Should in-game chat-moderation rules be adjusted?

[Zimzala]

18 hours ago, (XBOX)DELTAOTTER8 said:

Here's a novel concept, the game is rated M (18+) , the profanity filter is intrusive, and the rights of players are dictated because of pandering to third wave feminist. Newsflash, the Woke community is in the poor house and won't bother spending money even if they were rich. 

Edit: Sorry about the tiny spurt of politics, but it had to be spoken.

That's just toxic masculinity flaring up, not politics, because as a very politically liberal person, I spend plenty and I also think the chat is moderated for kids in an M-Rated game, rather than for reasoning adults.

[Fluff_Dumpster]

Personally, if I were DE, I would actually have an 18+ content rating for users to voluntarily toggle that enables custom names on weapons and unfiltered chat (two separate toggles, one for each, would be wise). They could be a lot more harsh on those who don't use it and people would be opting in for an unfiltered experience, relieving them of the liability (actual hate speech not included, propagation of hate speech should included be due to it's interpretable definition). It's not fair to DE for users to force them to be anything but pg13, but this is the internet and people will do as they may. If you put in a roadblock, people will jump it; that's just how it is. It would be in everyone's best interest to make a platform with that in mind. 

[Fluff_Dumpster]

19 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Oh I understand why they're laughing, because whether or not you're familiar with the term being referenced, people are more familiar with the sexual act that this term sounds similar to.  I'm just saying that in my view this doesn't qualify as a censor bypass because it's its own legitimate thing.  Now would the DE mods consider this to be a censor bypass?  It's hard to say, as this is definitely in a grey area where I can see people reasonably saying it is, and I can also see people reasonably saying it isn't.  This is the kind of thing that I'd hazard a good mod team handles on a case-by-case basis, and ergo I think it's a bit hasty to light up the hypocrisy signal.

Now, if a player has a weapon they name Crumbguzzler, and it gets reported and action is taken against them, then I'd agree there's something worth talking about, but thus far I'm not aware of such a situation.

So this instance is ok? I named my helminth charger "spawn of my seed" and I got flagged. Talk about innocuous... Meanwhile, their name is literally one letter away from profanity gets a pass WHILE being on stream... that's not ok. This is why they need to create a system that only punishes blatant profanity, even they can't follow it otherwise. 

[Hypernaut1]

Ironically, chat moderation is what keeps chat mature. Being rated M (18+) has nothing to do with it. 

Slurs and innuendoes being allowed will not make chat seem like a place for adults. 

[Fluff_Dumpster]

On 2021-11-27 at 9:30 AM, LillyRaccune said:

I'm getting a certain vibe from these comments:

• Bots can't be trained to observe context, so the detection rules should stay the same.
• Zero-tolerance feels bad, but offending players deserve it 99% of the time.
• Some players think others are "overly sensitive" and chat doesn't need rules (I do not support this idea).
• Since Region and Relay chat are the place where Kickbot exists, there are already places available for uncensored speech.
• Freedom of speech refers to socially public and political forums, not controlled (membership) environments such as in-game chat. This isn't about freedom, it's about responsibility and accountability.

About Crumbguzzler, it appears the innuendo isn't a punishable offense.

Maybe a one-strike warning system for players with more than 1000 hours of play time? Or maybe the opportunity to appeal to the support team? There was the suggestion of hiring a human chat moderator, but I don't feel like Region Chat is worth the money.

This was meant to collect ideas and suggestions about the automated chat moderation system. It was not intended to be a personal debate. Let's keep it friendly and impersonal.

*** Sensitive individuals are not a majority. The only thing that makes someone sensitive is when they attempt to censor those who aren't as sensitive. I don't think anyone has ever advocated for a lawless chat. No one likes spam, no one likes calls to violence, no one likes blatant degradation of others, etc... It's really not as hard as people make it out to be. They just let their own biases get in the way of what should be considered hate speech and the like. If they can't define it, they shouldn't enforce it. If that requires that they make a pop up show up the first time you enter a "public" chat, so be it. 

*** Just because there are laws in the US to prevent the censorship of opinions, doesn't mean that they should be entirely ignored on a platform (though it is the right of DE to do as they see fit, as far as I'm concerned). Though, It reads as lazy activism to me. It should be the goal on any platform while maintaining civility. To date, it's the most objective and fair way to give people as much freedom of expression to anyone regardless of their affiliations and opinions.

