Lets be real: we're not space ninjas.

[(PSN)Vodka_Vision_]

Being a space ninja would require actually good stealth mechanics. We're just super soldiers, and that's okay. We should embrace that. I think if we can acknowledge that the game has evolved past space ninjas into super soldiers, we can allow for greater specialization. Having defined roles would help clear things up, and streamline gameplay. I think that empowering tanks to tank, DPS to DPS, and support to support would encourage team building and squad cooperation more than having everyone try to be completely self sufficient. I think FFXIV did a fantastic job of differentiating roles. If warframe could manage someting similar, I think they could introduce harder content with more complex enemies and mechanics.

[Zsword]

We're not super soldiers. We're space ninja themed super soldiers with random other themes.

[Cpurdy777]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

Being a space ninja would require actually good stealth mechanics. We're just super soldiers, and that's okay. We should embrace that. I think if we can acknowledge that the game has evolved past space ninjas into super soldiers, we can allow for greater specialization. Having defined roles would help clear things up, and streamline gameplay. I think that empowering tanks to tank, DPS to DPS, and support to support would encourage team building and squad cooperation more than having everyone try to be completely self sufficient. I think FFXIV did a fantastic job of differentiating roles. If warframe could manage someting similar, I think they could introduce harder content with more complex enemies and mechanics.

You can already do pretty much all that, it's just that none of it is really necessary to do any of the game's hardest content, even less so to do the game's most rewarding content. Also, it's hard to put in ability based specialization for the purpose of doing hard content when most of the hard parts of hard content are things that flat out ignore abilities, like arbi drones, nullifiers, eidolons, and liches.

[(PSN)Vodka_Vision_]

1 minute ago, Zsword said:

We're not super soldiers. We're space ninja themed super soldiers with random other themes.

No. Tank frames can act as super soldiers with no ninja capabilities. I recently solo'd a rank 5 lich, with Oberon Prime and even the lvl 100+ enemies couldn't make me give a darn about positioning, status, or anything besides keeping up Renewal and my ammo. We're ninjas the same way that Captain America is a ninja.

[(PSN)Vodka_Vision_]

1 minute ago, Cpurdy777 said:

You can already do pretty much all that, it's just that none of it is really necessary to do any of the game's hardest content, even less so to do the game's most rewarding content. Also, it's hard to put in ability based specialization for the purpose of doing hard content when most of the hard parts of hard content are things that flat out ignore abilities, like arbi drones, nullifiers, eidolons, and liches.

That's exactly my point. The hardest content should rely on teamwork and abilities. The tank frames should be tanking and stealing agro from the DPS and support frames in high level content. It shouldn't be a pure gear check, the way it is now. Not in any kind of MMO that wants defined roles. Inaros should need a Trinity to do the hardest content in the game. Trinity should be squishy AF, and need to constantly heal a tank on the hardest content. Mirage and Chroma should need to rely on tanks and support frames to survive the hardest content. 

 

This isn't to say that a full squad should be necessary for every node on the star chart, but I shouldn't be able to solo a survival Arbitration for 1hr. If DE wants to encourage teamwork, they need to define roles more clearly. If DE wants warframe to be a horde looter shooter, then they can continue as is, but in devstreams and in new content, they continually mention their desire for more teamwork and cooperation. Making every frame capable of soloing the hardest content is not the way to do that. They need to choose between horde shooter and team oriented MMORPG. Unfortunately, they cannot have it both ways.

[Sahiratu]

Just to have a different opinion, I love systems like Guild Wars 2, where you can do certain roles better but every job can be self suficient if they want to... they still have dungeons and raids and some rly hard contents. I play FFXIV (for the story) and I hate this kind of "holy trinity", not sure if they did a great job because there's no real customization at all on character skills nor stats , every class from the same role feel the same.

I don't like forced cooperation and I love the fact that Warframe let people solo if they want or play as a group - if they want.

Having Warframe to become another old trinity stucked with class archetypes like wow or ffxiv would be a quit for me. There's already plenty of games like this... so nop, thanks. I would love if they could implement some kind of customization on skills, like augmented mods do tho.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Sahiratu

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Yea, I'm not a ninja....I'm a corporate shill for a resource collecting military-industrial complex lol.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Let's be real - you cannot tag Tenno in one category alone. Be it space ninza, super soldier or anything else. We are a bit of everything. 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

That's exactly my point. The hardest content should rely on teamwork and abilities. The tank frames should be tanking and stealing agro from the DPS and support frames in high level content. It shouldn't be a pure gear check, the way it is now. Not in any kind of MMO that wants defined roles. Inaros should need a Trinity to do the hardest content in the game. Trinity should be squishy AF, and need to constantly heal a tank on the hardest content. Mirage and Chroma should need to rely on tanks and support frames to survive the hardest content. 

 

This isn't to say that a full squad should be necessary for every node on the star chart, but I shouldn't be able to solo a survival Arbitration for 1hr. If DE wants to encourage teamwork, they need to define roles more clearly. If DE wants warframe to be a horde looter shooter, then they can continue as is, but in devstreams and in new content, they continually mention their desire for more teamwork and cooperation. Making every frame capable of soloing the hardest content is not the way to do that. They need to choose between horde shooter and team oriented MMORPG. Unfortunately, they cannot have it both ways.

A lot of people have played a lot of those games. I remember always having to play support roles because everyone wanted to dps. 

 

[Cpurdy777]

Just now, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

That's exactly my point. The hardest content should rely on teamwork and abilities. The tank frames should be tanking and stealing agro from the DPS and support frames in high level content. It shouldn't be a pure gear check, the way it is now. Not in any kind of MMO that wants defined roles. Inaros should need a Trinity to do the hardest content in the game. Trinity should be squishy AF, and need to constantly heal a tank on the hardest content. Mirage and Chroma should need to rely on tanks and support frames to survive the hardest content. 

