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Companions need a rework.


(XBOX)CI shadow2397

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5 minutes ago, (XBOX)CI shadow2397 said:

The problem with most companions now is that unless they have some sort of useful utility abilities, or are a vulpaphyla. Sentinels especially are cool in concept but are generally weak and squishy. So I want to hear how people think this should be fixed.

Dijin can revived but none the other one can't gg RIP sentinels.

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Companions have needed updated stats/AI for years. Don't be disappointed if we never see this worked on. DE priorities appear to be:

1. Random new content

2. Graphix Engine!!!!

3. Gotta make sure dem rivens is adjusted every 3 months fo'dat green!

4. DEVSTREAM SO PEOPLE THINK WE LISTEN!!

Always Sunny Fx GIF

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I'm of the opinion that Sentinels should be invulnerable "support pods" with little to nothing in the way of offensive capabilities, and that players should be able to take both a Sentinel and a roaming companion into missions if they so choose.

So if you just want utility you can have a Sentinel without needing to worry about it getting destroyed by the first squad of Juno Elites/Terra Trencher they come across.

12 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

-Snip-

You seem to have forgotten that they're currently working on another Warframe Revised update, which is specifically focused on fixing issues like these.

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17 minutes ago, Corvid said:

 

You seem to have forgotten that they're currently working on another Warframe Revised update, which is specifically focused on fixing issues like these.

Warframe revised has nothing to do with companions though. Warframe revised is simply addressing issues that have gone neglected for years...

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4 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Companions have needed updated stats/AI for years. Don't be disappointed if we never see this worked on. DE priorities appear to be:

1. Random new content

2. Graphix Engine!!!!

3. Gotta make sure dem rivens is adjusted every 3 months fo'dat green!

4. DEVSTREAM SO PEOPLE THINK WE LISTEN!!

Always Sunny Fx GIF

While there many problems with the game that should have been addressed like... years ago, you're kinda taking this to a comical level.

I don't get the random new content complaint as DE usually tells us what they are about to implement and what they want to do with that content. Deimos might be the only exception but that's because in the middle of the pandemic they had to come up with something that's enough content and something they can make from home. Otherwise players would be shouting "Content Drought" and since the holidays are coming they probably will do that until the new content comes out. And then we will have people say things like "Stop with new content". Even tho new content keeps the game alive.

You're 3rd point is the usual greedy DE accusation that has been debunked millions of times. Rivens are free and whether you spend money to get platinum for it or not is completely your decision.

And 4th There are times when they don't listen sure. But don't act like they never did anything based on our feedback. If they would have ignored us the game would have died a long time ago. And probably you will say something like "they only listen if there's an outrage about something". But that's not true. There were some changes based on those kind of complaints of course, but most of the changes didn't happen due to that. The warframe revised and melee weapon reworks and changes to those reworks were just based on simple feedback. There wasn't a straight up outrage. Well of course in GD someone is always angry about something but that hardly counts.

Tho I kinda have a feeling after this one post that you are one of those either bash the devs 24/7 kinda guy. And everyone who disagrees is a white WhiteKnight.

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1 minute ago, JackHargreav said:

While there many problems with the game that should have been addressed like... years ago, you're kinda taking this to a comical level.

I don't get the random new content complaint as DE usually tells us what they are about to implement and what they want to do with that content. Deimos might be the only exception but that's because in the middle of the pandemic they had to come up with something that's enough content and something they can make from home. Otherwise players would be shouting "Content Drought" and since the holidays are coming they probably will do that until the new content comes out. And then we will have people say things like "Stop with new content". Even tho new content keeps the game alive.

You're 3rd point is the usual greedy DE accusation that has been debunked millions of times. Rivens are free and whether you spend money to get platinum for it or not is completely your decision.

And 4th There are times when they don't listen sure. But don't act like they never did anything based on our feedback. If they would have ignored us the game would have died a long time ago. And probably you will say something like "they only listen if there's an outrage about something". But that's not true. There were some changes based on those kind of complaints of course, but most of the changes didn't happen due to that. The warframe revised and melee weapon reworks and changes to those reworks were just based on simple feedback. There wasn't a straight up outrage. Well of course in GD someone is always angry about something but that hardly counts.

Tho I kinda have a feeling after this one post that you are one of those either bash the devs 24/7 kinda guy. And everyone who disagrees is a white WhiteKnight.

I'm certainly not against defending the devs when they deserve it. I just think very differently than you on each of the points I listed. You're certainly not wrong about your opinions but I'm not wrong about mine either. Much of what I said is based on experiential interpretations of events and is thus largely influenced by subjective biases. 

I'm probably a little more bitter than most because I have spent quite a lot of money supporting DE over the years and I am getting more and more annoyed by the issues I've raised. 

kitten roar GIF

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3 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Are you saying that the devs have mentioned touching companions within the scope of Warframe Revised? I have not heard/read this information personally.

