Auction in warframe and why we need a market system rework

[-GC-Alex51-GC-]

Today  I selling  my pretty  good  rivets for Rubiko and spend  around  5 hours  to sell it . And I'm start thinking  : what if we have an auction  system  in Warframe ? 

You take your Loki system for example  , set it in auction  terminal , which  be based  in relays and sell it for 200 plat . Game automatically add it in item base and you just go play with your friends  . 

After some time you see , that someone  bought  Loki system for 200 , and you got 90% of sum (10% take auction  terminal ).

It can be really  , really  good  thing  to game . 

[WhiteMarker]

https://forums.warframe.com/search/?q=auction house&quick=1

[-FrutyX-]

https://warframe.market/

Easy.

[(XBOX)Random Brit7900]

https://forums.warframe.com/search/?q=auction house&quick=1

 

[-GC-Alex51-GC-]

5 minutes ago, -FrutyX- said:

https://warframe.market/

Easy.

Nope its doesn't  . You need to fly in dojo . With auction  u just post an item  and wait  . 

[-GC-Alex51-GC-]

14 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

https://forums.warframe.com/search/?q=auction house&quick=1

What is this ? 

[Veridian]

Bingo!

What a close call, almost missed this week's.

[(NSW)Rafa-el]

An auction like  world of warcraft, is so good this system.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Already have one OP. Warframe market place. Go nuts. 

[WhiteMarker]

34 minutes ago, alex51xx said:

What is this ? 

This is the link to a search for "auction house" using the forum's search function showing you that you are far from being the first suggesting this.
You can use that link to read about all the arguments for and against an auction house.
And you will see that you brought up no reasoning at all why DE should implement such a thing. And remember: DE doesn't want an auction house, because they want people to interact with each other. And auction house would remove that interaction. So your reasoning should be mighty fine.

[trst]

Y'see your problem is thinking a Loki systems would ever go for 200p with an AH system.

Imagine for a second just how many people that are actively playing have a Loki systems in their inventory right now and how many duplicates they might have. Now imagine the inconvenience of manual trading is removed and all of these people can list their systems with a few button clicks. Then realize that every single player only ever needs a single Loki Prime systems ever unless it becomes a syndicate rank up sacrifice and the players who build multiple copies of a single frame are in a staggering minority.

That Loki systems would be worth around 10p, if even that much, within days.

Warframe doesn't have the game systems to support a functional game economy without supply and demand being artificially set by one's current instance of trade chat. Simply because every tradeable resource we have has a finite number of uses and applications while there are zero restrictions on the amount of supply players could accumulate. There are no resource sinks in our gear nor do we have limited inventory space.

The only things that could survive would be abysmally rare drops and long-term grind items like Arcanes (until SS drops again) or Rivens.

And even if this is just doom posting just having the risk of crashing the entire platinum "economy" we do have is a risk that could destroy all monetization potential via the trading system which isn't a good thing for anyone.

[Voltage]

The point of the current system is that you need to spend time to get that premium currency. If players just had to click a button and wait around, Platinum wouldn't be enticing to be purchased for real money, especially on PC with the heavily inflated economy compared to consoles.

[0_The_F00l]

I support all requests and discussions for an auction house. 

[(XBOX)Random Brit7900]

2 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I support all requests and discussions for an auction house. 

Why exactly?

[0_The_F00l]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)Random Brit7900 said:

Why exactly?

Because it

1) Already exists as a third party option,

2) will reduce players staring at a chat screen for hours and actually play the game,

3) can be a good plat sink if done correctly by implementing a taxation method.

 

[WhiteMarker]

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

1) Already exists as a third party option,

Only to some extent as you still have to engage in a trading session.
And this third party is exactly what DE wants to happen. Players making stuff happen so that the game feels more alive.

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

2) will reduce players staring at a chat screen for hours and actually play the game,

Fair, but I feel there are enough people playing the game. I'm always finding a party. And dead nodes would not get populated this way. So pretty difficult to say if this is a good reasoning.

11 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

3) can be a good plat sink if done correctly by implementing a taxation method.

And people would start ranting and crying about their valuable plat getting wasted.
And then there is the thing with DE being troubled balancing things. So that "if" is not just pretty big, it's a ginormous if.

Edit:
Last but not least: An auction house is a pretty obvious idea. DE decided against it when making the trading system. And they didn't implement an auction house until now. I don't see them change their mind. 
I mean, the current system works fine. There is no reason to change the trading system. There is no reason to make it easier to get premium currency as DE, as a business, wants us to pay for plat...

[CaptainMinty]

The way I see it, an auction house would increase the convenience for both the seller, and the buyer. A seller could slot X number of items according to Mastery to sell, the buyer could peruse the market to find the exact item they want, in game with a simple search function. There is 0 reason for us not to have this kind of feature in game. It would make traders' lives so much easier. DE deciding not to do it actually makes me upset because it would actually give the market more life. More people would be active in it, and while that will drive prices for some items down, overall more plat would get moving through the system. The more platinum that moves, the more likely people are to spend that platinum. And when it gets spent, someone is gonna buy more. If stuff is more affordable, people are more likely to buy it. I have never seen any really good arguments against adding a feature that improves trading for all players. The argument I often see is people saying that the prices on items will drop because more people are in the market. Yes. That is a good thing. I don't understand why people think it would be bad. You would lose some profit off items, but you'd move more items quicker. Because more people would use the system because it would be much easier.

