Josh Strife Hayes and Warframe

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Then how are the people that currently figured out the game and thriving doing it? 

Probably the thousands of hours of unnecessary trial and error veterans have spent uncovering arcane and opaque mechanics, building resources, and teaching to other players? Something like that. Y'know, the stuff the developers should be doing.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

This is horrendous logic. Just because current players have had friends help them or spent hours using third party sources to learn the game does not mean it's too much to ask for DE to just make the game more accessible by adding more tips and comprehensive explanations. 

 

 

Them adding help for new and returning players would be a net positive for literally everyone who plays they game. 

I really hope they do. But remember that if you give people an inch, they'll ask for a mile. There's also time and whether it's worth it to divert resources and time. 

It's not a tutorial that's keeping people from coming. Average people like to bandwagon and bounce from whatever is hot at the moment. This is why casuals that couldn't get their way were trying to hold DE hostage basically saying "Do what I say or I'm going to destiny". Not realizing that no one cared in the first place.

[Teridax68]

8 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Weird....do you have PhD in human behavior? A therapist or doctor?

No, just a modicum of self-awareness and basic human empathy. I'm certainly the type to go out of my way to make something work, even if it's not worth it, and that's what let me stick through the rough learning curve. Doesn't mean anyone else should have to go through that trouble in the future if it can be avoided, especially if it brings DE more paying customers.

[NocheLuz]

I may have joined this train rather late but after I watch his 2 (or 3?) videos about Warframe, I absolutely agree with him. As a long-time player who had played this game since it's open beta (and I think someone points out to me that it is still in beta right now...), I don't really encounter most of his problem. Because for me, most of the game systems only introduce to me one at a time and not as a chunk. His video makes me rethink what I already know about Warframe and why new players find it hard to understand the system. Maybe it is was me who unconsciously overlook those problems? Even now I had overlooked a lot of game design by not engaging with it and unconsciously think it never exists. But I think what DE really needs is a player like him that can point out the problem and complain about them, not a player like me who avoids the problem and does not complain about it.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

On 2021-08-13 at 3:56 AM, PublikDomain said:

 

And I am trying and looking at this myself, I've got a new account and I've recorded every piece of gameplay I've done so far. I'm up to Jupiter. It's been 6-7 hours total. You're able to do this, too. Plugging your ears and pretending issues don't exist just because an outsider brought them up is not exactly being very objective, is it?

I HAVE done this, thank you very much.  I have several different accounts on multiple systems, in fact.  I'm not "plugging my ears"... I just disagree with you.  Fancy that.

You keep insisting that I believe what I never said I do/did.  You keep insisting I "feel" a certain way, when that isn't what I've said at ALL.  

I'm not pretending issues don't exist. I'm pointing out that issues raised, particularly in the videos of a player who has less than a few weeks of playtime, aren't the "dire" issues that y'all are making them out to be.

You act like Warframe is a dumpster fire, and yet anyone with eyeballs can see that it's not only survived, but THRIVED, for over 8 years now... and thus clearly is not burning to the ground.   

I'm NOT saying there isn't room for improvement.  Certainly, there is.... but that doesn't mean every complaint brought up is objectively valid.
 

On 2021-08-13 at 1:04 PM, Monolake said:

Thats why CONVERSION is the metric for f2p games - make them interested, make them stay, "convert" them into regular players who are likely to spend money. Player retention is absolutely crucial and where DE fails on both ends (WF still has very good conversion rate vs most f2p garbage and remains profitable but fails to grow despite all the effort and the content being constantly added)

What metrics are we running with here, just to be clear?  Because Steam metrics don't cover players using the game's own launcher, nor do they factor in console players, which are considerable in number, as well.  Just looking for context.

On 2021-08-13 at 3:18 PM, Kontrollo said:

I think it couldn't initially, because it used different scales and there was no way to seamlessly transition from one instance to the next. But Archwing was basically its own thing, too, not propped onto existing game systems. So call it a content island, but not parasitic.

So I'd rather say there's some overlap between parasitic elements and content islands, but they're not the same.

 

Anyway, maybe it's just me getting a different impression on what is what. I don't actually mean to detract from the things that are problems in this game. Just going to roll my eyes when the next buzzword wave rolls around. Anyone remember the "year of quality"? 😃

I agree that we ought not conflate the two terms, either.   

If we imagine a professional kitchen, ...  It'd be "parasitic design" to open up a NEW business in an extra adjacent room that uses materials from the MAIN kitchen, but does not pay them profits from sales.  They take, but do not give back... 

