Bring back self damage !

[SpentCasings]

Just now, (NSW)Filgaia said:

Counter point: Nah, I'll stick with the stun. I do agree with AoE being out of control tho. I'd like to see more of a knockback For AoE projectiles exploding when too close (sort of like being sent flying if in the AoE but a lighter flinch if you're 10-15 meters away)

They are using mods that negate flinches with those "aoe spam builds" so its pointless. It didnt get really bad till the primed whats its face became a thing. 

[Berzerkules]

6 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

It's hardly a dead horse. In fact, it's more relevant than ever.

 

... and bring back self damage. As requested here. 😉

It's fn ded. They been beating it for like two years now.

What will bringing back self damage accomplish? Nothing, it would just switch the meta. Basic farms are against stupid low level enemies and we have so many ways to wipe the map. Just spam thermal sunder as you speed through a mission. The nerf Saryn threads would replace "bring back self damage" threads overnight. The only thing that's changed is the button they spam. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

No. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kontrollo]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

It's fn ded. They been beating it for like two years now.

What will bringing back self damage accomplish? Nothing, it would just switch the meta. Basic farms are against stupid low level enemies and we have so many ways to wipe the map. Just spam thermal sunder as you speed through a mission. The nerf Saryn threads would replace "bring back self damage" threads overnight. The only thing that's changed is the button they spam. 

What it will accomplish? Do you really have to ask that? Not shooting you feet with explosives being the best strategy, for one thing.

The rampant spam being another. It won't get rid of that, of course, but any reduction would be a plus in my book.

The game heavily rewards spam and "efficiency" to the detriment of actually making meaningful choices, both while in a mission and when picking your gear. And having many options is one of the cornerstones of this game after so many years. But they've been chipping away at that over time and replaced it with: SPAM.

Why pick a cool weapon you like when you can get to the end of a mission in one tenth of the time it'd take with the most braindead loadout possible? That's Warframe in 2022.

[Berzerkules]

15 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Why pick a cool weapon you like when you can get to the end of a mission in one tenth of the time it'd take with the most braindead loadout possible? That's Warframe in 2022.

Why pick a cool weapon like Proboscis Cernos to group enemies for melee when it would just one shot you. 

So glad self damage is gone and never coming back. 

 

[Zekkii]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

It's fn ded. They been beating it for like two years now.

What will bringing back self damage accomplish? Nothing, it would just switch the meta. Basic farms are against stupid low level enemies and we have so many ways to wipe the map. Just spam thermal sunder as you speed through a mission. The nerf Saryn threads would replace "bring back self damage" threads overnight. The only thing that's changed is the button they spam. 

They could also follow through and nerf Saryn.  I know players would just switch to the next best thing, but whatever it is, it's significantly more tolerable than what we have now.  Rome wasn't built in a day, but the Romans were willing to build it.

That said, I don't think self-damage is the solution.  Reducing the explosion radius of some launchers, enforcing line of sight restrictions, and/or reducing damage would be better while still keeping them relevant. You could even remove the self-stagger, it's only a punishment for players who haven't logged in for 400 days. 

[Berzerkules]

54 minutes ago, Zekkii said:

They could also follow through and nerf Saryn.  I know players would just switch to the next best thing, but whatever it is, it's significantly more tolerable than what we have now.  Rome wasn't built in a day, but the Romans were willing to build it.

That said, I don't think self-damage is the solution.  Reducing the explosion radius of some launchers, enforcing line of sight restrictions, and/or reducing damage would be better while still keeping them relevant. You could even remove the self-stagger, it's only a punishment for players who haven't logged in for 400 days. 

Or instead of nerfing everything maybe bring up the level of enemies we constantly play against. 

Why are we still running level 10 enemies to farm primes in lith fissures? We were running against those enemies with unmodded starter frames and weapons on day one. After thousands of hours of in game play time we're still fighting day one enemies to farm newly released stuff. That's the problem, it's not AoE weapons or nuke frames. 

DE can't nerf everything enough because the basic farms are against max lvl 50 enemies. Any nerf to an individual frame or set of weapons will not change the pub player experience. People will still wipe the map with little effort with the next best thing. 

[Tiltskillet]

8 hours ago, SpentCasings said:

They are using mods that negate flinches with those "aoe spam builds" so its pointless. It didnt get really bad till the primed whats its face became a thing. 

Assuming you're talking about Primed Sure Footed, it came out almost two years before AoE self stagger.

