Still no end game?

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

What exactly is end game in a third person looter shooter where we can become insanely powerful and ai levels scale infinently?

Normally in a mmo end game would be ranked pvp or yop raid tiers.  Warframe has neither. So we don't have a end game as it where.

If you play for stress relief, story, and heneral fun. Then your probably fine like me.

If you want a hardcore super hard game then your in the wrong game.

[CrimsonXX]

22 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Spoiler

 

I hope so... 

Fortuna is annoyingly Inaccessible. 

Id be pissed if whatever new Syndicate they have on Deimos requires you to Reach Rank 5 before you unlock the ability to Sacrifice Warframes for their Abilities.

 

 

Its likely still a developing system, though it was mentioned that it wasn't a system for new players so definitely possible for it to be behind a high tier.

18 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Spoiler

 

Railjack and scarlet spear had nothing to do with "endgame" that people have been asking for. And DE even admitted that steel path wasn't endgame, and my point about that was the rewards are lack luster, one and done, and you still need to be in a mission for hours before you can get to enemies that might make you sweat.

All I'm asking for is something on par to raids, which every mmo has, which this game USED to have till DE abandon it like every bit of content island they produce. But you can't make raids or "endgame content" with some bit of reward that casuals might miss out of, like arcanes USED to be. Its as simple as that, if you don't want to do the "endgame" or "tryhard" content then you don't deserve the rewards. 

But this community is so entitled that anytime challenging content comes out with worthwhile rewards, like raids or pre-nerf arbitrations or steel path, they demand either the rewards be lackluster or a "side piece" or their FOMO will make them cry out in rage. 

The game is PLENTY casual. There is thousands of hours for "everyone" to enjoy that adding one bit of content like raids with rotating rewards like the sortie drop table can exist without the casual audience missing out, if DE would just stop focusing 100% of their attention on casuals and take a minute to give vets something worthwhile. 

 

 

Um you need to think again as both were aimed at providing difficulty/challenge to people that were complaining about it. Railjack = stronger enemies, new systems to learn, and clearly aimed more towards difficulty (and co-op). SS = fighting waves of sentient enemies and/or doing the Railjack section of things. I specifically acknowledged how it was stated that Steel Path wasn't meant towards "endgame", but that it provides a difficulty spike that appeased tryhards for all of like a week or two before not being enough. I also have mentioned that these were attempts at chasing the illusion of the garbage that is "endgame". Steel Path is meant to be a side thing and if you truly focus in on the challenge angle, then that should be enough for you but ofc its not. Instead let's have them put something else in the mix that'll also fail to impress after a time, so your type can then complain about that too.

iirc the raids weren't really getting the traffic that warranted them, which goes towards the point of it being a select group. If they wanted to bring them back as a side-thing I wouldn't be against it, just so long as they were kept as a side-thing.

People like you are so entitled that you think content should be redirected from open to everyone to appeasing you, then going forward should be continually updated to keep you appeased even as unsustainable as it is. You want a nonstop parade of rewards which is also unsustainable. Anytime new content is put out, you burn through it then complain about it or just from the outset roll your eyes cause it isn't "punish me harder" content. You want to turn Warframe into a Nioh or Dark Souls (fk that).

100% are you serious right now? Liches ARE NOT casual content; Scarlet Spear was NOT casual content; Railjack is NOT casual content. If anything this shows how absolutely skewed your view of things is cause you have no idea of "casual". Then again you're clearly locked in the tryhard zone where anything not driving you into the ground is deemed as "casual". As far as I go if its kept to being a side-project, then I don't really give 2 cares about it; so long as it stays SIDE and not MAIN/CORE.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I think the chrysalis system is pretty close imo

[Ikyr0]

there are enough endgame activities now. DE has been doing a great job lately on that front. 

[DeccanTraps]

1 minute ago, Ikyr0 said:

there are enough endgame activities now. DE has been doing a great job lately on that front. 

