Yareli / Pre-release feedback + Initial thoughts

[selig_fay]

18 hours ago, (PSN)Vexx757 said:

This, this right here is why I don`t like the helminth system.

Helminth is not guilty of being bad at trying to fix the game's design. xD It would be much better if warframes were just skins)

[Kegnor97]

En 31/5/2021 a las 11:23, Tsoe dijo:

talking about subsum did they say wich one will be subsumable?

Not in devstream, but the next day they said it would be aquablades

[Venus-Venera]

vor 33 Minuten schrieb selig_fay:

Helminth is not guilty of being bad at trying to fix the game's design. xD It would be much better if warframes were just skins)

but then someone would only play 1-3 builds. and one build would be overpovered until it no longer works.
actually it's good as it is now, then everyone can find something for themselves and is happy about different effects, skins and stats.

[selig_fay]

11 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

but then someone would only play 1-3 builds. and one build would be overpovered until it no longer works.

Well, not much would have changed here.

12 minutes ago, Battle.Mage said:

actually it's good as it is now, then everyone can find something for themselves and is happy about different effects, skins and stats.

Yep. Helminth completely suits me now. Everything else, in theory, should be solved by augments. And it would be great if the augment pack was released instead of every second new frame. But. 

In short, I condemn those who will use helmith on k-drive.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

With the reveal of Yareli, I thought I would put my 2 cents in on her ability kit before release. I know I have not played Yareli yet but I still wanted to discuss what could be added to give her abilities more depth as they look a bit shallow but still filled with a lot of potential.

Design: I like the design. Though the in-game model is not as vibrant as the artwork that gave us our first look at Yareli in the previous Dev-stream. Yareli’s skirt is also a bit more poofy compared to the art work or it could be that the longer skirt parts have been really shorten which is a shame as they looked really cool. I prefer the Concept art to be honest way more than the in game model right now.

Lore wise: I think that the design fits Warframe as I believe that when a host is infected with the virus that turns their body into a warframe, the abilities and design of the frame are made based on the host’s skills, talents, clothing, personality, age, biology, etc. So, for me, the design is not out of place here.

Animations sets: I am mixed on this. They are well done but I find that the heart shape gesture and the water hearts are a bit much. I was expecting her animations to have more of a young kid who is naïve but is also a bit sassy or something like that. They have grown on me though so no big deal. (I like the one with the board)

 

Passive: I like the critical bonus but I think it should also apply to melee and primary as well.

Sea Snares: I like it but have some ideas to add to it. Hold ability to have snares orbit around Yareli, absorbing oncoming damage and storing it before shooting out at nearby targets or the targets Yareli is aiming at.

https://i.imgur.com/TjayOdf.mp4 (visual example to help visualize my idea)

Additionally, hold ability and press fire to fling an orb at a target like Sephiroth’s shadow flare. Firing at the enemy with these orbs orbiting them increases the damage stored in the snares. The snares, after 2 rotations, will then home in on the enemy and heavily damage them (the damage is boosted based on damage absorbed by snares. Great for focusing single targets). Can use the snares that orbit Yareli. Can stack five snares on one target.

https://i.imgur.com/IWhikYR.mp4 (visual example to help demonstrate my idea)

 

Merulina: As it stands, while good on paper, Yareli’s mount looks pretty clunky and will need some custom controls to allow this “’K-Drive” to work smoothly in tight level designs.

While using the mount, if it is approaching a raised flooring or obstacle (things that usually causes a frame to fly off a k-drive) the mount will automatically raise up to avoid the obstacles on the ground. Visually, since she is “surfing” on her mount, Yareli would have a wave under the mount that would increase in height to raise her over an obstacle and then lower back down once over the obstacle/raised terrain. The mount should also be allowed to clip through small details (like thin white tree branches on void tile sets) to avoid getting stuck or flung off due to small objects.

Tap the sprint button to toggle an exclusive mode that will allow Yareli to control her mount like an arch-wing: moving the camera will move the mount forwards, leftwards, rightwards, upwards and backwards at a speed between normal k-drive speed and fast k-drive speed. Camera would still be over the shoulder instead of directly behind her.

