Offline Trading Shop in Relays

[(PSN)thowed]

13 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

That isn't true, there's been several both free to play and pay/buy to play games that have traded premium currency or conversions, all of which have auction houses/markets. Warframe's plat system wasn't unique even when the game first came out.

A market doesn't exist because it meant significantly less work for the developers. It would have been an extra system for them to have to design, maintain, as well as design and balance the game around.

The game has never been designed in a way to even take trading into consideration, let alone an actual market. Between their design decisions and their marketing decisions it is evident that trading is a complete afterthought and exists purely to check a box on "we have this in the game", rather than it being an actual thing people are meant to interact with regularly. DE even handles fraud in a very poor way.

Really?  Which ones?  Please don't name niche games that don't have a big player base.

[Yamazuki]

Just now, (PS4)thowed said:

Really?  Which ones?  Please don't name niche games that don't have a big player base.

Warframe isn't really even that large of a player base either, and quite honestly, I don't see why that would be relevant.

Either way, one example would be GW2's gem to gold and gold to gem conversions. Of course, as said, the game allows people to earn premium currency without paying for it while having a trading post because the game was designed and balanced around actively trading being an actual thing.

There's also games where cash shop items, and even subscriptions, are traded for in-game currency. Not all games are designed around preventing people who don't spend money from ever being able to earn cash shop items. In fact, Warframe has far more items that require paying for it with cash than so many of these other games [PA Accessories, Tennogen on PC, pack cosmetics, etc].

[SneakyErvin]

The system we have works. An AH would however solve one issue, illegal plat. They could have direct trading as now and then they could have an AH for those that dont mind spending extra time to have their plat secured.

An AH in WF could easily require you to load up the plat you wanna use in it, then have it check the plat so it is legit before you can start using it. It would require that people plan ahead at the early stages, but once the things get rolling there would have to be no checking done by the AH for legit plat since it would trade hands within the AH system, so if it has passed the check once it is obviously legit after the next trade aswell.

I wouldnt mind it myself even if it ment I had to wait a week for my plat to get verified. It would solve so many potential issues.

edit: Heck I'd settle with a banking system where I can have my plat checked and then have an option when trading to only accept "verified plat" from the "bank".

Edited May 8, 2020 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)thowed]

31 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Warframe isn't really even that large of a player base either, and quite honestly, I don't see why that would be relevant.

Either way, one example would be GW2's gem to gold and gold to gem conversions. Of course, as said, the game allows people to earn premium currency without paying for it while having a trading post because the game was designed and balanced around actively trading being an actual thing.

There's also games where cash shop items, and even subscriptions, are traded for in-game currency. Not all games are designed around preventing people who don't spend money from ever being able to earn cash shop items. In fact, Warframe has far more items that require paying for it with cash than so many of these other games [PA Accessories, Tennogen on PC, pack cosmetics, etc].

There's still checks and balances.  You can't just straight say you want an auction house with the same way it is now.  First they'd have to come up with that conversion rate while making the other currency valuable enough to make players wanna give their platinum away.  I don't have to tell you who those conversions always favor.  I'd actually be all for an auction house because I'm a paying player and it would benefit me the most.  I could get mods, rivens, new prime sets and any other thing I didn't wanna farm dirt cheap.  It would lead to me and many others buying less platinum and an increase of prices in the store.  Which is exactly why it's not gonna happen.  I've never played any game with an auction house where you could DIRECTLY trade for premium currency.

[MacKerris]

3 hours ago, PatternistSlave said:

because Warframe wasn't made by just another Korean studio milking every last penny out of whales at the expense of free players.

lol, wut?

