How to Break Meta Statistic Ideas?

[kwlingo]

Feel free to add your idea.

I was in regional chat and we happen to talk about cool downs on any weapon or frame being used too much/ have taken too much damage. The more damage or use equates to the weaker each hit or ability is affected. In order to recover, implement a recovery time based on the amount of  lost void energy attached to each. Thus, this may help the implementation of rotating frames and weapon usage. It's not perfect but would be nice to see a more diverse selection of frames and weapons being used other than only the top 5 for each category.

<3

[quxier]

7 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Feel free to add your idea.

I was in regional chat and we happen to talk about cool downs on any weapon or frame being used too much/ have taken too much damage. The more damage or use equates to the weaker each hit or ability is affected. In order to recover, implement a recovery time based on the amount of  lost void energy attached to each. Thus, this may help the implementation of rotating frames and weapon usage. It's not perfect but would be nice to see a more diverse selection of frames and weapons being used other than only the top 5 for each category.

<3

:<

 

This doesn't fix the core problem of it, in my opinion. So you introduce cooldowns (or what you described) on weapons. Ok. What people will do? People will pick another weapons that, for example, deals huge damage in one shoot. This will allow them to wait between "cooldowns".

Till enemies will have 21373495735 HP/Armor/something then weapons will need something like this as well.

[kwlingo]

2 minutes ago, quxier said:

:<

 

This doesn't fix the core problem of it, in my opinion. So you introduce cooldowns (or what you described) on weapons. Ok. What people will do? People will pick another weapons that, for example, deals huge damage in one shoot. This will allow them to wait between "cooldowns".

Till enemies will have 21373495735 HP/Armor/something then weapons will need something like this as well.

Both weapons and frames. The more in use not damage dealt.

[Loza03]

There's no one quick-fix solution like 'just add cooldowns', as quxier so clearly demonstrates. As-is, people will just switch between two OP weapons. So whilst the current issue isn't necessarily bad, it's individually flawed because the issues run deeper. After all, weapons are still power crept to hell - even though ammo management being somewhat whack is one part of it, it's not the only part of it. And weapon power creep is whack, but enemy power creep is also broken, and fixing weapon power creep would therefore require fixing enemy power creep.

[Joezone619]

Dont use them?

Almost every weapon is able to 1 shot almost every enemy with how easy the game is now.

[Leqesai]

Just throwing this in here but the first step to fixing the game is ditching the antiquated armor system they use for the Grineer. 

Once they fix how armor works then balancing the weapons will be much easier. As it stands weapons are balanced completely around the variable damage reduction from armor. Ditch this stupid mechanic and real discussions of balance can take place. 

Notice no one ever discusses buffing/nerfing weapons used against any faction but Grineer? Corpus and Infested can be taken down with a much wider range of weapons, even in Steel Path. Grineer are the problem and the issue specifically is variable damage reduction. DE should recognize this problem and fix it instead of bandaid after bandaid after bandaid with their weapon balance passes.

This could have been fixed when they did the armor adjustment by simply setting all armor values to a static number (no longer scaling with level) and/or simply making the damage resistance of enemies inconsistent with the damage resistance of players (players have increased damage reduction based on armor but enemies do not). Instead things have gone from bad to worse. Grineer are more meta than ever before and DE just can't take the hint...

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Don't use the meta? This is an individuals problem and not something that needs to be fixed for everyone. 

Don't like doing damage? Stop shooting for 2 seconds then resume shooting. Voila.

[quxier]

36 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

Both weapons and frames. The more in use not damage dealt.

I don't mean how you get cooldowns but how people would deal with cooldowns.

[KitMeHarder]

Get outta here with that BS moba thought process. What happens to players already using off-meta items, are you going to punish them?

Not to mention that you're punishing people just for having fun in a casual game. IMO this idea is so tone deaf it doesn't even warrant a discussion.

 

If there are true meta-slaves out there, I don't need to be a martyr for them to experiment with the game.

[kwlingo]

1 hour ago, KitMeHarder said:

IMO this idea is so tone deaf it doesn't even warrant a discussion.

And yet this has been a discussion for years, "balancing metas." lol

[BRZZAFK]

Why not turn on it's head. Player get additional reward for using different warframe that have not been use before. Like in Hades.

[ShortCat]

Add something like a "useability rating" to gear aka "Ignis Wraith, a powerful weapon for blind Tenno who have no ability to aim or manage ammunition". Or "Kronen Prime, we throgh so much stats at the enemy that the game cannot keep up". Ther is nothig better than the game itself mocking players for their inability.

