Melee is OP but I still use guns more because I find them more fun

[Soy77]

21 hours ago, Guybrush88 said:

 

I believe end of the day, most players will use the weapons that are powerful enough to kill and at the same time are fun and enjoyable to use.

 

Same here. I use something fun more than i use something strong.

There are a lot of meta weapons that i keep just for the sake of having them. I don't really bring them to missions, because i don't enjoy them as much.

From what i see, many people are actually on the same boat as us. Apparently a youtuber thinks otherwise and DE listens to them. Cmiiw

[vegetosayajin]

21 hours ago, Guybrush88 said:

However pretty much any average gun that is decently modded will still easily kill 90% of the <level 100 star chart enemies.

Any gun that's decently modded will kill 100% of the <level 100 star chart enemies.
The discussion about melee and guns is pretty old but it gained traction with the introduction of SP (because of the boosted enemy stats and when more and more people began to try/play it).
It was never a factor in the sub 120lv enemies, many meme videos showed how you could kill them with almost anything(including fishing spears).

In terms when DE introduced a little more chunky enemies to the common player(sp, part of railjack) it showed the inadequacy of guns when the levels got a little over the common enemies.

Before "hard enemies"(read just more armour, shield etc) were reserved for the 1% of tenno who wanted to go on long mission, but with the boosted stats sp enemies represent levels that most tenno never had to fight(lv120 enemy on sp is much "stronger" then a lv 120 on the normal star chart).

tl;dr guns do need a buff, because there is popular "harder content" in the game, not like before when there was none.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

These days I mostly play steel path survival, except for relic opening and sorties from time to time.
The Cedo + any melee with > 25% CHC and > 20% status chance, with slash as main damage is insanely superior to other weapons. Even mausolon or Cortege can't compete (they are OK, but not as good).

The few exception to the condition overload / viral + slash meta are sentients in lua or the stalker. To a point that I played the survival in lua to have some variety (Paracesis, still blood rush, but without condition overload, corrosive), but even then melee so strong that it outshines most guns. A corrosive melee weapon is better at defeating corpus than an assault rifle with toxin damage 🤨

[Guybrush88]

1 hour ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

I also, use guns instead of melee because I find them to be More Fun

Not disagreeing with that Fun aspect

 

the problem is, that I Can't use them, if my melee spamming squadmates kill everything First.

I end up being unable to keep up, and that's Not Fun.

 

So, I do think there needs to be a buff or some other kind of rebalancing...

 

or I could just play Solo all the time but that's kinda lame

Well depends on map type

 

For those with narrow corridors and tight spaces i.e. Eris, then player using melee and sprinting ahead will kill everything fast. Then again, sprinting ahead and killing everything with warframe powers with zero melee/gun usage also happens.

 

Maps with big wide open rooms and open world let guns shine

[Sovyul]

Post Soma Prime mod loadout that can do a full survival rotation on Ani, no primed or riven mods allowed, and the frame is going to be Trinity/P to make sure you don't die of course

[Guybrush88]

1 hour ago, vegetosayajin said:

tl;dr guns do need a buff, because there is popular "harder content" in the game, not like before when there was none.

I don't agree. One reason SP was introduced was to provide "harder content". Buffing guns basically defeats the purpose of introducing "harder content".

Harder content + more powerful weapons = normal content -> back to square one

Also I'd argue that SP is not really that popular anyway. Outside of dailies and SE farming, i doubt most players bother to do SP

[vegetosayajin]

14 minutes ago, Guybrush88 said:

One reason SP was introduced was to provide "harder content". Buffing guns basically defeats the purpose of introducing "harder content".

The biggest "reason" as far as I recall was because they didn't wanted everyone to "promote" the game in simulacrum in their videos. I think I kinda did it's job.
And no, more armour/health is not harder content, with our current gear, the one thing it did it show much more then before that guns are almost useless when the stats scale past a point. So we are at square one even before sp got released, just most people didn't go over 15 min in a mission to notice.
 

