It's time to nerf Wukong

[Numerikuu]

Looking forward to the Pull rework, especially if it's anything similar to Brozime's suggestions for it 👀

Grendel is defo powerful to a degree, but so damn clunky. The main thing I dislike about him is that his entire kit revolves around his 1. If you don't eat any enemies (which more than likely you'll struggle to in this goddamn AoE meta) his whole kit is rendered null. His 4--while fun--suffers like Merulina does. It's awful to use in most tile sets except open spaces/worlds. Some of his buffs are pretty meh too. Add on top how he's acquired--especially after the Eximus rework, ho boy--and he's really not worth the trouble imo.

As for Harrow being too complex, I'd have to completely disagree with that. He's a solid frame (though I wish you could cast his Condemn in the air without it forcing you to the ground like you could in the past though) and rewards skilful play, especially if you're going for head shots. Imo one of Pablo's magnum opus's. But like a lot of frames, he's rendered null unless he also caves in to the AoE meta and slaps on a Zarr/Ogris/Bramma etc to be able to keep up and utilise his abilities... or goes solo 😶

A shame about Chroma and Inaros--especially Inaros. Very, very few people use him for his abilities lmao. It's literally just for the HP... but even that is an outdated thing due to shieldgating. Inaros really has nothing going for him at this point.

Agreed about the Augment slot thing. I just wish that some augments were changed to something else entirely with their current stats just being innate on their respective abilities. The slow effect for Frost's 2 for example. Augments like that really should just be an innate thing.

I assume the new frame mechanic is to do with the Archon Crystals Reb talked about. Looking forward to what's in store on the next Devstream!

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Yeah I mean SP. His bubble holds well til about level 80. Then their damage outscales the bubble.

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

No, it doesn't. Please take some time to read about Frost on the wiki.

^This. If your bubble is struggling around lv80+ then you may want to work on your build.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

No, it doesn't. Please take some time to read about Frost on the wiki.

I didn't mean that literally. I know that the bubble absorbs damage. But it never seems to affect the final product enough to be insanely noticeable. His bubble equation needs to be buffed or made 100% clear because I've seen different posts saying different things about the bubble's equation. Plus you never know how much health is added to the bubble at the end.

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Most surprising frame usage: Loki.  Below average in breadth of usage, high in depth of usage. 110:00

• Better depth than Ivara, worse breadth of usage.
• (Basically, not everybody uses Loki, but some people use him a ton.)

 

I wonder if this might be partly because he ends up exceptionally simple. I have vanilla Loki with all the mods I want, including Hushed Invisibility and a Helminth, with no forma. I basically run him as an invisibility frame with a Helminth, so I'm running two timers at most. And silenced gunfire does make quite a difference for casual mission completion. (That might also contribute to some focus farming / weapon ranking, since the silenced gunfire makes it a tad easier to keep up stealth multipliers on ranged weapons.)

[Marvelous_A]

I care the most about one thing: is Radial Javelin going or not?

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

17 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Looking forward to the Pull rework, especially if it's anything similar to Brozime's suggestions for it 👀

Grendel is defo powerful to a degree, but so damn clunky. The main thing I dislike about him is that his entire kit revolves around his 1. If you don't eat any enemies (which more than likely you'll struggle to in this goddamn AoE meta) his whole kit is rendered null. His 4--while fun--suffers like Merulina does. It's awful to use in most tile sets except open spaces/worlds. Some of his buffs are pretty meh too. Add on top how he's acquired--especially after the Eximus rework, ho boy--and he's really not worth the trouble imo.

As for Harrow being too complex, I'd have to completely disagree with that. He's a solid frame (though I wish you could cast his Condemn in the air without it forcing you to the ground like you could in the past though) and rewards skilful play, especially if you're going for head shots. Imo one of Pablo's magnum opus's. But like a lot of frames, he's rendered null unless he also caves in to the AoE meta and slaps on a Zarr/Ogris/Bramma etc to be able to keep up and utilise his abilities... or goes solo 😶

A shame about Chroma and Inaros--especially Inaros. Very, very few people use him for his abilities lmao. It's literally just for the HP... but even that is an outdated thing due to shieldgating. Inaros really has nothing going for him at this point.

Agreed about the Augment slot thing. I just wish that some augments were changed to something else entirely with their current stats just being innate on their respective abilities. The slow effect for Frost's 2 for example. Augments like that really should just be an innate thing.

I assume the new frame mechanic is to do with the Archon Crystals Reb talked about. Looking forward to what's in store on the next Devstream!

