Acolytes one-shot-kill moves (Mania problem)

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Mania sometimes stuns you with Switch Teleport and then knocks you on the ground ignoring Primed Sure Footed for a very long time then finishes you off even if you have 2.5k Health and 2k+ armor (probably ignores armor anyway). Is there any way to survive that? It happens very rarely but frustrating since it is not some kind of challenge but a gambling, when you easily kill it in 99% cases and 1% it one-shots you randomly on full HP with no means to avoid/counter it.
Similar situation with Malice debuffing you with Magnetize and then landing an Opticor shot that I haven't survived once (though it is easy to counter with lots of things since you can act with magnetize on you comparing to being completely stunned by Mania and watching it killing you)

[ES-Flinter]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb -AoN-CanoLathra-:

What part of 'Switch Teleport' do you not understand? When you are more than a certain distance from Mania, they will Switch Teleport you, which stuns you for ~5 seconds (and deactivates a lot of active powers, including Revenant's shrouds and Valkyr's Hysteria), then immediately run over to you, perform a knockdown attack, and then a ground finisher. Once the Switch Teleport has been done, all control of your character is gone (including entering operator) and if Mania gets to you, you will die (unless you have some sort of really specific setup, like a cheese Hildryn).

Your lack of problems with him is due to AI RNG, nothing more. I have been killed by that ability several times and it isn't fun. There's no warning, there's no skill-based cancel or prevention, and there's nothing you can do once it starts. DE needs to make it counterable. Maybe adding in the sound effect and roll-cancel from Grineer Commanders, or just adding in some way to cancel out of the knockdown. Otherwise it's just a cheep guaranteed one-shot.

and 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Scar.brother.help.me:

this:

Hardest shouldn't mean a random death with no ways to counter it.
To all generic Warframe fanboys on this forum: please, stop defending obvious flaws of the game, it only harms the game we all love.

What part of 5-10m did you both not understand? I didn't say that you should run away from him, but just stay away (far enough to be out of his melee range& Near enough so that he won't use his switch teleport= 5-10m). It has nothing to do with broken or random Ai behavor.

Don't get me wrong, but you both should learn to read the movements of the enemies. (it's like when you drive a car and you know what the driver in front of  you will do, before he does it.) 

[ES-Flinter]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb nerfinator6:

 

yeah ok

1. Stop reawaking old threads unless there's a good reason.
2. Stop taking things out of context. Just look at the times of your both qoutes. My qoutes came after the other but you qouted them in a different order...
3. Both acolytes are neither hard or OP in any way. They are both easy to kill as long as someone try to play. If you still don't want to believe me:
   1. Spoiler

      I killed Malice with a stick (Prova Vandal), while trying my best to troll it (for about 2min).

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Scar.brother.help.me:

Actually the main problem is that enemies in Warframe are in general move chaoticly ant not designed to telegraph their actions. this is a HORDE looter shooter game and enemies behave like a bunch of annoying fks that you just want to kill as soon as possible before they throw any annoying abilities at you if they have (nullifier bubblses, energy burns, knock downs, etc). You never see it coming anyway, you don't have time for it, the game is designed in a way that you don't care. This is not a Souls-like game (which I am a huge fan of) where you HAVE to care and watch out for your enemy moves carefully. Enemies like Acolytes should at least appear like Sentients do in Lua when all other enemies stop spawning until you are done with them. And sentients are way more easy to read what are they up to.

Maybe I'm different, but I have almost never a problem with reading the movements of my enemies. I also did never play Dark souls but I'm sure that warframe mini-bosses (like the acolytes) can more compared to Mario mini bosses instead of something like dark-souls. I mean hammer Bros are normally harder to kill, because they are more dangerous and have some different behave mechanics (like jumping). The same is it with acolytes. They are more dangerous (higher attack power) and have different mechanics (abilities). But in the end are they still easily to kill as long as someone know what to do.

[akots]

All acolytes are vulnerable to Magus lockdown and temporal blast, so dealing with them is rather trivial, unless some heavy lag interferes.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

Actually the main problem is that enemies in Warframe are in general move chaoticly ant not designed to telegraph their actions. this is a HORDE looter shooter game and enemies behave like a bunch of annoying fks that you just want to kill as soon as possible before they throw any annoying abilities at you if they have (nullifier bubblses, energy burns, knock downs, etc). You never see it coming anyway, you don't have time for it, the game is designed in a way that you don't care. This is not a Souls-like game (which I am a huge fan of) where you HAVE to care and watch out for your enemy moves carefully. Enemies like Acolytes should at least appear like Sentients do in Lua when all other enemies stop spawning until you are done with them. And sentients are way more easy to read what are they up to.