*** One name down I guess? I posted about my name for my helminth "spawn of my seed" being revoked, that's far more innocuous. They're inconsistent, period. They have work to do internally at least. 

[Zimzala]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ironically, chat moderation is what keeps chat mature. Being rated M (18+) has nothing to do with it. 

Slurs and innuendoes being allowed will not make chat seem like a place for adults. 

I am all for hate speech and racial slurs getting axed, but there are better methods than (near)perma-bans for the innuendo and 'adult' language, IMO.

DE has chosen to moderate chat as if a southern Baptist church-lady has to read it all out loud to Sunday schools kids or something.

It really is 'just too much', IMO...it is literally the only GaaS chat system I pretty much refuse to use because of the immature moderation.

Mature includes the ability to filter the difference between innuendo, humor, and hate speech.

[TheLexiConArtist]

Ingame chat is one thing, but the Twitch chat moderation during streams is ten times worse. I lose most of my messages to magical mystery offense, either when the automod picks it up and, as far as I can tell, the folks with the swords just auto-remove anything it catches without review, or outright being non-posted due to 'conflicts with the channel moderation settings'.

The worst I've done in there is say the Steel Path modifiers are 'dumb' and once used the terribly mild British insult of 'pillock', which has about as much implied edge to cut with as 'buffoon'. Perish the thought we let such horrendous behaviour scroll out of sight within the typical 0.05 seconds.

 

That aside, I've been shadowbanned in region a few times as well, for similarly mysterious causes. When you tend to be verbose and have a decent vocabulary, I suppose the odds aren't in your favour that you won't have something in there trigger the almighty AI.. which in this case is more acronym for artificial idiocy, than artificial intelligence.

My opinion? Public discourse cannot be obliged to sanitise itself for all personal circumstance. I might not want anything I say to offend, but we use the verb 'take' for a reason in regards to it; someone still can, and probably will, get upset by pretty much anything, it's a fool's errand to try to prevent that.
 

As far as 'words having power' goes - even if words can constitute a 'weapon', it's still not a knife's agency whether it cuts vegetables or fellow man.
To jump into someone's knife while they're trying to make dinner is neither their fault nor that of their implement.

[(PSN)Unstar]

19 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

21 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Oh I understand why they're laughing, because whether or not you're familiar with the term being referenced, people are more familiar with the sexual act that this term sounds similar to.

really? You think it's another term and the association is incidental? lol I got a plot in the everglades to sell you, then.

It makes me sad when people say I'm saying things I didn't say.  No, I don't think it's incidental.  I'd imagine that the term crumbguzzler was originally birthed due to it being similar to sexual term we're all dancing around.

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 hour ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

I named my helminth charger "spawn of my seed" and I got flagged.

I don't see the problem here, I would have reported this name as well.  Regardless, you are comparing apples and oranges.

[Fluff_Dumpster]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I don't see the problem here, I would have reported this name as well.  Regardless, you are comparing apples and oranges.

W-what? You realize how a charger is made, right? He's literally spawn of my seed (the cyst). It's like calling him my child... Yet you think C*mGuzzler is ok? I can't even do the mental gymnastics to see from your POV, in all honesty.

(I'm actually going to add a bit to this...) Apples to oranges... These are both names that involve the implication of the same reproductive fluid, except one uses an innocuous word and one uses (what would be) a 'repulsive' word that gets pronounced nearly exactly the same via adding one letter... This is about as apple to apple as we're going to get in this thread. 

[IIX_Vritrayan]

On 2021-11-27 at 5:44 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

if you keep to these rules, you'll never find yourself being targeted by Kickbot:

- don't be toxic, duh. if someone is being an a$$ towards you, move on, plenty of squads out there.

- don't discuss societal issues like LGBT/political/religion based stuff. there's a time and a place for this stuff, and warframe isn't it. if you want to talk about what's wrong with the world on other platforms, go right ahead, but 9/10 times even if the topic is brought up in a mature manner (very rare), someone else will chime in and all hell will break loose. we're here to slaughter virtual enemeis as fashionable space ninjas: this is our escapism, let us enjoy it.

- don't post something you think *might* be edgy/inappropriate, because guess what, it probably is. if your gut is telling you something, it's usually right, and it doesn't hurt to think one more time about what you're posting.

that's it. I've never had a chat suspension even once, and I've still been able to talk and laugh with friends and communicate with squad members effectively.

