Update 30.5: Melee & Primary Balance Changes Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

13 hours ago, kacmed said:

i am really sorry that i expressed my point of view ... oh wait this is exactly what is thread is about

i never said meele is dead ... with this changes meele is still superior to guns ... i just stated they should avoid removing fun parts of the game because in the end ... its PVE so nobody really cares how crazy OP you could be ... well maybe DEVS because they wanna protect NPC's???? i dont get it honestly 
 

No. This is a feedback thread. Coming in here with your subjective whining about "MUH RED CRITS" and calling the melee animations "trash" is not constructive in the slightest. Go rant on your own personal blog instead.

 

2 hours ago, Wolfwaffe said:

DE: We're adding galvanized mods and arcanas for guns that trigger on kill to help fighting Steel Path enemies with guns.

Meanwhile, Steel Path enemies when shot be like:

  Hide contents

 

Clearly you're not modding your weapons correctly.

[Spelgalen]

Glaives feel terrible now with the increased wind up on throws and with wind up changed go off heavy attack wind up speed instead of attack speed you need either Killing Blow or Amalgam Organ Shatter to make it feel bearable and both to make it feel good (althought i haven't been able to try it with both because i don't have Amalgam Organ Shatter). And the problem of accidentally throwing the glaive when doing normal combos which was the reason for the change wasn't fixed at all because wind up doesn't change how long it takes to start a throw only the time it takes to for the throw to go through, so spamming melee will still cause you to accidentally throw it. So please either revert the wind up speed change or lessen it because it only makes glaives feel really sluggish.

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

4 minutes ago, Spelgalen said:

Glaives feel terrible now with the increased wind up on throws and with wind up changed go off heavy attack wind up speed instead of attack speed you don't have alot of ways to speed it up i.e. only one mod gives heavy attack wind up speed and that's Killing Impact but even with that it's still only just beareble in my opinion. And the problem of accidentally throwing the glaive when doing normal combos which was the reason for the change wasn't fixed at all because wind up doesn't change how long it takes to start a throw only the time it takes to for the throw to go through, so spamming melee will still cause you to accidentally throw it. So please either revert the wind up speed change or lessen it because it only makes glaives feel really sluggish.

 

Have you tried Amalgam Organ Shatter? That also decreases Heavy Attack Wind Up Speed and stacks with Killing Blow. 

[Wolfwaffe]

17 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Clearly you're not modding your weapons correctly.

Define 'correctly'.

I mean... we have Mandatory Mod 1 (serration), I-have-no-choice mod 2 (multishot), obligatory mod 3 (critchance), necessary mod 4 (critmulti)...

 

But obviously I was somewhat overexaggerating. Guess it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

 

Okay a bit more on-topic, lower the buff percentage per stack but remove stack limit and duration. As in you kill an enemy, you get a permanent buff for the duration of the mission or until you die.

[Xikto]

I think i found the way to keep the "on kill" and "on headshot kill" effect while also making it actually usably on higher levels,
Just add an extra effect to the galvanized mods "timer resets on hit" and kaboom you can have on kill but still keep it usable, even on headshot kill wouldn't be bad!W



Also FFS make galvanized scope stack timers work separately just like the diffusion ones, it is a really bad idea to keep it like this (like it is an offense to our and your intelligence)

[(PSN)Silverback73]

The more I read, the more it seems like these mods should have:

1. ”on hit”

2.  The same mod cost as their regular counterparts or maybe just +1.

3.  Extended timers

Game Design Suggestion after following the above because Galvanized mods are an “upgrade”:

DE simply needs to create a “Galvanize Forma slot upgrade” to make these mods viable in already forma’d mod slots.  Think of it as a forma’d mod slot version of AW gyromag, A Madurai Polarity becomes a galvanized Madurai polarity that can use standard and galvanized.

Do the above DE gets their timesink/grind/plat and sooo many of these new problems simply go away.

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Silverback73 said:

 

[Mr_Garrito]

Can we talk about the absolutely disgusting stealth nerf to Exodia Contagion that appears to have gone un-noticed???