 

This isn't to say that a full squad should be necessary for every node on the star chart, but I shouldn't be able to solo a survival Arbitration for 1hr. If DE wants to encourage teamwork, they need to define roles more clearly. If DE wants warframe to be a horde looter shooter, then they can continue as is, but in devstreams and in new content, they continually mention their desire for more teamwork and cooperation. Making every frame capable of soloing the hardest content is not the way to do that. They need to choose between horde shooter and team oriented MMORPG. Unfortunately, they cannot have it both ways.

I disagree tbh, I'd still like it to be viable to play solo or without optimized roles, but actually have an incentive, be it in ease of playing or in ability to do harder content (which right now doesn't really have rewards to justify,) to play with people with somewhat defined roles. It is still a horde shooter where everyone needs to be able to blow things up and feel like they impactful, rather than standing behind other players spamming a heal/buff/tank ability, so I don't know how defined these roles can really be.

[Kyronz]

technically we are registered losers, but that not mean we can't still pretend 😄

[Yamazuki]

Depends on what you consider a "Ninja", are you referring to the made up Ninja stories where they're mysteriously invisible? Or do you mean actual Ninjas, that did multiple things ranging from assassinations, sabotaging the enemy, gathering information (and giving up false information), as well as essentially being for hire soldiers that just didn't have to follow any rules, or any sort of "honor codes"? If so, that's essentially what Tenno are.

 

[nslay]

No, we're space captains. We pilot underdog/inferior space ships to victory.

[Sahiratu]

Just now, nslay said:

No, we're space captains. We pilot underdog/inferior space ships to victory.

This ^LOL

[(PSN)Vodka_Vision_]

1 minute ago, Cpurdy777 said:

I disagree tbh, I'd still like it to be viable to play solo or without optimized roles, but actually have an incentive, be it in ease of playing or in ability to do harder content (which right now doesn't really have rewards to justify,) to play with people with somewhat defined roles. It is still a horde shooter where everyone needs to be able to blow things up and feel like they impactful, rather than standing behind other players spamming a heal/buff/tank ability, so I don't know how defined these roles can really be.

I completely understand that. It's hard to find the right balance between defined roles, and neutering player's ability to solo content, but I think DE could work on defining roles a bit better. I'm not after wholesale FFXIV role locking, but just a few buffs to things like Guardian Derision (can't even pull aggro in arbitrations, reported as a bug, but DE hasn't addressed it), and reworking the tank and support frames to incentivize them to tank and support.

[nslay]

1 minute ago, Sahiratu said:

This ^LOL

Railjack reminds me of Down Periscope, a mildly funny comedy film about a dude that partakes in a rigged war game where he captains a WWII submarine against nuclear submarines and cruisers.

[(PSN)Vodka_Vision_]

3 minutes ago, nslay said:

No, we're space captains. We pilot underdog/inferior space ships to victory.

We pilot Littoral combat ships on missions designed for frigates and higher class ships. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littoral_combat_ship

(tl;dr Littoral combat ships are cruiser sized warships with a greater skill range than cruisers.)

[RX-3DR]

Enforcing roles is a massive downer on design. You either have a Mesa situation where their entire role has to be completely derived from a single ability, reducing that frame to really just revolving around a single gimmick. Or you have a Trinity situation where all 4 abilities are tilted towards a singular role, resulting in a one-function boring design.

In a game of variety and choice, it would be really boring. It would reduce the decision process on using frames to down to a single choice of playing to win or playing for fun as opposed to the current model where you have more than just a single role to consider. Oberon is a great example of this where the reason you use Oberon is not because healer, but because he offers a good mix of defensive and offensive options over Trinity.

[(PSN)Vodka_Vision_]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

I completely understand that. It's hard to find the right balance between defined roles, and neutering player's ability to solo content, but I think DE could work on defining roles a bit better. I'm not after wholesale FFXIV role locking, but just a few buffs to things like Guardian Derision (can't even pull aggro in arbitrations, reported as a bug, but DE hasn't addressed it), and reworking the tank and support frames to incentivize them to tank and support.

 

3 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Enforcing roles is a massive downer on design. You either have a Mesa situation where their entire role has to be completely derived from a single ability, reducing that frame to really just revolving around a single gimmick. Or you have a Trinity situation where all 4 abilities are tilted towards a singular role, resulting in a one-function boring design.

In a game of variety and choice, it would be really boring. It would reduce the decision process on using frames to down to a single choice of playing to win or playing for fun as opposed to the current model where you have more than just a single role to consider. Oberon is a great example of this where the reason you use Oberon is not because healer, but because he offers a good mix of defensive and offensive options over Trinity.

 

[schilds]

Space magicians.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Vodka_Vision_ said:

We pilot Littoral combat ships on missions designed for frigates and higher class ships. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littoral_combat_ship

(tl;dr Littoral combat ships are cruiser sized warships with a greater skill range than cruisers.)

...I thought Railjacks were supposed to be the biggest and best of Orokin tech, grand warships used in the war against the mothman frigging Sentients? Guess I missed a memo somewhere xD

[AzureTerra]

What if we stopped over thinking a catchy tag line.

[(XBOX)ERICK001BC]

I always felt more like a farmer.... 

[Redfeather75]

I'm a space ninja. I throw space shurikens and use space smoke bombs to space escape.

[EoR_SolusCaeles]

1 hour ago, --C--Nehra said:

We are a bit of everything. 

Mostly space farmers