Personal opinion about the current game engine

[Corvid]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes, but it is still a completely different game.

Irrelevant. You were complaining specifically about the framerate (describing it as "Nauseating 30FPS"), I explained why that is not a problem with the game, but with the clip.

[Felsagger]

5 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

 

Is this what top mobile graphics has to offer? No volumetric lighting, reflections, real time shadows, TAA anti aliasing, Fog,  

Yeah I think I am not waste my time here arguing. Toodles!
 

Suffice to say that a game like Horizon Zero Dawn looks way better than War Frame. A game that is almost five years old. 

 

"If you dont want a conversation with people, dont quote or ninja quote them in the first place, easy as that. I had no intent whatsoever to direct any comments towards you, but you just couldnt stear clear from actually quoting something I said."

Corvid, I wonder how can anyone ninja quote any user here when everyone sees the board. I'm deeply puzzled, lmao. Besides the frame rate that such guy was running the game was over 60 frames per second. The user explained his setup on one of the videos If I don't remember well. 

[Lion]

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 

Yes, that's true. It will never happen, but....

 

 

You do realize that War Frame looks like a generic baked potato portable cellphone app game, right? 

 

 

 

Find me a game on mobile that has the same graphics as warframe lol. The prerendered fake ads don't count.

[OniDax]

4 hours ago, Vyra said:

The BUGs have nothing to do with the Engine itself...more or less those are programmer issues, like when you add code that conflicts with smth you added somewhere else...
In Fact Warframe is the best looking and most stable Game i played in my 20 years of Gaming. And with a few map/location exceptions it runs fluid on my rig.

I had maybe 3 Crashes since 2013, playing 8+ hours on a session.
Of course there are games with "different Graphics", but then they are not fluid on my rig.
Also Warframe has a nice movement system, you're fast, i soo no other game like this.

Reading some of your replies and posts it seems you're just being bitter.
Do yourself a favor and take a break.

What games do you play if Warframe is the best looking game you've played in 20 years of gaming?

[SilentMobius]

22 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

Warframe is like a hoarder's house. Its got seven plus years of garbage piled up in it, because they have never gotten the chance to throw out all the stuff that turned out to be useless. And there comes a point when you have to ask yourself, is it easier to clean out the house? Or should I just move to an entirely new place?

They are literally shipping a 12GB update soon because they have changed the compression format for their lightmaps which will ultimatly save 6GB of storage. All because their devs are constantly paying attention to papers that are state of the art and have the freedom to implement new techniques.

New reflections, deferred rendering, GPU particles, occlusion detection, PBR shaders, synamic skylighting. All fundimental changes to the engine that have been made over it's life.

 

Also, remember that they deprecated the DX 9 render path and are currently doing the same for Steam Input.

[Lion]

I don't see how reducing game bloat is a bad thing, and it'd be nice if you could pull up a source that DE is looking to put warframe on mobile.

Not every game has or needs to be 100 GBs, and my SSD thanks the ones that aren't 100GB+ because I'd only be able to fit about 10 games on it at one time.

 

 

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, Lion said:

I don't see how reducing game bloat is a bad thing, and it'd be nice if you could pull up a source that DE is looking to put warframe on mobile.

Not every game has or needs to be 100 GBs, and my SSD thanks the ones that aren't 100GB+ because rid only be able to fit about 10 games on it at one time.

 

 

Game being less heavy means better load times as far as I'm concerned.

And I wish Hardware wasnt so expensive here in Brazil. The stores are even preparing themselves for Black Friday. You know? Raising the prices so they can lower them to the original price during BF disguised as a "sale".

[Vyra]

3 hours ago, OniDax said:

What games do you play if Warframe is the best looking game you've played in 20 years of gaming?

impossible to make a list, but none was as good as warframe...
some might have higher textures but the general style was awful...and/or they performed bad on my RIG.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, Corvid said:

Irrelevant. You were complaining specifically about the framerate (describing it as "Nauseating 30FPS"), I explained why that is not a problem with the game, but with the clip.

That was in response to the post that had no relation to what I said, the answer to a post that tried to prove a personal opinion and observation false. Which is something you cannot do since they are personal experiences. It is like telling someone who says "Guardians of the Galaxy is the best Marvel movie I've seen!" "No, Thor Ragnarok is!", even though there is a very key part of the first persons opinion, which is "I've seen". Which may mean he either hasnt seen Ragnarok or simply didnt enjoy it as much.