She would basically be flying with her board similar to what someone would see with the Marvel character “Silver Surfer” or Pixar’s The Incredibles “Frozone”. Visually, Yareli’s mount will be riding on water at all time while leaving a road/trail behind it which can damage enemies that walk into it.

https://i.imgur.com/dhHXMnO.mp4 (Frozone GIF)

Hold the crouch button while moving to drift around on the mount.

Hold sprint will toggle the usual k-drive speed boost.

Yareli’s mount should also allow her to use her melee weapon (stationary combos or basic attacks only) along with her primary weapon.

Additionally, It would be great if by holding the ability button, Merulina becomes a channeled ability where performing tricks/maneuvers will perform different types of attacks (drifting splashes enemies, down slam cause AOE knock back from waves, Tidal wave from behind, spin to make a whirlpool, Etc..)

 

 

Aqua Blades: I am a bit underwhelmed with the twin water glaives being just a blender attack. I think it should have more functions that will give it ranged attack options (since Yareli is looking to be a caster frame). Yareli would use the throwing glaive animations for the ranged attacks.

Maybe have the Aqua Blades scale off of melee weapon equipped as well?

Hold ability to charge and throw the Aqua Blade Blender to act as a giant glaive throw that shred and ricochets off of enemies. Hold the aim button to control the giant blender similar to Sevagoth’s Reap ability.

https://i.imgur.com/aIAdKlM.mp4 (demonstrates throwing Aqua Blades as a giant glaive idea)

Hold ability and press the fire button to shoot out individual glaives that ricochet and damage enemies hit by these aqua glaives. These glaives are extra bouncy and ricochet a lot more compared to the average glaive (bounce number scale off strength?). Can throw multiple glaives out at once.

Hold ability and press heavy attack/secondary fire to throw aqua glaives that do not ricochet but instead shreds into the enemy struck by said glaive dealing heavy damage. Can have multiple heavy glaives out.

https://i.imgur.com/D23tFKM.mp4 (visualize the spinning sword as a heavy glaive throw)

Wishful thinking: It would be an awesome if Yareli had dual Glaives as a signature weapon that would float around her like in her artwork shown off last devstream.

 

Cyclone Strike: I think it is fine but needs a change. Instead of sending enemies flying at the end, the tides from the cyclone drags them straight down to the ground to finish off enemies still breathing. This way you don’t have to worry about trying to find the enemies sent flying. Would be cool if you could somehow interact with the cyclone with Yareli’s mount.

 

Let me know what you think about my ideas. Try to be open with my post. I want to try having a discussion on what is good, bad or needs improvements. Thank you.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

Aaaaannnddd my post got merged....... great.

[selig_fay]

Just now, (XBOX)WafflyLearner89 said:

Aaaaannnddd my post got merged....... great.

Welcome to the club.

[(XBOX)WafflyLearner89]

Just now, selig_fay said:

Welcome to the club.

I put alot of time and effort into making my post. Now it is LESS likley to get feedback as a comment than it would have as a seperate post

[PsiWarp]

Although the abilities themselves feel basic for now, I'd like to think about Yareli's potential synergies:

Sea Snares + Aquablades = Aquablades pop a bubble on a snared enemy each time it is hit, dealing Gas damage and proc in an AoE; Gas damage is equal to the sum of the Impact damage per second the snared enemy is currently taking (so the longer the snare is in effect, the more damage the Gas deals).

Sea Snares + Cyclone Strike = If at least 1 enemy is snared and drawn in by the cyclone, other enemies in the cyclone will have Sea Snares applied to them.

Aquablades + Cyclone Strike = Aquablades that hit the cyclone model will deal their damage to all enemies drawn into the cyclone.

[Dodens]

While I won't play her because I don't like K-drive as is, I didn't pick this game up thinking it was Pro Skater (With the added bonus of discombobulation and hives)

My main gripe is with her aesthetic, mostly in the department of animation and general personality. I felt a sharp pain in my back when Pablo mentioned she'd be "Kawaii" and lo and behold, we see her and she's drawing hearts in water and hopping around like she's just been told she got a gold star on her ABCs because that's about the age group I'd expect to bounce like that. It's strange. It's like the art style is based off of what Manga the employee of the month happened to be reading, though with Sevagoth that shouldn't be too much of a shock anymore.

