The new lich's damage reduction is insane

[0_The_F00l]

They do seem to have a per hit damage cap, that kinda makes high damage weapons pointless,

Even though this makes sense to prolong a fight ,

it is rather stupid even if effective, like cutting your nose to spite your face stupid.

i will simply be using a more rapid fire weapon with relatively lower damage per shot to stay under the cap.

Seeing numbers in the hundreds where earlier they are much higher does take away some of the fun away.

Dont get me wrong , i am glad that they arent getting one shot and present a commendable challenge,

but i never liked pigeon holing in games and i don't like it here.

[Anaktoria]

5 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Pretty sure we have a way to not use damage reduction to 98%, but that involves heavy blanket nerfing on everything in warframe to the point a level 100 bombard will feel menacing for a full team

It's definitely true that we're in this situation because the devs face the dilemma of trying to balance a game that is presently impossible - or nearly so - to balance. Damned if they do nerf things, damned if they don't. In that regard, I don't blame them for coming up with solutions that feel either ineffective or suffocating. I do still feel that the damage attenuation in this particular case can be tweaked a little back from how intense it is at the moment, though - time will only tell if DE agrees, or if any future changes will be sufficient to please most of the community. They certainly have no small task on their hands and trying to balance damage attenuation alone, on nemeses or on enemies at large, will not solve nearly all their problems, so I sincerely wish the devs the best (and I do genuinely appreciate all their work and the degree to which they listen to the community).

[herflik]

I would rather fight something with millions of HP than low hp and max-per-hit damage reductions. Since the first method doesn't change how current damage mechanics work in unpredictable way to the player.

[Anaktoria]

2 minutes ago, herflik said:

I would rather fight something with millions of HP than low hp and max-per-hit damage reductions. Since the first method doesn't change how current damage mechanics work in unpredictable way to the player.

Agreed!

[-Kittens-]

On 2021-07-08 at 3:59 PM, (PSN)JustJoshinEnt said:

So you had a challenge, and you found a tool for the job.   What's the issue?  How would any changes change THAT outcome?  ANY incarnation of this system would result in SOME sort of "meta solution", as any problem always has an optimum solution... and THAT would be the new *fill in the blank* to "cheese" the challenge.  So, again, what's wrong with this solution?

The part where it's bullS#&$.

 

If my Lich is weak to toxin and I'm using the Karyst Heavy attack to inflict SIX FIGURE slash and toxin damage per second, the fight should not take five minutes of smashing one button to conclude.

You haven't the faintest.

[TheGrimCorsair]

What damage resistance?

They die in one to two hits.

Nevermind, it's probably just an edge case.

[Thaxano]

Can someone resume me the best way to down sisters/lich? because i've used Nyx with her 100% strip armor ability and it seems to do nothing, like the Lich continue to feel like nothing on each shot, and also i've tried Chroma with 506% damage boost and the redeemer and i just go from 6 damage top 100-200 damage also i wanted to try excalibur to blind him but the lich randomly one shot him despite the fact that i've adaptation and 1040HP, i ran out of possibility

[Azamagon]

16 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

Can someone resume me the best way to down sisters/lich? because i've used Nyx with her 100% strip armor ability and it seems to do nothing, like the Lich continue to feel like nothing on each shot, and also i've tried Chroma with 506% damage boost and the redeemer and i just go from 6 damage top 100-200 damage also i wanted to try excalibur to blind him but the lich randomly one shot him despite the fact that i've adaptation and 1040HP, i ran out of possibility

I use Nyx with Orthos Prime and just spam attack *shrugs*

[Thaxano]

il y a 3 minutes, Azamagon a dit :

I use Nyx with Orthos Prime and just spam attack *shrugs*

But the lich should take you and beat you down, how do you do? Does the 4th ability of nyx avoid that attack?

[Azamagon]

10 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

But the lich should take you and beat you down, how do you do? Does the 4th ability of nyx avoid that attack?

Never had any issues staying alive if I have Absorb with Asssimilate augment up.

[Thaxano]

il y a 9 minutes, Azamagon a dit :

Never had any issues staying alive if I have Absorb with Asssimilate augment up.

but how about the damage, do you rip off huge part of his life bar or do you just spam during 2 minutes?

