Relic System Sucks And It's Boring

[bad4youLT]

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Because the odds are so low that even at max refinement your chances of getting a rare part are 10%.

But you see the gold bar underneath expand a little thinking that you have decent chance of getting what you want.

It is an illusion.

 

10% if you're opening relic by your self , its 34.39% then its 4 radiant relics 

Also you just admitted being wrong 

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

No not only that. With 1 void key a squad of 4 could get a prime part. 

Now everybody has to farm relics of their own. Meaning the amount of relics per part you want is many times higher. Add trace farm on top of it and you get yourself a grindier experience. This is not open to debate. 

 

Except this isn't entirely correct .

 1) you don't need or have to refine every relic and I very much doubt you do that

 2) you can get refined relics from ESO , void storms and partially refined relics from endless missions

 3) you don't have to have specific relic to other relic rewards as other player rewards can chosen 

 4) the whole relic sharing mechanic get rids of one of the major problems void key system had , the key leechers .

 5) opening 4 relics takes significantly less time and with better rare drop rate then opening 4 void keys at the time . This makes whole system less grindy despite that it looks on paper at the cost of less reward number per relic count which is 1 to 4 .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Tileset was exclusive, so like I said, at the time it was more rare than any other tileset you've been to a million times. 

 

 

Which is good how ?

Being forced to play less then 5% of entire games content is bad game design by default , were is no argument here to be made .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

With fissures, you are stuck in the very same loop that you've been doing for years(8.5 in my case).

 

 

Except it isn't , void keys and their rewards were tied to specific mission , relics on other hand aren't , if you let say don't interception or mobile defense you're not forced to play those to open relic , you can simple wait for fissure to rotate to other mission type .

This was not possible with void keys .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Like I explained above, Void was an exlusive zone so going there meant you'd get things you normally couldn't get.

 

And primes being exclusive to the void was good how ?

As mentioned above players were forced to play less of the game and that is not good for the game .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

And yeah rare parts are still just as rare because they are based on the same RNG system. I remember doing 60 minute survivals and not getting what I wanted back in the day.

 

Yes , its still RNG but RNG is better then it was , just take a look at Gara Prime set at warframe market , in two weeks its price gone from 200p to 100p .

That is 50% decrease in less then a month , that was never the case with void keys meaning relic system is far better then void keys .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Now I also remember spending an hour or more farming relics and using up each and every one of them and not getting what I wanted.

 

And I have spent 27 runs to get final part for Excalibur , 26 runs to get Nekros and 3 years to get Khora .

Refined and stacked relics aren't going to give you 100% rate .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Incorrect, like I explained above.

You have to farm more relics comapared to keys, and you have to farm traces on top of it for refinement.

 

Il just copy paste that I typed above 

1) you don't need or have to refine every relic and I very much doubt you do that

 2) you can get refined relics from ESO , void storms and partially refined relics from endless missions

 3) you don't have to have specific relic to other relic rewards as other player rewards can chosen 

 4) the whole relic sharing mechanic get rids of one of the major problems void key system had , the key leechers .

 5) opening 4 relics takes significantly less time and with better rare drop rate then opening 4 void keys at the time . This makes whole system less grindy despite that it looks on paper at the cost of less reward number per relic count which is 1 to 4 .

 

21 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Again, with a farmer mentality, you only care about the destination and not the journey.

 

I farm for rewards so I could use them to play something else , I don't farm for sake of farming .

 

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I personally like it a lot. It's incredibly beneficial to newer players as well as quick and gives many opportunities to get good parts on pub matches. You'd be surprised how many vets run rare relics randomly. 

[White_Matter]

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

10% if you're opening relic by your self , its 34.39% then its 4 radiant relics 

Which means there is 2/3 chance you won't get what you want.

Case in point, it took me 8 full squad rad relic runs to get the Gara BP.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Also you just admitted being wrong 

Except I didn't. 

The illusion is the part where the game interface makes you think that refining a relic is a dramatic increase while it isn't which also obsurces the fact that you have to farm additional missions to get the material for refinement.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

1) you don't need or have to refine every relic and I very much doubt you do that

You have to unless you want a common reward. Yes, the in between refinements are also a part of the illusion because they are worthless. It is either intact runs or rads at this point.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 2) you can get refined relics from ESO , void storms and partially refined relics from endless missions

Can you get the refined relics for the latest prime parts ?