^This. If your bubble is struggling around lv80+ then you may want to work on your build.

I meant with a crap build. My build which does its best to stay relevant at high level. Has 1000+ armor 255% strength, i then arcane tanker for 1200 more armor then warcry to double all that armor. I then cast hoping to gain more hp from damage intake.

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

I wonder if this might be partly because he ends up exceptionally simple. I have vanilla Loki with all the mods I want, including Hushed Invisibility and a Helminth, with no forma. I basically run him as an invisibility frame with a Helminth, so I'm running two timers at most. And silenced gunfire does make quite a difference for casual mission completion. (That might also contribute to some focus farming / weapon ranking, since the silenced gunfire makes it a tad easier to keep up stealth multipliers on ranged weapons.)

Invisibility makes up for a lot of ills.  And Loki's duration with it can get cheesy unlike Ash, and he isn't slow like Ivara.  And as for Octavia...well, he's not Octavia, thankfully.

That's a little reductive, because I do think his other abilities are cool, and I bet that plays a part in his usage.  There's just not enough there there, besides the cool factor.

[Tiltskillet]

6 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

I care the most about one thing: is Radial Javelin going or not?

He really didn't give any details at all about Excal or Volt that I recall.

[schilds]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

• • Pull will be awesome?? 48:00

I think it's "pool" as in Mag's energy pool will increase?

Actually, going back and listening to it you're probably right. He just draws out the "u" sound a bit.

[trst]

9 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

I care the most about one thing: is Radial Javelin going or not?

Considering they gave Mag the hold function on Magnetize due to her using it in the new intro I doubt they'll remove Javelin since Excal uses that in the intro too.

[GramGawain]

I don't mind the cloudwalker change too much, and Wukong is one of my two most used frames (and not for AFK'ing in missions), but changing the clone to melee only kinda sucks. I like focusing on melee and letting my clone blast aerial targets, cameras, and ranged turrets while I tear apart everything else. I actually despise having my Celestial Twin going melee cause all he winds up doing is rushing off after something, not reaching it at times, cause the instant teleport back to the player yoinks him away from a target and then he runs off after it again. I play solo alot, especially when grinding for resources cause doing it with others often leads to people extracting early on me which depending on the mission, yanks me out of the mission as well. Having the ranged backup without having to build Spectre's *Which I really don't like wasting resources on while still building weapons/frames/sentinels/etc* I hope DE rethinks the changes to Celestial Twin at the very least.

[Keiyadan]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Tiltskillet:

AoE:  would like to emphasize big moments rather than constant spam, especially with new weapons

could i get a time stamp to hear if for myself since it looks like to be i would need to listen to all that just to get an idea when

so i asking myself what are big moments
because for me "big moments" are most of the times flow stoppers by different means
i mean if i see something the first time it is fine but seeing it over and over will not be a big moment
 

[Tiltskillet]

5 minutes ago, Keiyadan said:

could i get a time stamp to hear if for myself since it looks like to be i would need to listen to all that just to get an idea when

so i asking myself what are big moments
because for me "big moments" are most of the times flow stoppers by different means
i mean if i see something the first time it is fine but seeing it over and over will not be a big moment
 

I didn't write down a time the first three items I wrote down, but it was the last of them.  So some time before 21:00.  I'll try to find it later tonight or tomorrow if you haven't already.

What I recall about the context is they were talking about things like Laetum, where you have to do some work to set up the explosive mode and can't run it full time once you do.  (As I understand it.  I don't any AoZ weapons yet.)

 

[Berzerkules]

8 hours ago, Numerikuu said:

Yeah, no 🤣

Did you watch the video? Even the creator says it's S***

That was a trash meme build that had no footage past 5 minutes and was no way sustainable. It required full strip from Caustic Strike, viral priming from Epitaph and Breach surge puts out the big numbers doing most of the work. Literally any frame with breach surge could do the exact same thing just priming viral with epitaph. Rumblers are still garbage.

[Tyreaus]

5 minutes ago, Keiyadan said:

could i get a time stamp to hear if for myself since it looks like to be i would need to listen to all that just to get an idea when

Timestamp starts around 15:10. It's a bit lengthy.

For a bit of a TL;DW: the context was surrounding things like the Laetum and how that has a bit of an ebb and flow to the gameplay. His ideal is to have those sorts of mechanics going forward, but does mention implementing that with existing AoE isn't so doable. Brings up Exalted weapons and their energy drain as a sort of example, and also other "hitches" in gameplay like the presence of Eximus or Nox units. So more of a global idea than just AoE, and more of a forward-design principle than an idea of what would change with existing stuff.

