This gameplay shown by Pablo doesn’t get me excited.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

This is like back in the Final Fantasy 11 days lol. 

"We need a bard for +20 haste!"

[(PSN)rexis12]

I'll never understand the community's obsession with having "Gameplay that isn't Warframe to break the monotony".

If you want to play something that isn't Warframe, play something that ISN'T Warframe instead of celebrating that a game mode completely devoid of the current mechanics are being added in.

Seeing the gameplay doesn't make me think "Oh boy I get to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay in Warframe". It makes me think "If I wanted to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay, I'd play those".

Hell, I'd settle for Let It Die for a similar power creeped free to play game.

It's just boring to me to see slow clunky gameplay, being heralded as "What Warframe needs!"

[vanaukas]

I want to try it, looks good as foundation but so was void sling... We still have the broken version that lacks velocity and precision and waiting for the fix to stop hitting stuff on the enviroment

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

The #1 takeaway is they created multiple ways to play the update. That was a brilliant move. They at least recognized some might want to simply play the Quest and move on directly to the Warframe Only Content.

Overall it looks fun. I really like the world design. Take it for what it is. And if you don't like it you've got the Warframe Only mode separately.

I'm looking forward to new content to play. If you just keep focusing on all the negatives, that's ultimately what you'll find. 

I'm open to it. Looks fun from what they've shown which really isn't all the much. Playable Stalker could be compelling so that's what my goal is to unlock first.

 

[bad4youLT]

9 hours ago, -Krism- said:

It's almost like we got 10 #*!%ing years of nothing but Warframe; DE knows they need to break the monotony or the game will never move forward

This content islands that don't contribute or expand core gameplay do more harm then good.

If I wanted to play something else then I wouldnt be playing Warframe or wanting more of core gameplay.

[CephalonCarnage]

This is not really a demo for Soulframe, more that it *is* soulframe - or at least the technology put in that the guys then figured would make a great game by itself. Unfortunately, they didn't take that tech and make the new game but had to leave it all in WF as well.

I think it is a mistake, don't get me wrong its going to be great for soulframe, but warframe should have more dev time spent on improving and enhancing the warframe experience. As Love is supposed to have said to Brian Wilson "don't f... with the formula". Soulframe is the place for this, I look forward to it too, but I'm not exactly hyped for Duviri (or the entire Drifter split timeline at all) as it looks way too much like the Kahl content island, but armed only with his machete and grenades.

[(PSN)rexis12]

11 minutes ago, bad4youLT said:

This content islands that don't contribute or expand core gameplay do more harm then good.

If I wanted to play something else then I wouldnt be playing Warframe or wanting more of core gameplay.

Imagine if suddenly TF2, after years, added a game mode where you just play like it's Hitman. It has nothing to do with the base gun play of the game, or even melee. But hey, it's something new and fresh amirite?

Or Fortnite's biggest new game mode is a Fighting Game, completely detached from the mechanics of it's movement and shooting.

It's just such a dumb argument.

 

Let me tell you, when I unlocked Railjack I wasn't blown out of my mind at the ship combat. It was cool, but then halfway through I realized that I didn't play Warframe for Railjack bs. If I wanted ship to ship dogfights, I'd play Ace Combat or hell War Thunder if I'm cheap enough.

If I'm so bored of Warframe that I want to play something else, I can play something else.

[CephalonCarnage]

24 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Let me tell you, when I unlocked Railjack I wasn't blown out of my mind at the ship combat. It was cool, but then halfway through I realized that I didn't play Warframe for Railjack bs

I like RJ, its still warframe though - you still are a warframe, and you can go into the base and do warframey things. Its about as non-warframe as putting on an archwing. Necramechs are worse that RJ for not being warframe, and they still count, to a point at least.

Playing as Kahl was too much removed though, and I think drifter will be much the same in feel.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Cram Duahcim said:

The #1 takeaway is they created multiple ways to play the update. That was a brilliant move. They at least recognized some might want to simply play the Quest and move on directly to the Warframe Only Content.

