Personal opinion about the current game engine

[SneakyErvin]

The reason they use it is because it is their very own engine. That alone is a massive advantage on its own. If they know the engine like the back of their hand, things that may look difficult and messy for others is easy for them. Currently WF is probably the smoothest game experience I've had in the last 20 years since they know what they are doing with their own engine and because they update it constantly.

The biggest issue with WF is how multiplayer is handled, nothing else, it is the main reason for poor performance overall. So if you have alot of FPS drops etc. and dont run the game on a potato, chances are you run multiplayer alot. A further update to the engine wouldnt help with that. And we arent sitting on a early 2000 engine in 2020, since the engine has gone through the same updates other engines do, DE simply doesnt change the name on it for each new update to it and they make use of the change in the current game as opposed to game made in say UE3, that are stuck with that version until the end mostly, since UE3 and UE4 arent interchangable in the same way.

There is a reason the WF engine is called Evolution engine, since it evolves and can be used in its evolved state in an old game and not need a sequal to be utilized.

[Felsagger]

39 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

 

Indeed. It's much better. I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of Minecraft's longevity was due to the fact that you can get into, change and add on to every single piece of the code. Minecraft has its limitations, but it is supremely moddable. That's why I've stuck around - it wouldn't have anywhere near as much appeal for me without things like Thaumcraft, Ars Magica or Rotarycraft (incidentally, all of which are best off in an older version of Minecraft - which you can still use).

Most of the problems I have with Warframe are things that I could fix quite easily on my own if it were as moddable and had as much freedom to choose versions as Minecraft does. For instance, I'd have just kept melee 2.0 (the version shortly after release before glaives and gunblades got the nerfbat), the old rendering code and would quite happily mod out some of the more obnoxious additions like the inexplicable 10^-3 damage multiplier on corpus treasurers, the exploding machineguns on corpus fodder swarm enemies and the status immunity/nullicancer plague which enemies seem to suffer from.

Minecraft a voxel based construction game. 

War Frame a ARPG game. 

 

 

[Lion]

Nothing wrong with the engine IMO.

 

Graphics are great and the optimization is insane, I can't think of many games where I can push the graphics to the max while still pushing 200+ FPS during normal gameplay.

You have to understand that this game at its core is still a fast paced mission based game, which means a true open world (on the scale of games you mentioned, like Botw) does not mesh well with the current flow of the game.

 

The engine is not the bottleneck here, the evolution engine is very powerful and very flexible.

 

The latest bugs are pretty much a direct result of a lack of testing on DE's end. They just do not play and test their content enough, they seem to take a release now and maybe fix later approach.

[OniDax]

Yes, the Evolution engine is trash. Will there be a major upgrade to it? No. Don't believe anyone who tries to make you think it's the best engine ever, or that it's highly optimized, or that it's not filled with spaghetti code, or that it isn't outdated, or that it has the best graphics in the industry. All these things have been said about the Evolution engine. It's not true at this point. Some of it used to be true (like the optimization), but that's no longer the case.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

26 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Who talked about switching engines? 

 

Oh, an engine upgrade, my apologies. They are already making steps to optimize the experience. They're not stupid, they know what they're doing. It doesn't take some dude making a thread way after the knowledge has been obtained lol.

[Felsagger]

"Currently WF is probably the smoothest game experience I've had in the last 20 years"

 

 Titan Fall 2 says hi. 

 

[Lion]

10 minutes ago, OniDax said:

Yes, the Evolution engine is trash. Will there be a major upgrade to it? No. Don't believe anyone who tries to make you think it's the best engine ever, or that it's highly optimized, or that it's not filled with spaghetti code, or that it isn't outdated, or that it has the best graphics in the industry. All these things have been said about the Evolution engine. It's not true at this point. Some of it used to be true (like the optimization), but that's no longer the case.

Can you give some examples you've experienced for bad optimization?

 

Just speaking from personal experience I've had an overall pretty good experience, warframe even runs well on my Surface Pro 4 which definitely does not meet the recommended or minimum specs for the game.