No they're Chinese owned.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

1 hour ago, (PS4)thowed said:

There's still checks and balances.  You can't just straight say you want an auction house with the same way it is now.  First they'd have to come up with that conversion rate while making the other currency valuable enough to make players wanna give their platinum away.  I don't have to tell you who those conversions always favor.  I'd actually be all for an auction house because I'm a paying player and it would benefit me the most.  I could get mods, rivens, new prime sets and any other thing I didn't wanna farm dirt cheap.  It would lead to me and many others buying less platinum and an increase of prices in the store.  Which is exactly why it's not gonna happen.  I've never played any game with an auction house where you could DIRECTLY trade for premium currency.

What? 
Youre acting like the current economy isnt already player driven dude. If there 0 trading already you might have a point but... Warframe - on all platforms - already has a vibrant market culture and economy.  
Also, star trek online has something called the dilithium exchange where you can trade semi-premium currency - dilithium - for premium currency. Its a player driven market, with players setting the prices and buying the premium currency. 

Youre also under the impression that people would list everything for much cheaper than usual - and i gurantee you that the same market fixing that goes on with every other market in warframe will go on in an auction house as well. the only real difference would be the volume of trades performed would go up because it would be MUCH easier to find an item you want, contact the seller, and PM them an offer if you dont have the raw plat for it.

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

5 hours ago, Karasokami said:

(I'm not a native english speaker, so my english might be a little bit rough, sry)

Can we please get an proper Ingame market system, and not this way to laborious Trade chat system? Why not something as easy, uncomlicated and relaxed as other MMOs like, for example BDO. Just an easy trade console somewehere in the orbiter, where you can upload the stuff you want to sell, for the price you want to sell it, and when it's sold, you get a message and then go and recieve your Platinum from said console. And when you want to buy something? You just search for it, then get a list with prices, you search for the best price, click a "buy" button, and BOOM, it's yours. Would make trading a lot easier and better. Currently, you have either use Trade chat, and hope that someone has the item you want or someone wants the item you want to sell, then message them, wait for an reply, then get into a group, then go to Dojo, and then you can sell him with one of your limited trades for the day. Or use Warframe market and hope for a good price, just to wait 1hour for an reply. With an proper market system, it's just 2 clicks. Which leaves more time to actually play the game and farm stuff = Grofit.

 

Edit: I did not mean copying the BDO Trading market one to one into Warframe, just wanted to give an example of an ingame Market. If you dont like BDO, here's another example: Escape From Tarkov. Yes, it's a completeley differnt game, but this is just about the basic function of a market system.

Alright what u said about the market, i really want them to implement that into the game too, its kinda pointless a game like this doesnt have a market system

-
On the other hand let me tell u a trick, go to www.warframe.market register an account and get verified:

When u wanna buy

Spoiler

-u can use the websites WTB button , set your price and wait for PM

or what i usually do is
-just search the item, look for seller and check the lowest price
-if u wish to buy immediately, just click Online on-site/ingame players and whisper them your [item], most will reply and trade u right away, or fr their mission to end
*for my experience never buy anything from trade chat, most items are overpriced and u still have to haggle for cheap price, with warframe.market u can even choose the price because the seller already know the price they put

When u wanna sell
passive way

Spoiler

*this is when i sell cheaper or junk items that doesnt worth too much plat, of course u can put anything to sell
-just use the Sell function and put the items u want to sell and set the price, u can check the price beforehand and set it as low/lower than the lowest price to get sales faster

active way (works well, i do this quite often)
 

Spoiler

*i actively look for buyers to milk in more plats, without the need to haggle too much
-search for the item that you want to sell
-go to Buyer section and see the highest price they offer to buy
-just pm the person ( online/in-site) and show them the item and ask them if they still need it
-usually they'll just accept the item with the price they set themselves (rarely i seen buyer who still haggles)
-this is the fastest way to sell the item at the highest price for me, while not needing to go through trade chat spams n whisper haggles

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by WOWESOMUCHDOGE

[(PSN)thowed]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ARC_Paroe said:

What? 
Youre acting like the current economy isnt already player driven dude. If there 0 trading already you might have a point but... Warframe - on all platforms - already has a vibrant market culture and economy.  
Also, star trek online has something called the dilithium exchange where you can trade semi-premium currency - dilithium - for premium currency. Its a player driven market, with players setting the prices and buying the premium currency. 