And I'm preemptively thankful for that.  I'm wondering what exclusives will be locked behind the different types of content though.  Until it launches, I doubt we'll know.

[(XBOX)AchilDeed]

Duviri was first teased during Tennocon 2019 in July, which wasn't even 4 years ago. I also highly doubt that it's been in active development for 3.5 years, but likely only for 1.5-2 years. 

Learn to count first. 

[bad4youLT]

1 hour ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Imagine if suddenly TF2, after years, added a game mode where you just play like it's Hitman. It has nothing to do with the base gun play of the game, or even melee. But hey, it's something new and fresh amirite?

Or Fortnite's biggest new game mode is a Fighting Game, completely detached from the mechanics of it's movement and shooting.

It's just such a dumb argument.

 

Let me tell you, when I unlocked Railjack I wasn't blown out of my mind at the ship combat. It was cool, but then halfway through I realized that I didn't play Warframe for Railjack bs. If I wanted ship to ship dogfights, I'd play Ace Combat or hell War Thunder if I'm cheap enough.

If I'm so bored of Warframe that I want to play something else, I can play something else.

How much or how often do you even play RJ or any other part of the game that isn't the core gameplay?

For me once I maxed out all three open world syndicates and obtained every bit and piece that I wanted from them I left to never return.

Same with Railjack and Camp and Operator upgrades and with Necramech and archwing and Zariman.

Do you know why? 

Its because open worlds, railjack, necramechs, kahl missions, archwing and zariman content do not get recycled into core gameplay or aren't worth the time and effort that has the drive force of retention like arbitrations, steel path, sorties and void fissures.

You know the stuff that keeps players returning and playing because this always have or get things that players are interested in and or actually need.

[Tibert01]

Duplicate post, but with my detailed thoughts and why this fills off, clunky and boring :

 

And also hopefully with useful feedback.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I'm gonna agree on the stun/impact animations needing to be added. 

But everything else meh. I'm going to be playing it either way.

 

[trst]

3 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

I'll never understand the community's obsession with having "Gameplay that isn't Warframe to break the monotony".

If you want to play something that isn't Warframe, play something that ISN'T Warframe instead of celebrating that a game mode completely devoid of the current mechanics are being added in.

Seeing the gameplay doesn't make me think "Oh boy I get to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay in Warframe". It makes me think "If I wanted to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay, I'd play those".

Hell, I'd settle for Let It Die for a similar power creeped free to play game.

It's just boring to me to see slow clunky gameplay, being heralded as "What Warframe needs!"

Variety is needed because the ""regular"" game offers zero variety outside of trying different loadouts, which even then aren't all that varied thanks to powercreep. It's that lack of variety that cause players to see WF as nothing but a grind game and why players hit burnout so often. They want to continue to play WF but doing the exact same unchanging thing thousands of times gets boring.

Also the things we already have that do offer some variety don't have substantial enough gameplay loops to retain interest. Content like mining, fishing, and conservation have limited uses. And Kahl has a lack of variety within itself and only has a limited shop to clear out. While anything else that could be considered different like Railjack are too similar to ""regular"" WF to matter. Inevitably Duviri will likely see the same fate but featuring an intrinsic grind on top of RNG guided gameplay might at least prolong that for a good while.

 

The whole point isn't to play Elden Ring without playing Elden Ring, it's to continue to play Warframe without feeling like you're just doing the exact same thing in the exact same missions thousands of times already. That's why players want gameplay variety.

[(PSN)killer115550]

That tiny snippet of gameplay looks fine to me. I need to see more though.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

2 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

And I'm preemptively thankful for that.  I'm wondering what exclusives will be locked behind the different types of content though.  Until it launches, I doubt we'll know.

Probably MR from Intrinics and some cosmetic items. But the Incarnon Adaptors are from The Circuit on Steel Path. 

Maybe the Operator Melee weapons? I imagine that they might also be Warframe compatible. That could be what's locked. 