I know its anecdotal, but I currently do not use the trading system in place because of how awfully tedious it is. If it was simpler and I could list items and people could buy them without me having to abandon or take the time out of playing with my friends or my grind, I'd love it. I'd use it constantly. It would respect my time more. I don't have an hour to sit around and sell stuff. I wanna play a game. Lemme do both.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

It's too late in the game to implement this now. The potential risk just isn't worth it just to appease some people that hate "staring at a screen" (they're already staring at a screen while playing the game). 

People in favor already admitted it would cause a crash, yet claim it's good....lol. 

"Yea just cause a massive upheaval, it's no big deal I wanna play the game!"

Real decisions have nuanced effects that have to be considered besides just you wanting to have an easier time: 

PC, PS4, XBOX, and Switch all have different economies, and DE will have to oversee the chaos that ensues in each one.

How are they gonna handle discounts? Will all the plat prices on the market have to be adjusted? By how much?

How much is the plat tax gonna be? What is gonna decide this number and how is it gonna scale with large purchases versus small purchases? 

How will this affect Prime access with the inevitable price drops? 

There's probably 20 more questions that go along with this as well. 

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

Only to some extent as you still have to engage in a trading session.
And this third party is exactly what DE wants to happen. Players making stuff happen so that the game feels more alive.

I have not seen DE actively endorsing any third party site (except that one time they said "you can wiki it" as a joke), so i do not know what is actually going through their head.

They have allowed the use of APIs to get an idea of trade prices in the game (the same used by many of the bots to get an estimate using trends)

I don't know about you , but having to go to a wiki / third party site does not make me feel the game is alive , it makes me feel the game is lacking in core features.

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

Fair, but I feel there are enough people playing the game. I'm always finding a party. And dead nodes would not get populated this way. So pretty difficult to say if this is a good reasoning.

That is a different issue in and of itself , i cant remember the last time i did any regular star chart mission that was not a fissure or a kuva siphon.

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

And people would start ranting and crying about their valuable plat getting wasted.

And then there is the thing with DE being troubled balancing things. So that "if" is not just pretty big, it's a ginormous if.

Hah! what a joke , wastage implies it has any actual value outside of trading or cosmetics. I too am part of the player base and i would happily fork over a part of the platinum earned if i can sell my random junk consistently. The player base is large , not everyone will whine , many will support as well.

I do agree DE does suck terribly at getting the numbers right at economy setting. But seems they have now adopted the "keep it bad for players at start and adjust it over time" approach. Maybe they will start at 50% tax and go down from there :P

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

Last but not least: An auction house is a pretty obvious idea. DE decided against it when making the trading system. And they didn't implement an auction house until now. I don't see them change their mind. 

I mean, the current system works fine. There is no reason to change the trading system. There is no reason to make it easier to get premium currency as DE, as a business, wants us to pay for plat...

You really want to bet on DE not changing their mind? Cause i sure as hell will not. "They said so in the past and so it will stay that way" is definitely the least of your arguments. There are quite a few examples of DE going back on their word as well as making changes to existing systems as the game evolved. They are extremely stingy when it comes to giving players convenience , but when the inconvenience becomes impediment they will bend and meet the demand.

If the System works fine there would not be the weekly requests for auction houses and the Forum bingo card with "add auction houses" as one of the blocks :P

And as i said , if implemented right there will be more trade and so better consistent plat sink through tax.

 

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

It's too late in the game to implement this now. The potential risk just isn't worth it just to appease some people that hate "staring at a screen" (they're already staring at a screen while playing the game). 

People in favor already admitted it would cause a crash, yet claim it's good....lol. 

"Yea just cause a massive upheaval, it's no big deal I wanna play the game!"

Real decisions have nuanced effects that have to be considered besides just you wanting to have an easier time: 

PC, PS4, XBOX, and Switch all have different economies, and DE will have to oversee the chaos that ensues in each one.

How are they gonna handle discounts? Will all the plat prices on the market have to be adjusted? By how much?

How much is the plat tax gonna be? What is gonna decide this number and how is it gonna scale with large purchases versus small purchases? 

How will this affect Prime access with the inevitable price drops? 

There's probably 20 more questions that go along with this as well. 

Questions that can be answered, relatively easy if DE made an actual effort to support the FREE side of their free to play game.

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Hah! what a joke , wastage implies it has any actual value outside of trading or cosmetics. I too am part of the player base and i would happily fork over a part of the platinum earned if i can sell my random junk consistently. The player base is large , not everyone will whine , many will support as well.

Oh, we are talking about real people here. They will whine if they find a reason to do it. And a big change to the trading system with taxes ON PLAT will make people whine for sure.

