How does D.E. plan on bringing primary weapons up to speed with melee?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

32 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

This is going to be fiercely unpopular, but maaaaaybe it's time to get rid of or completely rework mods like bloodrush and weeping wounds? They integrate badly with the mixed gun and swordplay, and they're what really jacks up the damage to absurd levels.

Literally nothing else in the game but Steel Path *needs* that much damage, and it would be easier to nerf the upper end of melee performance and nerf Steel Path scaling, than it would be to rebalance _two whole classes of weapons._ There's really no justification to buff guns unless they're _also_ going to heavily buff the regular star chart.

The release of the Helminth and increasingly powerful weapons means we're probably going more forward than backwards.

If DE really wanted to make all these changes, they could have, but there's probably a 50/50 split of people that love the game how it is, and people that are bothered by it. 

I definitely wouldn't be surprised by some massive game wide nerfs and adjustments, but I also wouldn't be surprised by a shift in the opposite direction adding more power. 

You had a lot of people asking for the addition of a second ability to subsume in the future. So that shows how divided the community is.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

That's the problem. 

Things that can remove or bypass armour are good. Things that can't are not, unless they are paired with something that can. It pigeonholes the value of items arbitrarily, limiting what can be good. In turn, this ultimately limits the value of playstyles, especially combined with other factors like slow weapon switching (and yes, I know there are mods. The weapon switch speed base is far too slow, even with 'switch speed increase' in existence) which contribute to weapons needing to be jacks of all trades instead of letting the value be spread across a whole loadout. 

We have Gauss, Harrow, and probably others I'm missing to enhance holster speed as well. If a frame can't remove armor, they probably have some other gimmick that can be used against high level corrupted. The permutations with 3 weapons and a frame, and a specter, and a pet are pretty endless.

[XaoGarrent]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The release of the Helminth and increasingly powerful weapons means we're probably going more forward than backwards.

If DE really wanted to make all these changes, they could have, but there's probably a 50/50 split of people that love the game how it is, and people that are bothered by it. 

I definitely wouldn't be surprised by some massive game wide nerfs and adjustments, but I also wouldn't be surprised by a shift in the opposite direction adding more power. 

You had a lot of people asking for the addition of a second ability to subsume in the future. So that shows how divided the community is.

I don't really understand why they keep adding more and more powerful weapons, I kinda thought they hit the apex of what you can do mechanically so there's really no reason to further expand the design space through intentional power creep.

Helminth didn't change that much for the most part. Most of the frames that you actually want to use Helminth on, you want to do so because they have an ability that is just bad, or maybe not bad, but too situational. In most other cases you're trading something on a frame that's already strong across the board.

Exceptions do exist, I. E. Nova being a good example (high A tier frame with an easy choice to replace), but even then it's not so cut and dry: Nova's unique scaling means a lot of things you'd want to put on her force you into playing Slova if you do, which hampers one of the things that makes her incredibly useful to certain mission types.

And really... Let's be honest here: Accept it or not (a lot of people here are still living in denial about this), most abilities you can subsume are the bad abilities from their respective frames. Roar or Entangle are popular specifically because they aren't bad like most of the choices are. Meaning allowing you to subsume another ability will make most of the already good frames worse, not better. Putting more good abilities into Helminth... Well, that would make the popular abilities less popular!

...But it would also probably create more power creep. This is why I'm of the thought that the Helminth system probably shouldn't have even gotten past the internal testing stage. It's just way, way too hard to balance without it being useless, or overpowered.

That's never going back in the box, of course... But that doesn't mean we can't still trim some off in other ways, just a little where it makes sense.

[Loza03]

10 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

We have Gauss, Harrow, and probably others I'm missing to enhance holster speed as well. If a frame can't remove armor, they probably have some other gimmick that can be used against high level corrupted. The permutations with 3 weapons and a frame, and a specter, and a pet are pretty endless.

Again, the default is still too slow, so weapons can't be meaningfully designed to be swapped out on the fly as part of their design (as compared to something like TF2's guns - TF2 has a fast weapon swap so you can meaningfully change your equipment to  match the situation, and it can still support swap speed bonuses.).

