Play OUR way.

[Moraiel]

While most games give you a set of abilities and let you go and use them in the best way you can, DE now totally shuns this mentality. If we are not doing the content in the exact way they want, which seems to be play Inaros - melee/shoot gun, we all know to expect the nerf hammer to come down.

Players using Nova/Octavia in a cool way to get P1 Exploiter Orb done quickly, nope we don't want you playing that way. Using Limbo (was anyone really using Khora to heal Op-Link?) to make Scarlet Spear easier, nope we can't have you doing that.

I honestly feel sorry for the team that spends time designing and balancing Warframe abilities, their work is just a waste of time, when DE doesn't want us to use these abilities, and just play Inaros all the time.

[AzureTerra]

Then play Inaros all the time, its your choice to after all, i'll be over here playing with my selection of frames to do things i like.

[Moraiel]

4 minutes ago, AzureTerra said:

Then play Inaros all the time, its your choice to after all, i'll be over here playing with my selection of frames to do things i like.

Yea, until they make those things no longer affect enemies, as they have been doing.

[MagPrime]

...yes, Inaros is the only Warframe that you can take into all content.

No other Warframe

[Shinobu_Scorpion]

I don't know about you, but I'm still playing my way and doing just fine. Stop overreacting.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

The hunt for RJ parts really annoyed me that my abilities were worthless. When you had to tag the parts and then defend them.  The enemy just ignored all cc/defense abilities.

Buffing the Hemocyt to counter Ember's old 3 was lame.   

[AzureTerra]

47 minutes ago, Moraiel said:

Yea, until they make those things no longer affect enemies, as they have been doing.

Which may eventually happen who knows but the thing is that you can enjoy what you know works now (and then whine bitterly on the forums when its changed maybe)

Some things have been changed after a period of play and its like the sky is falling to some people. Without knowing DE's reasoning for any changes (and i believe its often better for the players to not know why something happen because most of them are not in the scope of the player needing to know) things quite often slip through the cracks of what was intended or not for any given thing to do. Why was X not changed faster, possibly because X was not a priority or was not being exploited in a manner that wasn't intended until Y condition was found. The player-base of any game excels at finding the weakest link of anything (As much as i would love for DE to test better before they release we are the Test servers much better than any internal testing)

[kapn655321]

52 minutes ago, Shinobu_Scorpion said:

I don't know about you, but I'm still playing my way and doing just fine. Stop overreacting.

Simply.. if they're trying to do the same, and should have the same expectation that it should work out, and it just doesn't.. then they're certainly well within their rights to express that and suggest how it may improve.

[zuraja]

3 hours ago, Moraiel said:

was anyone really using Khora to heal Op-Link?

This one is especially egregious considering that called it a bugfix despite the fact that the in-game description says that it was how the ability was intended to function.

[AzureTerra]

3 hours ago, Shinobu_Scorpion said:

 Stop overreacting.

Unfortunately most players only know how to overreact.

[Steel_Rook]

8 hours ago, Moraiel said:

Players using Nova/Octavia in a cool way to get P1 Exploiter Orb done quickly, nope we don't want you playing that way. Using Limbo (was anyone really using Khora to heal Op-Link?) to make Scarlet Spear easier, nope we can't have you doing that.

It probably had something to do with Limbo turning all of Scarlet Spear into a watch-checking exercise. I board the Murex, deploy my OpLink, then take my hands off the keyboard and sit on them while the clock counts down. I'm so glad other players' choices meant I couldn't play the game. But who cares, right? We don't actually like Warframe or want to play the game. We're here for the Skinner box, so the less we get to play the better. I'm obviously being facetious here, but this sort of stuff is why I don't bother teaming in Warframe any more. There's always someone who's view of "fun" is playing the game for me while I tag along and watch.

[Moraiel]

31 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

It probably had something to do with Limbo turning all of Scarlet Spear into a watch-checking exercise. I board the Murex, deploy my OpLink, then take my hands off the keyboard and sit on them while the clock counts down. I'm so glad other players' choices meant I couldn't play the game. But who cares, right? We don't actually like Warframe or want to play the game. We're here for the Skinner box, so the less we get to play the better. I'm obviously being facetious here, but this sort of stuff is why I don't bother teaming in Warframe any more. There's always someone who's view of "fun" is playing the game for me while I tag along and watch.