14 minutes ago, Guybrush88 said:

Also I'd argue that SP is not really that popular anyway. Outside of dailies and SE farming, i doubt most players bother to do SP

No it's not, but it's still more popular then conclave and maybe even railjack(before this last update dropped).

[Aldain]

40 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

And no, more armour/health is not harder content, with our current gear, the one thing it did it show much more then before that guns are almost useless when the stats scale past a point.

^That.

It also showed the futility of just cranking numbers up when players will either slam bigger numbers into it or just turn the A.I. off instead, further outlining the general imbalance of the game, which has carried over into content launched since Steel Path came out where DE has been having to spam massive DR, slather immunities on everything or even turn the entire core gameplay other than platforming off just to make content that the players won't steamroll in 5 minutes (and they still do because lolpowercreep).

[RazerXPrime]

Melee is great for that 1% of the regular content and for Steel Path. For anything else you're better off using guns. Melee has scaling damage as well as some abilities and that's the only thing that sets it apart from guns or those abilities that do not scale. This is the only aspect that DE needs to look into when looking at balancing and looking at content above level 80 or so.

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

3 hours ago, Guybrush88 said:

I don't agree. One reason SP was introduced was to provide "harder content". Buffing guns basically defeats the purpose of introducing "harder content".

Harder content + more powerful weapons = normal content -> back to square one

Also I'd argue that SP is not really that popular anyway. Outside of dailies and SE farming, i doubt most players bother to do SP

Buffing guns doesn't defeat that purpose if they are only buffed to the same level as melee. The difficulty of content isn't effected, just how players can (viably) choose to approach it.

 

[vegetosayajin]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Shelneroth said:

how players can (viably) choose to approach it.

 

Yes, having more options. That's the main point of all the topics, videos etc for the last months...

The sad thing the way it's implemented (I hope not...) will probably come out like the removal of self damage last year - everyone will be unhappy about it. No one wanted self stagger, no one wanted even non-self damage weapons to get self stagger, but it's still here. :D

[Silligoose]

Personally I prefer using a combination of Warframe Abilities, Guns and Melee as I go through the SP starchart, as I find this most enjoyable. For specific missions eg ESO, I go with the laziest option (Warframe abilities) so I can watch something while I'm grinding.

I find guns to be powerful enough for SP and if this was a single player game, I wouldn't care that melee is so much more powerful compared to guns, however, I do understand players wanting a better balance in offensive power when it comes to squad play, as it can be frustrating to see a teammate wipe everything with a single, simplistic mechanic.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 hours ago, Sovyul said:

Post Soma Prime mod loadout that can do a full survival rotation on Ani, no primed or riven mods allowed, and the frame is going to be Trinity/P to make sure you don't die of course

You didn't specify Steel Path so that's rather easy mate. Pretty much any gun can do 20 mins of Void Survival. And Trinity is a terrible choice, compliment your weapon instead.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

il y a 7 minutes, -CdG-Zilchy a dit :

You didn't specify Steel Path so that's rather easy mate. Pretty much any gun can do 20 mins of Void Survival. And Trinity is a terrible choice, compliment your weapon instead.

not sure why trin is a bad choice, she has 75% RD twice and then adaptation, so you can do 20min survival in Mot EzPz. subsume her 1st with something better and you have a good frame.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

not sure why trin is a bad choice, she has 75% RD twice and then adaptation, so you can do 20min survival in Mot EzPz. subsume her 1st with something better and you have a good frame.

Because you don't need health regen when you have operator arcanes that can do the same thing. I'd rather use a frame that increases my weapon damage. But yes you are correct that for a 20 min survival anything will do the job. 

[Sovyul]

41 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

You didn't specify Steel Path so that's rather easy mate. Pretty much any gun can do 20 mins of Void Survival. And Trinity is a terrible choice, compliment your weapon instead.

