Deimos: Arcana - Glaive Changes Megathread

[SnakeBadger]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

after the glaive reached it's distance away from frame apex

this just sounds more insane than anything i have ever written ever, is there any screenshots or good ideas for this to workout? will it have golems? or nitrate based polaroid fieldworkers shredding the wheats?

[Dazzul]

I much preferred detonate and throw being on the same key.

[SnakeBadger]

2 hours ago, Winthos said:

detonate the glaive manually

• can we trigger multiple throws or earn them, they can have penalties and other special effects to bounce and speed, the player has to be trained to catch and adjust, i can picture the recast at least to change, i dont like melee currently because some features are repetitive so its up to the environment tilesets to cushion SFX of slam and explosions to be softened by acustic magic, dampening and air attacks/wall latch to have its own special effects on those weapons, so theres a need for more special mods and to make another glaive for players who make it to cetus w/o building one from a blueprint
• the closest is to allow the player to get 3 zaw weapons to customize while they enjoy cetus for the first time
• fortuna can be all about hammers and resistance to electric damage, archwing
• heavy weapons and k-drive , glaive enhanced magnetics for ventkids, this means they have glaive forms and mods, tricks
• K-Glaive / K-drive weapon / Archwing
• MK-1 Glaive ideas\\\\found weapons in the map areas are tarnished and hence BP versions can be taken home, the players primary melee and warframe abilities give power to weapons that are ready to use in maps, heavy, and can be earned by taking them to extractiong, using the gearwheel in the future or scanning them to create the BP to trade and combine "ZAW" based if the components are damaged in battle to get players zawing, and kitguns from enemy kills, the components and mods should suffice unlock NPC wares and cosmetic sugatras, and melee mods that can be temporary or attached before entering the plains, endo will enhance mods and stances attacks, not just energy.
• zaw glaives, tileset presets, wind friction damage, vortex, missing throws, wasting energy, passives effects on teamates nearby , if players upgrade them or mod to feature powercells and scanning, cheats for deflecting bullets can drain and be used as a turtleshell but reduces energy and effectiveness, ei. player cant throw or glaive looses strengh and has to be repaired, temporary effects, got wet, or freezes because its vulnerable or full of energy particle matter.
• grineer riffles and weapons on trash mob trigger other explosions and effects
• primary weapons crouching and zoom features while wielding glaives
• potato mode when
• Glaive Exalted for Nezsa to customize
• can there be a way to shoot magic from the glaives like a sonic wave like banshee? or other uses? i dont like the idea of just throwing my melee down a cliff and loosing it if i get hit by a explosion or something after my armor/shields are stripped off, the stuff makes me wanna break pots in zelda to see if there is any green rubyshards or grukdul
• i seen other games using the spheres to trap enemies, maybe we can use the glaive to capture some animals and enemies, but atleast allow it to be used for hacking red lockers and scanning enemies, those that have already been scanned will trigger some special effects when they die occasionally give off glimmer and change the effects of items and pickups,
• a good penalty for players throwing and causing explosions is scattering the loot but most players wont like this, so the explosions have to have some penalties if they are used so often that reduce throw speed or reactions of bounce logic, elemental can proc hint at getting too hot and start draining energy and eventually when you cant throw it it should do something else, so this leaves you thinking about defensive modes , robotics , and cooling 
• glaive for gathering fishing, capturing, scanning, and iddle magic

[SnakeBadger]

On 2020-11-19 at 7:37 PM, jesusdh said:

Remove Lifting from Glaive combos

i woulnt remove it but at least make some adjustments, i cant think of anything rightnow, some people know how to use those, the best quickfix is to give electric and other charges with faster recoil and bounce like ridding a bull?