[Josh486]

thanks

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

MAG MAG MAG, So excited for maaag.

i hope they give us something new and exciting for her!!!

[KVenom]

Jeez, you completely miss the real issue. It's not even Wukong being good, it's about DE limiting non-AoE and non-selfBuff options. Like Controllers and single-target damage dealers. Buffing them would solve the whole monkey problem. It's time to stop bringing down Nerf hammer on all problems. DE needs tro learn that it's not the universal answer to all the game's issues.

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

i dislike the talk about how exalted weapons should be used in small amounts throughout the mission.

i like being able to use exalted weapons for the whole mission and would  probably stop using some frames if their exalted abilities had heavy cooldowns or massive energy usage.

i like being able to use them constantly and i would rather just use a frame like Garuda + a weapon i like over a time gated exalted weapon due to just being more consistent.

 

i also think augment slots need to be added at the moment, because there are waaay to many frames that have flat out useless abilities without their augments and some frames even need several augments just to make their base kit usable/good.

or make like half the augments just apart of the base ability.

 

[vanaukas]

Dude, thank you SO much for the info, today I've tried to watch the video but it was just impossible, I can't stand the host.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

The core of the game hasn't changed in many years (for better and for worse), what has changed is our access to ranged, high damage, large AoE weapons.

You do remember DE Added Steel Path, right ? 🤔

If you think you're going to Fend off 30 Enemies with 250% More Armor with just the Ignis Wraith then you and I are playing Different Games. 👀.

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

, Wukong is used the most because an AI can use a AoE launcher and he can quickly move through a level and spam large AoE death.

That's Fine.... I still have more Kills than Wukong so why is this an Issue exactly ? 🤔

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

Khora's entire kit revolves around her 1 being a ranged AoE attack. K Zarr can both reach higher range and damage than Khora's 1 while also being able to be equipped on any frame.

Duh.... DE Nerfed Whipclaw Remember.... 

 

[Keiyadan]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Tiltskillet:

I didn't write down a time the first three items I wrote down, but it was the last of them.  So some time before 21:00.  I'll try to find it later tonight or tomorrow if you haven't already.

What I recall about the context is they were talking about things like Laetum, where you have to do some work to set up the explosive mode and can't run it full time once you do.  (As I understand it.  I don't any AoZ weapons yet.)

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Tyreaus:

Timestamp starts around 15:10. It's a bit lengthy.

For a bit of a TL;DW: the context was surrounding things like the Laetum and how that has a bit of an ebb and flow to the gameplay. His ideal is to have those sorts of mechanics going forward, but does mention implementing that with existing AoE isn't so doable. Brings up Exalted weapons and their energy drain as a sort of example, and also other "hitches" in gameplay like the presence of Eximus or Nox units. So more of a global idea than just AoE, and more of a forward-design principle than an idea of what would change with existing stuff.

Thank you very mutch

[L3512]

3 hours ago, DrBorris said:

K Zarr can both reach higher range and damage than Khora's 1 while also being able to be equipped on any frame.

Blatantly wrong on K Zarr doing more damage than whipclaw, however it does enough damage for most content that most people play and as overkill is wasted it doesn't matter.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Something, or a class of things that is really neglected is going to be buffed next update. 

I listened to that part again, and the lead-in to it they were talking about underused weapon classes. Any theories about this? 

/fingers crossed for semi-auto rifles or thrown secondaries.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2022-08-04 at 7:28 AM, Dauggie said:

why bother, DE has been using this carrot and stick method for decade now. nerf something then slide some other OP thing.. then nerf that too after it has been a while. rinse and repeat.

That's not DE using a carrot and stick. That's the players talking and DE listening. How long have players been ranting about needing to nerf aoe weapons? DE checked the stats, debated about it and have now come uo with their solution to the problem the players WANTED fixing. Then, after the nerf, THE PLAYERS slide in a new meta....and then ask for THAT to get nerfed too. 

[L3512]

40 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

Dude, thank you SO much for the info, today I've tried to watch the video but it was just impossible, I can't stand the host.

Aye, I struggle through because he has good info sometimes but his channel really doesn't mesh with me personally.

 

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

I listened to that part again, and the lead-in to it they were talking about underused weapon classes. Any theories about this? 

/fingers crossed for semi-auto rifles or thrown secondaries.

Beam shotguns, from crazy to absurd. We had a taste of this power with the multishot multiplicative damage bug.