Shield Gating.. and that's it. Well, we got stasis removal when Deadlock arrived. 

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5 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Are you saying that the devs have mentioned touching companions within the scope of Warframe Revised? I have not heard/read this information personally.

I'm saying it's in the realm of possibility, in contrast with your statement that they never fix anything old ever.

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34 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'm saying it's in the realm of possibility, in contrast with your statement that they never fix anything old ever.

What i am saying is that it takes them far longer to fix things than should be acceptable. Can you honestly say it is acceptable that mods like reflection do absolutely nothing still?

What about the new war, which was supposed to come out this year? 

What about the railjack that we were shown what, a year or two ago at this point? I dont see cross mission integration, do you?

Or that necramechs still lose affinity on host migration? 

Do you think it is acceptable for very obvious imbalances to exist long enough for players to invest time and money on specific builds only for the devs to 'fix' them on a whim? I mean, come on. I am not saying the devs are horrible but the bugfixing and QA is piss-poor.

Hell, look at this last test center. We posted dozens and dozens of pages of concerns related to balance, issues and straight up errors. A tiny percentage of these issues were addressed before the update was slammed out. Heck, there were a whole slew of things added with arcana that were either not in the test update notes or not even included in test altogether.

 

I get supporting the devs and not being an ass about the their project. But I have spent way too many thousands of dollars over the years expressly for the purpose of supporting this project to sit by while they turn a blind eye to the community on all but the most asinine of topics (excluding the necramechs being added to all missions because that is, quite frankly, a real surprise).

 

Sorry if i am bitter. I just think they need to be straight with us and not jerk us around about the changes or mistakes they have made. They are an indie company doing their best (i hope) but they have really dropped the ball over the last few years.

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6 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Shield Gating.. and that's it. Well, we got stasis removal when Deadlock arrived. 

Companions AI was tweaked to be more responsive to the user movement (operator or frame in case of "independant" companions). You can even move them while they are downed if they are too far away from you (and no, no with master summons, just switching to your operator and back yo your frame if the pet didn't got close to you automatically. You can do that "forced summon" since ages while they are alive and now is even more responsive.

I mean, the AI needs more work, just like every other AI, but things have been done, I hope they continue the path of those QOL fixes.

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50 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Or that necramechs still lose affinity on host migration? 

Dude, this is not a "necramech thing", almost everything gets wipped after a host migration in most cases, if you are lucky, all or a portion of what you earned will remain. I cna't understand why people blame the necramech, I still have the same issue on regular content.

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19 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I'm saying it's in the realm of possibility, in contrast with your statement that they never fix anything old ever.

It certainly is, but I just honestly don't think it's really going to be much more than a simple sweep of easy fixes. I'd love to be proven wrong but I just don't see it.

Companions need quite a lot in all honesty.

- Beast Companions are weirdly limited with their Mod capacity, unlike Robotic Companions, as they have weapons. Why don't Beast Companions have their own weapons so they can still use their Utility/Survival Mods and have the opportunity to build for Damage, like everything else in the game? You could easily give them their own claw attachments or something, and I'm sure slapping Sentinel weapons on them for Range damage isn't all that hard when MOA's have the option.

- As we all know, most Companions have quite mediocre Precepts that are clearly out of date or just not effective, and there are quite a large amount of them to go through now. Most of the Beast Companion ones really need some review, especially if the DE is ever going to try and make Precepts universal for Companions in their class (so all Sentinels can pick each others Precepts, Kubrows can pick any of their Precepts, the list goes on).

- There's a weird disconnect between Sentinels, MOAs, Kubrows and Kavats in general. Sentinels are mostly just utility, MOAs are a weird amalgam of utility and defense, Kubrows have niche uses and Kavats are in general the best in every category due to their far more viable options (Armor Strip, increased Loot, Crits, etc). DE really needs to classify and differentiate the uses between each Companion "class" and make them all viable in their own way.

- DE has specifically designed Sentinels to really not deal massive damage, as they're essentially an automatic turret, and while I understand that, they then decided to rework Dethcube to try and deal damage. What that ended up doing was ... nothing, pretty much, as DE was unwilling to make the damage worthwhile. So it does bring up the whole question of what DE wants Sentinels to actually do, outside of being giant vacuums. Why not make it so Sentinels deal pretty good damage, but have a short delay before targeting another enemy? You can still make their weapons matter and make it so their not a completely "stay still" advocating playstyle, DE actually did something similar with Xaku's 2 (they have a fire rate delay) and Vauban's Flechette Orb (it fires randomly), both abilities scale really well but have their own specific aspects that make them balanced. If DE doesn't want that at all (like with Artax's damage), why not just remove that capability entirely? I'd rather DE not do that, but I'd also prefer them to just commit to one side or the other.

