My thoughts on Sun and Moon..

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

(Disclaimer: I'm talking about the Warframe weapon, not the version used by Drifter).

I know some people have been slightly upset about the new addition of dual Nikanas, but I'm personally quite satisfied. 

The first complaint is about the fact that the stance lacks forced procs, and I totally get that, but thank goodness they actually made it free instead of a 0.1% drop chance from random Duviri guy. I'm also seriously happy we actually have a new weapon with a comfortable and fast stance since the past few additions have NOT been that way.

As for Sun and Moon themselves, I'm ok with the stats being somewhat mediocre (I actually predicted like half a year ago that they would probably be worse in stats than my Prisma Dual Cleavers, and I wasn't wrong) because these are the starting set of dual Nikanas, and dual Nikanas will probably be way better when we get a pair with high cc/status instead of average stats for both.

Edited June 5, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[FA22_RaptoR]

The best thing I did in Duviri specifically was get the Syam and dump the sun and moon. Made the experience of using a sword a hundred times better. As far as tenno weapons go? it's MR fodder.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

I hated it as a drifter weapon. However as a Warframe weapon the neutral combo is extremely strong and has very good damage multipliers. The rest of the combos feel pretty bad. Overall not as bad as someone people say. One or two forced slash procs would be nice.

Edited June 5, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[ReddyDisco]

To put it bluntly, it's horrible as a drifter weapon, i can get a cheese knife and do better.

As a warframe weapon, with blood rush, condition overload, weeping wounds and a primer it's decent. Stance is pretty fuild with good multipliers but the lack of forced procs leaves a lot to be desired from a new stance.

Overall i like it for the nostalgia and novelty of being Teshin's swords.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

4 hours ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

As far as tenno weapons go? it's MR fodder.

As I said, Sub and Moon is the entry level dual Nikanas. It's not bad, but it's not excelling at anything. Later on I'm sure we'll (hopefully) get dual Nikanas with higher crit/status stats.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

personally, I'm just happy we finally got them; I never expected them to be Meta or even decent, though I'd argue they aren't that bad, aside from the lack of slash procs. it's definitely better as a warframe weapon than a drifter weapon though.

for Drifter, i'd recommend either Syam (does a LOT more damage than Sun & Moon) or Sampotes and just spam heavy attack all the time, even without decrees the unga bunga combos totally wrecks the Dax and once you get decrees it's insane lol. 

now that I can stop begging for Teshin's blades, I'm hoping for Split-Swords to become it's own category.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

personally, I'm just happy we finally got them; I never expected them to be Meta or even decent, though I'd argue they aren't that bad, aside from the lack of slash procs. it's definitely better as a warframe weapon than a drifter weapon though.

 

I agree with this. The fact that the weapon is fast and fun to use makes it way better than the ghoulsaw, 2h Nikana, and 2h scythe imo.

[Cyloss]

Sun and Moon is only in the game tho justify the crapsouls like combat in duviri. Its bad on purpose. As soon as we get another drifter weapon the whole thing flies out of the window. Its made to be replaced.

[TARINunit9]

All these people just dumping on Son & Moon as if all the other drifter melee options don't share its problems. Godawful range? The Azothane is missing half its hitbox. Clunky moves? The Edun is stuck with the parts of Bleeding Willow I can't stand. Mediocre damage? All the weapons have that, you just didn't notice because you had more Intrinsics by the time you unlocked then

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, Cyloss said:

Sun and Moon is only in the game tho justify the crapsouls like combat in duviri. Its bad on purpose. As soon as we get another drifter weapon the whole thing flies out of the window. Its made to be replaced.

I'm referring to the version available for Warframes.

[0_The_F00l]

I am just happy to have a dual nikana for now ,.it's not OP or meta , but it's a decent enough weapon.

And the aesthetics go very well with some of my martial loadouts.

Lack of forced procs is a bit disappointing , but the slash weightage on them is good so it's not a complete miss.

The major disappointment is that there are no energy blades or the ability add fire   cold or electric effects to it through some means.

[Kaggelos]

Im not the kinda guy that sees numbers and goes brrrr.

Having said that, The Sun and Moon is one of my new favorite stances/weapons.

Because its just pure fun, thats all. 

The animations, movements, sounds and feel of it are juuust right. 

[Azamagon]

2 hours ago, Kaggelos said:

The animations, movements, sounds and feel of it are juuust right. 

Almost 100% agreed. The forward+block could have a TAD more movement forward. But animation-wise, it looks fantastic! I'm so glad there is no silly "hold it with my toe"-attack or dumb stuff like that (looking at you, Stinging Thorn).

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 hours ago, Kaggelos said:

Im not the kinda guy that sees numbers and goes brrrr.

