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Update 30.5: Melee & Primary Balance Changes Feedback Megathread (Read First Post!)


[DE]CoreyOnline
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2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Uh, weapons that aren't Kuva/Tenet/Prime/Kitguns? Duh?

It's important to be specific because some weapons are just meant to be low MR fodder for newer people progressing through the game. They're meant to be replaced eventually, but some of them are popular favorites like the fulmin or ignis or something. 

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4 hours ago, (PSN)c1234567890alvi said:

With the elimination of Gladiator Mods on Deconstructor, Helios has pretty much become obsolete and with that the last robotic companion has become obsolete. Please rework companions. Thank you.

Also Meta-Guns have become more meta, while bad weapons have been left behind even more.

Finally 270.000 Endo, 180 vitus essences and at least 128 dead acolytes just to make most guns Steel Path viable is kinda excessive.

You're not supposed to max all the mods out on day one, fyi.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

You're not supposed to max all the mods out on day one, fyi.

I have been grinding Endo and Vitus essences for weeks. And getting the necessary Formas and the Arcanes will take another few weeks. Weeks of farming for the buffs that were supposed to get guns on the level of melee while the most common/popular melee mods get nerfed. Seems kinda wrong to me :(

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7 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's important to be specific because some weapons are just meant to be low MR fodder for newer people progressing through the game. They're meant to be replaced eventually, but some of them are popular favorites like the fulmin or ignis or something. 

This line is just as ridiculous now as it was the first time I heard it. Warframe should be about its uniqueness and creativity and using the hundreds of weapons and dozens of frames at your disposal to run around and have fun, not throwing all the cool toys away so we can use the same dozen boring uber-weapons with the same one boring build.

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After 3 hours on this update this will be my final rant: Awful. Just terrible decisions, half of my melee arsenal are not fun to play anymore.

You want us to hate you , that is the truth.

I also spent 2 hours trying to get a kuva hek (still not found btw), what a boring gaming experience, i'll come back for the new war, from now i'm out of this game.

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9 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

It's important to add some build details in as well so we know the situation isn't comprised by a flawed build too.

Sure, I use builds similar to this: https://i.imgur.com/ndKPRjR.jpg

Even if you claim my builds are worthless and I know nothing about modding, the fact remains that having "on kill" on galvanized is unnecessary. I don't think we should fulfill additional conditions so that some guns can compete with melee (that we don't have to aim, reload, replenish ammo of, or perform the same tricks to benefit from similar mods). Weapons that struggle to kill will struggle to keep up the buff. I guess top-tier ones will benefit, but I was under the impression that these new mods were supposed to expand our usage of arsenal, not narrow it down.

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

You're not supposed to max all the mods out on day one, fyi.

Stop it. We have hundreds of thousands of stockpiled unused Endo. Telling us we're not supposed to max them all out in a single day is akin to asking us to only use Endo we farm today onwards as if anything we've gathered is meaningless.

You used to be a lot more reasonable some months ago when you first started posting. Now all your posts boil down to "play WF less".

Stop it.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Glaives charged throw, quick attack version is bugged.

Before you could throw at any time after holding "E", and would never fail a charged throw, the quick attack.

Now there is a 'fail window' in trying to build up to quick attack but shouldn't it be a quick attack?

 

It is a charge up, before the actual charge up. Resulting in punching holes in the air, more often that doing quick attacks.

This wasn't mentioned in the patch notes so I am guessing it is a bug. Needless to say it makes glaives's throw unreliable.

 

Feels sort of like having your gun jam on every 3rd shot.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

This line is just as ridiculous now as it was the first time I heard it. Warframe should be about its uniqueness and creativity and using the hundreds of weapons and dozens of frames at your disposal to run around and have fun, not throwing all the cool toys away so we can use the same dozen boring uber-weapons with the same one boring build.

I dislike his other posts here but he is right, and DE said it themselves during the 2018 primary/secondary weapon pass.

They adjusted weapon MR based on their performance ballpark. This explicitly meant that weapon tiers exist and that an MR1 weapon is meant to be significantly weaker than an MR14 weapon.

If all the high MR weapons feel the same then that's an argument to add more high MR weapons that fill empty niches rather than asking for MR1 weapons to compete.

As in the very first Final Fantasy on the NES, initial weapons are not meant to compete with late game weapons. Tha'ts just the nature of progression in stats-based games. "Choice" is an illusion as long as stats are tiered.

Edited by Jarriaga
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Kohm does really well (barring ammo economy) with Galvanized Hell and Savvy. The cone shaped AoE and the pellets applying a lot of statuses quickly really help it. The Kuva Hind on the other hand kills better with Galvanized Chamber and Aptitude, but it's single target kills just can't keep pace with the Kohm and nowhere close to any decent melee build on a SP Defense mission.

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And of courser Ignis W is an absolute monster now, why even use anything else when this gun is so convenient and easy to use in every situation, barely requires any aim and now does several times more damage and melts SP mobs too. Other than it's really boring but still, its just the best overall and thats why half the people already use it all the time and now even more will.

This change made already most used\OP weapons even better - that's all it achieved really.