I was gonna jive in to these "adjusted" rule changes, but robotwars pretty much summed up what I want to say.

Very few people in the world are inherently toxic, and triggering someone's toxic side is due to both party's faults. You might've said something that made the toxic person lash out, I refuse to believe a toxic comment from someone stems from randomness. They must've seen something in chat that caused them to react this way. 

Either way WF's public chat is probably the most civil I've seen from any game I've ever played, and I prefer it to stay this way. It keeps the chat strictly game-related and civilized, and a PUBLIC GAME CHAT should stay this way. We all play WF to enjoy, play, and talk about the game, not discuss political matters or controversial matters. If you want to do that do it in a private chat.

As I said it's a public game chat, there should be inherent rules in it because it's so easy for a public chat to go way out of control.

 

EDIT: As for words that are blurted out accidentally, due to maybe jokes or for fun, and was not actually directed at anyone. I don't think an instant suspension is the way, I think an instant bot warning should be implemented on the first offense. Then if they keep doing it, then suspend them. 

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

 

It really is 'just too much', IMO...it is literally the only GaaS chat system I pretty much refuse to use because of the immature moderation.

Mature includes the ability to filter the difference between innuendo, humor, and hate speech.

lf moderation is preventing people that don't like moderation from using chat, it's literally doing it's job. 

It's not really that hard to use chat without getting banned. If someone needs to ride the edge of the chat filter to communicate, nothing of value is being lossed.

[Zimzala]

15 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

lf moderation is preventing people that don't like moderation from using chat, it's literally doing it's job. 

It's not really that hard to use chat without getting banned. If someone needs to ride the edge of the chat filter to communicate, nothing of value is being lossed.

It's not a matter of 'ride the edge of the chat filter to communicate', it is a matter of one person judging the value of discourse from another person that lives in an entirely different society over words.

If someone is being hateful or stalking, etc., sure, ban hammer. 

Being (auto-)banned for using innuendo, adult banter without hate that happens to imply sex, and the like, makes the M-Rated game a G-rated game.

It boils down to one single view of what is 'acceptable language' and IME, in the history that I read, that never ends well.

This is all done to keep the Karens of the world from complaining because they cannot be bothered to take care of their own kids, IME, and I am sick of having to censor myself on so many levels because some idiot is worried their child will ask them a hard question.

The DE chat moderation is simply another form of conservative outlook forced on others through a corporate front, I am fully aware of it, to stay in business this is the choice they think they have to make.

So in the end, I don't blame DE for the moderation, they are just doing what they can to stay in business, and the rest of us have to endure the uptight rules that people who fear the world claim we need...in a video game chat...or 'the children' will suffer.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

It's not a matter of 'riding the chat filter to communicate', it is a matter of one person judging the value of discourse from another person that lives in an entirely different society over words.

If someone is being hateful or stalking, etc., sure, ban hammer. 

Being (auto-)banned for using innuendo, adult banter without hate that happens to imply sex, and the like, makes the M-Rated game a G-rated game.

It boils down to one single view of what is 'acceptable language' and IME, in the history that I read, that never ends well.

This is all done to keep the Karens of the world from complaining because they cannot be bothered to take care of their own kids, IME, and I am sick of having to censor myself on so many levels because some idiot is worried their child will ask them a hard question.

The DE chat moderation is simply another form of conservative outlook forced on others through a corporate front, I am fully aware of it, to stay in business this is the choice they think they have to make.

So in the end, I don't blame DE for the moderation, they are just doing what they can to stay in business, and the rest of us have to endure the uptight rules that people who fear the world claim we need...in a video game chat...or 'the children' will suffer.

We all know that a majority of users that need to use innuendo and adult banter aren't going to use it to make adult jokes and innuendo. 

Don't blame chat moderation, blame the people that can't help themselves but ruin it for everyone else. 

I'm ok with adult language. That's not the problem. It's those people that turn adult humor from something funny and edgy into something crass and tasteless. That's the opposite of a mature looking chat.

It has nothing to do with being a "Karen". It's the racist and bigots that need to be held accountable. That's why we can't have nice things. A funny adult joke here and there soon becomes racist, homophobic, misogynistic, rantings by people who don't know when to stop. Inserting their thoughts at every chance.