...whereas it'd be a "content island" to simply open an adjacent room into a 2nd business that operates entirely separate from the first one, using it's own inventory and making it's own profits, but still compliments the first business.  (Like having a coffee shop open up on the backend of a bakery.) 

I don't see the two terms as "the same" at all, and I, too, wish people would not just hop on the latest "buzzword" trends without critical thinking applied first.

 

13 hours ago, (PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

DE is doing new players a disservice. And at a time where other games are bleeding players this is a time where Warframe could be picking up new people. That's something everyone should want, but with the way the game is structured most new players probably won't even make it to Mars. Not because they don't want to, but because they don't know how. 

This forum is littered with Dunning-Kruger, I swear...

Why would anyone with a reasonable mind think that we, some players who are not a member of the staff, nor shareholders in the company, can "see all the issues", and that DE, itself, would not have MORE data, a clearer idea of the issues, and more stakes in the game itself?  

Where do we all get off telling the developers how their game works? 

Feedback is fine...  but do you really think you see something as massive and obvious as "player retention issues en masse" that DE doesn't?  Do we all think they're not aware of whatever issues you think might be a problem?

In fact, evidence shows that Warframe has been seeing a steady increase in overall concurrent players...  They're growing consistently, year over year, even to the point that Tencent took notice of them...

...and after 8 years, they're still developing and growing this game.  CLEARLY it's profitable, or they wouldn't be doing it. 

I remember when I was working hard to lose weight, and every time I'd have ANY issue... be it asthma, panic attacks, just some back pain... I'd instantly get "Well, did you try losing some weight?  You're a little overweight.  Did you notice your weight?"

Like "naaaw, I only wake up and see my reflection every dang day, shop for my own clothes, and live in this body....  I had no idea. Tell me more.    /s"

That's how it feels reading through these forums sometimes.  It's not constructive feedback, it's just "Hey, DE!  Did you know this really obvious metric about your own game that you work at every day of your waking hours, and depend on to keep a roof over your heads?  Did you?  Because I, the kid playing at home in my off time, with absolutely no dev or business experience, ABSOLUTELY noticed and demand you fix it yesterday, to MY specifications!" 

It's just ridiculous and unproductive.  

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Josh Strife Hayes clearly exaggerates often in his reviews. He makes mountains out of molehills. He doesn't get a complete picture of the games in question. I don't agree with everything he criticized. However, his experience with Warframe overall, matches up with nearly 99% of all "first impression" playthroughs I've watched of people without a guide who has played Warframe and can explain things to them.

The disconnect I see, between the Devs and this reality, is that DE's "metrics" are giving them bad information, OR they're fine taking the loss of players who experience their game for the first time without a guide. They have gone on the record on Dev streams or interviews saying things like 'changes to the new player experience doesn't lead to higher retention rates'... but what changes are they talking about? Just to the beginner tutorial up to Vor's Prize? Are they talking about graphic improvements? I don't think they're looking at the right information.

I know I'm personally an outlier. I solo everything, I research everything in depth, I don't mind a grind - to a point. I personally didn't need an actual player to walk me through by the hand; but I did have Youtube guides instead, practically doing the same thing. I did have wiki pages explaining everything that the game totally leaves out. I "pushed past" the rough spots, because the core gameplay itself was fun enough. "Pushing through" bad patches of the game is not something you can rely on everyone who might otherwise like the game, to do reliably. People who aren't invested in the story, or friends, or the customization and build options available to them (because they just don't understand all the systems in play), COULD be kept in the game with several improvements to the "New Player Experience", which I'd define as the story up to Natah, understanding modding, understanding where they get everything and how they get the components (purchasing blueprints for credits instead of plat, where you get resources, how you open planets, how you get new quests, what their goals should be - step by step...)...

The "New Player Experience" doesn't end at Vor's Prize. To me, DE fits the meme where there's a dog sitting at a table in a room on fire, saying "This is fine"... when talking about the New Player Experience... because they're being held aloft by players who are assuming the bulk of the "on boarding" phase of the game. The game itself is doing its best to push players away in the early game. Veterans walking new players through this are essentially giving them an oxygen mask and clearing the way with a firehose, telling people that it's just the lobby that's on fire... the rest of the place is great.

Whether or not the number of players who they lose to this is significant enough to invest time in making a polished experience is "worth it"... seems pretty clear cut to me.