[Syln]

The worst issue i have with this game engine is from the finisher animation : most of the time you stab/crush/shred everything but you enemy during the animation (special mention for the kuva lich that litteraly disappear into the ground.)

[Oggyswe]

3 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

What Minecraft has going for it is the game's timeless art style.

what Minecraft has going for it is a fun gameplay loop and creativity. the artstyle is never why i played the game. nor anyone i know either

[Raso719]

I didn't think there were still gamers out there who were mega tools like this. I thought we had gotten past the graphics obsessed, CoDBRO era of gaming. Maybe I just moved on and wrongly assumed other gamers followed suit. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

"Currently WF is probably the smoothest game experience I've had in the last 20 years"

Titan Fall 2 says hi. 

 

The word was "smoothest" and you link a console video of Titanfall 2 as some counter argument? A game that is also not a horde shooter that needs to run smoothly with far more mobs on the screen at the same time while also calculating incoming and outgoing damage from those same amounts of enemies at any given time. Remember the old Saryn spore performance issues?

What exactly did you try to point out with that video even? All I see and experience is nauseating (literally, so thanks for that) 30fps.

[Corvid]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The word was "smoothest" and you link a console video of Titanfall 2 as some counter argument? A game that is also not a horde shooter that needs to run smoothly with far more mobs on the screen at the same time while also calculating incoming and outgoing damage from those same amounts of enemies at any given time. Remember the old Saryn spore performance issues?

What exactly did you try to point out with that video even? All I see and experience is nauseating (literally, so thanks for that) 30fps.

Just an FYI, the 30FPS is from the video. The game runs at 60 on consoles.

[Teljaxx]

Warframe is like a hoarder's house. Its got seven plus years of garbage piled up in it, because they have never gotten the chance to throw out all the stuff that turned out to be useless. And there comes a point when you have to ask yourself, is it easier to clean out the house? Or should I just move to an entirely new place?

This is why I have been saying DE should just make a sequel already. Stop adding more and more junk to the current overflowing dumpster, and just start fresh. It would give them a chance to do a proper engine upgrade or change, untangle all their spaghetti code, and leave out all the crazy ideas that they tried, but ultimately didn't work out. And, they could start fresh with the game balance, and keep powercreep from running rampant and ruining all the fun. They could actually design a proper power fantasy, instead of simply relying on pointlessly huge numbers to create the illusion of power, like now.

[Aadi880]

4 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

I've come to the conclusion that for a better game experience, the core game engine needs upgrades, We know for a fact that this game is not designed for "open world", now they started calling it "landscapes" bcs its clearly not an open world, an open world game is something like Zelda BOTW or red dead redemption 2, and if we are going take that path, the duviri paradox needs to feel like playing a real open world or just make it a classic cinematic quest like the second dream. 

Doing open worlds on a corridor base engines is not an impossible nor uncommon venture.

Ya'll remember the source engine? Its quite literally the same stuff at play (even though Evolution is a derivative of the unreal engine, it does use very similar algorithms).

Valve did it with the source engine, purely by making the landscape pyramidal. You can see it in both of their danger zone maps in CSGO, along with the use of fog to IMPROVE performance and user-experience.

 

There are quite a lot of ways these can be pulled off, even with procedural generation.

 

Using the above example, Fogs have the tendency to make things feel bigger than they actually are (This is not cheap design mind you). If you remove the fog in danger zone, it will immediately feel smaller.

 

I feel like each open-world is a step up from the others. PoE was the first. Orb vallis is just significantly bigger with mountains that hides the background. Deimos has procedural generation in its isolation vaults. It is quite possible for the next open world (Hopefully Duviri) will be entirely procedurally generated (and therefore, potentially infinite which would make sense honestly).

Given that they are reducing the filesize by half to improve loading times, I don't think its out of the question.

[HoustonDragon]

Never understood the obsession over Unity. Played several games that used it who ended up with serious development issues and horrible optimization.

 

Personally, Warframe is an exceptionally visually striking game, and plays extremely well and smoothly without crazy hardware requirements. There's the occasional lag (which happens with any online MMO), but considering how quickly things like loading screens and transfer times are, I'm enjoying it just time.