 

[Fluff_Dumpster]

7 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

We all know that a majority of users that need to use innuendo and adult banter aren't going to use it to make adult jokes and innuendo. 

Don't blame chat moderation, blame the people that can't help themselves but ruin it for everyone else. 

I'm ok with adult language. That's not the problem. It's those people that turn adult humor from something funny and edgy into something crass and tasteless. That's the opposite of a mature looking chat.

It had nothing to do about being a "Karen" 

 

*** I agree with this entirely with the exception that it is a little bit about being a Karen... There's still an ignore button, so caring beyond ignoring someone who's being annoying and immature is what I would consider the Karen of the internet. Obviously DE gets the liberty of choosing how involved they want to be in their own moderation, but to act like the user has no control is stupid. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

49 minutes ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

He's literally spawn of my seed (the cyst). It's like calling him my child

You've shown later in your post that you know what "my seed" means; if you want to believe that your wording makes it innocuous, that's a choice you can make, but I would hope that you would understand that not everyone is going to feel the same.  For my money, I don't care which of the many synonyms you used, if you're invoking that concept, you're invoking that concept.

55 minutes ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

Yet you think C*mGuzzler is ok?

Nope, I don't think that's okay.  It makes me sad when people put words in my mouth.

1 hour ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

Apples to oranges... These are both names that involve the implication of the same reproductive fluid, except one uses an innocuous word and one uses (what would be) a 'repulsive' word that gets pronounced nearly exactly the same via adding one letter

Mistakenly or no, this is a misrepresentation of these two issues.  When you were flagged, there was no implication; you explicitly invoked said fluid.

Meanwhile, the other term sounds kinda like something dirty without actually being the thing.  It's okay to guzzle crumbs, just as it's okay to masticate meat.

Apples and oranges.

[Fluff_Dumpster]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

You've shown later in your post that you know what "my seed" means; if you want to believe that your wording makes it innocuous, that's a choice you can make, but I would hope that you would understand that not everyone is going to feel the same.  For my money, I don't care which of the many synonyms you used, if you're invoking that concept, you're invoking that concept.

Nope, I don't think that's okay.  It makes me sad when people put words in my mouth.

Mistakenly or no, this is a misrepresentation of these two issues.  When you were flagged, there was no implication; you explicitly invoked said fluid.

Meanwhile, the other term sounds kinda like something dirty without actually being the thing.  It's okay to guzzle crumbs, just as it's okay to masticate meat.

Apples and oranges.

*** You can google the definition of "seed" and it will show as the second usage for the word, yes. Generally speaking it's very infrequently used and you should also note that it is not referred to as "vulgar slang," unlike it's counterpart that's being debated. So it means the same thing without being vulgar, yet it is not allowed. So if we're not allowing the reference or implication of seminal fluid, It might be wise to... not use the vulgar term on a stream, perhaps? 

*** So you don't think it's ok... But it's more ok than the use of the word "seed" in a context that implies a lesser used definition of the word... Maybe we should block the word seed from being used in naming conventions to keep this from happening then, maybe crumb while we're at it. 
*** This is your opinion. Like I also said, I named him that due to him being of my own cyst. My etymology was deliberately non-vulgar, but it was assumed to be. You're the one who jumped to the conclusion as well as those moderating DE over a word that has only ever been used in a non-vulgar way. 
*** I think you're beyond bias. You've likely dug a hole you're willing to die in... If you can name one secondary that is even capable of "guzzling crumbs" on warframe, I'll fold. I'll spare you the wiki, I pre-fact checked. There is no secondary with a vacuum ability. At least I had the decency to make a joke and not just a blatant, unfunny innuendo. I don't personally believe that DE should need to censor things like this, but if the argument is being made that mine was a valid misuse of the utility, then this absolutely is.

[DarknessNightshade]

I don't usually comment on moderation as usually it's against the rules to discuss it anywhere but in a support ticket, however, I do feel like something needs to change.

I've had Region Chat disabled for several months now because of the countless stories I've heard of people being banned for things that don't break the rules, while these people are strangers and I have no real ability to trust what they say is true, the number of reports says to me either that the chat is filled with people who are constantly breaking the rules, or that the (manual) moderation could do with being a bit more lenient.