Sure, go ahead and call me an armchair dev who doesn't have all the data... but I think you're ignoring reality. (I am currently a hobbyist game developer, programming and creating games of my own, though none are near publishing as of now, given my part time job and other realities of life, and working as a team of 1)

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

17 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Because those people had nothing better to do, have addictive personalities, are predisposed to bend over backwards to make things work, or any combination of the above, and blundered through hours of poorly-explained, feature creep-laden gameplay, slogged through page after page on the wiki trying to make sense of the game's systems, or both, until eventually we started coming to grips with the game (and didn't abandon it on the way). The notion that better tutorials are useless, just because some subset of prospective new players still commit regardless, is along the same lines of idiotic reasoning as claiming we don't need medicine because technically some people survive diseases without it.

Or some people just look at an online guide or had some friends to help them through the start of the game, alot of projecting here. 

Also still haven't gotten an answer on why i should care about this josh hayes person and their opinions

[Teridax68]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Or some people just look at an online guide or had some friends to help them through the start of the game, alot of projecting here. 

Which still falls into the category of going above and beyond what is reasonable just to enjoy a game. In the end, you are still making excuses for Warframe's notoriously poor new player experience, and refusing to see the value of improvements that would make this community bigger, and provide DE with more income. Do you not want this game to succeed as best it can?

1 hour ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Also still haven't gotten an answer on why i should care about this josh hayes person and their opinions

Because clearly, launching a pointless question into the void entitles you to an answer from a specific person. Are you asking this out of genuine curiosity, or is this just more attention-seeking behavior?

EDIT: On the undue assumption that this is a genuine question: nobody is asking you to care about Josh Strife Hayes as a person. He isn't some messianic figure whose every word is gospel, he's just some dude with a YouTube channel. The reason why people point to his videos is because the actual contents of what he says are accurate, with solid argumentation, facts, and examples used to support his points. Had you made even the slightest effort to watch the relevant stuff, you would've seen that he also took the time to debunk your own position. He is by no means the first person to criticize Warframe as he did, and he will certainly not be the last if nothing changes. It is clear as well that, unlike many people on here, he argues out of genuine good faith, and out of a true desire to see Warframe grow and improve, along with other games he likes. This is why we ought to listen to him, and why we shouldn't be actively trying to prevent the game we love from continuing to grow just because we're afraid of change, or just don't see how we would personally benefit from change.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

38 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Which still falls into the category of going above and beyond what is reasonable just to enjoy a game. 

Not that hard to pull up a youtube video on a new tab or smartphone or ask a friend. There even a chat channel for people to ask questions. Not sure why this is so hard to use basic skills to aquire info. 

42 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Because clearly, launching a pointless question into the void entitles you to an answer from a specific person. Are you asking this out of genuine curiosity, or is this just more attention-seeking behavior?

How is asking who the hell this rando youtuber attention seeking? This thread is going for 15 pages so i wondering what the big deal is with this guy and why should i care so much about his review for a game im already enjoy and play.

[Teridax68]

Just now, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Not that hard to pull up a youtube video on a new tab or smartphone or ask a friend. There even a chat channel for people to ask questions. Not sure why this is so hard to use basic skills to aquire info. 

Your lack of empathy for others and their indisposition towards accommodating a game that should be doing the reverse is not a universal truth. Please at least try to understand that not everyone wants or needs to go through that trouble just to enjoy a video game, which is why most people don't make it past the first 2 hours of Warframe. Bringing people down for not putting that sort of undue work into just picking up a game is not going to bring more people to the fold, and doesn't exactly convey the impression of a friendly or healthy community either.

Just now, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

How is asking who the hell this rando youtuber attention seeking?

Because you seemed personally offended that this question you asked to seemingly nobody in particular wasn't answered, and decided to take that out on me for whichever strange reason. It is very much like a child acting out for attention and then getting angry when they're ignored.

Just now, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

This thread is going for 15 pages so i wondering what the big deal is with this guy and why should i care so much about his review for a game im already enjoy and play.

You talk so much about how you don't see pulling up YouTube videos as difficult to do, yet here you are, visibly refusing to do just that to inform yourself. Instead, you think yourself entitled to bother other people, ask them to do the work for you, and have them present a version of it that is palatable to your biases and wilful ignorance. If you fail to see the point of this thread and don't believe Warframe needs any changes, feel free to step out of this thread and have other arguments elsewhere, but please stop going out of your way to impede discussion.

[Zimzala]

All this drama over a rando's YouTube video.

And people at each others throats over these subjective opinions, over a video game.

Everyone realizes this is just a video game right?

