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I don't think DE will keep their word about the Wraith frames release.

TheGodofWiFi

By TheGodofWiFi,
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TheGodofWiFi

TheGodofWiFi

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3 hours ago, (PSN)SolarPhantom82 said:

Their not been impatient. Their calling out DE for saying their going to do something,  then not doing it. .  It's bulds miss trust with their playerbase. ..   and for DE they do it alot. ...  

Thank you for reading things properly and not just being hot-heated for no reason.

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TheGodofWiFi

TheGodofWiFi

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2 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Right, because it shouldn't take more than four months to figure out how to deal with a literally unprecedented global pandemic. For the life of me I'll never understand why some people seem so affronted by delays.

Again, someone has missed the point.

It's DE once again being DE; saying something and not delivering. They were doing this way before the pandemic started. If they were unsure about getting something out then they simply should have said so and in these times especially, no one would blame them.

It's not about delays, its the principle of keeping your mouth shut if you're not sure about whether or not you can do something. DE has a very bad habit of making promises they cannot keep and its disappointing every time it happens. That's all this is. 

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motorfirebox

motorfirebox

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1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Again, someone has missed the point.

It's DE once again being DE; saying something and not delivering. They were doing this way before the pandemic started. If they were unsure about getting something out then they simply should have said so and in these times especially, no one would blame them.

It's not about delays, its the principle of keeping your mouth shut if you're not sure about whether or not you can do something. DE has a very bad habit of making promises they cannot keep and its disappointing every time it happens. That's all this is. 

DE keeps us in the loop as to their development process, something almost no other major developer does. Yes, sometimes that results in stuff dropping later than initially promised. There are two alternatives. One, set the release date with months and months of extra room—meaning that in many cases, we have to wait for months and months longer to get the new content. Two, set a more reasonable release date and release whether it's ready or not—meaning we get content that's unplayably buggy until they patch everything.

I don't like either of those alternatives. I'd rather DE continue their current practice of keeping us as informed as reasonably possible and releasing content when it's ready. Yeah, that means dealing with frequent [DE]lays. So what? The content is going to get to us when it gets to us, regardless of whether or not you know about any missed release dates. If those missed release dates bother you too badly, you can solve that by not watching devstreams. That way, as far as you're concerned, there won't be any delays to disappoint you.

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Tiltskillet

Tiltskillet

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4 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

DE keeps us in the loop as to their development process, something almost no other major developer does. Yes, sometimes that results in stuff dropping later than initially promised.

I think they could do a better job managing expectations.  A couple of examples that are pertinent to this thread would be emphasizing during Tennocon that Wraithe was planned to release in 2020 if everything went well; and then checking in periodically with updates on that progress.  e.g., mentioning during the devstreams what the timetable is looking like as things develop.

Going further afield for a more extreme example, I think they would have averted a lot of uproar if they'd said during Tennocon that subsumed abilities would be weaker than on their native frame.  Then they could have said later on that the majority of subsumed abilities would be unchanged, and only a few outliers nerfed.  Expectations: better managed.

These are minor things, but I do think they're reassuring to a lot of players.  The sad thing is, I've seen another game studio where this was handled extremely well, and they'd still get a few people accusing them of making and breaking promises when promises were never made.  Some of that is inevitable, I think, but minimizing it is a very positive thing to work at, IMO.

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WindigoTG

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22 hours ago, krc473 said:

December seems a bit late to release a new frame, holidays and all that. So I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see either this year. Remember, DE has to have time to bug fix the frame following release. It seems like a poor choice to release it just before Christmas, unless they want to work over it.

Yes, it would make sense to not release something before Christmas and storm off on a few weaks long vacation, leavng the game in a state of buggy mess. It would make too much sense.

And that's why DE has been doing exactly that for the last few years.

 

If we're talking frames specifically, we can use Nidus as a reference. He was dropped at 22nd of December. So Lavos is right on schedule to become this year's holiday mess.

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Leqesai

Leqesai

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23 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Well we're halfway through November and I see no release date in sight. If DE are going to release Lavos it will either be at the very end of November or in December.

Tbh i thought lavos would be coming with arcana but it looks more like he is coming with the queens.

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(PSN)camwyn-xenos

(PSN)camwyn-xenos

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Lets real out a bit and look at DE as a company selling its wares. DE aim at present to sell 4 new primes each year and this is there model for income. So far because of development issues this year they have only done 2 base frames. De has a buffer on primes of a 2 years. So all they do is releases 5 next year timing of releases of the normal frames doesn't really matter.

So for players this means what, DE says x is coming, player say great when, if DE says anything about timing players the say its rushed if its bad, Delayed if its 1 day over eta., if De says nothing players say they do not communicate, and the list of divided comments goes on.

In a ideal world everything would be on time and top quality having been tested. 

And on that note how many complaining about Delayedrelease have listened to to feedback on lastest pts. and can realize devs need to forget about new frames and fix the next update properly, we all want good quality work NOT rushed buggy messes because they said it would and thought they could.

Lets moan about proper bugs not about things that become horribly cluster f because someone needs speedy rushed crap. 