Prior to update you could bullet jump - throw a contagion, double jump - throw a second contagion before landing back down (you could do this a 3rd time with Chroms's passive)

Now this no longer functions the same and you can only throw 1 single projectile before landing back down no matter how much you double jump or aim glide.

THIS IS UTTERLY DISGUSTING, NOT NEEDED AND QUITE FRANKLY PATHETIC

I hope this a bug and intends to be fixed because i don't remember seeing anything about a contagion nerf in the patch notes

 

Couple this with the fact that acolytes NO LONGER reliably spawn in steel path incursions and that's 2 stealth nerfs not included in the patch notes.

 

[Spelgalen]

 

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Have you tried Amalgam Organ Shatter? That also decreases Heavy Attack Wind Up Speed and stacks with Killing Blow. 

I unfortunately don't have that mod so i can't try it but i still think they should change it because needing two mods to make glaive  feel good to throw really limits what builds you can do

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

Just now, Spelgalen said:

 

I unfortunately don't have that mod so i can't try it but i still think they should change it because needing two mods to make glaive  feel good to throw really limits what builds you can do

 

Most melee builds use the regular version of Organ Shatter anyway. You're just replacing it with a slightly weaker version made specifically for heavy attack builds. 

[Spelgalen]

8 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Most melee builds use the regular version of Organ Shatter anyway. You're just replacing it with a slightly weaker version made specifically for heavy attack builds. 

true but needing to fit Killing blow as well on every build focused on throw, even on Volatile Rebound-Blood Rush builds for example means you need to give up on some damage just to make it feel good since only the manual explosion counts as a heavy attack unless they changed that

[(PSN)jockhotty]

PLEASE add a galvanized mod tab to the mod menus. Thank you.

[(PSN)jockhotty]

1 hour ago, Mr_Garrito said:

Can we talk about the absolutely disgusting stealth nerf to Exodia Contagion that appears to have gone un-noticed???

Prior to update you could bullet jump - throw a contagion, double jump - throw a second contagion before landing back down (you could do this a 3rd time with Chroms's passive)

Now this no longer functions the same and you can only throw 1 single projectile before landing back down no matter how much you double jump or aim glide.

THIS IS UTTERLY DISGUSTING, NOT NEEDED AND QUITE FRANKLY PATHETIC

I hope this a bug and intends to be fixed because i don't remember seeing anything about a contagion nerf in the patch notes

 

Couple this with the fact that acolytes NO LONGER reliably spawn in steel path incursions and that's 2 stealth nerfs not included in the patch notes.

 

I have to believe that acolytes spawn failure  or spawn and disappear IS a BUG. Right? Right? .....Right?

[33NinjA33]

galvanized mods seem buggy with projectile weapons vs beam weapons. might need fixed. Also, we need primary 3.0 along with the mod changes. there's plenty of weapons i love, like the quellor and the stradvar, but if i take a step in steel path and expect those to keep me alive, I better pray to rhino to do that job, as i run out of ammo before killing something like vey hek. Please balance primary weapons for steel path.

[Doraz_]

Make GALVANIZED APTITUDE into Galvanized Serration!!!

 

now, if you ony put the galvanized one, the moment you get a kill the damage is INSANE! too high and far from what you would get when using serration.

 

This makes the shots taken before getting the kill requirement feel awful.

 

Let us decide how much status we want, we have status mods for that reason.

[-Kittens-]

5 hours ago, Xikto said:

like pistols are highly underused

Said no one ever.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

The Ambassador weapon is tedious to farm for no reason, the parts are in railjack nodes where before you even get to do the survival you have to do a railjack objective first, then the parts are dropped in different locations and drop in rotation C so you have to wait 20, 40, 60 minits and the drop chance is low.

I when up to 60 mints three times and I still didn`t get not one part, this is unnecessary grind for no reason and needs to change. Also the weapon with the secondary shot takes 44 shots and the reload is 2.6 seconds again this is unnecessary and need to change.

Weapon drop changes:

• Make all the parts drop on one location (venus)
• I would rather it not drop on railjack mission and drop on a normal corpas tileset but if you`re going to keep it on railjack, remove the railjack small objectives so we can go strait to the survival.
• The weapon parts should drop on rotation A.
• The drop chance should be increased by 50%.