 

[Lokryn]

Yeah, biggest problem I see is no feedback from enemies being hit. It also might be worthwhile to speed up the animations a bit and add hitstop so we can feel the attacks better. 

[TheMostFrench]

6 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

I'll never understand the community's obsession with having "Gameplay that isn't Warframe to break the monotony".

If you want to play something that isn't Warframe, play something that ISN'T Warframe instead of celebrating that a game mode completely devoid of the current mechanics are being added in.

Seeing the gameplay doesn't make me think "Oh boy I get to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay in Warframe". It makes me think "If I wanted to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay, I'd play those".

Hell, I'd settle for Let It Die for a similar power creeped free to play game.

It's just boring to me to see slow clunky gameplay, being heralded as "What Warframe needs!"

How is this devoid of the current mechanics? A previous Duviri gameplay demo showed players selecting from several pre-set Warframe builds, so Warframes are literally set into Duviri even if you don't own them. Mechanics like blocking/parrying have existed in Warframe for a long time, but they haven't been essential at all except in very specific circumstances, so if anything the devs are making old mechanics which already existed more meaningful, giving common mods like 'Parry', 'Focused Defense, and 'Guardian Derision' more of a reason to exist. The flying horse combines a k-drive with archwing, and it seems like we'll be able to use melee weapons, amps, or secondary weapons while riding.

The operator has been part of the game since 2015, with multiple focus trees and a brand new system of arcanes which could be added to amps, and then over the years arcanes got added to frames and weapons as well which became almost essential for steamrolling the highest level content. People had similar concerns about changing the game when they had to use amps to fight PoE bosses, but then they figured out how to do 3x Hydrolyst runs per night to farm affinity and focus, and suddenly it was ok because they were winning.

The Drifter / Duviri Paradox was teased in 2019 after the Empyrean demo. People have known that a non-warframe playable character has been coming for years, then we met them in The New War, and got the option to play as them, and have been able to use them as a stand in for the child operator while DE worked on Duviri, so that we could get comfortable with our new Drifter avatar.

 

5 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Imagine if suddenly TF2, after years, added a game mode where you just play like it's Hitman. It has nothing to do with the base gun play of the game, or even melee. But hey, it's something new and fresh amirite?

Or Fortnite's biggest new game mode is a Fighting Game, completely detached from the mechanics of it's movement and shooting.

It's just such a dumb argument.

 

Let me tell you, when I unlocked Railjack I wasn't blown out of my mind at the ship combat. It was cool, but then halfway through I realized that I didn't play Warframe for Railjack bs. If I wanted ship to ship dogfights, I'd play Ace Combat or hell War Thunder if I'm cheap enough.

If I'm so bored of Warframe that I want to play something else, I can play something else.

A mode for Fortnite, without the forts or building, was temporarily introduced, and it became so popular that Epic left it in the game https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2022/03/29/fortnite-zero-build-mode-is-here-to-stay/?sh=254c04651a5a

If Valve made a new game about The Spy, in the cartoony style of TF2, with the mechanics and depth of new Hitman games, it would sell like crazy. The 'Meet The Spy' video got 48 million views, people are very into the characters outside of the main TF2 gameplay loop.

 

[RichardKam]

6小时前 , (PSN)rexis12 说:

I'll never understand the community's obsession with having "Gameplay that isn't Warframe to break the monotony".

If you want to play something that isn't Warframe, play something that ISN'T Warframe instead of celebrating that a game mode completely devoid of the current mechanics are being added in.

Seeing the gameplay doesn't make me think "Oh boy I get to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay in Warframe". It makes me think "If I wanted to play Elden Ring/Bloodborne gameplay, I'd play those".

Hell, I'd settle for Let It Die for a similar power creeped free to play game.

It's just boring to me to see slow clunky gameplay, being heralded as "What Warframe needs!"

I would like to remind you that one cannot say "something is not Warframe" without first defining "what is Warframe". Otherwise we would be arguing over personal preference.