No, you see some perfectly spherical tenno of uniform density in a frictionless vacum can acompish it by being near their controlls, so its not endgame enough!

Never mind that if it were 'End game enough' it'd take 10 thousand man hours to develop, 10 hours to play, and be relevant to a percent of a percent of the actual player base

[BernieBlack]

13 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

Its likely still a developing system, though it was mentioned that it wasn't a system for new players so definitely possible for it to be behind a high tier.

Um you need to think again as both were aimed at providing difficulty/challenge to people that were complaining about it. Railjack = stronger enemies, new systems to learn, and clearly aimed more towards difficulty (and co-op). SS = fighting waves of sentient enemies and/or doing the Railjack section of things. I specifically acknowledged how it was stated that Steel Path wasn't meant towards "endgame", but that it provides a difficulty spike that appeased tryhards for all of like a week or two before not being enough. I also have mentioned that these were attempts at chasing the illusion of the garbage that is "endgame". Steel Path is meant to be a side thing and if you truly focus in on the challenge angle, then that should be enough for you but ofc its not. Instead let's have them put something else in the mix that'll also fail to impress after a time, so your type can then complain about that too.

iirc the raids weren't really getting the traffic that warranted them, which goes towards the point of it being a select group. If they wanted to bring them back as a side-thing I wouldn't be against it, just so long as they were kept as a side-thing.

People like you are so entitled that you think content should be redirected from open to everyone to appeasing you, then going forward should be continually updated to keep you appeased even as unsustainable as it is. You want a nonstop parade of rewards which is also unsustainable. Anytime new content is put out, you burn through it then complain about it or just from the outset roll your eyes cause it isn't "punish me harder" content. You want to turn Warframe into a Nioh or Dark Souls (fk that).

100% are you serious right now? Liches ARE NOT casual content; Scarlet Spear was NOT casual content; Railjack is NOT casual content. If anything this shows how absolutely skewed your view of things is cause you have no idea of "casual". Then again you're clearly locked in the tryhard zone where anything not driving you into the ground is deemed as "casual". As far as I go if its kept to being a side-project, then I don't really give 2 cares about it; so long as it stays SIDE and not MAIN/CORE.

 

Railjack was/is a new system that had little to nothing to do with the frames and power we've collected already. Maybe it can be expanded to that, but right now it's a side content. Scarlet spear is an "event" and can't be considered endgame if it isn't accessible anymore. 

If my opinion is skewed its because I've actually played other online games that have done rewards and endgame better. Yes I want an endless parade of rewards because this isn't a single player game, its an online game! Yes I want challenging content because otherwise what's the point?! Yes I want exclusive rewards because thats what raids are! You act like they wont be tradeable like arcanes.

This game actually did have raids at one point, and they solved a lot of what people are asking for now. The only problem is DE forgot theyre an online game with constant updates and they needed more than 2 bosses, so people stopped playing the raids. Of course the numbers are going to be small if the content hasn't been expanded in years, who wants to fight the same boss for 2 years? 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 hours ago, Eyymily said:

It doesnt have to have armor, just enough health and/or non-removable damage reduction on top of armor

like i said, you can only get a one reward per encounter per day or week

the game is already trivialized, and if crashing the market is what it takes to have rewarding content, go for it

Yea sorry I dont think it's a bad idea, but something you can only do every week isn't really endgame, it'd be a 20 min pitstop is all I meant.

[CrimsonXX]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

If you play for stress relief, story, and general fun. Then your probably fine like me.

If you want a hardcore super hard game then your in the wrong game.

I'm the first for sure. Warframe is about fun, enjoying the aesthetic & genre, and exploring an interesting universe. Scifi-action rpg-lite in itself is a rarity

16 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Spoiler

 

Railjack was/is a new system that had little to nothing to do with the frames and power we've collected already. Maybe it can be expanded to that, but right now it's a side content. Scarlet spear is an "event" and can't be considered endgame if it isn't accessible anymore. 