[(PSN)Gentleman_Raven_]

I think I finally have a good method of taking them out while avoiding being taken out- Wukong Prime using his Celestial Twin and Roar (replaced his 4 via Helminth). Acolyte shows up, mark him so your twin engages them and gets bonus damage. I continue shooting them and cast Roar to up both of our damage even more and usually that does it. Occasionally I have to use Cloud Walker to heal/make space or Defy if I'm in a good position but that's it.

I struggled for a while with the Acolytes so I completely get the frustration.

[nerfinator6]

On 2021-01-24 at 9:12 AM, ES-Flinter said:

1. Mania is a melee "frame". Stay away from him (5-10m) and he is easy killed.

 

On 2021-01-24 at 8:45 AM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Mania sometimes stuns you with Switch Teleport and then knocks you on the ground ignoring Primed Sure Footed for a very long time then finishes you off even if you have 2.5k Health and 2k+ armor (probably ignores armor anyway).

yeah ok

[project_eulogy]

On 2021-01-23 at 4:19 PM, Tyranq said:

Is there any way to survive that?

Invulnerability

The fact that she is ignoring Primes Sure Footed is concerning.

Also not only Mania can do that, almost every Acolyte can just oneshot you. It's very rare, like you said but still, it can happen. Magnetize and Opticor is quite self explenatory Imho, Magnetize multiples the dmg income and Opticor has very high base value.

Ive been getting knocked around like a rag doll by more than just Acolytes using Primed Sure Footed. Stalker, Acolytes, Most shockwaves, etc but only when i'm playing Steel Path. Normal Mode i don't have issues.

Ive even been knocked down while in Rhino's Iron Skin invincibility frames.. Not every single time, but these issues occur often enough that its extremely aggravating. So i have to assume this is just bugged.

 

Edit:

Right after I posted this, i joined and finished the Daily Essence Survival, stalker spawned as i was running to the exit and knocked me down over and over again. He wouldn't kill me, i would just get up and get knocked right back down. I had to abort the mission since i couldn't get out of the loop. lol yay features!

[Scar.brother.help.me]

On 2021-01-24 at 1:46 AM, ES-Flinter said:

What part of 5-10m did you both not understand? I didn't say that you should run away from him, but just stay away (far enough to be out of his melee range& Near enough so that he won't use his switch teleport= 5-10m). It has nothing to do with broken or random Ai behavor.

when u don't play solo Acolytes can spawn near your teammate and then decide to target you - this is how most of switch-teleport accidents happened to me

[TARINunit9]

9 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

Mania sometimes stuns you with Switch Teleport and then knocks you on the ground ignoring Primed Sure Footed for a very long time then finishes you off even if you have 2.5k Health and 2k+ armor (probably ignores armor anyway)

9 hours ago, Tyranq said:

The fact that she is ignoring Primes Sure Footed is concerning.

The problem is that Mania doesn't inflict the Knockdown proc. He inflicts the Lifted proc, which completely ignores Sure Footed

[Slayer-.]

 

5 hours ago, ES-Flinter said:

1. It's steelpath. It's supposed that mini-bosses have enough power to kill players.
2. Mania is a melee "frame". Stay away from him (5-10m) and he is easy killed.
3. Malice is a ranged enemy with an OPticor. The worst someone can do is fighting him in a ranged fight. Try to cuddle with him (even in time like now with Covid) and force him to use his knife.

Seriously guys, what were you expecting in the "hardest" warframe mode? press one button to win?

I agree you snooze you lose.

Always keep moving and stay away from them, I have melee killed them a few times though I normally just shoot them with my gun and they're dead, I've never had a problem with them until I stopped for about 2 seconds one day looking over a balcony at Malice then this happened.

killed by 1,635 damage at 637 health from a level 115 MALICE using a AcolyteOpticor

Only time I've been killed by them is when I was doing something silly or not paying attention to their movements.

I'm loving the new way to get Steel Essence, just play your normal missions as Steel Path and get a bonus a few times in the mission.

_{p.s take a smeeta you'll get 8 drop at once if you have a booster still running, times that with multiple Acolyle attacks and nice extra bonus at missions end.}

[Berzerkules]

Pretty much every Acolyte has some form of unavoidable mechanic. It doesn't create difficulty it's just lazy on the Devs part. I really like the idea of mini boss spawns in missions but I'm not a fan of Acolytes. There are ways to cheese them but I'd rather have an engaging mini boss fight that didn't rely on unavoidable mechanics. Since they use cheesy unavoidable mechanics so will I, it's just a shame that you have to build for cheese or get cheesed. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Actually using the movement system to create distance.

[Duality52]

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

• Mania is a melee "frame". Stay away from him (5-10m) and he is easy killed.
• Malice is a ranged enemy with an OPticor. The worst someone can do is fighting him in a ranged fight. Try to cuddle with him (even in time like now with Covid) and force him to use his knife.