It is a philosophy question. Nothing is defined by "not something", but always "is something". That's why we have Ship of Theseus paradox.

If slow and sluggish gameplay is "not Warframe", then is the entire operator mode "not Warframe" as well? Operator is also slow and sluggish. Zariman bounties sometime ask you to play as operator for exterminate, is that particular small incidental part of the game "not Warframe" as well? 

But then someone also said Railjack is "not Warframe (game)" because you get to pilot a ship, even when you are still playing predominantly as a warframe (arsenal) and can finish everything on archwing. 

My point is, if you do not have a clear definition of Warframe (game), you cannot claim with confident that something is objectively "not Warframe" unless you are claiming based on your subjective preference only.

[L3512]

9 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

The circuit is pure WF gameplay, but inside that void thingy, that acts like a normal mission node, right?, cuz during Duviri Isaw you was able to temp jump into your frame for a very short time to do super high (whatever)

There seems to be a sort of reverse transference where the drifter can use a frame briefly from what I saw. Makes sense as we see the drifter trying to control a frame with Teshin so there will be bits of frame use in normal free roam Duviri I'm guessing.

[Duskztar]

44 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

But then someone also said Railjack is "not Warframe (game)" because you get to pilot a ship, even when you are still playing predominantly as a warframe (arsenal) and can finish everything on archwing. 

I'd like to see someone complete Veil missions with just their archwing, they're all but completely useless in RJ missions for anything other than getting from point A to B.

It could technically be done but it would be a pointless slog because arch weapons do next to nothing to RJ enemies.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

I would like to remind you that one cannot say "something is not Warframe" without first defining "what is Warframe". Otherwise we would be arguing over personal preference.

It is a philosophy question. Nothing is defined by "not something", but always "is something". That's why we have Ship of Theseus paradox.

If slow and sluggish gameplay is "not Warframe", then is the entire operator mode "not Warframe" as well? Operator is also slow and sluggish. Zariman bounties sometime ask you to play as operator for exterminate, is that particular small incidental part of the game "not Warframe" as well? 

But then someone also said Railjack is "not Warframe (game)" because you get to pilot a ship, even when you are still playing predominantly as a warframe (arsenal) and can finish everything on archwing. 

My point is, if you do not have a clear definition of Warframe (game), you cannot claim with confident that something is objectively "not Warframe" unless you are claiming based on your subjective preference only.

ultimately the devs have final say on what is Warframe.

"well its Warframe now"

- DE

[(PSN)rexis12]

5 hours ago, bad4youLT said:

How much or how often do you even play RJ or any other part of the game that isn't the core gameplay?

If I recall all the hype and talk about Railjack, it was obvious that they wanted it to be a core part of the gameplay. The, mission-to-mission moments where you go from a Node to another Node via Railjack or whatever.

I remember playing Railjack for the first time, and if you had asked me when I first played it and the Corpus mission I would have easily said that "Man this would be better if it didn't have Warframe."

And then the novelty of this 'new' and 'refreshing' game mode wore off, and the fact that I'm suddenly playing a turret shooter with entirely different mechanics, with different controls, with different methods of upgrades that are not tied to the content that I've already worked to build on, made me realise "Actually no, lol it would suck."

4 hours ago, trst said:

That's why players want gameplay variety.

And it won't last.

It took all about... what a week before people were already sick of Khal.

It was complete new variety, it had completely new mechanics, and it had completely different characters and balance.

And by a week, a lot of people were already bored by it.

This kind of 'variety' where it completely strips you from all progress before, to jump into a completely new state/slate that (Assuming that they want to bring the whole mechanic into the Operator/Drifter after Duviri is done) just a waste of time.

I get wowed by the first time I get into a Necramech/Railjack/Archwing, only to play it a couple of times and realised that "I... didn't play the majority (at the time) of Warframe for this." And then when I get bored of it, I also realised "Holy hell, they wasted time, maybe months maybe years, developing something that I got bored of by the third playthrough." And then I never go back to it and think even more "Holy hell, this was such a waste of resources."