If so, what are the drop chances compared to other ways of getting them ?

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 3) you don't have to have specific relic to other relic rewards as other player rewards can chosen 

That is helpful how ? Unless you are joining with randoms, you want something specific and the more players equip the same relic, the higher chances you get.

But yeah you surely can join a random axi run and hope that one person has the relic for  the part you want and it drops.

Want to calcualte the odds of that ? lol.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 4) the whole relic sharing mechanic get rids of one of the major problems void key system had , the key leechers .

Fair enough. Didn't happen to me except a couple of times but yeah that was always a possibility.

Still doesn't have the same weight as being able to get parts without farming any keys.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 5) opening 4 relics takes significantly less time and with better rare drop rate then opening 4 void keys at the time . This makes whole system less grindy despite that it looks on paper at the cost of less reward number per relic count which is 1 to 4 .

Opening 4 relics =/= getting what you want so it doesn't have a bearing on the actual time it takes to reach the objective.

Also this is a domino effect, you can't exclude the time it takes to farming of the keys/relics and the farming of the traces.

I never compared relics to keys directly. I compared the key system to the relic system.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Which is good how ?

Being forced to play less then 5% of entire games content is bad game design by default , were is no argument here to be made .

That's like saying going to a specific dungeon to get specific loot is a bad design decision. 

All successful mmo's would beg to differ.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Except it isn't , void keys and their rewards were tied to specific mission , relics on other hand aren't , if you let say don't interception or mobile defense you're not forced to play those to open relic , you can simple wait for fissure to rotate to other mission type .

This was not possible with void keys .

Not quite. Because there are hourly rotations so unless you want to wait just because you don't like the missions currently available, you will be forced  to go into missions you don't want to play. Happens all the time.

Also I'm sick of playin regular missions eitherway so I couldn't care what type of mission they are. Fissure missions pose no challenge, you just speed run through them.

So the question is, do you really care ?

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 

And primes being exclusive to the void was good how ?

As mentioned above players were forced to play less of the game and that is not good for the game .

Players were forced to play in a different tileset and against a different and more challenging enemy type than they are normally used to.

That's how it is good.

Fissure missions, like I said above, are regular missions. You just speed run through them.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

 

Yes , its still RNG but RNG is better then it was , just take a look at Gara Prime set at warframe market , in two weeks its price gone from 200p to 100p .

That is 50% decrease in less then a month , that was never the case with void keys meaning relic system is far better then void keys .

Could that also be attributed to the growing number of players compared to 5-6 years ago ?  Haven't looked at the statistics, but I'd say so.

 

I also said that the main defenders of the relic system are people who play WF like a job. In other words who just farm. 

They don't care about the journey(mission, gameplay, experience), they want to get to the destination(reward.)

So they don't mind being stuck in a horrible loop of playing the same mission over and over again.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

And I have spent 27 runs to get final part for Excalibur , 26 runs to get Nekros and 3 years to get Khora .

Refined and stacked relics aren't going to give you 100% rate .

That's what I'm saying. It all comes down to RNG and the relic system has more grind to it.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

Il just copy paste that I typed above 

1) you don't need or have to refine every relic and I very much doubt you do that

 2) you can get refined relics from ESO , void storms and partially refined relics from endless missions

 3) you don't have to have specific relic to other relic rewards as other player rewards can chosen 

 4) the whole relic sharing mechanic get rids of one of the major problems void key system had , the key leechers .

 5) opening 4 relics takes significantly less time and with better rare drop rate then opening 4 void keys at the time . This makes whole system less grindy despite that it looks on paper at the cost of less reward number per relic count which is 1 to 4 .

Adressed these above.

7 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

I farm for rewards so I could use them to play something else , I don't farm for sake of farming .

Yeah that is the farmer mentality.

You don't care what you are playing as long as you get the reward.

[bad4youLT]

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Which means there is 2/3 chance you won't get what you want.

Case in point, it took me 8 full squad rad relic runs to get the Gara BP.

 

Math can tell you the probability and likelihood 

It doesn't tell you the future

 

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Except I didn't. 

The illusion is the part where the game interface makes you think that refining a relic is a dramatic increase while it isn't which also obsurces the fact that you have to farm additional missions to get the material for refinement.

 

So to you the difference between 2% and 34.39% isn't "dramatic increase" ? 

 

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

That's like saying going to a specific dungeon to get specific loot is a bad design decision. 