You know there is recruiting chat and plenty of discords you can use to make your own party, if you don't like pubs. Specify no Limbo, you will have no problem getting 3 others. And the design of Limbo is hardly other player's choices, DE designed him to do this exact thing.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

First Rule of Warframe: Never Get Attached to Anything.

 

Second Rule of Warframe: For a game that has Space Magic; they don't like Space Magic...At All.

 

 You keep a healthy sense of humor over those rules then this game will never get you down when they eventually go into effect onto whatever you like or love the most about it.

Edited April 3, 2020 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Steel_Rook]

32 minutes ago, Moraiel said:

You know there is recruiting chat and plenty of discords you can use to make your own party, if you don't like pubs. Specify no Limbo, you will have no problem getting 3 others. And the design of Limbo is hardly other player's choices, DE designed him to do this exact thing.

Yeah, and now they're redesigning him. I mean, if the "DE designed it that way" applies to how Limbo worked before, why can't it apply to how Limbo works now?

Moreover, sending people to chats and forums and discords to put together premade teams fundamentally misses the point of public matchmaking. If I had the time to waste spamming "LFG" then I wouldn't be bothering with matchmaking in the first place.

[Uhkretor]

@Moraiel,

Considering your opening post, and your subsequent reply to Steel_Rook, I can only conclude that you're looking for attention and this thread screams General Discussion. You're not playing your game. None of us are. Its a product, both envisioned and developed by DE.

 

The Limbo change to Stasis actually match the Adaptation behavior of the Sentients, and I do hope the same happens with CC abilities across the board directly related to Sentients. Now, if you're not happy with it, let me make a suggestion that will help you in the future:

51 minutes ago, Moraiel said:

You know there is recruiting chat and plenty of discords you can use to make your own party

Variety is key here, no one wants to watch paint dry on a wall during a mission while some moron's twisted view of "fun" is somehow exploiting an ability to completely shut down an entire faction that has natural adaptation. If the whole purpose of the game was that, more people would be running Elite/Sanctuary Onslaught more often instead wasting their time to come to the forums and make thread after thread about how COV- -Saryn/Prime is too OP, effectively taking away all the fun from Elite/Sanctuary Onslaught.

 

"Why don't they adapt to other abilities, especially the ones dealing damage?" Despite the nonsense of them dealing Physical/Elemental damage (when applicable) when they should be dealing Void damage in the first place, its direct Void energy contact... because, you know, abilities have Void energy as source. However, CC abilities are not direct Void energy contact and, because of it, Sentients adapt to their effects by reducing the efficiency of those CC abilities against them.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Uhkretor

[Aesthier]

57 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Yeah, and now they're redesigning him. I mean, if the "DE designed it that way" applies to how Limbo worked before, why can't it apply to how Limbo works now?

Moreover, sending people to chats and forums and discords to put together premade teams fundamentally misses the point of public matchmaking. If I had the time to waste spamming "LFG" then I wouldn't be bothering with matchmaking in the first place.

Sorry Rook this is one area I disagree with you.

I get that it becomes unfun but why should players that enjoy his playstyle and have not finished building limbo (or any other warframe) to the point it makes it trivial for others pay the cost of having those abilities removed "mid event".

De begins the event, and people who have limbo built correctly cheese the content, then turn around and complain, once they have what they need, getting DE to  shut the door to those players just beginning the content with him.

Want him changed? Then DE should do it in between "limited time events" and not during them.

The few players frustrated by seeing him in pugs actually have a workarounds available.

Players seeking to enjoy his abilities in premade or even solo are now presented with no work around.

 

Its a bit selfish from my perspective.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Aesthier

[LuckyCharm]

>_> my playstyle is solo. Not quite sure why playing solo is widely regarded by DE as easier, and therefore needs to be less rewarding. This recent event for example has the ground team getting sustantially less rewards for arguably longer time fighting and defending, and my only theories are its either because they want people to only play railjack, or its because the solo players were on the ground. Been pretty much like that in all areas of the game and given the current power curve id think you should get more rewards for doing things so as you have more difficulty

[TheLexiConArtist]

32 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

>_> my playstyle is solo. Not quite sure why playing solo is widely regarded by DE as easier, and therefore needs to be less rewarding. This recent event for example has the ground team getting sustantially less rewards for arguably longer time fighting and defending, and my only theories are its either because they want people to only play railjack, or its because the solo players were on the ground. Been pretty much like that in all areas of the game and given the current power curve id think you should get more rewards for doing things so as you have more difficulty

My playstyle is solo. I soloed through ground several times, as Frost. Occasionally an Elite Shield Lancer would cheat through my globe and instagib my link. I switched to Limbo. It's annoying, either way, because I can't be a DPS powerhouse at the same time (and on top of that, the Condrix is designed to remove single-source DPS stacking).