 

Weapon changes:

• Decrease the reload speed to1.5 or 2.0 seconds.
• Remove the reload animation when switching to the secondary fire.
• Make the secondary fire consume 22 ammo per shot.

 

I love the way the weapon look but its a bloody pain to get.

[Doraz_]

Plus that "headshot kill" required DESTROYS hunter mubutions and status slash builds ;-;

[QuinnZai]

So far I have to say that the parazon feels more useful for general high level heavy units. I would just like to say the gameplay with it feels more natural and I am enjoying using it over using weapons to finish the rest of the health pool. I appreciate this change, especially considering that I felt that the parazon was pointless outside of liches.

Great job

[Oorel]

In my opinion the changes to Glaive Heavy attack wind-up from 0.6 to 1.2 was beyond excessive. If the goal was to help quick throw, and not to disincentivize the use of Heavy Attacks I think the number should be 0.8. Right now, fully modding to alleviate the high heavy attack wind up is not enough to make it comfortable, it take just a bit too long to get the glaive out and dealing damage, its hard to be reactive and nimble with it, I miss that a lot. Its become too deliberate and its a shame.

[Oorel]

The "Arsenal Divide" can not be addressed with "on kill" effects.

when the chips are down, so to speak, melee is king. If any fight is drawn out the guns just loose their efficacy, melee doesn't.

You also didn't nerf melee enough. I don't want melee nerfed at all, but this was a token effort and I believe you stirred the pot for no reason at all.

[(PSN)DiligentDiamond]

On 2021-07-06 at 3:53 PM, Dazzul said:

Glaives feel awful now; even with multiple speed mods charging a throw is horribly slow.

Totally agree the hold time to charge the throw feels terrible now. Was a fun weapon... not so much now... 80% of my throws fail... and xoris blasts are also inconsistent. Some graphical element to let us know when its charged to throw or audio cue? I'm on PS4 base model so lag spikes and input lag tend to be a thing. My 2 cents on the Melee.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

2 hours ago, Spelgalen said:

true but needing to fit Killing blow as well on every build focused on throw, even on Volatile Rebound-Blood Rush builds for example means you need to give up on some damage just to make it feel good since only the manual explosion counts as a heavy attack unless they changed that

What are you talking about? Killing Blow gives damage to heavy attacks as well as lowering wind up speed. It's pretty much mandatory on heavy attack builds.

Also, why would you want to run a combo build on a Glaive when the throw builds outclass them by a country mile? 

[Traumtulpe]

17 minutes ago, Oorel said:

If the goal was to help quick throw, and not to disincentivize the use of Heavy Attacks

It's funny, because they accomplished the opposite. Heavy attacks feel like before to me (because I added charge speed which was previously too much and caused bugs), but light throws deal 40% less damage and take longer to charge and result in normal attacks if charged slightly too short. Feels terrible, so I only use full charge now.

[(NSW)Windbornesword]

On Kill Status Effects: 

These need to die in a fire. I hate these effects. They are worthless when you face a big enemy like a Sister, Lich or ANY BOSS (even pre-Steel Path) in the game excepting the Sergeant. Every single one of these effects are pointless and utterly useless once a player gets into the higher level play areas when hunting Adversaries or playing the Steel Path. They're a waste of a mod slot once a player reaches those areas, because consistency is king when dealing with status effect procs. Make them on hit, or on crit. That way we can diversify some weapons so that these mods aren't universally used like Serration and it's equivalents are. If they are on crit we can use them on weapons with a decent Crit chance, like a Kuva Nukor but not something like Rubico Prime. If they are on hit than it can be used on fast firing weapons like the Soma (Prime), but not a Daikyu. Those are interesting changes, the On Kill aren't interesting or fun. 

Galvanized Mods:

Not nearly enough incentive to bother forma-ing a weapon five or more times just to use these on most weapons. The Arcanes also do nothing for us to help bring up gun damage especially since they aren't unlocked by default. Why are they locked behind some stupid arcane unlocker? Why not just let them be open freely like the rest of the Arcanes in the game. The more intelligent move would have been to use stance mods for the same effects. It would have alleviated the necessity of having to forma a weapon 5 or more times down to something much more reasonable like 3-4 times at most. 

