Corrosive status effect became completely outclassed and needs a 2nd pass

[Artekkor]

Ever since the status rework i noticed that corrosion as a damage type became far less desirable on weapons with status potential.

Its still a good damage type with weapons that do not proc and just deal damage (crits, raw...) but anything that has 25%+ status chance benefits from having now overpowered viral far more.
Kuva Quartakk, Hind, Kraken and many others seem to follow this pattern. With two 60/60% status chance mods - the Viral appears to reliably outdamage Corrosion against grineer. GRINEER! A FACTION THAT RELIES ON ARMOR!

I propose that corrosion status effect needs an additional effect besides armor reduction.
My personal suggestion: how about - following the theme of compromising the target's defenses - it should also increase critical chance against the target? Lets say +5% additive crit chance per proc, maxing out at +50% crit chance at 10 status stacks.

It would help the corrosion to hold at least some kind of leverage against all-destroying viral which became essentially mandatory for any weapon with faint status potential.

 

 

EDIT: Adding a result of a little experiment i did down the line of the thread to make a refference point.

A test in simulacrum: +60% IMPACT Kuva Karak and Boltor Prime against level 170 grineer bombard.
Standart lazy modding: Damage, Multishot, Crits (only in karak's case)... And then two 60/60 mods to make viral. No heat / hunter munitions.

IMPACT KUVA KARAK:
Corrosion takes ~2,5 magazines (~175 bullets) to kill a single bombard.
Viral takes ~1,5 (~105 bullets). In reality it takes even less since i can just stop shooting after first magazine and the remaining 40% of bombar's HP gets drained by slash procs in majority of the cases (~70%)

BOLTOR PRIME (no slash present, no heat).
Viral took 6 magazines (~360 bolts).
Corrosion took 8 (~480 bolts).

Conclusion: even excluding all the DOTs from the equation - viral status builds SIMPLY end up dealing more damage than corrosion status build. Against armored opponents.
This completely removes any reason to use corrosion - an anti-armor element - on a status-leaning weapons. Even weapons with basic status chance of 15-20% and somewhat decent fire rate (something like Azima) have proven to be slightly better against grineer with viral equiped.

This effectively made corrosion's only point of existence to be the +75% damage bonus against ferrite armor, and only in case if the weapon is INCAPABLE of using status effects semi-effiiciently - which means 15% status chance or lower with a lower than average fire rate.
Valve please fix

Edited June 15, 2020 by Artekkor
Experiment data

[Tyreaus]

I'd be for that.

I think pretty much every faction-specific element - Magnetic and Corrosive both - should have some kind of universal application. Even heat, against non-armoured targets, has a DoT.

_{Blast and Gas also need some help...}

[Artekkor]

5 минут назад, Tyreaus сказал:

I'd be for that.

I think pretty much every faction-specific element - Magnetic and Corrosive both - should have some kind of universal application. Even heat, against non-armoured targets, has a DoT.

_{Blast and Gas also need some help...}

Oh yeah, definetely. Blast is just sad these days. And gas... Can't say much except: my status-gas Daikyu would occasionaly ruin grineer units before rework. Now? I don't even know.

[MetalGrayFox]

The post is laser focused on corrosive, but really the issue is wider. Who's running gas? magnetic? blast? Probably 1% or less of people. The meta just shifted with the last pass (which I believe was aimed to balance these status effects). So sadly but almost expectedly it failed to deliver and now we wait another 5 years for the next pass, as from what I have seen these types of posts are not being addressed by DE in the slightest. 

[Marine027]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Artekkor:

Oh yeah, definetely. Blast is just sad these days. And gas... Can't say much except: my status-gas Daikyu would occasionaly ruin grineer units before rework. Now? I don't even know.

Gas at least a side effect on every faction, the problem with corrosive, magnetic are to specific simply, enemys without shields and armor are not effected, radiation always confuses, electric and heat stun and do damage, gas is a aoe dot, explosion depends, accuracy is only really corpus and grineer but does nothing really to infested since most are melee only.

Those types are simply way to niche as status effects, the damage, i honestly not care, enemy dies eather way, but the status effects is what shuld be better, unique and also able to work on all enemys, the damage itself depends on the enemy as always so who cares.

The status effects itself should be simply universal, maybe at best reacting different on each faction and enemy types at best, corrosive removing and melting armor to slow enemys maybe, and if enemys without armor are hit it can disable there weapons on grineer due ballisitic or disable limbs on infested due there melted armor and bones.

Make status unique on each faction and enemy i say, this way you can create enemys immune to some status but not the damage so some balance or reat less on them like ability immune enemys.