I switched to Space.

It took, and continues to take, half the time to complete. Its reward was, and is, only about 20% lower than Ground. It was vastly easier to solo, Railjack tankiness permitting, because you're not being asked to pull double duty - just the obligatory defense. Space is far more solo-friendly, no matter what changes have been made, than Ground.

Now Limbo cuts off his own protections from Sentients that were lingering under platforms and such, which just results in a bunch of 'lol gotcha' surprises by the final Murex, sentients who won't be affected by Stasis - it's not even diminishing returns as far as I could tell, trying to 'recapture' one that was moving in my rift did nothing at all - will turn up and twat you with one of their stick-arms, and you die. Or your link will.

 

I've moved onto the next best thing. It's working, it's not braindead - I have to be active because the sentients cheat rampantly against so many protective abilities - and it's not perfect, so if it takes too long due to insufficient Fish Teams, I'm going to risk my Oplink getting taken down by sheer cheating-enemy attrition. 

It's still more solo-friendly than Ground. I'm still going to keep running it, solo if necessary.

DE needs to rethink what 'solo friendly' actually means, though, because even in the more friendly space mission where you're not also being tasked with the double-duty and limitations of damage output, 'defend four times longer just because you're solo and there's nothing else you can do to solve that except adding people' is not solo-friendly.

[(NSW)Riophilip]

I like to play the way I prefer, with my volt, but I still manage to barely scrape by. I understand that every game has a meta, but perhaps warframe's is a bit too narrow.

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, Aesthier said:

I get that it becomes unfun but why should players that enjoy his playstyle and have not finished building limbo (or any other warframe) to the point it makes it trivial for others pay the cost of having those abilities removed "mid event".

I'd argue for two reasons. For one thing, Limbo was making public matchmaking insufferable. Mind you, I'd argue the same about a lot of "nuke frames" but that's a bit outside the scope of the discussion. Now, you can ask why this wasn't addressed BEFORE the event shipped. I mean, surely it was a no-brainer that Limbo would become vital to anyone designing the event, right? I called it the first time I played it. "Man, a Limbo could make this a lot easier!" was an overriding thought. I don't have a good answer there, other than "Because DE don't seem to think anything through before releasing it." It feels like they're working in constant crunch without much time to stop and go through all the potential issues of what they're designing. The same goes for Venari healing Oplinks, as well.

In fact, I could go one further and argue that the whole "defence objective" design itself needs to be axed and severely redesigned where it doesn't more or less REQUIRE a Limbo or a Frost or a Garaa or some other way of physically shielding the defence objective. So don't get me wrong - I'm not here "Ding dong the witch is dead!" I don't want Limbo nerfed. In fact, I was recently thinking of proposing a change to his Cataclysm which would pull enemies caught in the Cataclysm boundary in as it shrinks, so they don't go through this state of flip-flopping between being in and out of the the bubble. I would further have proposed that the Cataclysm phaseshift our Operators so they aren't entirely useless with a Limbo, and also phaseshift the Condrix so a Limbo with a large bubble doesn't make it undamageable.

DE have kind of a terrible event on their hands, so they're running around putting out fires. As you saw with Venari's change, not all of their reactions are handled entirely well. The Limbo change is one such.

More to the point, though...

Because Limbo was becoming "mandatory." I've already had people quit out of Condrix teams because we have no Limbo on the team, or complain about it, or insist someone pick up a Limbo. For whatever reason, they wouldn't even accept my Frost, even though I'm pretty sure I can do just as good of a job protecting four OpLinks... OK, maybe not JUST as good of a job, but a decent one. "People will optimise all the fun out of the game if you let them," and Limbo was getting to that point. He was on every team, and the teams without one tended to fall apart or complain.

Again - I don't necessarily blame players for this. I blame DE for creating one flavour of Defence mission after another, even though all of them suck ass and can be utterly trivialised by quite a few Warframes. It's rapidly becoming obvious to me that Warframe is in critical need of actual mission design, because stuff like this is only going to keep happening otherwise. If your entire mission consists of one really basic objective repeated 17 times, then OF COURSE people will pick whatever Warframe can entirely negate it. It's on DE to stop developing Warframe like it's a #*!%ing iPhone game.