Glaive Changes: 

I hate the change you made to Glaives. I really, really hate them. They aren't as snappy to use anymore. Why would a Space Ninja need a wind up time to throw a weapon? They don't need it for things like the Kunai! Frankly the speed issue was never a major problem, if you were attacking with a standard melee attack you're doing it wrong with a Glaive, or a Gunblade. They are absolutely terrible weapons for those purposes. You seemed to be embracing that design philosophy with last year's changes to Glaives, which were great. Now Glaives are not nearly as fun to use. 

Melee Nerfs:

Melee was a hundred times more interesting and fun than the gunplay of Warframe. If I wanted to play a great gunplay game I’d play Destiny, probably. I hate what Bungie has done in regards to changes since Forsaken, so I might not play it regardless. I play Warframe purely for the melee and abilities. Frankly the gunplay is terrible. There are a lot more effects and varied guns than Destiny, but almost none of them are as satisfying to use. I say almost none because the Nukor is great fun, and so is the Bramma. The former is has also been nerfed, not necessarily for a good enough reason. It being dominant just means all the other secondary weapons are not as good at clearing rooms. The change won’t affect that in any way except making the Nukor slightly worse at that. It’ll still be the go to secondary weapon for this purpose. Other secondaries are just much too weak comparatively, they should have been buffed, instead of the Nukor getting nerfed.

The problem these changes bring is that it nerfs so many things all at once. Take Berserker, it’s gotten 5 distinct nerfs with this single change. It’s nerfing it’s proc starter, it’s proc effect power, it’s proc effect duration and it’s effect stack amount. It’s also nerfing the flexibility in limiting it to be exclusive with other fury mods. That’s 5 nerfs all in one change. At most it should have one nerf to the proc, and the exclusivity. But you did all 5. It’s extremely hasty, and won’t change the meta in any way but making it even more limited. Right now you can get away with using any melee weapon type. After this goes into effect it’s usage is now limited to extremely fast multi hit Slash weapons like the Kronen Prime, and Reaper Prime for high level play like in the Steel Path or for Adversaries.

These nerfs don’t affect Warframe abilities so we’re still going to have melee animations be missed due to attack speed. Frankly I’m imagining a bunch more Valkyr, Volt and Wisp use in the near future now that you've nerfed Berserker to bedrock for no good reason. So instead of positively broadening the meta it’s done the exact opposite and limited it even further in an extremely negative manner. 

Here's the best solution you could have come up with:

Make the melee combo meter universal to every weapon, including guns so that guns can take advantage of the increased damage multiplier. Imagine one shotting Vor by racking up a huge combo counter on his adds and various mobs while traversing the mission to his boss room and then head shotting him with a Rubico Prime for over a million health killing him instantly. That would have been the intelligent move, and would’ve changed the meta to be much more balanced. It’d have been more work in the short term, but would’ve solved the base issues.

Conclusion:

As it is I'm quitting playing this game once my copy of Tales of Vesperia for my Switch arrives this weekend. I loved playing this game purely because the Melee was fun and rewarding. Now that it's been crippled and restricted even more, and I own a Kronen Prime, Reaper Prime and Glaive Prime despite playing only for 11 months, I'm not having nearly as much fun playing the game. There were plenty of intelligent design choices you could have made, but you seem to have chosen the worst and then ignored the massive amount of feedback telling you that it'd be a bad idea after you announced it. Why should I bother playing yet another game like Destiny, which has amazing Gunplay I'll admit, when the Developers can't balance weapons at all intelligently. I quit that game because Bungie couldn't handle weapon balance at all, I'll do the exact same thing here if I have to. I'd really rather not, Warframe was fun until Tuesday. Now it's not fun at all. I died 9 times to my Sister and only barely got my final Requiem sequence locked in because I cheesed the fight by having my Celestial Twin attack while it was invincible while I used Cloud Walker as Wukong. That is stupid, I shouldn't have had to bend the mechanics of this game to jump through ridiculous hoops just to whittle down a single enemy's health pool. Oh and because I was playing a capture mission there were no more enemies for me to proc Berserker on so I couldn't rely on my melee weapon to deal damage either.