It's time to nerf Wukong

[Awazx]

En 13/5/2022 a las 4:40, DragonManipulator372 dijo:

I meant from the general Warframe community, not the internet as a whole. The most outspoken opinions of Wukong I get when I tell people I use him tend to be negative.

That's called "confirmation bias." Actually, most people love and enjoy Wukong just the way it is. It is you and you alone who look to the opinions of others to confirm your own opinion of Wukong.

I, for example, love Wukong and I think it's one of the best things DE has done in a long time.

Wukong isn't too good, it's just that the other frames are pretty bad.

[DroopingPuppy]

The only problem on Wukong is he is pretty good at abuse to afk, and overpowered AOE primary weapons. Other than that, Wukong is not that broken. Also remember that 'overpowered AOE primary weapons' are not exclusive for Wukong either.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-06-09 at 5:06 AM, NezuHimeSama said:

Wait, what even is the issue with Wukong? I mean, it's an easy, lazy frame for noobs to play and not die easily, but how is that hurting anyone? Is this just a topic for children to troll on wukong mains?

In case it wasn't Obvious... OP is Trolling.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On 2022-06-10 at 3:50 AM, CrownOfShadows said:

but he's also dancing at the exit waiting for everyone who isn't wukong.

Not in My Experience....

I Run my Frames With Parkour Stat Sticks and I can Keep Up With Wukong on Every Tile Set except Gas City just Fine....

Titania is Significantly faster than He Is...

On 2022-06-10 at 3:50 AM, CrownOfShadows said:

As a result he never gives anyone a chance to shine or do their things: everyone is just chasing wukong the whole time, and at the end people find themselves wondering - why didn't that guy just play solo, he doesn't need any of us.

You say that as if There's anything else to do in a Capture Fissure...🤔

On 2022-06-10 at 3:50 AM, CrownOfShadows said:

 

There's a lot of fast frames. Gauss is fast too

Not Really....

I mean yeah sure... Gauss having The Highest Base Sprint Speed does indeed make him Fast but if you think he's fast because Of Mach Rush then I disagree.... 

Mach Rush doesn't allow you to make Sharp Turns or High Leaps..... It's only Fast if you have enough Open Space.... Which is Why I had no Issues Subsuming it Off for Vial Rush instead.... It's Slower in Straight Line but you can navigate Turns Faster with Vial Rush....

On 2022-06-10 at 3:50 AM, CrownOfShadows said:

Volt and Titania are fast too, but they don't nuke as well, and volt in particular actually speeds other people up, so that helps the team stay with him.

For Fissures They Nuke Well Enough.... Especially Titania with Subsumed Thermal Sunder....

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2022-06-12 at 11:44 AM, Awazx said:

Wukong isn't too good, it's just that the other frames are pretty bad.

I shall slap you with the glove I remove from mine own hand, sir, and expect to see you at dawn for a duel to the death with pistols.

I must defend my Zephyr's honour and pride of place as one of the current highly ranked frames in the game.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I shall slap you with the glove I remove from mine own hand, sir, and expect to see you at dawn for a duel to the death with pistols.

I must defend my Zephyr's honour and pride of place as one of the current highly ranked frames in the game.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

i'm too lazy to check if i commented on this thread before so i'll just say it

Limbo should be banned from the game and introduce a new interdimensional Hopper or a multiverse jumper Warframe with emphasis on different Variants, Phasing/intangibility and many worlds theory.

[NIKU_GAMI]

stop

[Awazx]

hace 11 horas, Birdframe_Prime dijo:

I shall slap you with the glove I remove from mine own hand, sir, and expect to see you at dawn for a duel to the death with pistols.

I must defend my Zephyr's honour and pride of place as one of the current highly ranked frames in the game.

It won't be necessary. To be fair, he didn't think of Zhepyr when he spoke of "other frames". His honor has not been sullied.

[AegidiusF]

Just have fun and let others have fun.

"A big pillar of Warframe is let players do what they will (Pablo) Yeah, that’s right. (Steve). But we also don’t want it to be too crazy".(Pablo on Devstream 162).