2 hours ago, TheMostFrench said:

How is this devoid of the current mechanics? A previous Duviri gameplay demo showed players selecting from several pre-set Warframe builds, so Warframes are literally set into Duviri even if you don't own them. Mechanics like blocking/parrying have existed in Warframe for a long time, but they haven't been essential at all except in very specific circumstances, so if anything the devs are making old mechanics which already existed more meaningful, giving common mods like 'Parry', 'Focused Defense, and 'Guardian Derision' more of a reason to exist. The flying horse combines a k-drive with archwing, and it seems like we'll be able to use melee weapons, amps, or secondary weapons while riding.

Am I glad that they added in the core gameplay in the game mode that going to be devoid of all previous mechanics, yeah. But I'm not gonna pretend that it's some great 'design' because what it means that they realised that just having a complete new game mode with nothing of the previously established mechanics in them is bad and then slapped it in.

I'd be happy if the game that I played that involve high mobility shooting/melee with various abilities retained high mobility shooting/melee with various abilities.

2 hours ago, TheMostFrench said:

A mode for Fortnite, without the forts or building, was temporarily introduced, and it became so popular that Epic left it in the game

Interesting, can you also show me where in that game mode where they removed Fortnite's:

1. Fortnite's shooting and melee system.

2.  Fortnite's method of movement in game.

3. Fortnite's looting and open world gameplay option.

4. Fortnite's gun/health/shield mechanics

5. Fortnite's life and death system.

If you're response to me saying that Fornite doesn't have a game mode where everything about it was completely changed into a different game, and you respond by pointing "But look at this game mode that only removed one thing in the game!" then I don't know what to tell you.

2 hours ago, TheMostFrench said:

If Valve made a new game about The Spy, in the cartoony style of TF2, with the mechanics and depth of new Hitman games, it would sell like crazy.

Yes, but then you wouldn't be attracting the freaking playerbase that play TF2 because of TF2. At best you'd have people who were interested in the IP jumping in because it has the same face, but then they realised that as players of TF2 who played the game, for close to two decades, because of the gun play movement and class system of TF2 and then they leave.

At best they would keep the mechanics of Spy from TF2, but that at that point they wouldn't be making an entirely new game from scratch, just like how the new Duviri looks like an Elden Ring game but played in another game, they'd just be using the mechanics that were already used and popular in their old game only focused around that.

You tell me that a player that's only played Soldier would want to play as the Spy, or a player that only wants to play Scout wants to play a slow Spy TF2 game.

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

If slow and sluggish gameplay is "not Warframe", then is the entire operator mode "not Warframe" as well? Operator is also slow and sluggish. Zariman bounties sometime ask you to play as operator for exterminate, is that particular small incidental part of the game "not Warframe" as well? 

Considering how Operator, at release:

1. Was originally a super mode where you had a chest laser that was used only after you charged it up.

and

2. Was then change to be playable, but had no shields and were extremely squishy so you were incentivised not to have them out for long periods of time and use them for support.

Yeah, I can say that in the grand scheme of things an 'Operator Only Mode' would be 'not Warframe' since in a vacuum it has nothing to do with the current mechanics and they aren't stretching it out for entire mission lengths that Duviri is going to be. They understood this and made it so that Operator is just a upgrade/buffing mechanic to Warframes, even something like Eidolon Hunts have it so that Operators are just a part of the gameplay loop in that game mode as oppose to being the entire part of it.

And if you're going to ask about the Zariman Bounties where you have to kill as Operator, I have to ask how many people are happy to play that then? How many people excitedly see "You have to kill X amout of enemies as Operator" and immediately go "Wow this is MY lucky day that I get to play this gamemode!"?

This even fails to mention that, at the least, this is done with Warframes and you'd have to just pop in and out of the Frame to get those kills as oppose to being a full gamemode where you play as nothing but the Operator.

2 hours ago, RichardKam said:

But then someone also said Railjack is "not Warframe (game)" because you get to pilot a ship, even when you are still playing predominantly as a warframe (arsenal) and can finish everything on archwing. 