On a more serious note, the issue is a deep one. If you want diverse arsenal, you have to design gear as well as enemies with game mechanics in mind. Like, weapons are not allowed to have recoil becasue the playerbase will cry out on its "bad useability". And even before that, DE would have to actually fix recoil simulation in the first place.

[bnuy]

19 hours ago, kwlingo said:

Feel free to add your idea.

I was in regional chat and we happen to talk about cool downs on any weapon or frame being used too much/ have taken too much damage. The more damage or use equates to the weaker each hit or ability is affected. In order to recover, implement a recovery time based on the amount of  lost void energy attached to each. Thus, this may help the implementation of rotating frames and weapon usage. It's not perfect but would be nice to see a more diverse selection of frames and weapons being used other than only the top 5 for each category.

<3

Cooldowns do not belong in Warframe.
The damage and balance systems need an overhaul for the meta to shift into a healthier spot. The meta is only unhealthy due to core systemic balance issues like armour scaling, and the status proc power discrepancy. Slash and Toxin bypassing shields and armour are also other main offenders of the game's balance.

We will not have a proper, healthy meta, until the armour scaling is addressed, slash is made to no longer bypass as well as toxin, and status procs are properly balanced across the board. I shill my post a fair bit, but if you want to spend a bunch of time reading a massive balance overhaul thesis then here's my take.

 

[KitMeHarder]

20 hours ago, kwlingo said:

And yet this has been a discussion for years, "balancing metas." lol

That's what "tone deaf" means. You're talking about a topic, but you're so out of touch with it that the way you brought it up isn't even worth discourse.

[kwlingo]

On 2021-05-31 at 1:35 PM, KitMeHarder said:

That's what "tone deaf" means. You're talking about a topic, but you're so out of touch with it that the way you brought it up isn't even worth discourse.

And yet "you are here," which makes it all worth it. lol

I love how people's actions speak louder than words. :)

[Steel_Rook]

On 2021-05-30 at 8:50 PM, kwlingo said:

I was in regional chat and we happen to talk about cool downs on any weapon or frame being used too much/ have taken too much damage. The more damage or use equates to the weaker each hit or ability is affected. In order to recover, implement a recovery time based on the amount of  lost void energy attached to each. Thus, this may help the implementation of rotating frames and weapon usage. It's not perfect but would be nice to see a more diverse selection of frames and weapons being used other than only the top 5 for each category.

Err... No, thank you. I don't like saying this typically, but this is an awful idea. Forcing diversity by taking peoples items away doesn't work and never has. All you're going to accomplish is make people buy multiple copies of the same item so they can rotate between them. At worse, you're going to encourage people to play for an hour and log out of the game to wait out the lockout. This is what happens in World of Tanks. "Oh, I died early in two games in a row? Well, that's all the tanks I wanted to play. Guess I'll go have lunch." If the only way to recover this penalty is to play with other items and you tie the penalty between all copies of an item (and presumably all versions of it, Primed/Vandal/Wraith/Kuva), then all you're doing is forcing a rotation meta. Which set of items is best to rotate between for maximum performance. Plus, you KNOW DE will start selling timer skips, as well.

Mobile game "stamina" systems have no place in modern video games. Blocking players from using their favourite items doesn't encourage variety. It encourages resentment. Especially considering many of these items are things people have paid real money for. If you want to address "the meta," start by addressing the game's state of balance. Metas develop because certain builds are DRASTICALLY more powerful than all others, to the point where players feel dumb for not using them. Preventing players from using these builds some of the time is a non-starter.

[(XBOX)Calliber]

On 2021-05-31 at 3:03 AM, BRZZAFK said:

Why not turn on it's head. Player get additional reward for using different warframe that have not been use before. Like in Hades.

This actually isn't a bad idea, resource and affinity accumulation getting increased based on how the MR30 frame or weapon ranks in their codex in regards to usage relative to what you have in your inventory (obviously weapons/frames you don't own won't count).  It wouldn't really change anything gameplay-wise but might give you some incentive to use other items.  

EDIT: Could even give the relic drop table a little boost on the rare end (like 1% or something small)

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

I remember playing Destiny PvP

they had a rotating meta.

each season Bungie would rebalance all the guns. This time scout rifles are top, then auto rifles, then burst rifles, etc. it kept changing

made so many people mad. Part of why I quit.