As a side note though, my boi Hydroid's been done dirty. Get a water frame and he's still begging for that rework with his meek little tentacles n' undergoes a metamorphosis into a literal puddle of actual tears when he finds out it's not coming.

[Maka.Bones]

Just that the title says. 

 

Don't get me wrong, it seems fun and great for a K-drive ability.... But there's a lot of similarities between that ability, and World on Fire.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, what I'm worried about here is that DE will end up nerfing it. That's what I meant by "becoming a repeat of WoF"

[selig_fay]

I think the radius will be too small, so you'll have to use k-drive mobility to use them. Roughly speaking, it will probably be more like Gara 2 than old Ember 4.

[Maka.Bones]

Also about her K-Drive pet friend:

A lot of the K-drive haters might enjoy her more, if the handling was better than normal k-drives. Like the drift/floating they normally have, should be minimized in Yareli unless they want to slide (Left Ctrl). 

Additionally, K-drives have VERY LIMITED movement while In the air. It would really help to improve the experience if Yareli has more freedom and fluidity while In the air/jumping while riding her exalted K-drive. It would make sense If her friend is a sentient creature that can float. 

Adding a way for her to move & steer while crouched down, is probably important since she might be unable to go through many doors/holes otherwise. That will likely make her feel even more cumbersome to pilot.

And finally, I'm just gonna quote Brozime on this one: it would likely make her feel more fluid if she could go through items with "soft line of sight" (i think that's what he called it?). Basically items that we can still shoot across, or melee attack over. I imagine it would feel frustrating to bump into things constantly. 

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

I think the radius will be too small, so you'll have to use k-drive mobility to use them. Roughly speaking, it will probably be more like Gara 2 than old Ember 4.

Ember's WoF radius was originally about that big. We just modded it until it got about 30m+ because it was an easy way to knock down enemies, and get a ground finisher strike with a melee... Well that's what I did, and I did still need to move around to use it. 

 

(Yareli's 3 seems like 12-14m to me)

 

What's to say that people won't add 200%+ range, 200+ power str, and just spam her 3 and 4 over and over? And then DE is gonna have to think about nerfing it, because it gets used too much/abused, or whatever 

 

[selig_fay]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Ember's WoF radius was originally about that big. We just modded it until it got about 30m+ because it was an easy way to knock down enemies, and get a finisher strike with a melee.

The Gara 2 can be modified up to 7 meters, so don't worry. We don't even know if these blades can be modified in radius at all, but they don't look like anything big. In fact, it looks like a melee on k-drive.

Well, in addition to Ember, there are also frames that can kill far away, like Equinox, Hildryn, Saryn, Octavia.

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

The Gara 2 can be modified up to 7 meters, so don't worry. We don't even know if these blades can be modified in radius at all, but they don't look like anything big. In fact, it looks like a melee on k-drive.

Well, in addition to Ember, there are also frames that can kill far away, like Equinox, Hildryn, Saryn, Octavia.

Equinox needs to be active, sarin's needs to be actively used, Octavia rarely gets used, and idk much about Hildryn but I rarely see her getting used. 

Equi and Saryn aren't "set and forget" abilities, like DE used to call Ember's WoF. (Also, idk why DE hates the idea of an ability we can just toggle on and keep it on, if we've specifically modded our warframes for that specific purpose... Isn't that part of player gameplay and creativity?)

 

However none of those abilities work like WoF or like Yareli's 3. (You turn it on, and forget it). And sure all of those have large AoE, but they didn't get nerfed... Ember's did.

 

And 7m (garaa) after mods, isn't the same as 12m without mods (Yareli). Not to mention that Yareli's 3 will deal slash damage, which will have slash procs. Ember's 4 did fire damage before fire was buffed. 

 

You can try to defend it all you want, but lying to yourself about the similarities won't stop DE from nerfing it later down the road, if it becomes overly used. I'd prefer to avoid that, considering she's quickly becoming a crowd favorite. 

[selig_fay]

3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

However none of those abilities work like WoF or like Yareli's 3. (You turn it on, and forget it). And sure all of those have large AoE, but they didn't get nerfed... Ember's did.