[SnakeBadger]

On 2020-11-18 at 1:23 PM, [DE]Bear said:

GLAIVE STAT REBALANCING:

what alot of these are missing its gathering and vacuum powerups, and roto/robotic features for pets to cover their owners throws with a magic shield or barrage after, teleportation would make glaives more interesting aspect but its unrealistic for every situation but would make them less stagnant, if the players explosions relocated them or shifted them, the enemies being lifted could recover faster, or release some shielding, i always think tha tsome enemies need to last longer so they should take hits on their energy packages nearby would prolong their hp and make the enemies more about stealing resources and using extractors as usual the planet gets drained of its shiny things, including glaives, but yeah, i own a kestrel and the xoris, and the orvious disk, i like how heavy it feels like holding a giant shield and hitting enemies with it medieval clown cop, or something like that, um one good game was basara and samurai warriors, they are all about heavy weapons, can u include some rolling and crouching aspect passives> can the be unlocked or earned automatically instead of just mods through movment or tileset or purchased as a rental add-on in the future, i have no complains, maybe there should be a pixie or circular archwing, or motorcycle which looks like tron, or another k-drive based on glaives which nesa players would get first automatically you can make the abilities in open world that much better- but it would cost fuel and penalties, gauss competition, and the eating guy should have vomit or other earthquake based attacks, i think the rollypolly bowling is good but its expensive, so grendel is difficult to enjoy because its orriented towards teammates, and he has no DPS attacks or functions if he has no food or energy, so basically he should have some freebies, free rolling or free eating w/o enrgy so he can travel more interestingly like sonic the hedgehog, building a overshield and katamari if he keep rolling over other stuff and getting covered in glass depending on its team mates, fishing spears and glaives ned to be used in combat and fishing more, and also minning, what does a fishing spear do while minning vice versa the laser should be used a heavy attack to open a locked door that is locked or console, not all of them but some machines just need more than hacking, and parazon mods to make glaives more interesting, good!

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Dazzul said:

I much preferred detonate and throw being on the same key.

Maybe a compromise can be found by letting the heavy attack button also throw the glaive (in addition to the attack button doing the same)?

I totally agree that exploding and rethrowing with a single button press was very nice for heavy attack builds, but it does still work with 2 different ones - whereas making the attack button explode glaives breaks throw builds.

[Winthos]

13 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Maybe a compromise can be found by letting the heavy attack button also throw the glaive (in addition to the attack button doing the same)?

I totally agree that exploding and rethrowing with a single button press was very nice for heavy attack builds, but it does still work with 2 different ones - whereas making the attack button explode glaives breaks throw builds.

I could see something like this being much better. If the Heavy Attack input could throw AND detonate the glaive no matter what mode you were in, that should allow for parity across all glaive modes.

You could be using a primary weapon, hit heavy attack and that would switch to your glaive as if you were doing quick melee, but instead you would throw it. If you were in Dual Wield mode, this can also work and also free up the secondary fire input for actually using the secondary fire of your weapon if it happens to have one. In full melee mode, this would also be consistent.

This would also get rid of the awkward "hold to throw" timings that can be messed up with attack speed. The old issue of hold inputs being hard to get out consistently due to having high attack speed is back with the current control scheme.

[SuZaKu_77]

On 2020-11-23 at 2:16 AM, Asrer said:

Hi does Condition Overload work on Glaive heavy attack explosion? I have tried to test it, and it seemed like condition overload DOESNT work, I am not a experienced player, so maybe I may have made a mistake. Can anyone confirm this?

Me too, i've tested with 5 elements nukor, but condition overload seems not affecting the damage on thrown glaives

[Desilus]

Glaives cannot be detonated anymore while using Ivara's Navigator ability. If you press the default E key while using navigator it will auto recall and terminate di ability, if you press the heavy attack key or the alt fire key (while in pistol/glaive) nothing happens and the glaive will continue it's trajectory

[Heidelgard]

I have only one single concern: tapping the heavy attack button does nothing. It was a very handy and comfortable way to throw the glaive, rather than holding E.

[Raskalnickoff]

I have been able to get the Orvius to do its special fairly regularly in the Simulacrum.

Tap E for a quick melee attack that counts combos, occasionally releasing a throw

Hold E for ~1 second and it is a 'Quick throw' which is the only way to activate the special ability. (~500ms in melee only)

Hold E for 1-2sec (it will auto release) for a regular throw, like all the other glaives (~1sec in melee only)

Once in flight (or as a puppet) tap E to return with no explosion (What is the point?)

Once in flight (or as a puppet) Hold E to return with explosion

Attack speed mods appear to make no difference to these timings. Whirlwind does make the glaive fly faster. I also tested volatile quick return for the first time and the explosion is much larger, but it also becomes hard to see if you got the 'quick throw' or the normal throw. It was also much harder to perform a melee only 'quick throw' as it seems that the times above are halved.