There was also a lack of explaination of what exactly in the linked video was supposed to prove it was "smoother". Something that wasnt even specified by me in the original post, so something he had no hope of disproving to begin with, yet felt some odd need doing so. I simply pointed out that you dont link a video of 30fps gameplay when you wanna discuss or point out anything about smooth.

[CatboyPrincess]

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Suffice to say that a game like Horizon Zero Dawn looks way better than War Frame. A game that is almost five years old. 

 

"If you dont want a conversation with people, dont quote or ninja quote them in the first place, easy as that. I had no intent whatsoever to direct any comments towards you, but you just couldnt stear clear from actually quoting something I said."

Corvid, I wonder how can anyone ninja quote any user here when everyone sees the board. I'm deeply puzzled, lmao. Besides the frame rate that such guy was running the game was over 60 frames per second. The user explained his setup on one of the videos If I don't remember well. 

hzd is a fair enough comparison. what i'll note here is that it was a PS4 exclusive and the devs worked very closely with Sony on both the hardware and software sides. I'm pretty sure it doesn't hit 60 fps at 4k (max 30 fps), and it is essentially a "cinematic" mode. I want to mention a difference in scale of moving objects/actors but I haven't played HZD to know if it's horde based (I'm pretty sure it's not).

I mean, I'd love if Warframe was more stable and graphically impressive. I just think that Warframe has done a good job of keeping up, ex. updating to DX11. For comparison, PSO2 is even older than Warframe but the UI, UX, and graphics are all incredibly dated (PSO2 still runs on DX9).

I would certainly agree with any proposal to update WF to DX12 ofc as that comes out and the new console gen comes out (more importantly, I would think that now is the perfect time to pressure all parties involved to bring cross-platform play and progression).

But the idea of putting WF on a completely different engine seems outright infeasible.

[Corvid]

54 minutes ago, Vyra said:

impossible to make a list, but none was as good as warframe...
some might have higher textures but the general style was awful...and/or they performed bad on my RIG.

That's the thing about aesthetics: It's more than just fidelity. A game can have the highest-resolution assets mixed with the most demanding effects, but it won't look good if the result is an incoherent mess.

Skytown, Elysia is one of the best-looking levels in gaming to this day IMO, yet it's from a game that was on the Wii exclusively. I'll take coherence and style over realism any day.

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

hzd is a fair enough comparison. what i'll note here is that it was a PS4 exclusive and the devs worked very closely with Sony on both the hardware and software sides. I'm pretty sure it doesn't hit 60 fps at 4k (max 30 fps), and it is essentially a "cinematic" mode. I want to mention a difference in scale of moving objects/actors but I haven't played HZD to know if it's horde based (I'm pretty sure it's not).

I have the game. 

You should play it. Is one of the best, if not the best hunting boss battle game ever made in the PS4 generation. 

8 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

I mean, I'd love if Warframe was more stable and graphically impressive. I just think that Warframe has done a good job of keeping up, ex. updating to DX11. For comparison, PSO2 is even older than Warframe but the UI, UX, and graphics are all incredibly dated (PSO2 still runs on DX9).

 

The graphics in War Frame are outdated and old. That is an irrefutable fact. DE must update them. 

 

8 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

I would certainly agree with any proposal to update WF to DX12 ofc as that comes out and the new console gen comes out (more importantly, I would think that now is the perfect time to pressure all parties involved to bring cross-platform play and progression).

 

It's fair to say that DE will upscale War Frame on the PS5, something that is almost inevitable. 

 

8 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

But the idea of putting WF on a completely different engine seems outright infeasible.

 

I never suggested an engine switch. DE will never do that. The game will die with the evolution engine. Maybe War Frame 2 will start fresh if DE decides to take that road. 

[Aadi880]

15 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

I would certainly agree with any proposal to update WF to DX12 ofc as that comes out and the new console gen comes out

DE is currently working on getting DirectX12 in, judging by steve's twitter posts. Should happen anytime soon now I think.

[Lion]

1 hour ago, Vyra said:

impossible to make a list, but none was as good as warframe...
some might have higher textures but the general style was awful...and/or they performed bad on my RIG.

Graphically speaking I mean, just one game will do. I'm just curious cause I've never encountered any mobile game that looked anywhere near as good

[fungame_dot_exe]

DE doesn't want to exclude any console or old PC users from the game, so they probably won't introduce scene reflection capture based PBR rendering (for metals to not look rather dull, but to actually reflect details on their surfaces). Consider that Warframe is running on the Nintendo Switch as well.