And again, like I pointed out, it's still pigonholing your kit that something has to have armour strip or ignore (less so than before, but still) to be valuable, especially against higher level goons. The alternative is to just stack so much damage that 99.99% damage reduction  is still a oneshot, and that just makes two entire factions a complete joke anyway.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Again, the default is still too slow, so weapons can't be meaningfully designed to be swapped out on the fly as part of their design (as compared to something like TF2's guns - TF2 has a fast weapon swap so you can meaningfully change your equipment to  match the situation, and it can still support swap speed bonuses.).

And again, like I pointed out, it's still pigonholing your kit that something has to have armour strip or ignore (less so than before, but still) to be valuable, especially against higher level goons. The alternative is to just stack so much damage that 99.99% damage reduction  is still a oneshot, and that just makes two entire factions a complete joke anyway.

We're not really balancing the game around Steel path Mot, so most of it is viable. You can switch weapons while approaching the next spawn. It depends on the player. If you sit in front of a bunch of enemies and switch weapons that's on the player. You can always Magus Lockdown to switch weapons as well. There's also Vigorous Swap.

And players should be adjusting their loadouts depending on the faction. Since people admit they're too lazy and impatient to change their loadouts, that's also in the player. It's not the games fault if they provide many tools and the players don't use them. 

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

On 2021-02-07 at 4:47 AM, _4shes said:

Opinion

Melees outclass both primary and secondary when it comes to bang for your buck. Correct me if I'm wrong but in general you don't have to invest nearly as much into a melee to get it to tear and rip through everything compared to melee weapons. I've only have had to put 2-3 forma on average on a melee weapon to make it more than enough. On the other hand a lot of primaries I've had to slot 4-5 forma just to get more room for experimentation and usefulness. I'm generally curious as to how they plan to bring primaries up to speed. 

I hope they do something.  Cause I love the shooting in this game.  The guns are all different,  but the melee is mostly the same. .  It's kind of sad that in a looter shooter ,   the shooting and looting need the most fixing. ..

[Loza03]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

We're not really balancing the game around Steel path Mot, so most of it is viable. You can switch weapons while approaching the next spawn. It depends on the player. If you sit in front of a bunch of enemies and switch weapons that's on the player. You can always Magus Lockdown to switch weapons as well. There's also Vigorous Swap.

And players should be adjusting their loadouts depending on the faction. Since people admit they're too lazy and impatient to change their loadouts, that's also in the player. It's not the games fault if they provide many tools and the players don't use them. 

My point is that that, under most circumstances, there's no point to switching weapons in response to the situation you find yourself in. Because switching weapons is something that takes so long, all the game's weapons are effectively designed to be all-rounders you can use throughout the whole mission. And as a consequence, there's never any reason to not do so. Yeah, you can swap weapons between spawns, but there's no reason to do so - the weapon you were using is almost certainly just as capable of doing so, and you don't know what's around the corner anyway in order to say 'yeah my secondary would be better'. By the time you do know, you'd be wasting a second or two going through the painfully slow swap animation.

The thing about the RPG aspect of 'countless permutations' is you need to remember the other side of the coin. Anything that becomes available through permutations or the RPG elements but isn't available/reasonable to use under the base mechanics, DE have to assume that you don't have that and need to facilitate the ability to play regardless. It's like optional abilities in a Metroidvania Maybe you're at a disadvantage, possibly a tremendous disadvantage but you can. Reasonably weapon switching is just such a factor. Because you need to build to have decent weapon swap (as opposed to just having a better weapon swap. Consider how TF2 has a fast switch, but you also have stuff like the Panic Attack which is borderline instant), then DE has to assume that players aren't swapping weapons. So weapon's aren't designed to be swapped. And so weapon swapping has no purpose, weapons become monolithic, and whilst the depth to swap exists, it's pointless.

The thing about an RPG is that it could have literally infinite possibilities, but if only one strategy works, it's still as linear and shallow as anything else. Actual depth requires balance for it to be appreciable.

[GEN-Son_17]

On 2021-02-08 at 6:59 PM, XaoGarrent said:

This is going to be fiercely unpopular, but maaaaaybe it's time to get rid of or completely rework mods like bloodrush and weeping wounds? They integrate badly with the mixed gun and swordplay, and they're what really jacks up the damage to absurd levels.