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SneakyErvin

SneakyErvin

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18 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

If you want to argue about what counts as giving their word and what doesn't then Geoff openly said he is committed to bringing the frames to the game in 2020. Committed is synonymous with the word pledge, which is another word for promise. So actually, yes DE did give us their word.

That isnt the same as giving your word it will happen, just that he is commited to try and make it possible. It isnt a pledge to us, he is "pledged" to the task, that is all. You can be committed to getting a new job by the end of the year and say the very same to your wife, that doesnt mean it is a promise or a word of bondage that it will happen, just that you try your very hardest for it to happen and are fully dedicated to see it happening. It may still fail in the end.

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Zimzala

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Mountains out of mole hills by pedantic gamers that are never satisfied with life...these forums are always so fun to read!

These things only build 'mistrust' for those same, pedantic, impossible to ever satisfy players that no game company can ever really please, because the problem is not the game, it's the outlook and brain chemistry of the humans involved.

You talk breathlessly as if a game developer not making everything they want to make, in a time frame that you find 'proper', and think they should be hemmed into for no other reason that you like to call them out on it, from my POV.

Just silly.

You act as if these guys are running a country or some life-giving utility.

It's just some more stuff ofr a video game.

If you don't think DE produces products and services in a timely fashion just because they don't make all the deadlines they shoot at, then don't invest in the company stock.

I'll keep playing the fun game they made, laughing at the pedantic rules-lawyers.

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motorfirebox

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15 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I think they could do a better job managing expectations.  A couple of examples that are pertinent to this thread would be emphasizing during Tennocon that Wraithe was planned to release in 2020 if everything went well; and then checking in periodically with updates on that progress.  e.g., mentioning during the devstreams what the timetable is looking like as things develop.

Going further afield for a more extreme example, I think they would have averted a lot of uproar if they'd said during Tennocon that subsumed abilities would be weaker than on their native frame.  Then they could have said later on that the majority of subsumed abilities would be unchanged, and only a few outliers nerfed.  Expectations: better managed.

These are minor things, but I do think they're reassuring to a lot of players.  The sad thing is, I've seen another game studio where this was handled extremely well, and they'd still get a few people accusing them of making and breaking promises when promises were never made.  Some of that is inevitable, I think, but minimizing it is a very positive thing to work at, IMO.

Again, I'd really rather they not. I want to know what they're thinking when they think it. My expectations are my expectations, and I don't see why it's DE's job to manage them for me. Managed expectations are what I get from other developers—I don't want the nice, safe, inoffensive, commercialized dev news, I want the dev news. After six years of devstreams and Tennocons and workshops and tweets and reddit posts, I'm well aware that what DE is planning at any given moment may not come to fruition exactly the way—much less exactly when—they envision at that moment.

If anything, missed "promises" and post-launch changes are how you know they're being honest with us. If they wanted to mislead us, they'd stick to the nice, safe, inoffensive, commercialized news that other developers spoon out. They'd keep us in the dark until they were sure the information they were putting out was about a finished product. The fact that DE trusts its playerbase enough that DE is willing to be publicly wrong, to publicly go back and change mechanics after the fact, is a good thing.

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Teridax68

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I'm pretty sure DE isn't going to honor the promise of delivering those frames this year, but to be honest I'm fairly okay with that. I'd much rather they delayed the release of those frames and gave them sufficient work and polish for them to feel good, than for them to rush through the development process and release half-baked frames that would immediately need a rework, as has happened several times before already. Of course, if the frame releases late and still has major problems, as has happened on occasion, there wouldn't be an excuse then, but I'd rather go for quality over urgency.

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SneakyErvin

SneakyErvin

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22 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

:facepalm:

And what exactly is the task he is pledging to do Ervin?

To try and get the 4th frame ready this year.

Which other year have we even had 4 frames released? That is a big thing to consider aswell, so it would be a massive thing if they actually pull it off given the restrictions this year naturally comes with. Even more so if he'll come with a new mode or a quest, not to mention they need to finish his weapons aswell and so on.

 

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TheGodofWiFi

TheGodofWiFi

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10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

To try and get the 4th frame ready this year.

And who exactly are they doing that for? Us. They never said they would try to get them out this year, they said they will be out this year. That's the point of contention here Ervin; DE's tendency to keep over-promising things and not delivering. Go watch the video. Nowhere do any of them say "We will try to get them to the community this year".

Therefore, they gave us their word the frames would be out this year.

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SneakyErvin

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Just now, TheGodofWiFi said:

And who exactly are they doing that for? Us. Therefore, they gave us their word the frames would be out this year.

They never said they would try to get them out this year, they said they will be out this year. That's the point of contention here Ervin; DE's tendency to keep over-promising things and not delivering. Go watch the video. Nowhere do any of them say "We will try to get them to the community this year".

No, they never said they would. They did say, with the specific word used, that they will try their hardest to get it out this year. Committed isnt a promise, it is a state of mind regarding something. It may still fall short, or in this case pan out to the normal amount released in a year, which you seem to ignore.

So I ask again, which year was the latest one where they delivered more than 3 new frames?

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