There's more:

• Mania

Mania can lift players with his Lacera. Lift, as in lifting you into a ragdoll. His Switch Teleport has a wind-up like the Grineer Commanders. Dodge roll to wear off the Teleport effect. Mania has access to Zephyr's Turbulence, rendering gunfire near useless while baiting players into melee combat.

• Malice

Malice can cast Mag's Magnetize onto players. By doing so, all incoming ranged attacks will be amplified and redirected to the victim's head. Additionally, the Magnetized victim can shoot themselves as a result. Malice can also summon the special Corpus Nemes that has its own Codex entry. Quite interesting to see Malice slice us apart with just a Heat Dagger.

If you want an example of how people tend to underestimate Malice, I've seen a 10k Inaros Prime kill himself with his Kuva Bramma due to Magnetize.

1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

What part of 'Switch Teleport' do you not understand? When you are more than a certain distance from Mania, they will Switch Teleport you, which stuns you for ~5 seconds (and deactivates a lot of active powers, including Revenant's shrouds and Valkyr's Hysteria), then immediately run over to you, perform a knockdown attack, and then a ground finisher. Once the Switch Teleport has been done, all control of your character is gone (including entering operator) and if Mania gets to you, you will die (unless you have some sort of really specific setup, like a cheese Hildryn).

Mania's Switch Teleport follows the Grineer Commander's Switch Teleport; it's telegraphed onto you with an orange glow. You can simply roll to cancel the Teleport.

Acolytes in the Steel Path may be easy to dispose of, but they can dispose of us just as easily.

 

[Scar.brother.help.me]

1 hour ago, Tyranq said:

Invulnerability

Sure, except the case with Mania where you lose control of the game from Switch Teleport till you die. 
I don't mind some enemies to have a "killer move", but it should be brightly and loudly telegraphed before execution so you have time to react and prevent it or die if you are lazy.

[Scar.brother.help.me]

31 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

1. It's steelpath. It's supposed that mini-bosses have enough power to kill players.
2. Mania is a melee "frame". Stay away from him (5-10m) and he is easy killed.
3. Malice is a ranged enemy with an OPticor. The worst someone can do is fighting him in a ranged fight. Try to cuddle with him (even in time like now with Covid) and force him to use his knife.

Seriously guys, what were you expecting in the "hardest" warframe mode? press one button to win?

this:

18 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

What part of 'Switch Teleport' do you not understand? When you are more than a certain distance from Mania, they will Switch Teleport you, which stuns you for ~5 seconds (and deactivates a lot of active powers, including Revenant's shrouds and Valkyr's Hysteria), then immediately run over to you, perform a knockdown attack, and then a ground finisher. Once the Switch Teleport has been done, all control of your character is gone (including entering operator) and if Mania gets to you, you will die (unless you have some sort of really specific setup, like a cheese Hildryn).

Hardest shouldn't mean a random death with no ways to counter it.
To all generic Warframe fanboys on this forum: please, stop defending obvious flaws of the game, it only harms the game we all love.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

13 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Mania is a melee "frame". Stay away from him (5-10m) and he is easy killed.

What part of 'Switch Teleport' do you not understand? When you are more than a certain distance from Mania, they will Switch Teleport you, which stuns you for ~5 seconds (and deactivates a lot of active powers, including Revenant's shrouds and Valkyr's Hysteria), then immediately run over to you, perform a knockdown attack, and then a ground finisher. Once the Switch Teleport has been done, all control of your character is gone (including entering operator) and if Mania gets to you, you will die (unless you have some sort of really specific setup, like a cheese Hildryn).

Your lack of problems with him is due to AI RNG, nothing more. I have been killed by that ability several times and it isn't fun. There's no warning, there's no skill-based cancel or prevention, and there's nothing you can do once it starts. DE needs to make it counterable. Maybe adding in the sound effect and roll-cancel from Grineer Commanders, or just adding in some way to cancel out of the knockdown. Otherwise it's just a cheep guaranteed one-shot.

[fo3nixz]

another hint: if you got the nightwave ship , use its ability, it sleeps them 

[ES-Flinter]

1. It's steelpath. It's supposed that mini-bosses have enough power to kill players.
2. Mania is a melee "frame". Stay away from him (5-10m) and he is easy killed.
3. Malice is a ranged enemy with an OPticor. The worst someone can do is fighting him in a ranged fight. Try to cuddle with him (even in time like now with Covid) and force him to use his knife.

Seriously guys, what were you expecting in the "hardest" warframe mode? press one button to win?

[fo3nixz]

ensare & silence works on them, lot of them when u airborne, they are dumb

[Cefalon_Tyranq]

Is there any way to survive that?

Invulnerability

The fact that she is ignoring Primes Sure Footed is concerning.

Also not only Mania can do that, almost every Acolyte can just oneshot you. It's very rare, like you said but still, it can happen. Magnetize and Opticor is quite self explenatory Imho, Magnetize multiples the dmg income and Opticor has very high base value.