Right?

Some of these posts IMO seem to be trying to conflate the game into some kind of universal happiness utility company that has to appeal to every single human or it's somehow wrong.

It's a game.

Some people like to research their games, some do not.

That's it.

Some people will like the style, some will not.

Style and Creative Output are Art, and just because you don't like the art, does not mean it's wrong.

Art critics have been getting people worked up over nothing for thousands of years, art critics are IMO some of our worst members of society because of this useless drama they create.

Why let this YouTube rando have so much power over the narrative?

Baffling.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

All this drama over a rando's YouTube video.

And people at each others throats over these subjective opinions, over a video game.

Everyone realizes this is just a video game right?

Right?

Some of these posts IMO seem to be trying to conflate the game into some kind of universal happiness utility company that has to appeal to every single human or it's somehow wrong.

It's a game.

Some people like to research their games, some do not.

That's it.

Some people will like the style, some will not.

Style and Creative Output are Art, and just because you don't like the art, does not mean it's wrong.

Art critics have been getting people worked up over nothing for thousands of years, art critics are IMO some of our worst members of society because of this useless drama they create.

Why let this YouTube rando have so much power over the narrative?

Baffling.

He doesn't have power over anything. All he did was shine a light on a problem that Warframe has had for years. The lack of anything resembling an explanation or direction beyond the initial tutorial and maybe a brief paragraph here and there. The game does not do a good job explaining itself to new and returning players. 

 

And yes as you brilliantly pointed out it is "just a video game", but we are on the forum of that video game. We are in the discussion section of that video game. So of course people are going to want to talk about it and discuss it. I'm really sure why you are surprised by that. 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Your lack of empathy for others and their indisposition towards accommodating a game that should be doing the reverse is not a universal truth. 

Lack of empathy for assuming people knowing how to do a basic  google/youtube search?!  Sorry if assuming people just think to use common technology at their disposal to find answers is somehow "putting people down".

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

Because you seemed personally offended that this question you asked to seemingly nobody in particular wasn't answered, and decided to take that out on me for whichever strange reason. It is very much like a child acting out for attention and then getting angry when they're ignored.

No it's cause no has really brought a reason to care about this reviewer and you said a question equal attention seeking from some bizzare logic.

1 hour ago, Teridax68 said:

You talk so much about how you don't see pulling up YouTube videos as difficult to do, yet here you are, visibly refusing to do just that to inform yourself. Instead, you think yourself entitled to bother other people, ask them to do the work for you, and have them present a version of it that is palatable to your biases and wilful ignorance. If you fail to see the point of this thread and don't believe Warframe needs any changes, feel free to step out of this thread and have other arguments elsewhere, but please stop going out of your way to impede discussion.

Cause I don't want to waste my #*!%ing time watching what could be a extremely S#&$ video i got better things to watch on youtube, don't have alot free time between 2 jobs so i kinda want to not waste my time. 

Think ill just flag the vid cause this discussion over some rando vid is getting ridiculous, one review isn't going to change the game overall. Warframe does need changes but why let some rando dude on youtube speak for you? 

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)The Neko Otaku said:

Lack of empathy for assuming people knowing how to do a basic  google/youtube search?!  Sorry if assuming people just think to use common technology at their disposal to find answers is somehow "putting people down".

No it's cause no has really brought a reason to care about this reviewer and you said a question equal attention seeking from some bizzare logic.

Cause I don't want to waste my #*!%ing time watching what could be a extremely S#&$ video i got better things to watch on youtube, don't have alot free time between 2 jobs so i kinda want to not waste my time. 

Think ill just flag the vid cause this discussion over some rando vid is getting ridiculous, one review isn't going to change the game overall. Warframe does need changes but why let some rando dude on youtube speak for you? 

So you refuse to watch the video, but still want to complain about the video and people talking about the video? 

 

 

You know you don't actually have to read this thread right? You can just you know...scroll past it?

[PublikDomain]

9 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

I'm not pretending issues don't exist. I'm pointing out that issues raised, particularly in the videos of a player who has less than a few weeks of playtime, aren't the "dire" issues that y'all are making them out to be.

...

I'm NOT saying there isn't room for improvement.  Certainly, there is.... but that doesn't mean every complaint brought up is objectively valid.

If you want some feedback about the early experience, then who else would you want to listen to than "a player who has less than a few weeks playtime"? That's literally the best kind of player to get feedback from for this segment because they see and experience all of the problems veterans have gotten used to and hand-wave away.