Literally nothing else in the game but Steel Path *needs* that much damage, and it would be easier to nerf the upper end of melee performance and nerf Steel Path scaling, than it would be to rebalance _two whole classes of weapons._ There's really no justification to buff guns unless they're _also_ going to heavily buff the regular star chart.

I agree here. Those two mods are the only progressive mods in the game and we definitely don't need them at all. As a matter of fact, they are the central reason for most of the gameplay becoming less engaging. 

My proposal, instead, would be to eliminate them both as singular mods but add a weaker weeping wounds mod set similar to the gladiator mod set. This would allow less appealing but still powerful complete sets to be utilized with the cost of rethinking your usual setups. I'd also eliminate the sentinel set mod trick as well. 

Ever since I saw a youtuber complaining about the Khora nerf while using a prenerf video of him standing in one spot with Khora at 12x combo, CO, WW and BR, using her whipclaw endlessly, I wanted to kill that boring @$$ meta. That was the most unfun looking  crapshow ever.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

9 hours ago, Loza03 said:

My point is that that, under most circumstances, there's no point to switching weapons in response to the situation you find yourself in. Because switching weapons is something that takes so long, all the game's weapons are effectively designed to be all-rounders you can use throughout the whole mission. And as a consequence, there's never any reason to not do so. Yeah, you can swap weapons between spawns, but there's no reason to do so - the weapon you were using is almost certainly just as capable of doing so, and you don't know what's around the corner anyway in order to say 'yeah my secondary would be better'. By the time you do know, you'd be wasting a second or two going through the painfully slow swap animation.

The thing about the RPG aspect of 'countless permutations' is you need to remember the other side of the coin. Anything that becomes available through permutations or the RPG elements but isn't available/reasonable to use under the base mechanics, DE have to assume that you don't have that and need to facilitate the ability to play regardless. It's like optional abilities in a Metroidvania Maybe you're at a disadvantage, possibly a tremendous disadvantage but you can. Reasonably weapon switching is just such a factor. Because you need to build to have decent weapon swap (as opposed to just having a better weapon swap. Consider how TF2 has a fast switch, but you also have stuff like the Panic Attack which is borderline instant), then DE has to assume that players aren't swapping weapons. So weapon's aren't designed to be swapped. And so weapon swapping has no purpose, weapons become monolithic, and whilst the depth to swap exists, it's pointless.

The thing about an RPG is that it could have literally infinite possibilities, but if only one strategy works, it's still as linear and shallow as anything else. Actual depth requires balance for it to be appreciable.

You're not expending energy or becoming fatigued by switching weapons. That's your choice and that's fine. Some people can't handle active playstyles so they need something easier. It's not a big deal.

Reasons for doing anything are subjective. There's no reason to even play videogames at all. 

If you don't want to use different methods because 1 or 2 is better or more effective that's on you.

[Loza03]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You're not expending energy or becoming fatigued by switching weapons. That's your choice and that's fine. Some people can't handle active playstyles so they need something easier. It's not a big deal.

Reasons for doing anything are subjective. There's no reason to even play videogames at all. 

If you don't want to use different methods because 1 or 2 is better or more effective that's on you.

'Some people can't handle' isn't an excuse for not allowing those who can to have a fulfilling experience. There's nothing wrong with there being some easy utility weapons. When the entire sandbox is made of them because the game isn't designed to facilitate anything else, we get a problem.

As for 'you're not expending energy or becoming fatigued', consider the opportunity cost that is one and a bit seconds of not doing any damage at all that you have to go through every time. The number of circumstances where your TTK will be made better by that much could likely be counted on one hand, fewer if you consider the inherent risk that being effectively defenseless for that time adds, and that doing certain actions like rolling or casting abilities makes the weapon-switch process last even longer.

And several people have already pointed out the fallacy of 'just don't use it' - or in this case, 'just use it anyway'. The game making you choose between having fun and being effective/viable for later content is a bad thing.

[Liam]

Bramma works great

[CephalonCarnage]

On 2021-02-07 at 6:12 PM, Zimzala said:

Melee does better in a game about Space Ninjas.