The Railjack (Ship) portion is where it's not Warframe, because it's essentially a mobile version of you using the many turrets in Grineer missions.

It's obvious that, to the hype of Railjack coming up, they wanted it to be part of the gameplay loop and Railjack would be just as much as part of Warframe as you occasionally popping in and out of Operator form.

They just bungled it so bad that they've pretty much abandoned all efforts of putting it into the gameplay loop due to how much resources and time that they would need to actually integrate the damn thing.

 

 

[RichardKam]

10分钟前 , (PSN)rexis12 说:

Considering how Operator, at release:

1. Was originally a super mode where you had a chest laser that was used only after you charged it up.

and

2. Was then change to be playable, but had no shields and were extremely squishy so you were incentivised not to have them out for long periods of time and use them for support.

Yeah, I can say that in the grand scheme of things an 'Operator Only Mode' would be 'not Warframe' since in a vacuum it has nothing to do with the current mechanics and they aren't stretching it out for entire mission lengths that Duviri is going to be. They understood this and made it so that Operator is just a upgrade/buffing mechanic to Warframes, even something like Eidolon Hunts have it so that Operators are just a part of the gameplay loop in that game mode as oppose to being the entire part of it.

And if you're going to ask about the Zariman Bounties where you have to kill as Operator, I have to ask how many people are happy to play that then? How many people excitedly see "You have to kill X amout of enemies as Operator" and immediately go "Wow this is MY lucky day that I get to play this gamemode!"?

This even fails to mention that, at the least, this is done with Warframes and you'd have to just pop in and out of the Frame to get those kills as oppose to being a full gamemode where you play as nothing but the Operator.

The Railjack (Ship) portion is where it's not Warframe, because it's essentially a mobile version of you using the many turrets in Grineer missions.

It's obvious that, to the hype of Railjack coming up, they wanted it to be part of the gameplay loop and Railjack would be just as much as part of Warframe as you occasionally popping in and out of Operator form.

They just bungled it so bad that they've pretty much abandoned all efforts of putting it into the gameplay loop due to how much resources and time that they would need to actually integrate the damn thing.

That's the point. The definition of "what is Warframe (game)" should be objective, instead of personal preference. Yeah no one is happy to play Zariman "without warframe bounty", but that is a preference issue, instead of definition issue. 

And since operator is now the current mechanics of Warframe (game), why "operator only mode" is "not Warframe (game)"? 

That's why you keep saying something you don't like as "this is not Warframe (game)". Simply not liking something does not by default mean something is "not Warframe (game)", it only means that you don't like it. You don't need a reason to hate something. 

If you want to categorize things into "is/is not Warframe (game)", you need to define "what is Warframe" first.

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 21 minutos, (PSN)rexis12 dijo:

If I recall all the hype and talk about Railjack, it was obvious that they wanted it to be a core part of the gameplay. The, mission-to-mission moments where you go from a Node to another Node via Railjack or whatever.

I remember playing Railjack for the first time, and if you had asked me when I first played it and the Corpus mission I would have easily said that "Man this would be better if it didn't have Warframe."

And then the novelty of this 'new' and 'refreshing' game mode wore off, and the fact that I'm suddenly playing a turret shooter with entirely different mechanics, with different controls, with different methods of upgrades that are not tied to the content that I've already worked to build on, made me realise "Actually no, lol it would suck."

And it won't last.

It took all about... what a week before people were already sick of Khal.

It was complete new variety, it had completely new mechanics, and it had completely different characters and balance.

And by a week, a lot of people were already bored by it.

This kind of 'variety' where it completely strips you from all progress before, to jump into a completely new state/slate that (Assuming that they want to bring the whole mechanic into the Operator/Drifter after Duviri is done) just a waste of time.