[Artekkor]

15 минут назад, MetalGrayFox сказал:

The post is laser focused on corrosive, but really the issue is wider. Who's running gas? magnetic? blast? Probably 1% or less of people. The meta just shifted with the last pass (which I believe was aimed to balance these status effects). So sadly but almost expectedly it failed to deliver and now we wait another 5 years for the next pass, as from what I have seen these types of posts are not being addressed by DE in the slightest. 

This is true. Status  effects are an issue in general with lots of them being not universal.

However, we got used to those things. I dont mind gas being anti-infested and magnetics  being anti-corpus.

HOWEVER, i do have an issue with CORROSIVE - the anti-armor (which basically means anti-grineer) damage type being inferior AGAINST THE GRINEER when compared to a far more universal damage type that is viral. I think its deeply counter intuitive and simply wrong when the one damage type that's supposed to do something against armor loses to a universal alternative.

[Famecans]

broh, sorry disagree but it doesn't change much in the game, it will just DE mess things up again

you will always build the damage pyramid in which the main damage type is the most dominant, if corrosive or magnetic becomes the most dominant you will prioritize all your builds for the most dominant damage, and if all types of damage are balanced and efficient everything will equal and everything will be like the damage of the truth

if DE created mods to convert percentage of damage A to damage B everything could be different

someone needs to do a well-structured topic explaining this to DE, I don't have much experience with English

[ShortCat]

14 hours ago, Artekkor said:

I propose that corrosion status effect needs an additional effect besides armor reduction.

Corrosive status is bad because it has a cap now and cannot fully strip armor. That's the issue.

[Artekkor]

33 минуты назад, ShortCat сказал:

Corrosive status is bad because it has a cap now and cannot fully strip armor. That's the issue.

Partially, yes. Full armor strip was quiet a feature. Although it would rarely ocur in the wild, unless you specifically build for it. Usually enemies would die before that happens, minus bosses.

[Amadurim]

simple way to buff corrosive is to revert it back and give it a duration. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Wouldn’t mind it’s final armor strip % being higher.

[Artekkor]

3 часа назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

Wouldn’t mind it’s final armor strip % being higher.

Im afraid its not going to help. Even if they'll make it 99% - viral will still be able to out-burst it. The only way they can do it is to make it be able to remove armor completely (even if for a time being) and probably reduce the amount of required stacks to do that, otherwise by the time you remove all that armor viral would probably already kill it.

[kevoisvevo]

In my testing viral only works well when paired with slash or upto a certain Armor around lvl 150. After that corrosive becomes more necessary.

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

4 hours ago, kevoisvevo said:

In my testing viral only works well when paired with slash or upto a certain Armor around lvl 150. After that corrosive becomes more necessary.

Viral with fire is pretty much the best combo now!

[kevoisvevo]

Just now, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Viral with fire is pretty much the best combo now!

upto a certain level and high depends on the armor value too.

[Artekkor]

2 часа назад, kevoisvevo сказал:

upto a certain level and high depends on the armor value too.

Dont know man, viral + heat status-focused kuva ogris did a good job of 170 level bombards in my simulacrum test for a friend. Couple of well-aimed shots and entire squad of bombards just burned to their deaths.

[Aldain]

Then we buff Corrosive and people complain Viral is too weak now.

...Meanwhile Gas is dead and rotting in the corner, Magnetic is still pretty much a joke, Blast is Blast and Radiation is barely clinging to life by a chunk of Alloy Armor.

[Artekkor]

6 часов назад, Aldain сказал:

Then we buff Corrosive and people complain Viral is too weak now.

...Meanwhile Gas is dead and rotting in the corner, Magnetic is still pretty much a joke, Blast is Blast and Radiation is barely clinging to life by a chunk of Alloy Armor.

I mean... We could strike a balance where the difference between the two is not entire 2-3 bursts of Kuva Hind when dealing with a level 90 bombard. Maybe like half a burst... I would be fine with that.

The rest... I think they have their case, its just grineer are still a superior faction when it comes to tankyness (and they are also the most common enemy).

Radiation being anti alloy-armor is acceptable, although one still wishes the proc did a little bit better.

Magnetic still has a case against corpus, especially sortie corpus with enhanced shields, but it overshadowed by toxin which just bypasses the thing completely, so uh... Nerf toxin?

And as for gas... The issue with it (to me, att least) is that it exists to be exclusively against infested, yet it deals bonus damage to the trash mobs like chargers, when the real threat are goddamn ancients which are - oh boy - are weak to corrosion and blast. Who in their right mind would prioritize killing chargers and runners over ancients, broodmothers and infested MOAs?
And it wouldn't be that bad, if it wasn't for hardcore damage reductions against everything else that isn't infested. Its essentially insanity to use it against grineer, and while somehwat acceptable against corpus - toxin, once again, is just a superior option.

While at it: why the hell electricity deals lesser damage to armored units? Shouldn't the grineer armor work as a conduit and make it hurt even more?