Space Ninja game has uselessly useless throwing shurikens, Instead relies on being a space Samurai game. Imagine that

[Loza03]

6 minutes ago, gbjbaanb said:

Space Ninja game has uselessly useless throwing shurikens, Instead relies on being a space Samurai game. Imagine that

Actually that part is depressingly accurate, shuriken as lethal you would expect from a small, couple-centimetre blade being thrown against solid metal. Which is to say. They aren't.

 

Of course since space ninja is just a marketing term and not an indication of what the balance should look like anyway, screw realism.

[CephalonCarnage]

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Actually that part is depressingly accurate, shuriken as lethal you would expect from a small, couple-centimetre blade being thrown against solid metal. Which is to say. They aren't.

 

Of course since space ninja is just a marketing term and not an indication of what the balance should look like anyway, screw realism.

so much of that applies to melee too - I'm going to whip that Grineer to death. Grineer: "hurr hurr thick metal armour hurr hurr". I suppose a rapier, or no, or a wooden pole, or maybe nunchucks instead - they'd surely get past old Grineer's plated hide, right?

Obviously the answer to melee is to reduce the combo multipliers and all the multiplier combo mods so they just do damage. But a concept where melee is very poor against armour, perhaps even being better against shields (aka Dune) might be interesting. But DE being DE, that originally wanted Impact to work v shields, and Puncture to work v armour and Slash to work v everything else ended up with Slash being the only game in town due to bypassing the protections that it should always have been poor against. Turning rock-scissors-paper into rock-scissors-nuke.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

'Some people can't handle' isn't an excuse for not allowing those who can to have a fulfilling experience. There's nothing wrong with there being some easy utility weapons. When the entire sandbox is made of them because the game isn't designed to facilitate anything else, we get a problem.

As for 'you're not expending energy or becoming fatigued', consider the opportunity cost that is one and a bit seconds of not doing any damage at all that you have to go through every time. The number of circumstances where your TTK will be made better by that much could likely be counted on one hand, fewer if you consider the inherent risk that being effectively defenseless for that time adds, and that doing certain actions like rolling or casting abilities makes the weapon-switch process last even longer.

And several people have already pointed out the fallacy of 'just don't use it' - or in this case, 'just use it anyway'. The game making you choose between having fun and being effective/viable for later content is a bad thing.

Uhm....it's really not a big deal. People use a kuva nukor to Prime a group of enemies 10m away from them, then switch to a melee, it takes probably 1 to 2 seconds and they don't die. 

This game isn't even that serious to where saving a second matters like that. 

The majority of players aren't doing 7 hour steel path runs. 

You can stand in one spot and let enemies attack you and an R5 Grace will heal you while you're afk.

It's ok if some split second decision is important to you, but it's actually not. It's just your opinion. 

Your monster hunter game has way slower animations than warframe. 

[Danielw8]

weapons need buff (damage) melee need nerf (range and damage)

[Drachnyn]

There are two issues making melee so much more powerful than guns.

• Melee is inherently AoE. Many guns are not. If you are fighting against a horde of fodder enemies, AoE will always prevail unless you nerf the AoE damage into complete unusability. That's not generally "fixed" by giving guns more damage. What this needs is enemies that make us use normal bullet shooting guns like the stradavar for example.
  This is where DE is having a few problems like with the glass maker enemies and the new elite shield lancers, both of them have them do comperatively well against rifles but get destroyed by melee. A good version of this was in my opinion the nox unit because it encourages good accuracy with pinpoint weapons while also not shutting out other options completely.
• Melee is counterintuitively the safer option to fight. With slams and directional blocking you can negate large parts of the enemy damage output. Additionally many enemies (not all) have trouble following our movement, which makes gap closing or getting out of trouble not very dangerous. However always being on the move and always being in the thick of the enemies makes a very engaging style of play, much more exciting than hiding behind every piece of cover and abusing hitscan mechanics. This ties back to the other issue that we need enemies that encourage the use of rifles and similar guns (while not shutting out other options completely). Ancients fill that role sometimes because both toxin ancients and ancients disruptors can be very dangerous up close, although there is of course always room to improve. Toxin ancients could sometimes just delete you with their breath attack, however it never felt very clear when they were doing it and when they werent. Ancient disruptors could just clip you for your entire energy pool, but since that is based on their damage output before mitigation it is fluctuates wildly with their level, I wish it wasnt just all or nothing.