And every complaint is objectively valid. It doesn't matter what it is. If someone says "the game is too easy" or "the game is too hard" or "I don't understand this" or "it's too grindy", then that's what the game is to that person. If someone says "I don't understand this part" then they don't understand that part. Not sharing a complaint doesn't somehow make it invalid.

The new player experience could use a lot of improvement. You seem to agree. From what I've experienced over the past week, the game does not explain its mechanics well. The modding screen's functions are not clear. More work needs to be done keeping players on a progression path. The story leading up to TSD does not connect together. The weapon balance is awful. We can argue about whether improving these issues is or isn't worth it, but considering that DE's about to push into a brand new, untapped market with their mobile release... I think it's pretty hard to argue that further improving the NPE wouldn't be valuable.

9 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You act like Warframe is a dumpster fire,

9 hours ago, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

You keep insisting I "feel" a certain way, when that isn't what I've said at ALL.  

How ironic.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

13 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

No, just a modicum of self-awareness and basic human empathy. I'm certainly the type to go out of my way to make something work, even if it's not worth it, and that's what let me stick through the rough learning curve. Doesn't mean anyone else should have to go through that trouble in the future if it can be avoided, especially if it brings DE more paying customers.

I simply try to have more faith in the ability of human beings. We left the cave a long time ago, and 12 year olds are better with tech now than the 30 year olds.

What usually happens is people get excited to play the game, and try to move forward at such a rapid pace, they're ignoring any tutorials along the way. Any tutorial won't matter if it's gonna be ignored anyway. 

I've seen maybe 2 or 3 people actually point out the flaw in players, while everyone else avoids it and pretends players don't make mistakes. 

You have players that can't even hover over an icon to see what resources are dropped....people complained there's no update info in game, even though it already was, then another update section was added on top of that.

People that don't even have the patience to play an online games or wait for crafting timers are just waiting for a bunch of tutorials to read? They aren't even reading what's currently in the game.

But I get it: even if one new player decides to stick with the game after a massive tutorial overhaul that once again postpones the duviri paradox, it's worth it to make the game grow? Sure. 

[mrEkli]

Is discovering systems even a part of the gameplay experience? I mean, a part of it should be teaching some players some things but mechanics learned as much more valuable and personal.

[Aldain]

58 minutes ago, (NSW)mrEkli said:

Is discovering systems even a part of the gameplay experience?

Depends on how integral and common they are to the core gameplay.

Discovering wonky math like how "Bane of X" mods are stronger than they look at a glance however, isn't imo.

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

He doesn't have power over anything. All he did was shine a light on a problem that Warframe has had for years. The lack of anything resembling an explanation or direction beyond the initial tutorial and maybe a brief paragraph here and there. The game does not do a good job explaining itself to new and returning players. 

 

And yes as you brilliantly pointed out it is "just a video game", but we are on the forum of that video game. We are in the discussion section of that video game. So of course people are going to want to talk about it and discuss it. I'm really sure why you are surprised by that. 

This YouTube talking head has obviously gotten several posters here 'worked up' form my POV, so yes, he has that power over them, they gave it to him.

My point has nothing to do with the fact the video game is being discussed, it's the fact that many of the posters here are taking this discussion about a video game seriously to the degree they are at each others throats over a Subjective Opinion on on Art, because they allowed an Art Critic to get them riled up over it.

The Art Critic is causing mayhem over what is essentially nothing more than a design decision made by a game company on how they choose to present the game mechanics to the degree people think the game 'is on fire bad' simply because those players are not told what they have chosen as 'critical information'.

I have seen this same topic go in circles for decades on games like this.

It is all subjective personal opinions and nothing more, yet we have posters and YouTube talking heads proclaiming what they 'feel' is 'fact'.

I think it's hilarious and sad that people allow themselves to be manipulated by these talking heads.

I am surprised by none of it, the hamster wheel keeps on turning.

I think it's fascinating, honesty, that so many people never bother to understand they are running around in circles over subjective opinions they are trying to sell as facts.

[(PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk]

11 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

This YouTube talking head has obviously gotten several posters here 'worked up' form my POV, so yes, he has that power over them, they gave it to him.

My point has nothing to do with the fact the video game is being discussed, it's the fact that many of the posters here are taking this discussion about a video game seriously to the degree they are at each others throats over a Subjective Opinion on on Art, because they allowed an Art Critic to get them riled up over it.