All successful mmo's would beg to differ.

Said mmo's usually have multiple types of dungeons and other things and systems for unique and special rewards .

Warframe at the time had only thing and it drove entire player base to spend their time in it , even Devs themselfs in one of the devstream admitted being bad hence why they "blew up" the void .

 

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Not quite. Because there are hourly rotations so unless you want to wait just because you don't like the missions currently available, you will be forced  to go into missions you don't want to play. Happens all the time.

 

Doesn't change the fact that they rotate and don't stay state static like void keys did .

 

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Could that also be attributed to the growing number of players compared to 5-6 years ago ?  Haven't looked at the statistics, but I'd say so.

According to Steam charts the daily player count is about the same as 5-6 years ago with some fluctuations during peak hours 

 

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

Can you get the refined relics for the latest prime parts ?

If so, what are the drop chances compared to other ways of getting them ?

 

 

yes you can , I got one for Astillas barrel from railjack ( and managed to open it as rare part , must be luck )

As for drop rates unless you look at DE's drop tables I can't really tell , the wiki fuzzy to as its still missing info on radiants , If I to guess that the ones come from skirmishes the rewards rates around at 5% 

 

5 hours ago, White_Matter said:

the in between refinements are also a part of the illusion because they are worthless. It is either intact runs or rads at this point.

 

 

partially refined relics cost less to refine into radiants , that's not useful to you ?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I don't know what's funnier OP, the fact that you think 13 relics is a lot to crack or the fact that it took you 2.5 hours to max your void traces...

[Joezone619]

Its certainly not awful, but its flaws are beginning to get out of hand, and is gonna need a replacement soon

"Yo is that part on Lith B47, or Axi A72?"

i'm willing to bet if you asked this to someone who doesn't know about warframe, they'd think its a phone model or something.

[Ghostcells]

i just hate how it pauses the gameplay when you choose wish it was more dynamic... IDK

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Its certainly not awful, but its flaws are beginning to get out of hand, and is gonna need a replacement soon

"Yo is that part on Lith B47, or Axi A72?"

i'm willing to bet if you asked this to someone who doesn't know about warframe, they'd think its a phone model or something.

The search function makes it easy though. Whether it's through the inventory, the void kiosk in the orbiter, and the link function. 

[quxier]

6 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I don't know what's funnier OP, the fact that you think 13 relics (1) is a lot to crack or the fact that it took you (2) 2.5 hours to max your void traces...

I'm not sure what's funnier:

- that you think that potentially 13 Radiants PER every part (2-3 parts of uncommon/rare) + few runs of common IS ok. That's 40+ runs and sometimes you get a lot of formas so you could probably earn maybe 30 plat for that parts. Where one part might cost much more.

- 2.5 hour is long time. Getting ~15 per simple mission (e.g. 3 minute capture, not counting other times) would yield more than 4 hours.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

I'm not sure what's funnier:

- that you think that potentially 13 Radiants PER every part (2-3 parts of uncommon/rare) + few runs of common IS ok. That's 40+ runs and sometimes you get a lot of formas so you could probably earn maybe 30 plat for that parts. Where one part might cost much more.

- 2.5 hour is long time. Getting ~15 per simple mission (e.g. 3 minute capture, not counting other times) would yield more than 4 hours.

 

Yes I think it's OK in a grinding simulator, that's what type of game it is.

15 per mission? What are you smoking? 3 minutes for a capture? You serious? And if you read he didn't even do capture missions which is even sillier.

[quxier]

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Yes I think it's OK in a grinding simulator, that's what type of game it is.

Then I just disagree with you. I don't think it's ok for player.

 

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

15 per mission? What are you smoking?

I heard RJ gives more traces or something but I don't do RJ.

Normal mission sometimes gives more than 15 sometimes less than 15. However I don't think I've seen more than ~30 without boosters.

3 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

3 minutes for a capture? You serious?

Yes, however my pc isn't very fast so I play solo. I estimated that "3 minutes" would be ok time. And 3 minutes without speed running, taking into account "less frequent spawns", map design etc. You can make it even faster with some nice frame or weapon.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

26 minutes ago, quxier said:

Then I just disagree with you. I don't think it's ok for player.

 

I heard RJ gives more traces or something but I don't do RJ.

Normal mission sometimes gives more than 15 sometimes less than 15. However I don't think I've seen more than ~30 without boosters.