3 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I do agree DE does suck terribly at getting the numbers right at economy setting. But seems they have now adopted the "keep it bad for players at start and adjust it over time" approach. Maybe they will start at 50% tax and go down from there :P

But can they effort the backlash?
And what's to gain for them to justify such a big change? óÒ

4 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

You really want to bet on DE not changing their mind? Cause i sure as hell will not. "They said so in the past and so it will stay that way" is definitely the least of your arguments. There are quite a few examples of DE going back on their word as well as making changes to existing systems as the game evolved. They are extremely stingy when it comes to giving players convenience , but when the inconvenience becomes impediment they will bend and meet the demand.

If the System works fine there would not be the weekly requests for auction houses and the Forum bingo card with "add auction houses" as one of the blocks :P

Yes and no.
I say the system works fine because they still haven't changed the trading system. I assume there are enough trades at any point in time that it's safe to call the system fine.
And the bingo card thing can be said about Excal Prime aswell. But he isn't coming back...

6 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

And as i said , if implemented right there will be more trade and so better consistent plat sink through tax.

Just wondering: How is it done right? You are pretty vague about it as if you don't know what you are talking about (this comes of more harsh than it's meant to sound. I just don't know how to word it properly)

[Hardwood]

Screw auction houses, I want a group finder.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Questions that can be answered, relatively easy if DE made an actual effort to support the FREE side of their free to play game.

What does that even mean? 

[Shalath]

You can't have an AH if the currency is tied to real-world money like plat is because it is extremely risky. If prices tank, and lets face it most vets have several duplicates of just about everything they could capet-bomb any such auction house with, then plat sales dry up which would hurt DE. The only answer to the -1 war that would start woult be trade tax as 0_The_F00l suggests. At that point it isn't a free market anymore as DE are indirectly setting the prices. This is the exact reason other games with an AH use an in-game currency for buy/sell orders because if it goes badly it doesn't affect their revenue stream and they can control how much of the in-game currency is in circulation.

If DE did add an AH and it went badly it isn't like they can just take it away again if it does go wrong.

There are several reasons ahy DE want face-to-face sales but one of the biggest is they don't want you logging in, listing or buying something and logging off. They want to see healthy numbers of players logging in each day and spending time in the game as not only does that make the game feel well populated but they can report on those numbers to their investors as a guide on how healthy the game is too.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

Oh, we are talking about real people here. They will whine if they find a reason to do it. And a big change to the trading system with taxes ON PLAT will make people whine for sure.

Let them whine , i will salt my popcorn with their tears. Purchasing plat is by itself an investment.

1 hour ago, WhiteMarker said:

But can they effort the backlash?
And what's to gain for them to justify such a big change? óÒ

Yes and no.
I say the system works fine because they still haven't changed the trading system. I assume there are enough trades at any point in time that it's safe to call the system fine.
And the bingo card thing can be said about Excal Prime aswell. But he isn't coming back...

Just wondering: How is it done right? You are pretty vague about it as if you don't know what you are talking about (this comes of more harsh than it's meant to sound. I just don't know how to word it properly)

That's why they need to do it right , they don't need to replace the existing system , they can augment it.

I had made a suggestion quite some time back but i cant find it at the moment - may have been in another persons thread.

But here is the summary (any and all numbers are representative only):

On reaching MR 4 players are permitted to open their own store ,

They are given 5 slots for market items and more can be purchased for plat (and only plat purchases are allowed in stores).

you can have 1 item with 10 quantities per slot (eg you can sell 10 heart nyth gems from same slot)

Once placed items cannot removed from shop inventory for 24 hours and are no longer in your inventory,

Item will have two options attached to sale price,

  1) Outright sale - a Fixed price is put next to item (can have multiple quantities per slot)

  2) Auction - a minimum price is put next to item (cannot have multiple quantities per slot)

  In case of outright sale you will be charged 30% (rounded up) or 1p of the sale as tax (whichever is higher)

  In case of Auction you will be charged 25% of minimum price + 15% of difference (rounded up)  or 1 p (whichever is higher)

Taxes are applied on total items purchased at a time.

Here is a sample table:

Item	Quantity	Price per item (values in platinum)	Tax to DE (per item)	profit to trader	Comments
Heart Nyth	8	outright 2p	1p -	minimum 8p (8 different players buy only 1 each) maximum 11p (1 player buys all 8)	here trader makes more if someone buys all his materials together in bulk
Rhino prime blueprint	1	Auction 100p	25p +	minimum 75p , maximum subjective to final auction	Here Trader will get atleast 75p , the higher the bid goes the more he gets but so does DE
fang prime handle	1	Outright 3p	1p	2p	flat profit and flat tax

 

When a buyer adds his interest in the auction , his platinum is "reserved" and after the end of the auction it is either returned (if he lost) or deducted (if he won)- if your price is beaten you can top it to match but you cannot reduce or remove it till the auction is over, NO BACKSIES!.

Participating in auctions counts towards the daily trade limit - topping existing auctions does not.

Auctions last for 24 hours.

This is of course simplified, more features and better scrutiny can be done along with additional features and more parameters added.