If people want to play Wukong on public squads, let them do. If you don't like to be on random squads (perhaps with a Wukong on it), stay away from public matchmaking.

All you said about Wukong could also be said about many other frames. Some exemples : Banshee, Xaku, Ember, Volt, Saryn... all these frames can "destroy" your squad mates ein game xperience, depending on the way you play them. If you're going to ban these frames too, public squads will become even worse.

The overuse problem is only for Wukong Prime (Normal Wukong is less used than Normal Rhino). As Wukong Prime will be on the next Prime Vault, his use rate will perhaps increase. It's very hard to know why so many players (mostly between MR5 and MR20) are using Wukong. Numbers are just numbers and without a qualitative survey, we cannont really know the reason of this overuse. The Devs have more information about it and perhaps they will find a better solution.

 

Le 13/05/2022 à 10:36, (NSW)Vampire_Mika a dit :

as a Fomor wukong player, i think what mainly would fix his "Abuse" is making AoE have heavy falloff but good stunning abilities, so it becomes more CC and less AOE nuke

something like this:

AoE is not the problem. AoE are not even the most played weapons in Warframe : the multitarget weapons, more precisely are the more played weapons. And this is not a cause : it's an effect. In a farming/grindig game all means of killing the more mobs to get more resources on the small amount of time possible are the more used. The only way to reduce AoE use (and some ability spamming also) is to reduce grind/farm. You can change everything you want on AoE weapons, this will change nothing.

 

[Spe_de_mix]

If DE wanted to nerf Wukong, I suppose they could always just slow down the Cloud Walker. It should help with the whole "everybody's playing catch-up with Wukongs". You'd still have the ability to pass through lasers and float in whichever direction you wanted. But at least you wouldn't have to wait at the extraction zone forever while the other frames parkour their way to you the old-fashioned way.

They could also reduce the amount of healing it does since Wukongs always build lot of Ability Strength so you'd have to move around in the Cloud Walker a lot more to heal yourself up; even with 1000 health I find myself to be able to heal myself to max in under a second of sailing. That way using Cloud Walker in the middle of a battle would be bit more of an opportunity cost.

Personally I don't see a problem with the Celestial Twin apart from some of the weirdness surrounding the weapon choices (especially in Sortie with limited weapon choices). He doesn't have CC so extra distraction kinda balances it out.

 

With those tweaks the playstyle would remain essentially the same but it'd lessen some of the aggravation people have with him in public matches. Thus no need to ban. 😇

[Jimmuhboy]

6 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

AoE is not the problem. AoE is not even the most played weapons in Warframe : the multitarget weapons, more precisely are the more played weapons. And this is not a cause : it's an effect. In a farming/grindig game all means of killing the more mobs to get more resources on the small amount of time possible are the more used. The only way to reduce AoE use (and some ability spamming also) is to reduce grind/farm. You can change everything you want on AoE weapons, this will change nothing.

I don't know about that. The problem is that there aren't fairly common enemies that offer big rewards but are harder to kill, which would make high damage single target weapons just as good as AoE (or multitarget, in this case they serve the same function) weapons for farming, which would also make having a balanced weapon selection more meaningful. With the Eximus rework DE has sort of moved in this direction, but for the most part they still aren't durable enough to not just blow them away with AoE weapons in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe all Eximus units need a certain amount of scaling AoE damage reduction and their rewards/affinity dropped boosted a bit more to really add some proper gameplay variety.

Action RPGs usually have tons of farming in them, but they also usually have elite enemies that drop the really good stuff but are also very dangerous and hard to kill, so that you're gonna want to have a balance between AoE and single target damage options. Warframe for the most part only has loads of very easy to kill enemies that generally have similar rewards as the few slightly more challenging enemies in the game, so all AoE is just typically going to be someone's go too, not because the game is about farming, but because the game lacks proper elite enemies.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

Zoom and boom/Wukong+Zarr meta complaints are overblown.

I find the twin more helpful with a beam weapon. (have the phantasma in my loadout slot).

