characteristics of Warframe, along with cultivating that feeling of being a powerful hero. The contrast with the staggering mechanic is so stark that it breaks immersion completely. And it happens so frequently that you're not playing a game, but fighting the game itself as you try to discover how to make it fun again, before inevitably giving up on that whole aspect of gameplay.

So, you shelve a weapon (Staticor). Then a system (Liches, Eidolons, Arcanes). Then a set of missions (Railjack, Lich controlled). Eventually, you're just running away from everything and wondering why you bother to play if it means navigating the minefield every time. New content comes out and you know it'll be broken at launch (or at the very least completely different from its state in 3 months), so there's zero draw to engage.

At least that's how I feel right now. I'm very disappointed.

EDIT: Looks like my thread got merged, even though the thing that inspired it was the stagger on Shraksun amps. Removing stagger from the Staticor isn't going to make Eidolon hunting tolerable again. That was the only semi-fun focus grind for me (ESO isn't my bag), so no progress on focus, which means no spoiler-mode progress, so fewer gameplay styles will be opened up, so no point in continuing to grind. Whatever.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Neurohax
thread merged into one that covers half the issues

[George_PPS]

If it works, don’t change it. DE likes to destroy it and and rebuild it with something much worse. 

[George_PPS]

On 2020-03-15 at 11:21 AM, Sylonus said:

This, I miss my my spin to win Whips, I miss my Catchmoon, they just nerfed Saryn and will probably nerf her more. All the AoE weapons are nerfed into the ground, (Sure, self-damage removal is nice, but not at the cost of this horrible falloff... and even the ones who didn't have self damage, like sonicor/staticor or were extremely unlikely to self damage like the Corinth.) They nerfed Guardian, and Grace grace in some situations... it just makes me feel, what's the point, of working on all of this if they're just going to take it away. I get it, they want the meta to change, to shake things up and not have one thing be good all the time... But they always talk about valuing player's time, it's a bit hypocritical, they don't want to nerf the Hema's grind, or things like that because they don't want to disrespect people's time investment. But these nerfs not only disrespect our time building things, they literally take our tools away from us, and they feel much, much worse.

I felt exactly the same after that terrible Update 26 was rolled out. DE lost all my trust and Warframe is no longer the game. 

[George_PPS]

On 2020-03-17 at 11:22 PM, (XB1)Edge HM said:

I've been using the staticor for years now. I started because the flavor text suggested mega buster, and then the experience was more dragon ball. They ruled. Then they made it so you gotta charge them for them to be effective and that was fine, I was fine with that. Now every shot knocks my Zephyr for a loop and for the first time I'm considering shelving them and looking into alternatives. And... was that the point? Force me to hang up the staticor and actually look at the other secondaries? I had a pretty good catchmoon, but apparently that's been nerfed too so I'm not sure what to do now. I don't like this, even uncharged shots stagger, and the worst part was worrying I was messing up other players, but the blast radius only knocks me on my butt and kills mobs, so... I guess thanks for small mercies. Still a pain to use, like having a gun with recoil that knocks you over with every shot... which would be cool if it hadn't wrecked my favorite secondary.

DE destroyed way more weapons and unique/fun mechanics than most players realize. Who in DE came up with all these terrible ideas, bad changes and fluidity killing animations? This person needs to be fired. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by George_PPS

[ES-Flinter]

Sonicor shouldn't have the drawback of self-knockdown. It's only for CC and it's to weak to kill enemies over Sortir level.

Staticor can keep it. The last time I used them (~1year) they were capable to shred a group of lv. 150 eximus bombard in a few seconds. 

[(XBOX)Edge HM]

10 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

Sonicor shouldn't have the drawback of self-knockdown. It's only for CC and it's to weak to kill enemies over Sortir level.

Staticor can keep it. The last time I used them (~1year) they were capable to shred a group of lv. 150 eximus bombard in a few seconds. 

I've never been able to get them to do that. There was a time when they were bugged to have their full charge blast on uncharged shots. They were really effective then, but that got patched out.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb (XB1)Edge HM:

I've never been able to get them to do that. There was a time when they were bugged to have their full charge blast on uncharged shots. They were really effective then, but that got patched out.

I tested it in the simulacrum and this was the result.

Spoiler

 

And my only question is now, if you all are joking or are you serious. Because the Staticor perform more than just well enough to deserve self-knockdown. Sure it's not a kuva Bramma, but still very good/ strong.