AHAHAHAHAAHA

[-CdG-Zilchy]

8 minutes ago, Sovyul said:

AHAHAHAHAAHA

Yes very informative answer that. Perhaps you could explain what you find so funny with all your Warframe experience having completed only about 3 Steel path missions?

[0_The_F00l]

4 hours ago, Guybrush88 said:

I don't agree. One reason SP was introduced was to provide "harder content". Buffing guns basically defeats the purpose of introducing "harder content".

True, they really should nerf melee instead.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

Probably some content creator said they are bad and DE just went with their word.l which is the saddest thing ever.

When they announced that partners were ending I hoped it stayed that way, I'm sure some of them are nice people irl but curses taking their word only and applying to the game is rather annoying

[Sovyul]

19 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Yes very informative answer that. Perhaps you could explain what you find so funny with all your Warframe experience having completed only about 3 Steel path missions?

Sorry, I thought you were playing dumb on purpose so I found it funny.

Well then, same conditions as before but in SP and Trinity stays because we're talking about the guns here only, so no cheeky warframe tricks allowed.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, Sovyul said:

Sorry, I thought you were playing dumb on purpose so I found it funny.

Well then, same conditions as before but in SP and Trinity stays because we're talking about the guns here only, so no cheeky warframe tricks allowed.

All good. Ok I admit that's harder. I'd say best chance of success would be using Hunter Munitions with the decent crit chance and rate of fire. I actually wouldn't recommend a riven because the disposition isn't great but yeh with a weaker weapon like the Soma it could get a bit interesting. Argon Scope + HM probably the best way.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

38 minutes ago, Sovyul said:

Sorry, I thought you were playing dumb on purpose so I found it funny.

Well then, same conditions as before but in SP and Trinity stays because we're talking about the guns here only, so no cheeky warframe tricks allowed.

Btw I'm curious as to why you chose Soma? I mean I could just as easily say, "go beat it with a Kestrel" cos that's melee. It's not like Soma is a decent primary, there are many far better suited to Steel Path. The choice of not using Primed mods is also strange seeing as most melee builds use rank 15 Acolyte mods and often Primed Reach. These kinds of mods and rivens also, should be part of any build consideration for Steel Path.

[Aldain]

6 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Btw I'm curious as to why you chose Soma? I mean I could just as easily say, "go beat it with a Kestrel" cos that's melee. It's not like Soma is a decent primary, there are many far better suited to Steel Path. The choice of not using Primed mods is also strange seeing as most melee builds use rank 15 Acolyte mods and often Primed Reach. These kinds of mods and rivens also, should be part of any build consideration for Steel Path.

I'd debate that Riven mods are far too variable to be a relevant point of consideration personally, not everyone has access to a specific Riven mod for example.

Primed mods sure, because anyone can and eventually will get those at some point, but many people out there are like me, the guy who unveils the Riven mods for the jokiest of joke tier weapons (My fabled Aklato Riven that is all Multishot and Damage and STILL sucks at Sortie levels).

If we're talking a measure of balance, anything tied to RNG shouldn't be a factor in judging effectiveness if the effectiveness varies wildly from person to person.

But that's just me.

[Serafim_94]

8 часов назад, vegetosayajin сказал:

tl;dr guns do need a buff, because there is popular "harder content" in the game, not like before when there was none.

Sure, Let's take hard content and buff S#&amp;&#036; till that content is piss-easy like the rest of the game.

[Sovyul]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Btw I'm curious as to why you chose Soma? I mean I could just as easily say, "go beat it with a Kestrel" cos that's melee. It's not like Soma is a decent primary, there are many far better suited to Steel Path. The choice of not using Primed mods is also strange seeing as most melee builds use rank 15 Acolyte mods and often Primed Reach. These kinds of mods and rivens also, should be part of any build consideration for Steel Path.

Because I like Soma, or minigun-like guns

correction: i like any gun that has a very fast of rate of fire paired with large magazines