Youre also under the impression that people would list everything for much cheaper than usual - and i gurantee you that the same market fixing that goes on with every other market in warframe will go on in an auction house as well. the only real difference would be the volume of trades performed would go up because it would be MUCH easier to find an item you want, contact the seller, and PM them an offer if you dont have the raw plat for it.

I and many others would farm and put all my extra stuff on an auction house and undercut everyone just to get rid of it and put more up.  This would happen to the point where everything would be super cheap.  I don't try to sell now because I don't want the hassle.  If I could just put it up and make platinum I'd take the 1 platinum prices.  There's a reason DE hasn't done it yet, especially if it would be so good for the game.  I've played games with auction houses, everything IS super cheap except the things that only one in ten thousand people get to drop.  Also what?  Did that give me more credibility?

[trst]

As always this system would fall flat on it's face and kill all trading and plat farming methods that aren't Rivens.

This game has no real economy due to supply and demand being on opposite ends of the solar system. Letting people list anything for sale at any point will just show how worthless everything is due to the tens of thousands of duplicates the community could unload into it. And anything that could fetch 20-30p currently would instantly be reduced to whatever minimum value the system allows. The only reason things can have value currently is due to supply and demand being artificially set by one's current instance of trade chat leaving you forced to deal with the prices presented at that time or require you to spend more time watching chat later hoping for better prices.

Then there is the Riven issue where people are already concerned and paranoid over other players sniping every underpriced Riven anyone tries to sell just to flip it for 10x the cost. Any system that condenses trading to pressing a single buy button would allow people to freely bot the market and buy these types of items seconds after being listed. So if people aren't already trying to manipulate Riven markets they certainly would if it was made that easy to.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

2 hours ago, (PS4)thowed said:

I and many others would farm and put all my extra stuff on an auction house and undercut everyone just to get rid of it and put more up.  This would happen to the point where everything would be super cheap.  I don't try to sell now because I don't want the hassle.  If I could just put it up and make platinum I'd take the 1 platinum prices.  There's a reason DE hasn't done it yet, especially if it would be so good for the game.  I've played games with auction houses, everything IS super cheap except the things that only one in ten thousand people get to drop.  Also what?  Did that give me more credibility?

No... Thats simply not true. Even if you under-sell for quick sales, theres still going to be the average price and price-fixers or actual merchants will buy up your cheap stock to raise the price/flip. You only 'undercut' when youre playing the merchant game. 
By your logic flippers dont exist, and cannot exist, because youd be ruining their prices.  

Warframe has a limited number of trades, i see no reason why a warframe auction house wouldnt be limited the same way; Heck, having an auction listing take UP a trade while its active would prevent merchant types from fixing the market without using a bunch of alts and burning their normal trades.
 

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

2 hours ago, trst said:

As always this system would fall flat on it's face and kill all trading and plat farming methods that aren't Rivens.

This game has no real economy due to supply and demand being on opposite ends of the solar system. Letting people list anything for sale at any point will just show how worthless everything is due to the tens of thousands of duplicates the community could unload into it. And anything that could fetch 20-30p currently would instantly be reduced to whatever minimum value the system allows. The only reason things can have value currently is due to supply and demand being artificially set by one's current instance of trade chat leaving you forced to deal with the prices presented at that time or require you to spend more time watching chat later hoping for better prices.

Then there is the Riven issue where people are already concerned and paranoid over other players sniping every underpriced Riven anyone tries to sell just to flip it for 10x the cost. Any system that condenses trading to pressing a single buy button would allow people to freely bot the market and buy these types of items seconds after being listed. So if people aren't already trying to manipulate Riven markets they certainly would if it was made that easy to.