- Beast Companions (and Robotic Companions to a lesser extent) have some horrible AI tracking and functions in general. You can make Sentinels and MOA's not attack, but not Beast companions for whatever reason. Sentinels are able to stay glued to your side, and yet you can't do so with Beast and MOA's. You can't make a Companion just attack an enemy you're attacking first and foremost, you have to have a Mod set to do that, as otherwise the Companion randomly attacks nearby enemies. This is just inconvenient and kind of annoying when one Companion class is very user-friendly while the other just completely ignores you, more additions in general would be welcome of course, but DE needs to at least make what we have more of a universal thing for every Companion class.

- Venari is effectively a useless Passive ability for Khora, as it hardly does anything for her and her kit, and the fact a Companion alone is a Passive is not a very good sign. Oberon's Passive and Titania's Full Moon ability are also fairly useless, as they only buff Beast Companions (and Titania's Razorwings that deal basically no damage) and you really can't fit much damage on them to really make them shine. Additional damage, gimmicks and defense hardly matters when the core aspects of Beast Companions are just terrible. They all have terrible Status Chances, so the one thing that CAN deal damage for them, Slash Procs, are fairly unreliable. Despite how huge of a buff their Mods are their damage is still fairly random and awful, and they're supposed to be the damage dealers! 

- Numerous bug and minor fixes are of course needed as well. Kubrows and Kavats still have issues hitting enemies with their basic attacks, Beast Companions still have a high chance to just fall through geometry, Beast Companions have quite ludicrous Forma/Endo costs and offer up very little in return, Sentinels have no way to revive or heal outside of specific setups that don't do much for them (for whatever reason), the enormous list goes on and on. 

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This could be halfway solved with proper link mods on sentinels. The overall survivability of companions could use some fundamental tweaks, but the general premise would have to change, as some fundamental effects on sentinels are not compatible with invulnerability. 

They could change sentinel death to be a dormant state with only vacuum and radar. So player resurrection would be limited to the number of revives the sentinel has. They could make that a new D polarity mod. Then they could add link mods to sentinels, or combine the armor, health, shield and shield regen mods into a single mod for sentinels. Maybe making a regular and primed version. 

But as it stands, we haven't gotten a sentinel in ages, it seems like they would rather us adopt Moas and pets. If sentinels are only designed for brief and low level content, then maybe we should just stop using them. Smeeta and Vulpiphyla seem to be the only rational options at the moment. 

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1 hour ago, vanaukas said:

Companions AI was tweaked to be more responsive to the user movement (operator or frame in case of "independant" companions). You can even move them while they are downed if they are too far away from you (and no, no with master summons, just switching to your operator and back yo your frame if the pet didn't got close to you automatically. You can do that "forced summon" since ages while they are alive and now is even more responsive.

You are forced to stop moving for that to happen, which can be a life and death situation in gameplay. ESPECIALLY if you are running with squishy frames. Not a very impactful fix. I am still in opinion of complete invulnerability or auto respawn.

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12 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You are forced to stop moving for that to happen, which can be a life and death situation in gameplay. ESPECIALLY if you are running with squishy frames. Not a very impactful fix. I am still in opinion of complete invulnerability or auto respawn.

Yeah but for like a second? 2 secs? You can get very far in 3 secs, stop to pop the operator and revive them. I mean, please don't take this as defense for the actual system, I just wanted to point out the fact that they are working towards it, slowly as everything this year. I don't think invulnerability its the solution honestly, but I'm all about the respawn tho.

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Easy

add arcanes

the arcane stat for pets is a reduced revive timer.

Pets get a way to self revive. 

Sentinels,

when dead parts drop from enemies pick up 50 or so parts to revive. 

Living pets,

Revive after 180 seconds

MOA,

revive after 360 seconds find parts to reduce time.

Rivens reduces time to res and amount of parts needed

Oh and your revive mod on sentinels gets its charges back.

 

make the max level of them 40 with a Necramechs mod slots. Add some cool new mods and improve sentinel weapons.

 

Bow

thank you thank you.

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2 hours ago, vanaukas said:

 

Dude, this is not a "necramech thing", almost everything gets wipped after a host migration in most cases, if you are lucky, all or a portion of what you earned will remain. I cna't understand why people blame the necramech, I still have the same issue on regular content.

I dont remember ever losing affinity to my warframe or weapons on host migration. The only thing that has been a consistent headache is the necramech. 

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7 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I dont remember ever losing affinity to my warframe or weapons on host migration. The only thing that has been a consistent headache is the necramech. 

I do :'(, but I hadn't encountered too many HM where I'm leveling things up, so I'm not sure if that was fixed since the ast time it happened (but I'm sure at least this year I've lost exp due HM)

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DE need to decide whether or not companions should have viable offensive/CC abilities.

if yes, then they need to be vulnerable as a means of balance, but they also need to be durable enough to last in high-level missions. having their Health Link be passive instead of a mandatory mod would go a long way.

if not, and they are supposed to just be for utility, then they should be made invulnerable, since they aren't contributing as much to your performance, having them die every 2 seconds as well makes little sense.

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