[0_The_F00l]

55 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

Can someone resume me the best way to down sisters/lich? because i've used Nyx with her 100% strip armor ability and it seems to do nothing, like the Lich continue to feel like nothing on each shot, and also i've tried Chroma with 506% damage boost and the redeemer and i just go from 6 damage top 100-200 damage also i wanted to try excalibur to blind him but the lich randomly one shot him despite the fact that i've adaptation and 1040HP, i ran out of possibility

It depends on which rank the sister is , if it's rank 5 it will have very strong DR , lower than 4 is relatively easy.

You actually don't want things that do a lot of damage in a single instance , you want something that does small damage in lots of instances (think auto rifle or shotgun )

So avoid things like snipers or stropha,

Also check the resistances , you want to use things that they are used to.

[Azamagon]

15 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

but how about the damage, do you rip off huge part of his life bar or do you just spam during 2 minutes?

Huh?

Once you strip armor (and shields for Sisters), you only need to attack them for a little while (like, max 30 seconds if at rank 5). Have you modded your weapons properly? Look at their weaknesses/resistances/immunities too and mod accordingly.

[TeaHands]

1 hour ago, Thaxano said:

Can someone resume me the best way to down sisters/lich? because i've used Nyx with her 100% strip armor ability and it seems to do nothing, like the Lich continue to feel like nothing on each shot, and also i've tried Chroma with 506% damage boost and the redeemer and i just go from 6 damage top 100-200 damage also i wanted to try excalibur to blind him but the lich randomly one shot him despite the fact that i've adaptation and 1040HP, i ran out of possibility

Apparently shotguns deal decent damage, also high strength Gloom makes it easier to have them sit still.

Again I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like the damage reduction resets after 3-5 seconds of not hitting them. So I think spamming isn't encouraged in this fight.

[Thaxano]

il y a 3 minutes, 0_The_F00l a dit :

It depends on which rank the sister is , if it's rank 5 it will have very strong DR , lower than 4 is relatively easy.

You actually don't want things that do a lot of damage in a single instance , you want something that does small damage in lots of instances (think auto rifle or shotgun )

So avoid things like snipers or stropha,

Also check the resistances , you want to use things that they are used to.

i've used mesa too but her 4th ability do only a pixel of damage on his life bar once his shield is down... and it's a quick attack like you've recomanded

put i didn't pay attention to the resistance of the lich and of course i talk about a level 5 lich (i've not tried sister for now)

 

 

il y a 5 minutes, Azamagon a dit :

Huh?

Once you strip armor (and shields for Sisters), you only need to attack them for a little while (like, max 30 seconds if at rank 5). Have you modded your weapons properly? Look at their weaknesses/resistances/immunities too and mod accordingly.

i didn't pay attention to the resistance but as i've said "i've used Nyx with her 100% strip armor ability and it seems to do nothing" like for real nothing seemed to change after i've used the second ability on the level 5 lich...

[(XBOX)l Saminator l]

1 minute ago, TomCruisesSon said:

Apparently shotguns deal decent damage, also high strength Gloom makes it easier to have them sit still.

Again I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like the damage reduction resets after 3-5 seconds of not hitting them. So I think spamming isn't encouraged in this fight.

This is definitely true, I've had to encourage mesa players to not spam peacemaker on Liches the whole time, and is causes them to have an absurd amount of damage reduction, which would eventually go away if the mesa player would deactivate peacemaker and wait a few seconds. 

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

So avoid things like snipers or stropha,

This does, however, suggest one of the issues.

Sniper rifles, after all, are literally defined by being able to do lots of damage to a single target. They're practically the archetypical 'assassin' weapon of the modern age, with the possible exception of something like a knife. This is usually counteracted, including in Warframe, by having them be sub-par in close-quarters fights or large group battles. Most games, even horde-shooter games with sniper rifles or sniper-like weapons will usually feature circumstances where there's big powerful enemies  to justify using the sniper rifles on.

So If Warframe is at a point where the game needs to actively prevent weapons from doing the thing they're supposed to be good at doing, then maybe we need to take a step back and start questioning if the whole damage system is busted.

[Thaxano]

il y a 8 minutes, TomCruisesSon a dit :

Apparently shotguns deal decent damage, also high strength Gloom makes it easier to have them sit still.