[makaloff95]

On 2021-11-27 at 7:21 AM, (PSN)Sifu_Purple_Wolf said:

I don't know how many cry  babies it took to get de to change this but self damage encouraged skill. If you really don't want to get hurt its called wall latch. this game is already super unrealistic like most games are in many examples day last for two hours and night last for 1 even though we are in the winter season and nights should last longer.... whatever its a "game" but please bring back self damage because now everyone uses aoe weapons they are too op and instead of nurfing them like I know they are going to, de can you please just bring back self damage to make the game more realistic and challenging, Thankyou.

yea how about no, explosive weapons are fun to use now (all types, not just the ones that are meta weapons). Before the change i didnt even touch anything explosive beacuse it would be almost suicidal to use it with the amount of mobs and stuff in the game, 1 wrong shot and you blew yourself up. This game was never realistic, never was and never will be, its a sci fi horde shooter, not CoD/BF/RB6.

Now incase someone thinks im using only meta weapons, i dont. Sure if i need to go into very high tier content i ofcourse bring it but for everyday use ill just bring whatever i find fancy (like a braton vandal for example).

[killerJoke66]

Ehh .. No.

[--END--Rikutatis]

I won't lie, I LOVED the risk reward gameplay of launchers back when self damage existed. People say no one used them, but I used my secura penta and other launchers a lot. The kuva bramma with self dmg and zero falloff was obscenely fun to play. You just needed to exercise a little more restraint instead of spamming the trigger button nonstop, and be more consciously aware of terrain and your teammates. It was a lot more engaging.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-03-11 at 2:43 PM, SpentCasings said:

They are using mods that negate flinches with those "aoe spam builds" so its pointless. It didnt get really bad till the primed whats its face became a thing. 

Firestorm and Fulmination...

22 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

The rampant spam being another. It won't get rid of that, of course, but any reduction would be a plus in my book.

There's a Difference between a Reduction and a Diversion....

This is Berserker's point....the Nerf is pointless because EVERBODY is going to flock to the Next Meta or The Previous One.... 

It's not going to get Reduced.. it's just going to Change Shape.

22 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

 

Why pick a cool weapon you like when you can get to the end of a mission in one tenth of the time it'd take with the most braindead loadout possible? That's Warframe in 2022.

I like The Kuva Zarr... 😭 !!!

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2021-11-27 at 6:21 AM, (PSN)Sifu_Purple_Wolf said:

can you please just bring back self damage to make the game more realistic and challenging,

[TARINunit9]

2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

the Nerf is pointless because EVERBODY is going to flock to the Next Meta or The Previous One.... 

On 2022-03-11 at 11:17 AM, Berzerkules said:

What will bringing back self damage accomplish? Nothing, it would just switch the meta.

In general (I'll get into the specifics in a second) this argument doesn't really work. If an existing meta is nerfed, yes players will gravitate to a new meta, but that doesn't mean the nerf was pointless. It means the developers got rid of a problem

As for the pros and cons of nerfing the explosive meta specifically? Self-damage is absolutely not the way you would go about it. Whenever DE nerfs something, the problem they're trying to tackle is thus: that three out of four Tenno in a squad don't feel like they are contributing. As an example, let's look at Old Ember, where an Ember with high movement speed could activate her 4, move faster than the other three players, and steal all the kills. First they tried nerfing the hell out of Ember's range, but this proved to just make Ember really unfun, so they reworked Ember into her new Meteor Storm attack.

 

So let's look at explosive weapons stealing all the kills. How do kill-stealers play with explosive weapons? They camp. Sit in one spot and shoot down hallways. Putting self-damage back on won't stop that, because they're camping. The only risk added to explosive weapon campers would be their own teammates jumping into their line of fire, which does nothing to stop the meta and just makes players angry at each other.

And speaking of...

5 hours ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

You just needed to exercise a little more restraint instead of spamming the trigger button nonstop, and be more consciously aware of terrain and your teammates. It was a lot more engaging.

"You need to be aware of your teammates" hold water in games like Left4Dead, where player positioning is a crucial skill you have to practice in order to set up lanes of fire, minimize risk, and prevent separation. But it's not a thing in Warframe where high mobility is king, lanes of fire don't matter, and players can separate as much as they want. What's more, in Left4Dead improper positioning would put both players in a bad state; but in Warframe, improper positioning would only hurt the shooter. 

Heck, the logic in general of self-damage being a risk/reward works in every game except Warframe. Splash damage has falloff in other games to make minor mistakes have less of an impact. If you miscalculate slightly, you lose a slight bit of health. In Warframe, self-damage was so ridiculously powerful the penalty was always the same: instant death. When a 1% mistake (being 29 meters away instead of 30) has the same penalty as a 100% mistake (unloading missile launchers at point blank) that system is not well-designed

[Varangian_af_Scaniae]

On 2021-12-04 at 4:18 PM, (PSN)Sifu_Purple_Wolf said:

and the reason is to make the game more realistic and skill based

Ahh come on, "realistic"!?! A space ninja game with frames controlled by a little kid?!?