Youre... Basically saying that making it easier for people who dont care about trading to trade will make it harder for people who do care to trade for a profit. 
The people who already dont trade will still not trade, no matter how easy it is, because they dont care. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by (PS4)ARC_Paroe

[trst]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ARC_Paroe said:

Youre... Basically saying that making it easier for people who dont care about trading to trade will make it harder for people who do care to trade for a profit. 
The people who already dont trade will still not trade, no matter how easy it is, because they dont care. 

But the reason a lot of people currently don't trade is because of the hassle involved with it, remove that hassle and more people will attempt trading. And if there are people who still can't be bothered to trade then they're a non-factor in the entire discussion as they're not involving themselves with the system at all.

Edited May 9, 2020 by trst

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

28 minutes ago, trst said:

But the reason a lot of people currently don't trade is because of the hassle involved with it, remove that hassle and more people will attempt trading. And if there are people who still can't be bothered to trade then they're a non-factor in the entire discussion as they're not involving themselves with the system at all.

Youre advocating status quo because change is scary. 
Thats not a good position to have in any argument, especially when the thing youre arguing for is both janky AND easily taken advantage of.

[SleepingVictors]

37 minutes ago, trst said:

But the reason a lot of people currently don't trade is because of the hassle involved with it, remove that hassle and more people will attempt trading. And if there are people who still can't be bothered to trade then they're a non-factor in the entire discussion as they're not involving themselves with the system at all.

I'm pretty sure the hassle has nothing to do with this, the actual reason most people don't trade is because:

1. They don't know about warframe.market.

2. They see the insane, bizarre and ridiculous prices that the trading tab has, and they're scared away.

Like for real haven't you seen the people hoping to scam others by selling things that you could buy from warframe.market at double and sometimes TRIPLE the price?? Selling Mesa/Nekros/Oberon/Limbo etc for 200+ plat when you can easily farm them or get them for less than 90 plat from the market. If I didn't know about the website I wouldn't touch the trading tab with a 10 foot pole.

[kgabor]

13 hours ago, Jemmies said:

I think originally, Maroo's Bazaar was supposed to be that. I recall early on, Maroo's Bazaar was filled with a lot of people and people were setting up shops around the area and people can buy stuff directly from other players.

After my hiatus, I was surprised that Maroo's Bazaar was so empty.

This might be because at Maroo's Bazaar you still have to interact with all, sometimes even people who obviously aren't going to be serious buyers.

Trading from a dojo is way less complicated and faster in comparison without much unnecessary drama, you set a price and someone either takes it or not, also easier to keep track of the items traded in trade chat+more possible trades without being restricted to a single instance of a relay.

[Tricky5hift]

Trade chat isn't the most elegant trade solution but it works well enough.

Obviously DE would have a vested interest in not making trading super easy and hands-off since they need to make money off the game.

[Jemmies]

3 hours ago, Tricky5hift said:

Trade chat isn't the most elegant trade solution but it works well enough.

Obviously DE would have a vested interest in not making trading super easy and hands-off since they need to make money off the game.

Yes, I like the trade chat actually. Especially used with the word filters. It functions almost like a stock market at the floor, if you can imagine that.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

11 hours ago, (PS4)thowed said:

I and many others would farm and put all my extra stuff on an auction house and undercut everyone just to get rid of it and put more up.  This would happen to the point where everything would be super cheap.  I don't try to sell now because I don't want the hassle.  If I could just put it up and make platinum I'd take the 1 platinum prices.  There's a reason DE hasn't done it yet, especially if it would be so good for the game.  I've played games with auction houses, everything IS super cheap except the things that only one in ten thousand people get to drop.  Also what?  Did that give me more credibility?

You and me must play different MMO's. Neverwinter, all the good items are always listed for over 100k astral diamonds, sometimes way more; Star Trek Online, everything in the AH is always priced at over 1 million credits, barely anything is under that amount. This talk of "if Warframe had an AH, everything would be cheap" is unfounded. Nobody can actually predict if people will sell lower or actually sell higher. The two games I pointed out kinda shows that they didn't follow the cheaper logic.