I'd like to imagine that a chat such as Region would serve more as a friendly chat room, however, whenever I decide to take a peek in there, there is always at least a few people posting the offensive Nezha comment because they think it's funny (which it isn't), in a "Zero-Tolerance" approach to that behaviour, it makes sense why the rules would be so strict and so much attention placed on the chat in that case. 1 - 0 for moderation.

However, if the common thing to do is disable such a chat for fear of being banned, why would the chat exist? Do the amount of people using it quanitify its existence? Without a region chat there'd be less to moderate and less strain on DE staff, etc, yet it's still there.

As for OP's example, there have been several moments of "inappropriate comments" from DE staff on their livestreams, being so strict while promoting this behaviour seems a tad one-sided. Adding fuel to the fire of "do as I say not as I do", further egging on people to end up banned from the Zero-Tolerance rules.

Meanwhile, with the current age rating of the game sitting at the "M/Mature" rating on the official website, adult comments and situations would come under that. In the UK, the game has a PEGI rating of 18+, so mature subjects and adult situations are definitely allowed here.

Keeping in mind, age ratings are usually not legally enforcable with parent's permission, so there's probably also a decent chunk of players who are underage, as with any free-to-play game it's easy for kids to access it,  although keeping the chat SFW only goes so far when the in-game content can be suggestive at times. 

So, with those technicalities in mind, it boils down to the personal preference of the developers and the DE staff, which, as a company, what they say goes. If the aim is to be more inclusive of everyone, the rules would be justified in that light.

 

 

[(PSN)Unstar]

35 minutes ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

My etymology was deliberately non-vulgar

I have one genuine question for you: do you actually believe that it's non-vulgar to speak of your reproductive fluids to strangers?  Because if so I think your understanding of vulgarity is going to be at odds with most other people's.

[Fluff_Dumpster]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I have one genuine question for you: do you actually believe that it's non-vulgar to speak of your reproductive fluids to strangers?  Because if so I think your understanding of vulgarity is going to be at odds with most other people's.

I believe that the word "seed" is a non-vulgar word that is used to refer to a man's reproductive fluids. I think that regardless of the platform it is brought up, it is non-vulgar. If you want to discuss how appropriate it is, i'd discuss that. However, you will lose when comparing it to the topic at hand being "crumbguzzling," I can assure you. I mean what I say and nothing beyond what I say. I would not hold anyone accountable for interpreting subtleties or implications. Like I said, my etymology is deliberate. 

[LillyRaccune]

This weapon naming thing is clearly volatile. Almost everyone agrees that DE's weapon name was inflammatory. I suggest you guys/gals/non-binaries just put each other in mute. I think the priority is that players' opinions can differ in what constitutes content that is inappropriate (like how some people get really upset over the word "moist").

I just wanted to gather suggestions and ideas about potential ways DE could moderate without false-positives causing bans and not come out looking hypocritical.

Spoiler

And as a separate topic for a separate thread: I believe 'seed' is an acceptable term to refer to one's progeny. I can see how others would misunderstand its meaning under a vulgar context.

Reason: the bible's use of the expression "seed=progeny" is well documented.

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

I believe that the word "seed" is a non-vulgar word that is used to refer to a man's reproductive fluids.

In other words, a non-vulgar word that has a vulgar use.

[Numerikuu]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

lf moderation is preventing people that don't like moderation from using chat, it's literally doing it's job. 

It's not really that hard to use chat without getting banned. If someone needs to ride the edge of the chat filter to communicate, nothing of value is being lossed.

🤣👌

Spoiler

To be fair to the chat mod, it was a prank on their end and no harm was done since it was only for a few minutes. Gave me a good chuckle lol.

 

[_R_o_g_u_e_]

On 2021-11-27 at 12:21 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

For me being gay it is a little weird that if I say the word gay I get a chat suspension. I understand the reasoning, I just don't AGREE with it. And that doesn't mean I have resentment about it per say, I just feel weird about it. The reasoning is that most of the time it is used in an immature way to demean people or insult gay people. I get that. But it DOES still feel weird to me as a gay guy that there is no context applied and if I was an unknowing gay Tenno in region chat who was naive and new to the game I would get suspended from chat with little to no explanation because someone tricked me into saying "I'm gay". 

I'm not exactly very comfortable with that. I think in an effort to make things a safe space for minorities like me, they sometimes overly restrict us at the same time without realizing it, which makes it the opposite of a safe space (how safe do you feel if you were gay, for instance, new to the game, and someone tricks you in region chat into saying "im gay" and the next thing you know YOU are the one suspended? What kind of safe space is that?) . Speech restrictions can be a double edged sword...