 

I'd rather they spend their time and efforts on actual content.

[Electropuncher]

Engine swapping is a massive endeavor, and if you've ever seen Steve's streams, you'll have seen just how insane some of the animation/sound trees get. Swapping engines would just mean completely redoing literally ALL of that. Like every. single. thing. It's not just cut and paste.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The word was "smoothest" and you link a console video of Titanfall 2 as some counter argument? A game that is also not a horde shooter that needs to run smoothly with far more mobs on the screen at the same time while also calculating incoming and outgoing damage from those same amounts of enemies at any given time. Remember the old Saryn spore performance issues?

What exactly did you try to point out with that video even? All I see and experience is nauseating (literally, so thanks for that) 30fps.

 

This is a path that I will not walk for the second time. 

 

Find someone else to converse. 

 

 

[VanFanel1980mx]

7 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The evolution engine sucks hard to be honest. DE must renew it or somehow improve over what they have. 

 

Once the PS5 releases and the other consoles and video cards War Frame needs to to keep up with the graphic department. In few years this game will look like a generic portable phone game. 

I am less concerned about the graphics and more about the poor optimization this game has where they implement of change something and then break stuff that can even be completely unrelated to what they changed.

[Corvid]

7 minutes ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

I am less concerned about the graphics and more about the poor optimization this game has where they implement of change something and then break stuff that can even be completely unrelated to what they changed.

That sort of stuff happens regardless of what engine you use. It's also not really an optimisation issue. It's a direct consequence of continuously updating a game of this scale.

Coding is a complex beast. I recommend Code Bullet's video on making an AI to play Tetris to see just how many creative ways even a relatively simple game can break in development.

[OllyDG]

the engine is *fine*. it's not the best engine ever but it works for warframe and will continue to work for warframe as it has for the past 7 years. bugs are bugs, there's no game in existence without bugs.

[OniDax]

5 hours ago, Lion said:

Can you give some examples you've experienced for bad optimization?

 

Just speaking from personal experience I've had an overall pretty good experience, warframe even runs well on my Surface Pro 4 which definitely does not meet the recommended or minimum specs for the game.

Weird FPS drops and high temps in the open worlds and certain tilesets (mainly the newer ones).

[VanFanel1980mx]

14 minutes ago, Corvid said:

That sort of stuff happens regardless of what engine you use. It's also not really an optimisation issue. It's a direct consequence of continuously updating a game of this scale.

Coding is a complex beast. I recommend Code Bullet's video on making an AI to play Tetris to see just how many creative ways even a relatively simple game can break in development.

A primitive engine makes that even harder and more noticeable, but then again is not like I didn't expect people to defend it regardless.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

A primitive engine makes that even harder and more noticeable,

How do you define an engine as being "Primitive"? If your standard is the age of the code in it, then pretty much every engine in use today is primitive.

2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

but then again is not like I didn't expect people to defend it regardless.

Perhaps you should consider that they may have a good reason for doing so.

[SilentMobius]

11 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

 there is literally no excuse for DE to use an outdated engine from early 2000s in 2020, If we are expecting something like the duviri paradox to be this mind blowing experience,

Have you even created anything in Unity or Unreal? have you ever written anything from scratch in D3D or OpenGL?

I have, and trust me when I say there is no way whatsoever that DE will ever have the time, or money to rewrite Warframe from scratch in a 3rd party engine. it just will never happen.

I'm not trying to change your opinion, just trying to manage your expectations. You can want it as much as you like, but I've been a professional software dev since 1996 and I'm telling you it will never happen.

[Felsagger]

19 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

Have you even created anything in Unity or Unreal? have you ever written anything from scratch in D3D or OpenGL?

I have, and trust me when I say there is no way whatsoever that DE will ever have the time, or money to rewrite Warframe from scratch in a 3rd party engine. it just will never happen.

I'm not trying to change your opinion, just trying to manage your expectations. You can want it as much as you like, but I've been a professional software dev since 1996 and I'm telling you it will never happen.

 

Yes, that's true. It will never happen, but....

 

 

You do realize that War Frame looks like a generic baked potato portable cellphone app game, right?