"skill based" There is enough skill needed in Warframe, not every game must be Dark Souls.

[DarkSkysz]

IF they bring self dmg back (which will never happen, deal with it), the shots shouldnt colide with friend npc's like your pets, teammates or rescue targets.

[Josh486]

Honestly, most AOE is fine, it’s mostly the outliers(majority of progenitor explosive weapons) that need some fine tuning. Things like the Acceltra, Kuva Tonkor, or Trumna all promote variance in gameplay(Trumna), require you to hit direct hits to have consistent damage output(Tonkor), or are just Solid but don’t overtake standard options(Acceltra). Really if the Kuva Ogris, Bramma, Zarr, and Envoy didn’t exist I doubt we’d be having this conversation at all. The majority of AOE weapons are fine

[Berzerkules]

15 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

IF they bring self dmg back (which will never happen, deal with it), the shots shouldnt colide with friend npc's like your pets, teammates or rescue targets.

Or let it collide with teammates. If they don't have the situational awareness to gtfo my way while I'm spamming a bramma they deserve to die. 

[tel__arin]

Nah, self damage doesn't bring anything to the table in a game like this. you just make sure that viable weapon diversity decreases and new player give up on the game faster. 

[Quest]

Nah

[--END--Rikutatis]

7 hours ago, tel__arin said:

you just make sure that viable weapon diversity decreases

I would say it's quite the opposite. Right now weapon diversity is severely hurt because there's zero reason to use single target weapons when AoE launchers deal the same (or more) damage to single targets while also clearing an area of 7-10m or more. Before you had a choice: either use safer single target weapons, or risk yourself with AoE launchers for ppl who liked that self dmg style, or use lesser forms of AoE like beam weapons (amprex was very popular). Right now there's no choice. Stuff like kuva zarr is better than everything else, unless you're doing level cap disruption and killing lvl 10k demolishers. 

I don't think DE will ever bring self dmg back though, but I'm fairly certain sooner or later they'll try to nerf launchers somewhat. Like what they did to melee going through walls a while ago. That's the bare minimum. It just takes them 5 years or something ridiculous like that before they get around to balancing these things. People may say one shotting yourself with self dmg was over the top, and I agree, but honestly Warframe is an over the top game in every aspect. If you can press one button and stun lock and/or nuke the entire tileset, then I think one shotting yourself with self dmg launchers was also a fair compromise to that level of power. 

[Metalgearfox]

On 2021-11-27 at 1:21 AM, (PSN)Sifu_Purple_Wolf said:

 please bring back self damage

At this point, when I want to enjoy WF's gameplay I just play solo. Sometimes I'll play levels completely MGS stealth style, waiting on walls for enemies to path away before sneaking past or assassinating a target silently.

I don't know why people insist on shooting the ground with grenades that are hot pink and ultra saturated. How is that engaging? You aren't even looking at the enemies, you are just shooting the ground.

[killerJoke66]

On 2022-03-12 at 5:27 PM, --END--Rikutatis said:

I won't lie, I LOVED the risk reward gameplay of launchers back when self damage existed. People say no one used them, but I used my secura penta and other launchers a lot. The kuva bramma with self dmg and zero falloff was obscenely fun to play. You just needed to exercise a little more restraint instead of spamming the trigger button nonstop, and be more consciously aware of terrain and your teammates. It was a lot more engaging.

No you didnt need 'exercise' to use them , only people seriosuly using them were either did it for chroma or with zephr in endurance runs , also self damage desynergisez with the explosion range mod(s) since if you were to put them you couldnt use them from mild distance anymore so like i said people were using especially zarr with zephyr hanging on the air , preferably in old derelict big open room. 

I specifically wrote even which area people used it .

[Petergeist00]

On 2021-11-27 at 7:21 AM, (PSN)Sifu_Purple_Wolf said:

 self damage encouraged skill.

"Skill"? in this game? aight sure. self damaged was only abused my Chroma players to get immediately max stack buffs without waiting for the enemies to deal damage to them since enemies aren't a real threat, not even in steel path

[Vahenir]

Lets say they actually do bring self damage back. What would really change? Wouldn't people just go back to melee and abilities? Which are capable of nuking through enemies just as fast. So instead of someone going full bramma spammah they'd just use max range on a good melee and still take all the kills.

If you want to make single target weapons meta you need to nerf ALL AoE damage into the ground so hard that killing 20 enemies is faster with 20 headshots than with 20 shots from a rocket launcher. Abilities and melee also need to be nerfed into the ground damage wise, to the point where both practically become worthless.