Banning the word gay, makes it a dirty word. I hate that. I hate that very much.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

On 2021-11-27 at 3:36 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

I think there are a lot of things that could be improved. 

Contextual filters and bot algorithms could be made more complex. And in some cases I have heard of, zero tolerance is a bit harsh.

For example, I heard of someone who usually says to his friend, hey "n word with the a at the end" and he accidentally posted it in the cetus hub instead of his friends chat. Permanent ban with no appeal. Some people who use the greeting with the a at the end are black themselves and it is cultural. Using their own vernacular can get them banned and who knows how many hundreds or thousands of hours thrown away with no appeal at all. 

I'm gay and I would get a chat suspension if I said "I'm gay" in chat. 

However, despite all these negatives, apart from maybe giving people ONE warning at least before a permanent suspension and improving algorithms, I think this is a particularly thorny issue because the only way to improve it beyond that is to have all human moderators.

But then you have one of two major issues:

1) You pay a ton of money to full time DE employees who have no previous relationship with players to avoid bias and to always have professionalism. With how many players Warframe has this is a load of paid employees and would be more than enough to cut into development funds in a significant way. 

2) Use volunteer moderators and we are back to the problems and drama that ultimately got the GOTL program permanently disbanded. 

Also, I do think that another issue that can be solved is consistency. 

I know they may not want to police themselves like this, but if you can't say it in the game chat, you shouldn't be able to say it in a devstream either. I really mean this in the kindest way, but the players should not be expected to hold themselves to a higher standard in game than the developers do while doing a development stream on their game that is live and recorded for posterity for all to see. 

And there are some seriously bad names slipping through the weapon naming filter, while some innocent ones like Cassowary are tripping the filter because it has "ass" in the middle. Also ass is censored in game weapon naming but I can say it on the forums. Again, inconsistent. 

The filters in general need a lot of fine tuning for being a bit overly picky, having pretty much no AI for context whatsoever, and weapon naming is way too easy to circumvent as opposed to chat and put some really racist stuff in there, as recent posts have suggested. 
 

Opinion: permanent bans should never not have an appeal process. 

If something is really that egregious fine. Appeal denied.

But to say theres no appeal at all is insane.

5 hours ago, Fluff_Dumpster said:

I believe that the word "seed" is a non-vulgar word that is used to refer to a man's reproductive fluids. I think that regardless of the platform it is brought up, it is non-vulgar. If you want to discuss how appropriate it is, i'd discuss that. However, you will lose when comparing it to the topic at hand being "crumbguzzling," I can assure you. I mean what I say and nothing beyond what I say. I would not hold anyone accountable for interpreting subtleties or implications. Like I said, my etymology is deliberate. 

I wonder if anyone has gotten a ban, permanent or otherwize, for linking a weapon named "crumbguzzler" or similar, or for typing it in chat.

On 2021-11-27 at 7:03 AM, SpicyDinosaur said:

Wanting to feel safe and not get assaulted by homophobia or racism or sexism etc. is not bull#%^. It's necessary to be able to step away from that and actually enjoy the game, something people that say it's bull$%$% can already do, and apparently don't want to bother accommodating others so they can, as well. Safe spaces aren't echo chambers because it is entirely possible to go back to all the negative stuff once your spoons have returned and you can manage it, and if you can't, then there is nothing negative about not wanting to wade into that sea of filth. 

Also, responding to what you responded to, as a bisexual neurodivergent woman, I do want a safe space, heck ,my entire clan and alliance are built around it. I don't really enjoy hearing slurs, and that includes the pejorative use of the word gay. It's gotten to the point it makes me wince reading or hearing it, because it is used as a slur so much. It took me like the last half of the 90s to convince my friends that, no, it was not okay to say as long as you weren't referring to someone's sexuality, and that it definitely was a slur if they used it to mean something sucked.

But that was the 90s, it seems like gamer culture never progressed beyond that, tbh. You think we'd find less hateful terms by now. Gamer culture is inherently toxic most of the time, though, so it's not really a surprise.

Gay is not inherently pejorative or derogatory, though. But the chat bots give zero F's and the actual mods may or may not ban you for it too. 

What do you think would happen if I said "my father doesnt approve of me being gay." In chat?