And blast... I don't even know what to do with it. The real life explosives are effictively a sure way to kill anyone and anything, since explosives to bullets are what maces and hammers are to swords. Yet in this game its... I don't know what it is. Knockdown made sense, but was super annoying to work with. The current accuracy debuff is useless for sure. And once again: no damage aplications.

Might as well rename it and call it FLASHBANG since that's what it is now. Maybe blast should be capable of blinding enemies completely and opening them to finishers? Like a full-blown stun via concussion.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Artekkor

[OmegaVoid]

6 hours ago, Artekkor said:

While at it: why the hell electricity deals lesser damage to armored units? Shouldn't the grineer armor work as a conduit and make it hurt even more?

Electrical discharge follows the path of least resistance. If it can flow to ground though flesh or through air, it will go through flesh, because although flesh is a relatively poor electrical conductor it is still a far better conductor than air. If it could flow through flesh or metal, it would flow through the metal, because metals are far better electrical conductors than flesh. 

"Under dry conditions, the resistance offered by the human body may be as high as 100,000 ohms. Wet or broken skin may drop the body's resistance to 1,000 ohms" (National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, US).

Pretty much any piece of armour would present much less than one ohm of resistance.

The armour, as you say, works as a conduit, but that conduit diverts current away from the flesh inside, resulting in less harm.

[DrivaMain]

15 hours ago, Aldain said:

Then we buff Corrosive and people complain Viral is too weak now.

...Meanwhile Gas is dead and rotting in the corner, Magnetic is still pretty much a joke, Blast is Blast and Radiation is barely clinging to life by a chunk of Alloy Armor.

Radiation is pretty underrated, if you have a high status AoE weapon modded Radiation + Viral the enemies will just do the killing for you.

Gas, magnetic, and blast... yeah, pretty much dead or have no practical use.

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

On 2020-06-05 at 4:34 AM, ShortCat said:

Corrosive status is bad because it has a cap now and cannot fully strip armor. That's the issue.

Except this was a good chnage, because with full armor strip before your corrosive lost all damage bonus after that, making it useless if the enemy wasn't dead before then.

 

On 2020-06-06 at 1:30 PM, Artekkor said:

Who in their right mind would prioritize killing chargers and runners over ancients, broodmothers and infested MOAs?

Because chargers and runners are the bigger threat now, with the increased damage they do. Broodmothers aren't something to worry about, the only infested moa that is a pain is the shockwave variant and ancients can be avoided easily.

[ShortCat]

Just now, (XB1)Rez090 said:

Except this was a good chnage, because with full armor strip before your corrosive lost all damage bonus after that, making it useless if the enemy wasn't dead before then.

No it is not.

With higher lvls even if you remove 90% of armor, enemies still maintain a high DR value from remaining armor. Thus, this change is only "usefull" on lower lvls and mostly against Ferrite armor. Corrosive, as an armor strip option, absolutely cannot compete against armor ignore builds anymore.

[Teridax68]

Someone on the forums did the math and showed that Viral, despite being the more general-purpose status effect, significantly outperforms Corrosive up until some massively high enemy threshold. The new status system is very obviously imbalanced, and DE's fear of players reaching 100% armor reduction too easy has led them to neuter the effect, a problem worsened by the significant overbuffing of a status effect that arguably was already among the strongest beforehand. In this respect, solving Corrosive wouldn't just involve buffing the status effect (because it would still be outperformed even with 100% reduction), but would have to require a nerf to Viral as well, which would itself be significantly beneficial to elemental build diversity overall.

[DealerOfAbsolutes]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Rez090 said:

Except this was a good chnage, because with full armor strip before your corrosive lost all damage bonus after that, making it useless if the enemy wasn't dead before then.

Also, Alloy armor exists and Corrosive has no bonus against it. Corrosive with the strip cap lags behind Viral and Radiation when dealing with Bombards and Elite Lancers (Bulk if Grineer units).

Corrosive isn't the one stop shop solution to armor anymore that Viral/Slash still is.

[TheWhitterMatter]

I see what your saying and I agree with you, but ALL status effects need a look over. The status effects were mostly fine before the rework, but Radiation, Gas, Cold, and (sorta) Blast needed looking over. Dude, Cold status effect doesn't even have a chance to freeze enemies. What the fack is that bullsh1t? Toxin is barely useable because you use that to fight corpus, but it gets nothing, Literally Slash gets all the good mods, Corrosiive got all the good S#&$, now Viral has all the good S#&$. No mods to make Toxin stronger like "Toxin procs deal damage three times faster" or "Blast status effects cause enemies to take more damage from heat damage," or something like that. Gas is useless as ever, and its not even clear when it does damage.

All in all the status rework, was a step forward and another two steps backward. I think they had interesting ideas, but its more of the same.