Yes, however my pc isn't very fast so I play solo. I estimated that "3 minutes" would be ok time. And 3 minutes without speed running, taking into account "less frequent spawns", map design etc. You can make it even faster with some nice frame or weapon.

 

without booster it often gives up to 30 traces per mission, your claim of only 15 is rubbish. And with a booster it's up to 60 per mission. 

Solo has nothing to do with it, solo is BETTER. Sorry but no, 3 minutes for a capture mission is slow as hell. I can only imagine you stopped to order some takeaway in order to take that long. If' I'm speedrunning it's about 40 seconds or so on average, if I'm doing it casually it's about 1 minute.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

without booster it often gives up to 30 traces per mission, your claim of only 15 is rubbish. And with a booster it's up to 60 per mission. 

I won't run X number of runs and I won't either ask the same from you.

From my experience it's very random but I rarely get ~30. I OFTEN get number between ~10 to ~25. On average I get something around 15 per mission.

Even same mission, same gear, same radiant relic give different result (~40 vs 50-55).

 

[mrpyro12345678]

I still see people who adore the times Void Keys were still there...
From what I saw recently it's no longer a popular opinion-

[Teridax68]

I personally don't think relic quality should even exist. When DE switched Prime part farming from a key system to the relic system, they seriously overdid it on the layers of grind, and the result is a farming process that is not only tedious, but needlessly conducive to splitting the playerbase: different groups may want to run the same relic, but either at Intact or Radiant quality simply because those max out the chances of getting different tiers of items. The intermediary tiers are suboptimal, and the trace system means some players find themselves in the irritating situation where they still have to grind more, despite having the relic they need, just to get the resource needed to grind the next step. Simply eliminating quality and setting the drop rates to Radiant level would cut out a portion of the grind and allow players to consistently group up for the same relic, regardless of which tier of item they're looking for.

[Prexades]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

I personally don't think relic quality should even exist. When DE switched Prime part farming from a key system to the relic system, they seriously overdid it on the layers of grind, and the result is a farming process that is not only tedious, but needlessly conducive to splitting the playerbase: different groups may want to run the same relic, but either at Intact or Radiant quality simply because those max out the chances of getting different tiers of items. The intermediary tiers are suboptimal, and the trace system means some players find themselves in the irritating situation where they still have to grind more, despite having the relic they need, just to get the resource needed to grind the next step. Simply eliminating quality and setting the drop rates to Radiant level would cut out a portion of the grind and allow players to consistently group up for the same relic, regardless of which tier of item they're looking for.

That is certainly one opinion, not one even worth considering, but it is an opinion. People did long survival runs back in the day not because they were so much fun, but because it was their best shot at getting some rare void key item. The relic system is way more convenient, as I can easily acquire everything from a new prime release within a week. Yes, there are cases when I have to use a high number of radiant relics, but also cases when I get lucky in the first try with a radshare relic team.

[Teridax68]

3 hours ago, Prexades said:

That is certainly one opinion, not one even worth considering, but it is an opinion. People did long survival runs back in the day not because they were so much fun, but because it was their best shot at getting some rare void key item. The relic system is way more convenient, as I can easily acquire everything from a new prime release within a week. Yes, there are cases when I have to use a high number of radiant relics, but also cases when I get lucky in the first try with a radshare relic team.

It is rather silly to argue that the current system shouldn't be less tedious simply because it's seen as a step up from an (in your opinion) even more tedious predecessor. Putting aside the questionable validity of your statement (players could use a single key to get multiple items at a time, and thus farm even quicker than now through endurance runs), even if it were true it would still be beside the point: relic farming could easily be made less tedious than it is now, if only through smaller changes like the one I've proposed rather than another rework, and I see no reason why it should never be made to change. Unless there is value in that tedium, removing it would be an improvement. On the flipside, I don't really see the value in bulldozing people and dismissing their opinions out of hand just because you personally feel differently, which you've done on both your posts in this thread.

[Sovyul]

On 2021-06-07 at 5:40 PM, Prexades said:

This type of threads would be hilarious if they weren't boring and stupid.

Please keep your half baked 'ideas' to yourself.

wow bro OP just got SHUTDOWN

have my upvote

[Dairaion]

On 2021-06-07 at 10:08 AM, Soii14 said:

The relic system is so boring that it's actually hilarious.