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8 hours ago, [DE]CoreyOnline said:

Please use this thread to let us know your feelings on the following:

Melee Mod Nerfs
Weapon Changes
Primary & Secondary Weapon Arcanes
Galvanized Mods
Login Items
Anything else covered in the Dev Workshop: Arsenal Divide

I

Can there pretty-pretty-pretty-pretty please with a massive chocloate covered cherry on top fix Stance Forma not working with Dual-Split Sword? Please? What needs to happen for this to be accomplished? Can I help? PLEASE! I haven't needed much in my life up to this point, but .... S#&amp;&#036; is getting real guys. <3

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4 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

snip

You might get hit for personal attacks or something with that comment, I'd be wary.

@(PSN)Madurai-Primebefore he edits it though, maybe take what they're saying to heart. Kinda unproductive dialogue, implying we should never be able to use any existing stockpiles of things. ALSO unproductive, to act like this does anything to close the early-game gap between melee and guns that already exists. This only really addresses super-late-game, and arguably so at best, going by other's findings and observations.

At it's core, Melee has just been designed to be more lucrative based on it's ease of use, lack of ammo/energy restrictions, and it's innate scaling options via the combo meter, and its superior modding options. Guns should have their baseline damage, or their baseline damage mods, or their baseline functionality, improved to be comparable/competitive to melee (with the exception of the ridiculously ubiquitous AoE weapons that don't need help clearing rooms or spreading CC).

It's that simple. 

DE needs to make guns worth the limited ammo you have to strive to recover, compared to just closing the gap and using Melee.

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Make it on crit for those mods to proc stacks, on kill is too punishing remove the on kill factor, Imagine a low ammo pool weapon and make it an on kill like the bramma, what ammo do you have to shoot and get stacks for primaries to be viable?? have you ever thought about it atleast? it really really feels underwhelming to be honest

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I would like to point, that since the great buff to the Creeping Bullseye in 29.10 (from +48% CC to whooping +187% CC) and now 30.5 (from 187% CC to +200% CC), it completely invalidated existence of the Primed Pistol Gambit (mere +187% while costing 3 MORE MOD CAPACITY).

Considering that Primed Mods (Legendary) were always higher in tiers of mods than Rare mods, how did we end up with "weaker" and more "common" mod being a straight upgrade over Legendary mod (with omission of minor fire rate penalty) ???

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I'm loving the new galvanized mods so far! However the "on headshot kill" ones really need to be reconsidered:

These new galvanized mods and acolyte arcanes are meant for high level content. In high level content, you kill enemies primarily through procs (bleed for grineer, toxin for corpus, heat and electricity, etc). The galvanized mod seems to only give me a stack of the bonus if the "bullet" kills the mob, not the procs. This narrows its use down dramatically. It should be "on headshot" only, and then maybe nerf the stats a little to make up for it. Otherwise they won't be used at all, outside of some very niche cases. 

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20 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Stop it. We have hundreds of thousands of stockpiled unused Endo. Telling us we're not supposed to max them all out in a single day is akin to asking us to only use Endo we farm today onwards as if anything we've gathered is meaningless.

You used to be a lot more reasonable some months ago when you first started posting. Now all your posts boil down to "play WF less".

Stop it.

If you're not planning on quitting the game any time soon, a couple weeks is nothing. You're even free to buy it all if you're in that much of a rush. 

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1 hour ago, Monolake said:

Got all the mods and maxed them. Tested on recent prime weapon (which I consider to be a above average but not great) - Tenora P (with Prime Shred)  on Steel Path. Getting\upkeeping the buffs is pretty easy since there are enough weak mobs like butchers. But still it's very underwhelming and cant keep the killcount to cull the inflow of mobs and sustain LS.  Pretty much as expected single-target weapons are still no-competitve.  Really struggles to kill Acolytes. Meanwhile Bramma wipes the room even without any new mods.

Weapons need to be balanced individually or nothing will change and the same few guns will continue to be used all the time.

Meanwhile  melee still removes everything it touches  - and Ive tested on below average weapon - Dual Ethers with not the most optimal build, no rivens.

I mean, this is a single target vs AoE issue, not a gun vs melee ones tbh (although by default all melees do AoE really well). There's absolutely nothing DE can do at this point to make single target worth it outside of niche boss fights like eidolons or demolysts. Even their newest single target weapons are coming with AoE gimmicks or alternate fires to make them usable (trumna for example, one of my favorite weapons ). The enemies are weak, we have years of power creep to one shot them with AoE weapons, why would we ever use single target ones in a horde shooter with dozens of mobs out at once every mission? That's a dilemma for DE to solve. 

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2 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

If you're not planning on quitting the game any time soon, a couple weeks is nothing. You're even free to buy it all if you're in that much of a rush. 

It's not a matter or rushing or not. I have millions of unused Endo. Are you suggesting I should just ignore my own resources? Why?

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I rarely post, if ever. Been a long 8 year player, spent tons of money because I loved the melee concept in this game as opposed to guns in every other game. That melee feel is totally gone, not sure who asked for this, but hope they can foot the money I spent and would've kept spending. 

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Just now, Jarriaga said:

It's not a matter or rushing or not. I have millions of unused Endo. Are you suggesting I should just ignore my own resources? Why?

You have the freedom to have any choice. Farm the mods or buy them and max them. They're cheap enough.....it's literally up to you whether you have them all now, or in 1 week. 

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