Cloud walker can be good but I don't find myself outrunning players much using it. (suggesting there is some skill involved like everything)

I would say the issue is that much of the farming in the game puts high MR OP players with low MR starter players. (although necessary to get people in a pub mission)

I run into more issues trying to run lith/meso relics and the mission being mostly over by the time I load in. Then the players rushing to extraction instead of trying to let me build traces on my way to extract. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, Awazx said:

His

Don't. Make. Me. Slap. Without. The. Glove. [Shakey fist emoji]

[AegidiusF]

Il y a 4 heures, Jimmuhboy a dit :

With the Eximus rework DE has sort of moved in this direction, but for the most part they still aren't durable enough to not just blow them away with AoE weapons in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe all Eximus units need a certain amount of scaling AoE damage reduction and their rewards/affinity dropped boosted a bit more to really add some proper gameplay variety.

I've really appreciated the new Eximus, but I really think they are limitating the options we have for weapons : the AoE "Meta" and the frames "Meta"  (like Wukong, Mesa...) are even more "Meta" than before. The new Eximus had almost no impact on the current "Meta", while the other frames and weapons are less effective (especially the CC based frames, like Limbo)

[George_PPS]

That Wukong being popular among new players is a true testiment of the super successful rework. He can serve as a model to buff other frames, not nerfing! 

Also Wukong is a generalist and not good at any boss fights in general. He should be given some buffs so he can do Eidolon hunting too! 

[GREF_TM]

On 2022-05-13 at 3:17 PM, DragonManipulator372 said:

Disclaimer: I am a Wukong main.

 

Either that, or Uncle Ruckus needs to log in with his main account.

 

Seriously though, this is a mountain from a molehill type of situation. Wukong doesn't make the game 'worse' for anyone, especially when compared to frame like saryn/mesa/octavia/etc. which under the right set of circumstances can borderline prevent other players from actually playing the game by murdering everything, Kong isn't even a top tier, it's just 'inaros but good'.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

? Ban the most popular warframe ?

yeah I'm sure that'll go over really well

really smart move to keep your playerbase happy, ban stuff they clearly like to use

 

[GREF_TM]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

really smart move to keep your playerbase happy, ban stuff they clearly like to use

 

Oh don't worry about it, you'll get one free forma!*

^*blueprint

[Nira]

Literally don't ever remember anyone complaining about Wukong whilst playing in a public squad, and let's face it with things like Arcane Energize and Magus Elevate you can solo the game with any frame these days 😋

[Wolfdoggie]

If people played Conclave you could kill a Wukong Player to obtain a Monkey Paw.

You could then use that Paw to make this wish, but I warn you; the consequences of such a wish may be dire.

But otherwise, banning specific frames from public games isn't going to happen.

[unknownerrors]

I play a Wukong main and do my dammest to keep 100% up time on roar(dropped ability 4 for roar) for my mates. with cloud walker I'll be the first to start resing you when your downed (while my twin watches our backs) it depends on whos playing, ANY frame can be played selfishly. thats why there is friend lists and ignore lists. 

[(PSN)M00n_Slippers]

I find it really freaking annoying that 1 in 5 people is playing Wukong at any given time, but I don't think there's a problem with Wukong himself, he's not super powerful or anything. Some people really enjoy him for reasons that baffle me, and other people are just...lazy?

Personally I think the best way to combat this is to make another frame that's even better at wukonging than wukong. Some people will remain loyal (re:lazy), while others will switch over. Then at least we'll have a little variety.

[Going_To_Alice]

On 2022-05-13 at 9:19 AM, DragonManipulator372 said:

Be that as it may, there's always a consistent complaint about Wukong; the other option is a nerf which many people will most likely not be happy with; Wukong doesn't need other players.

Wukong may not need other players, but you do realize bannin a specific frame just because a lot of people play doesn't seem a bright idea. Besides, lfg channels exist, if you want to play with people who don't pick Wukong.

[CrownOfShadows]

Yeah..... hm, yeah... you know what, wukong's a bit too good at bit too many things.

[Mag_Gaming]

Agreed, remove him from public along with banning every single person who uses bright energy colors (like pure white, pink,green etc.) on ogris/zarr/bramma.

Especially ogris.

It should be forced pure black.

 

Same could be said proboscis cernos as it so unoptimized it´s literally a lag machine and lowers your fps by 30.