First you need to get the relics, then you need to do so many pointless missions in order to get void traces. Then you upgrade it and probably don't get the rare item that you wanted. I once did 13 missions (together with 2 and a half hour of Lith relic missions because i didn't have any traces) with the Axi A7 relic. All radiant of course. The Axi A7 relic was vaulted when i did it so the relics sold for quite well. My goal was to get Ash Prime Systems which sold for around 100 plat. From all those 13 relics i didn't even get A SINGLE silver item. So selling the A7 relics would have MORE THAN DOUBLED my potential profit from one Ash Prime Systems.

I got extremly frustrated since it could have been my best trades ever to that point. Later i did a Meso mission with an intact relic and got a rare. The chances to get a rare from an inctact relic is 2% and from a radiant relic 10%. Rng should exist but when it's this scaled and plat is such an important resource since it depend a lot of how much further you can progress in the game it's so boring and terrible that it is like i said "actually hilarious".

My wish is that they make it funnier and better (maybe not easier) to get void traces. Then perhaps double or triple the prices to upgrade the relic but then locking in and guaranteeing the item that you want. Then vaulting stuff more often so that prices on prime parts doesn't drop tremendously. Thanks...

I feel bad for you because it must stink getting void parts and not being fully kitted out. At this point relics and grinding after the few elemental status mods I don’t have is the only thing keeping me playing and I just unlocked the last 2 unvaulted primes I wanted. For you it may be easier to simply not focus on the relics at all if acquiring them and using them are too big of a deal for you.

[Kaotyke]

On 2021-06-14 at 11:10 AM, mrpyro12345678 said:

I still see people who adore the times Void Keys were still there...
From what I saw recently it's no longer a popular opinion-

People tend to forget these:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Things existed.

[Prexades]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

It is rather silly to argue that the current system shouldn't be less tedious simply because it's seen as a step up from an (in your opinion) even more tedious predecessor. Putting aside the questionable validity of your statement (players could use a single key to get multiple items at a time, and thus farm even quicker than now through endurance runs), even if it were true it would still be beside the point: relic farming could easily be made less tedious than it is now, if only through smaller changes like the one I've proposed rather than another rework, and I see no reason why it should never be made to change. Unless there is value in that tedium, removing it would be an improvement. On the flipside, I don't really see the value in bulldozing people and dismissing their opinions out of hand just because you personally feel differently, which you've done on both your posts in this thread.

You are aware that Warframe is a F2P game?

The current system is already very convenient, perhaps too much so. If you get your wish of some changes, the result would almost certainly be something that is worse for players but easier to monetize. Or it would be so convenient that the market for prime parts would dry up completely.

I also think some people need a makeover from a bulldozer, because nothing else will get through to them. The OPs ideas, were not even on a level that can be called half baked. It was just a whine that the system doesn't hand him everything on a platter.

[quxier]

25 minutes ago, Prexades said:

You are aware that Warframe is a F2P game?

The current system is already very convenient, perhaps too much so. If you get your wish of some changes, the result would almost certainly be something that is worse for players but easier to monetize. Or it would be so convenient that the market for prime parts would dry up completely.

I also think some people need a makeover from a bulldozer, because nothing else will get through to them. The OPs ideas, because his ideas were not even on a level that can be called half baked. It was just a whine that the system doesn't hand him everything on a platter.

Suuuuure, because OP hasn't done 10+ radiants & gathering void traces to get all common stuffs (what I've understood).

I have done 26 runs with radiants and I've gotten only common stuffs and forma blueprints.

[Prexades]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb quxier:

Suuuuure, because OP hasn't done 10+ radiants & gathering void traces to get all common stuffs (what I've understood).

I have done 26 runs with radiants and I've gotten only common stuffs and forma blueprints.

Then it is time for you to rethink your approach. If you open 26 relics upgraded to radiants but only got common stuff then you have been ultra unlucky.  You could use the recruitment channel and either join or host a radshare team. Everyone with the same relic and upgraded has a decent chance of the drop you seek. Or if you just do random endless void fissure missions, then you get a rare every once in a while, even without an upgraded relic.

On second thought, I checked your profile ingame and you are MR25 with a lot of prime gear. Either you got deep pockets to buy everything with plat or your statement is hyperbole. At MR25 the void trace cap is barely noticeable anymore and by now you should know the best places to farm relics.