The next gen consoles however have promising graphics features.

Some console hardware specs.

Microsoft even claims 120FPS is possible, on console.

I'd rather see gameplay improvements, like;-

 - A game mode where you protect a VIP from harm and take them through the whole map.
 - A warframe that actually behaves like a ninja with high evasion and maneovering skills as passive.
 - Ninja like enemies which are powerful yet elusive, and can go invisible or jump around clinging to walls, switching between attacking and hiding.
 - More weapons with unique abilities, for fun build synergy. There was a weapon with innate lifesteal, and the Skiajati makes you go invisible on finishers.
 - More synergy for builds somehow. Ash with Mark for Death initially seemed to outclass everything but people said it's garbage, there should be more fun builds possible that let you sacrifice one aspect for another, like becoming a glass cannon.
 - A build-your-own-warframe system, so you can sacrifice some aspects for others. Would be cool to see 100% element resist, for example. Ember/Frost should really have those.
 - More fun and different puzzles for Spy missions. Expand the game content into another galaxy or something.
 - They really didn't utilize the portal mechanic much, or the Void, both of which could have been reused.
 - Different game modes than Spy, Exterminate, Survival etc.
 - More mods and more Corrupted mods. Example: +50% damage to Self, +28% Melee Damage
 - Some mods that let "caster frames" shine
 - Mods that make squishy frames actually viable to play. Here is a handy Dmg Reduction table from the wiki.

I really enjoyed doing the missions and the story content, coming to PC from PS4. I actually paid attention to the story this time. The first mission and the story quests are really well written, I'd really gotten bored of the game on PS4 and left it for a year, but I realize it's the content, with the compelling well written story, that I liked. That and making really strange theorycrafting builds for Helminth.

[Krankbert]

vor 1 Minute schrieb fungame_dot_exe:

DE doesn't want to exclude any console or old PC users from the game, so they probably won't introduce scene reflection capture based PBR rendering (for metals to not look rather dull, but to actually reflect details on their surfaces). Consider that Warframe is running on the Nintendo Switch as well.

The next gen consoles however have promising graphics features.

Some console hardware specs.

Microsoft even claims 120FPS is possible, on console.

Of course it's possible to do 120FPS on console. Microsoft supports it already on their current-gen hardware. If you do Nethack-level graphics, you can have 120FPS on a toaster. The issue is that if you target 120fps, you can't have as nice graphics as you could get at 60fps, and in the past, nicer graphics has generally won out.

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, Aadi880 said:

DE is currently working on getting DirectX12 in, judging by steve's twitter posts. Should happen anytime soon now I think.

 

I saw the cadre of games listed for the PS5 reveal. 

 

Better DE update their graphic engine soon up to DX12. 

 

PS5 is no joke. Sony is going full blitz. 

[OniDax]

3 hours ago, Corvid said:

That's the thing about aesthetics: It's more than just fidelity. A game can have the highest-resolution assets mixed with the most demanding effects, but it won't look good if the result is an incoherent mess.

Skytown, Elysia is one of the best-looking levels in gaming to this day IMO, yet it's from a game that was on the Wii exclusively. I'll take coherence and style over realism any day.

I still don't know which games you all are talking about that have high fidelity yet are an incoherent mess. Just look at the biggest games from the past decade and tell me they're high fidelity yet an incoherent mess. Even failed games like Battlefront 2 and Ghost Recon Breakpoint look good and have style. I can understand if you subjectively don't like a game because you don't prefer its art style, but in no way does that mean the game doesn't look good. If you think Warframe is the best looking game in the last 20 years, then you simply haven't played a lot of good looking games.

 

And a Wii exclusive having one of the best-looking levels in gaming to this day? By what criteria is it "one of the best-looking levels?" Because I very much doubt that something on the Wii has the best textures, lighting, AO, ambient occlusion, anisotropic filtering, mesh detail, environment detail, vegetation detail, PBR shaders, animation, and use of motion blur and depth of field. I don't care if you prefer a certain aesthetic over another. There's no way that a Wii game is the best-looking anything. I really hope this was a joke, because this

Spoiler

 

is NOT one of the best-looking levels in gaming to this day. A game with all those elements and the same aesthetics and layout would look better than this Wii game you love. This is not about aesthetics. It's about graphical quality. If Warframe got a new engine and a graphics upgrade, its aesthetic wouldn't change. That has never been up for debate and is just a distraction from the OP's argument. And you and Vyra know that. I don't even care if Warframe gets some major upgrade in graphics due to a new engine, but let's not pretend that Warframe is the best-looking game from a graphical standpoint, which is basically what this engine argument is all about.