If my opinion is skewed its because I've actually played other online games that have done rewards and endgame better. Yes I want an endless parade of rewards because this isn't a single player game, its an online game! Yes I want challenging content because otherwise what's the point?! Yes I want exclusive rewards because thats what raids are! You act like they wont be tradeable like arcanes.

This game actually did have raids at one point, and they solved a lot of what people are asking for now. The only problem is DE forgot theyre an online game with constant updates and they needed more than 2 bosses, so people stopped playing the raids. Of course the numbers are going to be small if the content hasn't been expanded in years, who wants to fight the same boss for 2 years? 

 

 

You do realize that logically that was probably the main way of seeing it as "endgame" attempt, it reduced certain aspects to increase difficulty; though the enemies involved on foot aren't exactly "easy" either. You seem to be missing the idea that these were attempts at chasing the illusion of "endgame", not fully finished things. They are/were still higher difficulty styled aimed at people that like you complain about the difficulty in the game.

Yeah, so have I. Which is why I don't complain about grind, so called "content droughts", or any number of other things because of my experience in playing MMORPG's. "endless parade of rewards" and how in the hell do you remotely think a company is going to be able to keep up with this nonstop? Its ridiculous. "otherwise what's the point" um having fun, enjoying the story, and exploring a universe. I'm pretty sure that raids are supposed to be about having fun with others and overcoming a challenge with them w/ rewards as a bonus. Once again I don't care about the rewards and if they're restricted or not.

They did indeed once upon a time and then because of lack of interaction as far as I'm aware they were closed. "Solved", um for some they did; others on the other hand complained just as much cause they finished them and wanted the next one. DE hasn't forgotten anything, they realize that there's a select group that play the raids and an entire spectrum of others playing the core game, which is the primary aspect that should be updated. Time and resources definitely shouldn't be sacrificed in order to go towards side-content.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, BernieBlack said:

Because you're an entitled S#&$ ruining this game, and your degree of selfishness is honestly mind blowing. You want every piece of gear then stop being a coward and do the content. This game can't last on casual farming forever, as proven by the dwindling numbers and the sellout to tencent. 

LOL. You clearly don't realize what that word means. The irony level is really really high. 

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Either way I know where you stand now for sure... You dont actually care about End Game... you clearly just want exclusive rewards...

Looks that way, doesn't it? 

[BernieBlack]

4 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

I'm the first for sure. Warframe is about fun, enjoying the aesthetic & genre, and exploring an interesting universe. Scifi-action rpg-lite in itself is a rarity

You do realize that logically that was probably the main way of seeing it as "endgame" attempt, it reduced certain aspects to increase difficulty; though the enemies involved on foot aren't exactly "easy" either. You seem to be missing the idea that these were attempts at chasing the illusion of "endgame", not fully finished things. They are/were still higher difficulty styled aimed at people that like you complain about the difficulty in the game.

Yeah, so have I. Which is why I don't complain about grind, so called "content droughts", or any number of other things because of my experience in playing MMORPG's. "endless parade of rewards" and how in the hell do you remotely think a company is going to be able to keep up with this nonstop? Its ridiculous. "otherwise what's the point" um having fun, enjoying the story, and exploring a universe. I'm pretty sure that raids are supposed to be about having fun with others and overcoming a challenge with them w/ rewards as a bonus. Once again I don't care about the rewards and if they're restricted or not.

They did indeed once upon a time and then because of lack of interaction as far as I'm aware they were closed. "Solved", um for some they did; others on the other hand complained just as much cause they finished them and wanted the next one. DE hasn't forgotten anything, they realize that there's a select group that play the raids and an entire spectrum of others playing the core game, which is the primary aspect that should be updated. Time and resources definitely shouldn't be sacrificed in order to go towards side-content.