I get wowed by the first time I get into a Necramech/Railjack/Archwing, only to play it a couple of times and realised that "I... didn't play the majority (at the time) of Warframe for this." And then when I get bored of it, I also realised "Holy hell, they wasted time, maybe months maybe years, developing something that I got bored of by the third playthrough." And then I never go back to it and think even more "Holy hell, this was such a waste of resources."

Am I glad that they added in the core gameplay in the game mode that going to be devoid of all previous mechanics, yeah. But I'm not gonna pretend that it's some great 'design' because what it means that they realised that just having a complete new game mode with nothing of the previously established mechanics in them is bad and then slapped it in.

I'd be happy if the game that I played that involve high mobility shooting/melee with various abilities retained high mobility shooting/melee with various abilities.

Interesting, can you also show me where in that game mode where they removed Fortnite's:

1. Fortnite's shooting and melee system.

2.  Fortnite's method of movement in game.

3. Fortnite's looting and open world gameplay option.

4. Fortnite's gun/health/shield mechanics

5. Fortnite's life and death system.

If you're response to me saying that Fornite doesn't have a game mode where everything about it was completely changed into a different game, and you respond by pointing "But look at this game mode that only removed one thing in the game!" then I don't know what to tell you.

Yes, but then you wouldn't be attracting the freaking playerbase that play TF2 because of TF2. At best you'd have people who were interested in the IP jumping in because it has the same face, but then they realised that as players of TF2 who played the game, for close to two decades, because of the gun play movement and class system of TF2 and then they leave.

At best they would keep the mechanics of Spy from TF2, but that at that point they wouldn't be making an entirely new game from scratch, just like how the new Duviri looks like an Elden Ring game but played in another game, they'd just be using the mechanics that were already used and popular in their old game only focused around that.

You tell me that a player that's only played Soldier would want to play as the Spy, or a player that only wants to play Scout wants to play a slow Spy TF2 game.

Considering how Operator, at release:

1. Was originally a super mode where you had a chest laser that was used only after you charged it up.

and

2. Was then change to be playable, but had no shields and were extremely squishy so you were incentivised not to have them out for long periods of time and use them for support.

Yeah, I can say that in the grand scheme of things an 'Operator Only Mode' would be 'not Warframe' since in a vacuum it has nothing to do with the current mechanics and they aren't stretching it out for entire mission lengths that Duviri is going to be. They understood this and made it so that Operator is just a upgrade/buffing mechanic to Warframes, even something like Eidolon Hunts have it so that Operators are just a part of the gameplay loop in that game mode as oppose to being the entire part of it.

And if you're going to ask about the Zariman Bounties where you have to kill as Operator, I have to ask how many people are happy to play that then? How many people excitedly see "You have to kill X amout of enemies as Operator" and immediately go "Wow this is MY lucky day that I get to play this gamemode!"?

This even fails to mention that, at the least, this is done with Warframes and you'd have to just pop in and out of the Frame to get those kills as oppose to being a full gamemode where you play as nothing but the Operator.

The Railjack (Ship) portion is where it's not Warframe, because it's essentially a mobile version of you using the many turrets in Grineer missions.

It's obvious that, to the hype of Railjack coming up, they wanted it to be part of the gameplay loop and Railjack would be just as much as part of Warframe as you occasionally popping in and out of Operator form.

They just bungled it so bad that they've pretty much abandoned all efforts of putting it into the gameplay loop due to how much resources and time that they would need to actually integrate the damn thing.

 

 

for me the problem is that they leave the content abandoned after launching them, the biggest problem with khal is how absurdly repetitive it is, it has the same map (2 of the 3 don't even have the ideal scale for khal), there is a lot Fixed number of enemies and they are always in the same position, the weapons are exactly the same and are obtained in the same order. In railjack many complain about the part of the corpus, and ask for more missions like the Grineers, in addition to the fact that the infested are missing, the void storms are too long to be worth it and it also has one of the worst farms that are the corrupted holokeys . These game modes aren't bad as such, the problem is that they don't come back to them to deliver new content and fix bugs (most of railjack's bad reputation is that it had a horrible launch and didn't deliver much of what was promised).