We're talking about WoF. This thing didn't really kill at high levels. So, I turn on Hildryn 3 or Equinox 4 and forget about the existence of low-level enemies.

3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

And 7m (garaa) after mods, isn't the same as 12m without mods (Yareli). Not to mention that Yareli's 3 will deal slash damage, which will have slash procs. Ember's 4 did fire damage before fire was buffed.

Is it really 12 meters? I would give them 4 meters and that would be enough. But, they must be strong with such a small radius.

[Maka.Bones]

Granted, I do agree that it's probably less of a risk if the radius isn't very big. But how much would that impact the usability/practicality of it? For Garaa it also serves as her defense, along with offense. Yareli's won't have defense tho, just offense (though her K-Drive should give her some defense, based on what DE has said so far)

 

But that's still not to say that it shouldn't raise a flag for concern, as we've seen so far. 

[Maka.Bones]

13 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

We're talking about WoF. This thing didn't really kill at high levels. So, I turn on Hildryn 3 or Equinox 4 and forget about the existence of low-level enemies.

Yeah I know, I don't understand why WoF got nerfed either since it only killed low levels or provided CC at higher levels.... And yet it did get "changed" (DE didn't call it a nerf, but a lot of players hated it Post-Change)

 

All I'm sayin' is that Yareli's 3 raises some concerns. I don't want it nerfed myself or changed entirely or anything. I just think DE should be careful of releasing something they'll just have to nerf quickly after release (like they did for Nidus, Saryn's buff, and Kuva Bramma)

[Maka.Bones]

If they really are 4-8m, but STRONG (like garaa's 2) i probably wouldn't see too many players complain about it, so that would at least remove a potential reason for nerfing it. 

 

Idk about DE nerfing it due to overuse though... That's something they'd know internally. Or at least something they should consider it before her release. (Consider how balanced/useful all her abilities are, in regards to each-other)

[Maka.Bones]

21 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Is it really 12 meters? I would give them 4 meters and that would be enough. But, they must be strong with such a small radius.

In the clip of Rebecca using her, the Hydro-Blades almost covered the entire hallway. (They were in an orokin grand-hall) 

So to me they seemed at least 10m, from her towards the very edge of the ability. Though I could be wrong about my impression of it, and it might be much smaller. It might've seemed bigger, simply because Yareli was higher off the ground. Either way I'm sure many players will see if they can extend the range & power as much as possible, and enjoy the "true damage" slash procs from her ability. I know that's what I'd want to do, and that's also why I'm getting flashbacks. 

 

Btw sorry for all my scattered comments/replies. I'm on mobile and it's not being as responsive/organized as PC

[PsiWarp]

Dev build Aquablades looked to be less than 3 meters though (unmodded). If anything was 10 meters, it was her Cyclone Strike's suction radius.

Her 3 is Helminth Subsumed too. If it was problematic it would deal less damage or get reduced range, but I don't see that happening.

[XAN3MK]

Funny enough, its about the only ability in Yareli's that looks vaguely interesting assuming it can be modded to 25-30m of range and does considerably amount of damage (even better if it becomes the Helminth ability). Seriously, I feel like Yareli's kit is DoA, but that's a different concern.

As for World on Fire, there was never anything wrong with it, it was only issue for people, both at DE and among the playebase who don't play relevant content. Even after Ember's rework, nothing has really changed, we still mod her for efficient spamming of her 4 to clear the map. Yeah, it's more "active", in that it requires constant pressing of a button for the exact same outcome.

[selig_fay]

19 minutes ago, XAN3MK said:

As for World on Fire, there was never anything wrong with it, it was only issue for people, both at DE and among the playebase who don't play relevant content. Even after Ember's rework, nothing has really changed, we still mod her for efficient spamming of her 4 to clear the map. Yeah, it's more "active", in that it requires constant pressing of a button for the exact same outcome.

I think Gauss 3 is better in this regard, as it hits through walls.)

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

The water discs that spin around her K-drive?   Nah thats not gonna nuke maps.  

I dont know why peeps are bringing up Gara,  Xaku is way more range.