I don't think you've honestly played another MMO if you think the idea of "keep up with this nonstop" is boggling to you. MMOs are all about updating content and "endless rewards." Just look at Destiny, FFXIV, WOW, POE. They keep up with it "nonstop" by adding a new raid and dungeons or whatever their form of content is semi-annually and adding a large scaled expansion every couple of years. That's just the territory of being an online game, you have to keep updating. If you don't want to keep updating, stick to a single player experience and don't market yourself as online. 

You keep skimming over the fact that the low interaction with raids was because DE never added more of them. Once again, you can't ask your playerbase to play the same 2 bosses for years and expect them to be happy. Yes, we wanted the next one because that's how raids work, and its common sense when you think about. 

Honestly, DE is really close to this I'm just surprised they haven't embraced it yet. Exploiter is a fantastic fight and is about the closest thing to raids we have right now. Ropalyst is also fairly close but its definitely on the lighter/casual side. The only problem with exploiter is its pretty much one and done. It share a loot table with profit-taker, which can be taken down a lot faster so people don't have a reason to do exploiter.

If DE would just take fights like the exploiter, eidolons and the jordas/vay hek raid they deleted, gave them their own rotating reward table like sorties/arcanes, made them accessible any time of the day and only rewarded daily/weekly, and kept adding more fights once or twice a year then the issue would be solved. We're not asking for much here. The fights don't have to be mind boggling. They just have to be: rewarding, accessible, rotating and updated. 

Right now as it stands though warframe is just several half-assed single player experiences mashed into one masquerading as a mmo-lite, and its disappointing because its art, story, and player choice are top notch.  

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, BernieBlack said:

MMOs are all about updating content and "endless rewards."

And clearly DE hasn't been regularly adding to the game, and apparently we're limited on how many times we can get most rewards. 🙄

Seriously, just flat out admit that all you care about is rushing more rewards and you'll have an easier time. Don't try to make bogus arguments about it. 

[BernieBlack]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

LOL. You clearly don't realize what that word means. The irony level is really really high. 

>Plays a looter mmo, expects mmo level of rewards/content, considered selfish. 

>Wants every content to be accessible to everyone, demands that no content can be challenging, and IF its even slightly challenging it can't have worthwhile rewards, veterans aren't allowed to content worth doing: "Yeah that seems right, nothing wrong there."

[BernieBlack]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And clearly DE hasn't been regularly adding to the game, and apparently we're limited on how many times we can get most rewards. 🙄

Seriously, just flat out admit that all you care about is rushing more rewards and you'll have an easier time. Don't try to make bogus arguments about it. 

The daily/weekly "limit" exists in every mmo, otherwise you have the problem that warframe has now where people burn through the content and move on.

I'm not sure what you mean by "rushing more rewards," what I'm asking for is semi-challenging content WORTH doing. Again, EVERY successful mmo has done this, I don't understand why this needs repeating. Just give us back raids, give us a new raid once or twice a year, give them a reward table like sorties or what arcanes were before eidolons, and we'd all be happy. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, BernieBlack said:

>Plays a looter mmo, expects mmo level of rewards/content, considered selfish. 

>Wants every content to be accessible to everyone, demands that no content can be challenging, and IF its even slightly challenging it can't have worthwhile rewards, veterans aren't allowed to content worth doing: "Yeah that seems right, nothing wrong there."

Who said that it shouldn't be challenging? Did you really find steel path to be a significant challenge? The eidolons and ropalolyst have challenges in them, especially if you aren't cheesing them with metas. When's the last time you decided to solo the eidolons with anything that does not qualify as meta? 

Or did you go meta, grind for a while and quit once you had your fill of loot and stop? 

Be honest with yourself. And maybe realise that for a developer, you kinda gotta expect them to follow the money. And that money is concentrated among the newbs, mid tier players, casuals and not among the couple percent of us who have gotten to a higher level. 

2 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "rushing more rewards," what I'm asking for is semi-challenging content WORTH doing. Again, EVERY successful mmo has done this, I don't understand why this needs repeating. Just give us back raids, give us a new raid once or twice a year, give them a reward table like sorties or what arcanes were before eidolons, and we'd all be happy. 