The Art Critic is causing mayhem over what is essentially nothing more than a design decision made by a game company on how they choose to present the game mechanics to the degree people think the game 'is on fire bad' simply because those players are not told what they have chosen as 'critical information'.

I have seen this same topic go in circles for decades on games like this.

It is all subjective personal opinions and nothing more, yet we have posters and YouTube talking heads proclaiming what they 'feel' is 'fact'.

I think it's hilarious and sad that people allow themselves to be manipulated by these talking heads.

I am surprised by none of it, the hamster wheel keeps on turning.

I think it's fascinating, honesty, that so many people never bother to understand they are running around in circles over subjective opinions they are trying to sell as facts.

Not having a comprehensive tutorial in your game is not "art" or subjective opinion. 

 

That the problem exists is a fact though. That cannot be denied. You can either be okay with it existing or not okay with it with it existing. But it has been one of the larger issues for Warframe for years and years now.  

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

If you want some feedback about the early experience, then who else would you want to listen to than "a player who has less than a few weeks playtime"? That's literally the best kind of player to get feedback from for this segment because they see and experience all of the problems veterans have gotten used to and hand-wave away

But that only applies to the FIRST video (which was fine).. the other 2 are SPECULATION on his part, based on hearsay from others that he's heard ABOUT Warframe, but not his personal experiences (unless he's a time traveler, and can somehow objectively speak on ALL of a game he's only played a portion of).

 

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

And every complaint is objectively valid. It doesn't matter what it is. If someone says "the game is too easy" or "the game is too hard" or "I don't understand this" or "it's too grindy", then that's what the game is to that person

If it's an opinion based only on that person's point-of-view/experience, it's a SUBJECTIVE experience, not objective.

 

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The new player experience could use a lot of improvement. You seem to agree. From what I've experienced over the past week, the game does not explain its mechanics well. The modding screen's functions are not clear. More work needs to be done keeping players on a progression path. The story leading up to TSD does not connect together. The weapon balance is awful. We can argue about whether improving these issues is or isn't worth it, but considering that DE's about to push into a brand new, untapped market with their mobile release... I think it's pretty hard to argue that further improving the NPE wouldn't be valuable.

I DO agree that the NPE needs work... I don't necessarily agree on the specifics, but that's another post pending.  The point here was NOT to discount JSH's "new player experience".. it was pointing out that what came AFTER, his assumptions about the OVERALL game, including later game, without having experienced any of it yet, was just that... assumptions.

The game is full of things that could be improved.  NO game is "perfect", ever.  but there are only so many hours in a day, and so many developers working at DE at any given time... right now, their focus is on finishing the main questline... something that has been requested of them for YEARS now...  when that's out of the way, I've no doubt they have plans (some likely already being worked on) to polish up the NPE. 

The two aren't mutually exclusive, either...  

But we, the players, are not the board of investors, nor are we staff at DE.  They do not owe us a minute-to-minute update on all projects in the works.  They could be working out ideas surrounding NPE right NOW and just haven't told us because...well.. we don't need to know.

When it's a thing, they'll tell us...  Otherwise, save it for the FEEDBACK section. :/ 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

How ironic

That isn't "irony".

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

It is all subjective personal opinions and nothing more, yet we have posters and YouTube talking heads proclaiming what they 'feel' is 'fact'

THIS ^^^^

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

Not having a comprehensive tutorial in your game is not "art" or subjective opinion. 

 

That the problem exists is a fact though. That cannot be denied. You can either be okay with it existing or not okay with it with it existing. But it has been one of the larger issues for Warframe for years and years now.  

JOSH HAYES LITERALLY SAYS in his FIRST video "..and this is a GREAT hidden tutorial!  This is a hidden tutorial done right!" (c. ~5:30 into video)  He literally praises the tutorial of the game.

At 9:00, he, again, praises the way the game guides you through segment installations in the TUTORIAL of the beginning of the game.

So, if this topic is about Josh Hayes' opinion, then how do you conclude that it is "tutorial bad"?  

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Coyote_x_Starrk said:

Not having a comprehensive tutorial in your game is not "art" or subjective opinion. 

 

That the problem exists is a fact though. That cannot be denied. You can either be okay with it existing or not okay with it with it existing. But it has been one of the larger issues for Warframe for years and years now.  

It's only a problem if one chooses to see it that way, IMO, it's simply a design choice.

DE has gone back and refined the NPE, they have decided they would like to present a different NPE.

Again, just what they chose to do with their resources.

None of this is a 'problem', it is simply what the creators chose to do, unless one chooses to see the world in such rigid terms.

I don't.