[Kaizal]

11 hours ago, AzureTerra said:

Unfortunately most players only know how to overreact.

I mean almost any "boss" in warframe either is a one hit kill or doesn't give a S#&$ at all about your warframe pick, because invulnerability phases. I don't see how saying that its garbage design is overreacting but ok.

[TamePingu]

5 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

First Rule of Warframe: Never Get Attached to Anything.

 

Second Rule of Warframe: For a game that has Space Magic; they don't like Space Magic...At All.

 

 You keep a healthy sense of humor over those rules then this game will never get you down when they eventually go into effect onto whatever you like or love the most about it.

That's not how you Warframe.

You have to b*tch and moan that *this* frame needs a rework and that *that* frame needs a nerf.

And scream your lungs out if they dare come anywhere near your fav frame 'cause s/he's your bae.

 

PS: Don't touch Nezha.

Edited April 3, 2020 by TamePingu
Just to make it abundantly clear that I'm wewy sewious

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Part of what's happening to Warframe is what destroyed Destiny and caused it to be the failure it is, ultimately resulting in activision holding a gun to bungie's head and forcing them to buy out the rights to the ip, which the Bungie's executive staff were expecting to cause them to be bankrupt within six months... That's why it's such a trash game now that has no content besides monetization. They still aren't in the green and are really only producing for Destiny in a desperate attempt to move the goal post until their new ip with a different publisher launches and they can leave destiny to rot.

How did this happen? Bungie spent too much time listening to yes men telling them that the worst part of their nature was the right path to follow, while shouting down the majority of players who were pointing out critical failings of the choices they were making. DE is doing that now with warframe. Listening only to the yesmen who want Warframe basically to never change from what it is right now, and any time DE makes a hostile decision against the player base? Blind support no matter how much damage it causes. Until months of work need to be reverted one patch later because the YES MEN WERE WRONG and they had to reverse all their labor just to keep from losing all their players en mass. 

They'll end up reverting all these changes because they have forgotten how badly it will effect the end content and they'll have put thousands of dollars and work hours into instituting these changes only to have it come to nothing. Nerfing things should always be the absolutely last tool in your tool chest, a big #*!%ing sledge hammer that even if it fixes what you're going to use it on is going to leave it dented and broken in every other way besides that yes it's no longer broken in that one way, just every other way. Nerfing is a sledge hammer, never use it when what you need is a freaking screw driver or pen knife. 

[TaigenRaine]

What bothers me about the Limbo nerf is that it's not Limbo being OP that made everyone use him in this event.  The reason Limbo is used, and not Gara or Frost or any other defense frame that is widely used in every other defense oriented mission is that they made the op-links unable to be healed  ..  at  ..  all (by your own squad).  So you have to either -perfectly- defend them or rely on strangers donating credits to your mission.  When it comes to perfect defense, there is only one frame that can do that.  Is it OP?  Not usually.  It's overkill for defense/excavation/etc.  The only situation where being absolutely sure not a single stray bullet hits your objective is Scarlet Spear.  This is why it's Limbos event, and players aren't using any other defense frames.  Because of this weird credit sink that DE seems to want this event to be, we have 2 frames now that are permanently nerfed (sorry... fixed....) and the whole situation is stupid.

Want other frames used?  Let Trinity and Oberon and Khora and Vazarin heal the oplinks.  Done, Limbo is no longer meta and no longer 'OP'.  Instead, we get it patched so that the ways people found to heal the links are removed, and Limbo is less effective.  To what end?  So that people can dump credits in a menu so that they have a better chance of getting their bonus at the end?  So you can get lucky and have random people repair your oplinks... or you can fail because noone did?  That makes for a really fun event.

[Patacakes]

I don't get why re balancing a warframe's abilities to not make a 2 year long development, that devs have poured countless hours into making be a bad thing. 

Limbo as DE has stated, made the event trivial and exploited the way they intended the event to be experienced. 

They changed that so the event could be experienced correctly and not have every team running limbo and mesa, or nova and mesa, or any other CC frame and a mesa to complete the event.  

whineframers indeed.  

Edited April 3, 2020 by Patacakes
grammer >.>