 

It would be my preference that every thrown attack of the Orvius that goes remotely near an enemy activated the special attack, then the glaive would only bounce if you hit the floor or wall first.

[cy3160]

So I have been tinkering with my glaive prime for a while now, hoping it would be viable in the steel path.
I realized I got a lot more success building for 60/60 corrosive than carnis mandible using volatile rebound.

It has to do with the awkward explosive element of the glaive prime, with garanteed IMPACT procs. 
So I could only get slash off the ones i hit directly and not the ones caught in the explosion, Its homing abilities are good so it would hit a few,

BUT with corrosive, you delete groups of non elite grineer if they are close, or turn them into poor corroded sods with 2 or more stacks of corrosive even if they are far apart. Really evil. 

Whirlwind can improve DPS by making the glaive go through all the bounces faster and return faster.

The thing i really don't like is power throw. The bonus damage is nice, but I would likely be in a bad spot if i try to make use of it. The "continuous throw" mechanic makes it hard to headshot or time the throws as well, It would be godly if it has a small time window after caught (maybe let my warframe spin in place holding the glaive doing a melee in an arc to keep the momentum, it would be glorious). but most time, it is useless. It works almost like volatile quick return on its own without volatile rebound. It makes the glaive return super fast with the least bounces.

I feel like the three throwing mods:

Volatile rebound
Volatile Quick return
Power throw

Are best used on their own right now. They don't work well. Keeping the rebound might mess your timing to chain throws. Power throw and V quick return acts similar on their own.
you lose a lot of damage if you use 2 etc etc.
That said, can we get a exilus mod slot for throwing weapons just for the Throwing mods please? 

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, cy3160 said:

[...]

Glaive Prime is a heavy attack weapon. Forced bleeds decimate anything hit, no elements required.

• Volatile Rebound is for throwing combo builds.
• Volatile Quick Return for heavy attack builds.
• Power Throw works on either, but requires you to chain throws (obviously).

An Exilus slot would be much appreciated. I'm not going to drop a real mod for +bounces or faster flight. Also applies to other weapons and blocking/defense mods.

[Shuvok]

cant you rebalance without ruining the playability? seriously, it suck that mmb no longer throw my damn weapon...

[ImWithDerp]

I really miss being able to start a throw with the heavy attack button. Is it possible to bring this back or at least let us map throws to a different key?

[Tyreaus]

Hmm - is it just me who can't detonate Glaives when dual-wielding? Pressing regular melee does a natural recall and the heavy attack key seems to do nothing. Am I missing something?

[Kainosh]

Glaive Bounces are still lacking.  

Phahd works nicely, bouncing between 2 enemies till it runs outta juice.....but Cerata is like a brick.   On my 8 bounce build, I never saw it bounce more than 2 times, even when I throw it into a nicely formed cluster of enemies.

 

Suggestion :

Direct hit with a throw should increase glaive's "tracking" until it returns.  

•   If there are 2+ enemies, it should bounce between them until bounces run out.  
•   If there is ONE enemy, it should bounce between said Enemy and nearby surfaces till it runs out of bounces.  

 

Basically, if you have 8 bounces, it must bounce 8 times per throw, prioritizing enemies.   Because now its kinda pointless to build for Bounce...its very unreliable, while Detonation covers great area and is a guaranteed hit.

[Kainosh]

On 2020-11-26 at 4:28 PM, Traumtulpe said:

Maybe a compromise can be found by letting the heavy attack button also throw the glaive (in addition to the attack button doing the same)?

Nah. Only a toggle will do.  Im talking about "Glaive only" mode here. 

That "throwing queue" gets in the way.  You throw to hit something at range, it returns, you try to melee and it starts another trow coz queue triggered. Don't want to wait for glaive to "settle down" after every throw. I want to melee immediately after it gets back.

Basically, I don't need any accidental ranged attacks on my "close combat button".  We have a nice, separate button for this stuff.  Lemme use it.

[Traumtulpe]

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

Basically, I don't need any accidental ranged attacks on my "close combat button".  We have a nice, separate button for this stuff.  Lemme use it.

It's just not done right. They had the very same problem with all melee for a time (except some they forgot to change) when they implemented "hold attack for heavy attack" on all weapons. People wanted this feature. But the feedback was so bad they flat out removed it again.