Pretty sure that it's as plain as can be. And you tied your concept of "worth" to your desire for 'new rewards'. 

How many people do you think actually did raids? Especially multi hour ones. The mode died. It wasn't drawing numbers, so they killed it. You're demanding something that only a tiny percentage of a vocal minority even wants, but taking it further by demanding limited resources be put into making new ones as well. But you don't see that as entitled? 

Come on man. 

[BernieBlack]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Who said that it shouldn't be challenging? Did you really find steel path to be a significant challenge? The eidolons and ropalolyst have challenges in them, especially if you aren't cheesing them with metas. When's the last time you decided to solo the eidolons with anything that does not qualify as meta? 

Or did you go meta, grind for a while and quit once you had your fill of loot and stop? 

Be honest with yourself. And maybe realise that for a developer, you kinda gotta expect them to follow the money. And that money is concentrated among the newbs, mid tier players, casuals and not among the couple percent of us who have gotten to a higher level. 

Pretty sure that it's as plain as can be. And you tied your concept of "worth" to your desire for 'new rewards'. 

How many people do you think actually did raids? Especially multi hour ones. The mode died. It wasn't drawing numbers, so they killed it. You're demanding something that only a tiny percentage of a vocal minority even wants, but taking it further by demanding limited resources be put into making new ones as well. But you don't see that as entitled? 

Come on man. 

Okay at this point I'm just repeating myself and you're not seeing me. Online games can't just cater to one audience, you have to include the vets. This isn't just a theory, we're already seeing the results of that. When railjack wasn't what it was promised to be, a large number of players left, stopped making content, and the shareholders put the game up for sale. There's been a resurgence since tennocon, but if Deimos turns out to be another island like PoE or Fortuna, the game will be back to the same sad state it is now, till tencent either fixes it or runs it to the ground. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

12 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Okay at this point I'm just repeating myself and you're not seeing me. Online games can't just cater to one audience, you have to include the vets. This isn't just a theory, we're already seeing the results of that. When railjack wasn't what it was promised to be, a large number of players left, stopped making content, and the shareholders put the game up for sale. There's been a resurgence since tennocon, but if Deimos turns out to be another island like PoE or Fortuna, the game will be back to the same sad state it is now, till tencent either fixes it or runs it to the ground. 

Let's emphasize that bolded part, shall we? Because that's exactly what you proceeded to ask for. 

And here is the rub, vets, especially the "I grind hard and rush all new content" vets, are a minority of the minority. 

And guess what? They're also the ones who love to complain about not having new content, or not having endgame content, or not wanting to play unless they are given more and more and more rewards. The newbs look at the game and many probably think "wtf just getting through some of the game takes years and they're always adding new stuff, how the heck am I ever going to catch up". 

Also, just for the record, I live on an island. There are still parts that I have never seen. 

[Cephalon_Saryndipity]

 I think endgame will be the New War in some way. Or at least connected. Steel Path is almost end game, maybe just adjust the rewards to reflect that. 

[BernieBlack]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Let's emphasize that bolded part, shall we? Because that's exactly what you proceeded to ask for. 

And here is the rub, vets, especially the "I grind hard and rush all new content" vets, are a minority of the minority. 

And guess what? They're also the ones who love to complain about not having new content, or not having endgame content, or not wanting to play unless they are given more and more and more rewards. The newbs look at the game and many probably think "wtf just getting through some of the game takes years and they're always adding new stuff, how the heck am I ever going to catch up". 

Also, just for the record, I live on an island. There are still parts that I have never seen. 

Adding raids is not going to shift the focus. You can have both. Shocking, I know, but you can make content for vets without leaving the casuals behind. There already exists a plethora of content for them that adding one bit of content for the veteran audience won't break the game.

But no, anytime the idea is brought up the same tired old complaints come up. "I dont want to feel obligated to do this. That looks too hard. The rewards should be easier. If I can't do it, then it shouldn't exist." 