The OP likewise isn't held back from progression for lack of prime gear, because he has a very long list of non primed gear he has yet to master.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Prexades said:

Then it is time for you to rethink your approach. If you open 26 relics upgraded to radiants but only got common stuff then you have been ultra unlucky.  You could use the recruitment channel and either join or host a radshare team. Everyone with the same relic and upgraded has a decent chance of the drop you seek. Or if you just do random endless void fissure missions, then you get a rare every once in a while, even without an upgraded relic.

I'm playing solo (pc/internet issues) so I cannot do radshare. I know they are more or less ok (I used to do few runs to get what I need).

Still... if Solo is an option then it should require reasonable number of radiants to get uncommon/rare stuffs. In 27 runs I got only 1 rare/uncommon stuffs (I don't count uncommon formas bp).

I don't do runs for Rares. Even uncommon is questionable.

1 hour ago, Prexades said:

On second thought, I checked your profile ingame and you are MR25 with a lot of prime gear. Either you got deep pockets to buy everything with plat or your statement is hyperbole. At MR25 the void trace cap is barely noticeable anymore and by now you should know the best places to farm relics.

You can check my profile... interesting.

Back to the topic:

I've been playing this game for a long time. I used to play it with other people. I've gathered lot of prime parts and I used to sell syndicate weapons (even 40-50 for 100k standing), mods and arch-stuffs. Even stuffs like Serration were for 50+ plat as fair I remember.

I've trouble playing with group since they changed requirements (DX10). I've been playing Solo since then. However I'm not new player (in experience and in day played) so some stuffs to sell and few things I could grind to sell. For me buying every non-prime frames since Octavia wasn't big problem. But you know... it's around 3-4 years per ~12 frames.

For solo players with much less days played it will be much harder. I would probably say goodbye to this game if I had to just do relics. Of course playing with groups is different topic.

1 hour ago, Prexades said:

The OP likewise isn't held back from progression for lack of prime gear, because he has a very long list of non primed gear he has yet to master.

Does OP want all stuffs? Maybe s/he wants only few? I gathered all stuffs for different reasons but I don't use probably 90-95% of them. If it wasn't for this MR benefits then I would probably get maybe 10-20% of all items.

[Teridax68]

3 hours ago, Prexades said:

You are aware that Warframe is a F2P game?

And this means it needs to be needlessly inconvenient... why? You seem to have forgotten the "game" aspect of Warframe, and while one could perhaps argue that there is a link between inconvenience tied to relics and DE's income for Primes in Prime Access or Prime Vault, there is little direct monetary incentive for DE to make Prime parts harder to obtain when those aren't covered by either.

3 hours ago, Prexades said:

The current system is already very convenient, perhaps too much so.

This is clearly untrue when there are demonstrably inconvenient components to the system that are not essential to its function, as pointed out above.

3 hours ago, Prexades said:

If you get your wish of some changes, the result would almost certainly be something that is worse for players but easier to monetize. Or it would be so convenient that the market for prime parts would dry up completely.

How would either result from the suggestion I proposed? Slippery slope arguments in general are already fallacious to begin with, but in this particular case you did not even make the minimum effort to draw any sort of link between my proposal and the diametrically opposite catastrophes you listed. These sorts of hysterics are overused on these forums by people who have no valid means of arguing against something they personally dislike, and when applied to concrete changes like Scarlet Spear letting players choose which Arcanes to farm, or DE letting us acquire certain Riven mods more easily and drastically altering the dispositions on weapons, the doomsayers have been proven wrong every single time.

3 hours ago, Prexades said:

I also think some people need a makeover from a bulldozer, because nothing else will get through to them. The OPs ideas, were not even on a level that can be called half baked. It was just a whine that the system doesn't hand him everything on a platter.

You may want to honestly ask yourself if you are among those people, because it sounds like your intent here is less to have an intelligent debate, and more to just bully people. Yeah, the OP was a bit ranty, but there nonetheless was a point there that clearly appealed to some people and served as the basis for valid discussion. You yourself did not even bother to have a conversation with the OP, you just insulted them and raked in the easy upvotes. If your goal is to truly change people's minds, you may want to try developing your arguments a bit more, and not dismiss and belittle people as your first move, because the latter especially is precisely what gets people to see you as unworthy of changing their opinions. If, by contrast, your only objective is to make yourself feel better by bringing down easy targets and getting hollow validation from internet strangers, by all means keep doing what you're doing.