The issue is, and has previously been, that there is something wrong with the "hold" check. In particular with high attack speeds. Tests I had done previously suggested that, among other things, two taps with a pause in between can cue up a heavy attack as if you had held the button.

The weirdest thing about this is that you could always throw via holding the button in dual wield mode. I don't recall this to ever cause issues (though admittedly I didn't make much use of it, as glaives were subpar and/or bugged for most of this games lifetime).

So you'd think coding universal "hold to heavy attack" should be very easy to implement - just copy paste the dual wield code. But no, somehow they managed to mess it up for the second time.

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2020-11-19 at 2:23 AM, [DE]Bear said:

 

• “Hold throw” mechanics now apply in Equipped Melee mode!
• In “Glaive + Gun” mode, players must use the melee key to detonate the Glaive while in flight.
  • With only the Glaive in hand, the alt fire button is no longer reserved for your secondary weapon, which allows for added flexibility - press alt fire for a Heavy Attack detonation, or tap melee for a simple recall
•  

I have read this over at least 10 times, and I have no earthly clue what you’re saying.

Glaives now require different buttons while in the different modes?

Why... wouldn’t you just... keep them the same?

[Kainosh]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

The issue is, and has previously been, that there is something wrong with the "hold" check. In particular with high attack speeds. Tests I had done previously suggested that, among other things, two taps with a pause in between can cue up a heavy attack as if you had held the button.

You don't understand that "held check" is the issue on its own, as it adds undesired delays.  You cant adjust it to work for everyone. Lag, different keyboards, different tap length and all that stuff that happens....it all affects it.   I don't want to strain my hand trying to time my taps perfectly to avoid that held check trigger.

If "check" is too slow, fast players will ask to make it faster....If its too fast, accidental activation will happen for those with slower fingers. 

 

Nah.  Even if "held" is properly polished and refined,  I will still prefer throws on a separate button with "held" disabled. Coz KB is not that ergonomic for "held" that is this frequent.

[Bathynomus]

Shouldn't Volatile Rebound add bounces like regular Rebound does? Kinda feels like it should not be named rebound if it has nothing in common with it.

[Svarlos]

Alright, a few things:

Glaives themselves break blood rush and gladiator based combo bonuses randomly on kill, or maybe just on hit, but definitely on kill once in awhile. (As shown here): The x3 is my blood rush combo, which should be 5 at 6x combos, obviously. You can break this also by throwing your glaive before entering a portal in that mode, but that particular one wasn't broken like that, just on killing.

 

The second thing, I agree with the button setups. And another point that annoys the crap out of me, why does the BOUND heavy attack melee not work with a rifle out? Yes, I want it to heavy melee attack. It's the heavy melee attack button, not my tertiary attack for current weapon button.

 

Third, I agree with the rest of the players for separated buttons. It avoids throwing accidentally during melee use, and gives you some customizability towards your controls. I also can't figure out how to explode my glaive while dual wielding though, and everytime i break my blood rush, i have to swap to straight glaive, and explode it to temporarily fix it until it breaks again. Which it can do multiple times on the way to 12x combos, until you're just left with 0 actual combo bonuses from anything. I'm sure it's not just blood rush that's screwed by that, but probably the inherent damage bonuses as well, since it drops me to doing far far less damage over all, even without the crits.

 

Fourth, no crits on stealth... Someone else mentioned that in there somewhere, though, and...

 

Fifth, hitting things behind me when i throw and knocking my ass all over the place is super irritating, maybe we can move the projectile slightly forward, so it doesn't hit things behind us? ;p Thanks!

 

Beyond that, I like the changes, it's a good direction. Just needs some streamlining and bug fixing, keep up the good work.

[BasedTM]

Please make the aura empowered blades work with glaive heavy attacks, thanks!

[Dunkelheit]

Am 2.12.2020 um 03:36 schrieb Tyreaus:

Hmm - is it just me who can't detonate Glaives when dual-wielding? Pressing regular melee does a natural recall and the heavy attack key seems to do nothing. Am I missing something?

I had the same problem, then I re-read the text about the glaives: If you use gun + thrown mode (read: If you have both equipped), you need to use your middle mouse button for the explosions.