And you've already brought up the impending problem with this game, it has such a hard time attracting new players with the wall of grind ahead of them that if this game doesn't start showing veteran players some love the playerbase will erode.

Veterans are perfectly happy to exist alongside casuals i don't understand why the reverse can't be true.

[Hypernaut1]

everyone knows exactly what endgame is until they become a game developer.

Same goes for balance and "bug free" update.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

42 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Adding raids is not going to shift the focus. You can have both. Shocking, I know, but you can make content for vets without leaving the casuals behind. There already exists a plethora of content for them that adding one bit of content for the veteran audience won't break the game.

Let's try that bolded part again: Online games can't just cater to one audience. 

You'd think that someone who says that won't immediately follow up by going on about why he wants them to cater to one very, very small group, wouldn't you? 

42 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

And you've already brought up the impending problem with this game, it has such a hard time attracting new players with the wall of grind ahead of them that if this game doesn't start showing veteran players some love the playerbase will erode

Not at all. They attract lots of newbs. The numbers of registered Tenno keeps going up. But as with any f2p game most won't stick with it. The game keeps growing, and peaks around Tennocon and dips when other games release. And regarding the whole 'the game is dying/will die without the small group I belong to' thing, people had been saying that years before I joined. I'm pretty sure that it stopped sounding good even to the doomsayers long ago. 

8 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

everyone knows exactly what endgame is until they become a game developer.

Or until they are asked to actually define it. 

[BernieBlack]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Let's try that bolded part again: Online games can't just cater to one audience.  

Yes, ignoring everything I typed and repeating yourself will make it true. 

Once again, I'm not asking for one or the other, both can exist in unison. This isn't gigabrained. Every other online game hasn't figured this out, I trust DE has the resource to do it themselves. 

The problem is DE wants to treat this like several single players games instead of one cohesive online service. 

[DeccanTraps]

The problem with "End game" (Beyond those I mentioned before regarding developer time and expected revenue per man hour of same) is that in saying "This is what the game is for, this is what you were training for" you are also saying "Every thing before this is a glorified tutorial, race though it like a speed run to get to End game'' which serves to devalue all that other content and create a sence "Its not worth doing if its not speeding you towards end game" and contributes to the elitist type gate keeping that makes comunities unwelcoming to new players and ensures the ones who do stick around? They get funnled fast at that self same end game.

It debases all the other content.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

42 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Yes, ignoring everything I typed and repeating yourself will make it true. 

Once again, I'm not asking for one or the other, both can exist in unison. This isn't gigabrained. Every other online game hasn't figured this out, I trust DE has the resource to do it themselves. 

The problem is DE wants to treat this like several single players games instead of one cohesive online service. 

Nope I'm pointing out that what you said made what you said untrue. 🙂

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

I'd say that the Infested room system is kinda endgame. By having a reason to keep non Primed warframes to feed a system that gives you more choice for abilities on all warframes is kinda "endgame"

I'll take more customization, this system is refreshing, gives me reasons to go back and farm all the warframes and gives you alot of choice. 

In my opinion: were getting some endgame content this month. 

[Amazing_Miggles]

To me, 'Endgame' in Warframe would be yet another satisfying reveal that ties everything together like the War Within. It was a culmination of everything that we've worked for up until that point, with all the seemingly-disjointed enemies and missions suddenly making sense- but instead of being an 'end' to the game, it heralded the end of an age. 

Now, what with the Orokin characters in Requiem mods being shown by spacestepmum, I hope to see more of these lore tie-ins and clean-ups happening with Heart of Deimos and allow us to feel that surge of accomplishment once more.

It's not about having better gears than other people, or having the patience to run 3-hour survival games, or roll god-roll rivens. It's frankly about making sense of all the repetitive grind and giving it meaning!

That's the kind of 'endgame' I want to see more from Warframe moving forward. Get to work, writers!