Again I don't know if it's just me, but it seems like the damage reduction resets after 3-5 seconds of not hitting them. So I think spamming isn't encouraged in this fight.

i'm not familiar with sevagoth i'll check that, also if what you say is right it could be a good idée, burst then wait before burst again, but we need to know if the lich is able to get back his shield before the resistance reset

[Thaxano]

il y a 2 minutes, (XBOX)l Saminator l a dit :

This is definitely true, I've had to encourage mesa players to not spam peacemaker on Liches the whole time, and is causes them to have an absurd amount of damage reduction, which would eventually go away if the mesa player would deactivate peacemaker and wait a few seconds. 

hoooooo, my friend and me used mesa it's maybe why the lich seemed so hard to beat everytime :O

[TeaHands]

Just now, Thaxano said:

i'm not familiar with sevagoth i'll check that

I use a high strength Gloom Chroma so I'm healing while dishing out damage and essentially stops enemies from moving in range

3 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

also if what you say is right i could be a good idée, burst then wait before burst again, but we need to know if the lich is able to get back his shield before the resistance reset

That's the tricky part, give them time to let the DR timer reset, but gotta be quick enough before their shield kicks in. I honestly like this interaction, but sisters will definitely get nerfed post tennocon

[0_The_F00l]

Just now, Loza03 said:

This does, however, suggest one of the issues.

Sniper rifles, after all, are literally defined by being able to do lots of damage to a single target. They're practically the archetypical 'assassin' weapon of the modern age, with the possible exception of something like a knife. This is usually counteracted, including in Warframe, by having them be sub-par in close-quarters fights or large group battles. Most games, even horde-shooter games with sniper rifles or sniper-like weapons will usually feature circumstances where there's big powerful enemies  to justify using the sniper rifles on.

So If Warframe is at a point where the game needs to actively prevent weapons from doing the thing they're supposed to be good at doing, then maybe we need to take a step back and start questioning if the whole damage system is busted.

Yes , which is why I think it's stupid , taking away the whole point of a weapon class to exist makes the design decision shortsighted at best and incompetent at worst.

4 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

i've used mesa too but her 4th ability do only a pixel of damage on his life bar once his shield is down... and it's a quick attack like you've recomanded

put i didn't pay attention to the resistance of the lich and of course i talk about a level 5 lich (i've not tried sister for now)

You need to attack in bursts , imagine they have a rank 5 adapation (a little different from sentients but similar) with 10 second cooldown.

The DR is actually multilevel ,

Adaptation , shield resistance , Armor , damage cap, elemental resistance.

and depending on your sister/ lich they may have another ability that adds DR (like warding halo that takes your incoming damage into more DR or healing wave that can negate all your damage done if it's not quick enough) 

I suggest to run a squad with atleast some debuffing capability to mitigate all those levels of DR.

[Thaxano]

il y a 1 minute, TomCruisesSon a dit :

I use a high strength Gloom Chroma so I'm healing while dishing out damage and essentially stops enemies from moving in range

That's the tricky part, give them time to let the DR timer reset, but gotta be quick enough before their shield kicks in. I honestly like this interaction, but sisters will definitely get nerfed post tennocon

ho i see, i was hyped about the ability transfer from the helminth but i end up finding it more like unnatural so i'm not really a connoisseur about the mixed up ability but it's good to know
i'll check the strategy later today

[Thaxano]

il y a 4 minutes, 0_The_F00l a dit :

Yes , which is why I think it's stupid , taking away the whole point of a weapon class to exist makes the design decision shortsighted at best and incompetent at worst.

You need to attack in bursts , imagine they have a rank 5 adapation (a little different from sentients but similar) with 10 second cooldown.

The DR is actually multilevel ,

Adaptation , shield resistance , Armor , damage cap, elemental resistance.

and depending on your sister/ lich they may have another ability that adds DR (like warding halo that takes your incoming damage into more DR or healing wave that can negate all your damage done if it's not quick enough) 

I suggest to run a squad with atleast some debuffing capability to mitigate all those levels of DR.

could the DR involved by the 4th ability of mesa be powerful enough to cancel the benefit of the armor striping of nyx's second ability? It might explain why i didn't seen any change while using it

[0_The_F00l]

13 minutes ago, Thaxano said:

could the DR involved by the 4th ability of mesa be powerful enough to cancel the benefit of the armor striping of nyx's second ability? It might explain why i didn't seen any change while using it

Could be , depends on the element on your peacemakers and the elemental resistance (don't forget corpus health has its own modifiers)

[Thaxano]

il y a 1 minute, 0_The_F00l a dit :

Could be , depends on the element on your peacemakers and the elemental resistance (don't forget corpus health has its own modifiers)

it was on a lich i didn't fight any sister for now but ok i'll give another try to nyx