Just nerfing melee weapon range or damage without addressing these issues will make the game much worse.

[Loza03]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Uhm....it's really not a big deal. People use a kuva nukor to Prime a group of enemies 10m away from them, then switch to a melee, it takes probably 1 to 2 seconds and they don't die. 

This game isn't even that serious to where saving a second matters like that. 

The majority of players aren't doing 7 hour steel path runs. 

You can stand in one spot and let enemies attack you and an R5 Grace will heal you while you're afk.

It's ok if some split second decision is important to you, but it's actually not. It's just your opinion. 

Your monster hunter game has way slower animations than warframe. 

You manage to touch on my exact issue with the game.

Your decisions don't matter.

Split-second or otherwise. Without the proper balance in place to facilitate it, your preferred playstyle or build doesn't matter. In Monster Hunter, it does. Your build matters, and everything you bring into battle matters, and your split-second decisions matter. In Deep Rock, your decisions matter. Your build matters, where you place your utility gadgets matters, and your performance in a fight matters. Decisions matter in DOOM. Decisions matter in Mario. They matter in Animal Crossing, and Civilisation. They even matter in Dungeons and Dragons, so long as your DM is good at their job. Balance is about making your decisions matter. It's about making your playstyle matter, about making your skill matter, about making you matter in the game world.

Warframe makes your decisions not matter. The same strategies work in most, if not all content. You never get challenged, or made to think. Your weapons are designed to have few, in any appreciable flaws, because you're expected to use it through the whole mission. Energy is so free and cheap to get that using an ability is, unless there's a nullifier, always the best solution (especially with older frames). The enemy type is irrelevent (again, unless it's a nullifier) because you can snap your fingers and it doesn't have AI or a health bar any more.

So why bother? What's the point? I have all these options, and none of them matter.

[TeaHands]

Just gonna throw in my suggestion cuz we just havin fun. Melee based enemies that can cancel your combo if they block you?

That would definitely make you more careful about you approach hoards of enemies and not just spam to kingdom come.

I feel like most weapons are fine, maybe just give the non-AOE ones some better punch through so they can also take on hordes of enemies too?

Or if people really feel like non-AOEs don't have enough oomph, add a build up meter for an alternate fire like the Trumna or Battacor. But get creative with them.

Like after five (or however many) kills and activate the Alternate Fire you get a huge increase in Crit chance, Crit damage, Status chance, Fire Rate, or add a small AOE to bullets for a limited time.

Maybe at full meter you can empty the whole clip in a second like the Athodai, you get a shield like Volt's that you can carry around and protects you, just straight up get a rocket or glaive like the Cedo. I feel like the possibilities are endless if you start slapping unique Alternate Fires on Primaries. Though that may be too ridiculous or OP.

[Zimzala]

3 hours ago, gbjbaanb said:

Space Ninja game has uselessly useless throwing shurikens, Instead relies on being a space Samurai game. Imagine that

More powerful shuriken would be fun, preferably explody fun.

The game to a large degree with it's story is more Samurai than Ninja in a ton of places, totally agree.

IMO, none of that is a reason to grouse over the minutiae of the game as if it is supposed to be some kind of simulator, it's still just a video game, something to do to pass the time for entertainment and relaxation, so I have no desire to pick it apart, I prefer to just have fun and move on with life.

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Uhm....it's really not a big deal. People use a kuva nukor to Prime a group of enemies 10m away from them, then switch to a melee, it takes probably 1 to 2 seconds and they don't die. 

Equipped gun to melee and melee to equipped gun weapon switching is instant.  It's only switching between ranged weapons that holster speed is a limiter.

Which is one reason why knukor priming for melee is common, but priming between ranged weapons not so much.

[Aldain]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

You manage to touch on my exact issue with the game.

Your decisions don't matter.