[BDMblue]

If they did this I would ask for a 25% penalty to trading this way. Right now trade is a buyers paradise. It would get much worse with this. 

[WOWESOMUCHDOGE]

7 hours ago, SleepingVictors said:

I'm pretty sure the hassle has nothing to do with this, the actual reason most people don't trade is because:

1. They don't know about warframe.market.

2. They see the insane, bizarre and ridiculous prices that the trading tab has, and they're scared away.

Like for real haven't you seen the people hoping to scam others by selling things that you could buy from warframe.market at double and sometimes TRIPLE the price?? Selling Mesa/Nekros/Oberon/Limbo etc for 200+ plat when you can easily farm them or get them for less than 90 plat from the market. If I didn't know about the website I wouldn't touch the trading tab with a 10 foot pole.

i have long abandoned the trading tab in warframe lmao, warframe market u can get mesa prime for like 20p

[Leyvonne]

A simple way to keep trading still a player to player interaction and make it less of a chore is an ingame market board that works just like warframe.market does. It is insane that we have to use 3rd party tools for trading if we don't enjoy sitting and reading trade chat all day.

[TARINunit9]

22 hours ago, Maxim said:

Not quite so, when you come to the store in real life, you do not buy goods directly from the manufacturer, the store acts as an intermediary with its margin. It’s the same here, you expose the items, and the NPC makes an extra charge of 1-3%, NPC is an intermediary

This will save you time if you do not want to spend hours in the game just waiting for the buyer

True in real life, but DigitalExtremes have put their foot down very firmly on this one: no offline trading, they simply will not put it in the game

[Magus_Tahir]

19 minutes ago, Leyvonne said:

It is insane that we have to use 3rd party tools for trading if we don't enjoy sitting and reading trade chat all day.

Should have been around back in the ancient wow days where none of the auction houses were linked Auctioneer didn't exist and you had to hawk your wares in the streets. That said, Im going to address the point that I always do in these threads.

Quite simply put it is a waste of resources for Digital Extremes to make an ingame auction house when viable alternatives exist. We do not pay a monthly subscription for access to this game as such income on a monthly basis is incredibly volatile. This is a direct factor in planning the use of resources for development and it should be a foregone conclusion that the logistics involved with running this game will prioritize the content that is going to draw in players and keep them. Games design choices for free to play are made to create a product cheaply and efficiently and spending limited time and resources on such a low grade project when players have literally solved the issue themselves is illogical. Until needing an ingame auction house threatens Warframes continued existence it will not be a grade one priority.

[(PSN)thowed]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

You and me must play different MMO's. Neverwinter, all the good items are always listed for over 100k astral diamonds, sometimes way more; Star Trek Online, everything in the AH is always priced at over 1 million credits, barely anything is under that amount. This talk of "if Warframe had an AH, everything would be cheap" is unfounded. Nobody can actually predict if people will sell lower or actually sell higher. The two games I pointed out kinda shows that they didn't follow the cheaper logic.

At the end of my post I mentioned those kind of items.  I'm tired of beating a dead horse, ITS NOT HAPPENING ANYWAY.

[Leyvonne]

7 hours ago, Magus_Tahir said:

Should have been around back in the ancient wow days where none of the auction houses were linked Auctioneer didn't exist and you had to hawk your wares in the streets

I have been playing WoW for 15 years and currently play both classic and retail so I know exactly how it was (and still is on classic).. and I never traded with anyone outside my guild back then because it was a pita to sell or buy stuff using a chat that was spammed by everyone and their mother. I also play Path of Exile that has basically the same trading system that Warframe has (trade chat + 3rd party site). However I'm not looking for an auction house system. I just want a way to browse WTS / WTB listings ingame while everything else about trading would remain the same.. aka a small QoL feature that wouldn't remove the "social" aspect of trading.