[Corvid]

15 hours ago, OniDax said:

It's about graphical quality.

See, that's where we disagree. For me it's all about art direction. Quality is secondary to that.

[Wearbe]

On 2020-09-15 at 7:12 AM, EmberStar said:

 Think of it like trying to shove a diesel engine into a VW Beetle.  It's NOT going to be easy, it might not even be efficient, but it's probably *possible* if you're willing to throw time and resources at it.

https://www.eagletribune.com/news/diesel-vw-beetle-is-fun-for-many-miles/article_6e4c625c-9b5c-5747-a2ca-eb204f781eb0.html

I didn't read the whole thread. How many other people posted something like this? ;p

[Corvid]

33 minutes ago, Wearbe said:

https://www.eagletribune.com/news/diesel-vw-beetle-is-fun-for-many-miles/article_6e4c625c-9b5c-5747-a2ca-eb204f781eb0.html

I didn't read the whole thread. How many other people posted something like this? ;p

Care to explain your point? For some reason that website is inaccessible to EU users.

[Wearbe]

21 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Care to explain your point? For some reason that website is inaccessible to EU users.

It is a link to Diesel VW Bugs. I understand what the guy was saying, but I found it humorous.

[Felsagger]

PS5 games showed the graphics and the games. DE has a lot of pressure in their shoulders right now. The XBSX is dead in the sea and the qualitative jump made by the industry of video game card happened. 

I'll put it simple, if this game doesn't keep up with the rest of the next gen games, This GAAS game is going to fall behind ending up like a generic potato IOS APP. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

19 hours ago, fungame_dot_exe said:

DE doesn't want to exclude any console or old PC users from the game, so they probably won't introduce scene reflection capture based PBR rendering (for metals to not look rather dull, but to actually reflect details on their surfaces). Consider that Warframe is running on the Nintendo Switch as well.

The next gen consoles however have promising graphics features.

Some console hardware specs.

Microsoft even claims 120FPS is possible, on console.

I'd rather see gameplay improvements, like;-

 - A game mode where you protect a VIP from harm and take them through the whole map.
 - A warframe that actually behaves like a ninja with high evasion and maneovering skills as passive.
 - Ninja like enemies which are powerful yet elusive, and can go invisible or jump around clinging to walls, switching between attacking and hiding.
 - More weapons with unique abilities, for fun build synergy. There was a weapon with innate lifesteal, and the Skiajati makes you go invisible on finishers.
 - More synergy for builds somehow. Ash with Mark for Death initially seemed to outclass everything but people said it's garbage, there should be more fun builds possible that let you sacrifice one aspect for another, like becoming a glass cannon.
 - A build-your-own-warframe system, so you can sacrifice some aspects for others. Would be cool to see 100% element resist, for example. Ember/Frost should really have those.
 - More fun and different puzzles for Spy missions. Expand the game content into another galaxy or something.
 - They really didn't utilize the portal mechanic much, or the Void, both of which could have been reused.
 - Different game modes than Spy, Exterminate, Survival etc.
 - More mods and more Corrupted mods. Example: +50% damage to Self, +28% Melee Damage
 - Some mods that let "caster frames" shine
 - Mods that make squishy frames actually viable to play. Here is a handy Dmg Reduction table from the wiki.

I really enjoyed doing the missions and the story content, coming to PC from PS4. I actually paid attention to the story this time. The first mission and the story quests are really well written, I'd really gotten bored of the game on PS4 and left it for a year, but I realize it's the content, with the compelling well written story, that I liked. That and making really strange theorycrafting builds for Helminth.

That Ash with marked for death, while pretty cool, it does still suck in pubs for obvious reasond. Best used for solo, but there are better frames if you want to use another.

[Aldain]

21 hours ago, Lion said:

Not every game has or needs to be 100 GBs

Yeah...Hard Drive space requirements these days can be quite a...WARZONE.

On-topic: A new engine wouldn't be a silver bullet for any issues that Warframe has, an engine doesn't even necessarily imply better creative options, seriously go look up what people do with the Doom engine, $*#^ is crazy.