Split-second or otherwise. Without the proper balance in place to facilitate it, your preferred playstyle or build doesn't matter. In Monster Hunter, it does. Your build matters, and everything you bring into battle matters, and your split-second decisions matter. In Deep Rock, your decisions matter. Your build matters, where you place your utility gadgets matters, and your performance in a fight matters. Decisions matter in DOOM. Decisions matter in Mario. They matter in Animal Crossing, and Civilisation. They even matter in Dungeons and Dragons, so long as your DM is good at their job. Balance is about making your decisions matter. It's about making your playstyle matter, about making your skill matter, about making you matter in the game world.

Warframe makes your decisions not matter. The same strategies work in most, if not all content. You never get challenged, or made to think. Your weapons are designed to have few, in any appreciable flaws, because you're expected to use it through the whole mission. Energy is so free and cheap to get that using an ability is, unless there's a nullifier, always the best solution (especially with older frames). The enemy type is irrelevent (again, unless it's a nullifier) because you can snap your fingers and it doesn't have AI or a health bar any more.

So why bother? What's the point? I have all these options, and none of them matter.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

You manage to touch on my exact issue with the game.

Your decisions don't matter.

Split-second or otherwise. Without the proper balance in place to facilitate it, your preferred playstyle or build doesn't matter. In Monster Hunter, it does. Your build matters, and everything you bring into battle matters, and your split-second decisions matter. In Deep Rock, your decisions matter. Your build matters, where you place your utility gadgets matters, and your performance in a fight matters. Decisions matter in DOOM. Decisions matter in Mario. They matter in Animal Crossing, and Civilisation. They even matter in Dungeons and Dragons, so long as your DM is good at their job. Balance is about making your decisions matter. It's about making your playstyle matter, about making your skill matter, about making you matter in the game world.

Warframe makes your decisions not matter. The same strategies work in most, if not all content. You never get challenged, or made to think. Your weapons are designed to have few, in any appreciable flaws, because you're expected to use it through the whole mission. Energy is so free and cheap to get that using an ability is, unless there's a nullifier, always the best solution (especially with older frames). The enemy type is irrelevent (again, unless it's a nullifier) because you can snap your fingers and it doesn't have AI or a health bar any more.

So why bother? What's the point? I have all these options, and none of them matter.

They actually do matter. Unless I subsume shooting Gallery or silence or some other ranged CC on my frame, Mot regular and Steel path slowly become pretty tough. All those bullets coming at you from different directions do matter, because corrupted enemies do 3x damage. 

I'm not a camper so I actually run around instead of sitting in one spot.

Like zimzala just typed though: 

"none of that is a reason to grouse over the minutiae of the game as if it is supposed to be some kind of simulator, it's still just a video game, something to do to pass the time for entertainment and relaxation, so I have no desire to pick it apart, I prefer to just have fun and move on with life."

If the game bothers you so much, you just named multiple other games that you can play. I'm heading back into a mission to try some different things out, since my builds and decisions matter, to me at least.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

40 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Equipped gun to melee and melee to equipped gun weapon switching is instant.  It's only switching between ranged weapons that holster speed is a limiter.

Which is one reason why knukor priming for melee is common, but priming between ranged weapons not so much.

I mod for holster speed, or make builds centered around Gauss' Redline, but that's just my choice. You know that whole freedom to do whatever you want in a sandbox thing. His 4 is basically made for gun play.

 

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

So why bother? What's the point? I have all these options, and none of them matter.

Bold mine.

Fun without consequences.

Pretty simple, really.

You don't have to like it. Plenty of us do like it. Plenty of us just play games to relax and not think about the real world, without being driven by an underlying Protestant Work Ethic preventing us from just passing the time without feeling the need to be 'productive' and 'advance'. WF is just another round of Space Invaders to me, it has no more bearing on my life then Galaga did, it's just a fun game to play when in the mood, nothing more.

Many of us recognize, deeply, that games don't have to have a point other than to provide entertainment. I am not a sports fan, so I don't keep up or watch sports, for example, I don't find it entertaining, but I don't go telling sports fans they are being led astray, I simply ignore it, as I do all the video games I no longer find entertaining, I don't try and tear them down.

If there is no point for you in your opinion in playing a game, there is nothing 'wrong' about that, is just 'is'. It just means you don't like that game, you have beaten it, whatever.

Why so many people that play WF feel like they have to turn on the game like a jilted lover once they are 'finished' is incredibly interesting though, IMO.