Having said that, The Sun and Moon is one of my new favorite stances/weapons.

Because its just pure fun, thats all. 

The animations, movements, sounds and feel of it are juuust right. 

I agree with this. I absolutely love Nikanas, but I feel somewhat clunky with some of blind justice's attacks (even with a good amount of attack speed). While I still love Blind Justice, the Dual Nikana stance (Mountain's Edge) feels so much better, even if it doesn't do as much damage. 

It's definitely my favorite out of all the dual wield weapon stances.

[(PSN)Unstar]

I feel like it's a bummer that so much of the melee meta comes down to whether a weapon and/or stance can reliably do slash procs.  Pouring one out for all the non-slash weapons with stances that don't guarantee slash procs.

[Leqesai]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I feel like it's a bummer that so much of the melee meta comes down to whether a weapon and/or stance can reliably do slash procs.  Pouring one out for all the non-slash weapons with stances that don't guarantee slash procs.

The meta vs Grineer and Corrupted enemies is slash. Against infested, corpus and sentients there are plenty of other options. Heck, even the slash meta is largely undermined by the simplicity of armor-strip in the current era of Warframe. I'd argue the current "slash meta" mentality is a bit off-base.

[(PSN)Unstar]

15 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

The meta vs Grineer and Corrupted enemies is slash. Against infested, corpus and sentients there are plenty of other options. Heck, even the slash meta is largely undermined by the simplicity of armor-strip in the current era of Warframe. I'd argue the current "slash meta" mentality is a bit off-base.

Overall this is a fair point that applies to the bulk of the game!  Though it feels to me like Steel Path Circuit has encouraged a vibe where every individual weapon needs to be able to stand on its own because you have so little control over what it will be paired with. ^^;

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Overall this is a fair point that applies to the bulk of the game!  Though it feels to me like Steel Path Circuit has encouraged a vibe where every individual weapon needs to be able to stand on its own because you have so little control over what it will be paired with. ^^;

Also, incarnon weapons are generally strong enough that reliance on something like slash procs is mostly not necessary outside of endurance runs (which is not, and has never been, within the scope of general balance).

[Hypernaut1]

I feel like they do a decent with job. I don't know why some of you feel so strongly about it.

[FA22_RaptoR]

3 hours ago, Leqesai said:

Also, incarnon weapons are generally strong enough that reliance on something like slash procs is mostly not necessary outside of endurance runs (which is not, and has never been, within the scope of general balance).

I was actually really temped to pick the "20% armor strip on puncture proc" over the extra crit chance and damage on the Latron incarnon, but it's easy enough to take down armored enemies right now and the extra crit is nice for other enemies besides corrupted and grineer. Still an interesting idea,

I'd like to see some more variance and reason to use other damage types besides slash (without needing to nerf slash)... Like Puncture could have armor/shield bypass on proc, and impact could have permanent armor removal like "shattering impact" while slash could still be the DOT king.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

8 hours ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

 

I'd like to see some more variance and reason to use other damage types besides slash (without needing to nerf slash)... Like Puncture could have armor/shield bypass on proc, and impact could have permanent armor removal like "shattering impact" while slash could still be the DOT king.

Maces were historically used to batter the insides of enemies through their armor (while also denting it) so it doesn't make sense on why you can't use impact damage to bypass armor (even if only some of the damage is bypassing it).

Edited June 7, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Maces were historically used to batter the insides of enemies through their armor (while also denting it) so it doesn't make sense on why you can't use impact damage to bypass armor (even if only some of the damage is bypassing it).

I see impact as breaking armor, puncture going through it, and slash causing bleed DOT.

[TeaHands]

Reading the responses makes me happy I never learned how forced procs work with stances, I just like using the ones that look cool. This is definitely one that looks cool. I'm just slightly disappointed they don't work like in Tenshin's New War mission.

I think it's a really good weapon/stance for people starting the game. And giving beginners a clear way to get all the melee weapons from Duviri was a good move imo.

[Skoomaseller]

On 2023-06-06 at 1:35 PM, 0_The_F00l said:

I am just happy to have a dual nikana for now ,.it's not OP or meta , but it's a decent enough weapon.

And the aesthetics go very well with some of my martial loadouts.

Lack of forced procs is a bit disappointing , but the slash weightage on them is good so it's not a complete miss.

The major disappointment is that there are no energy blades or the ability add fire   cold or electric effects to it through some means.

agreed, I'm glad they're not as disappointing as heavy scythes or the ghoulsaw. It's a good start for a new melee category.

on that note, I hope one day the person in charge of making stances and assigning the damage multipliers understands that the base damage of heavier melees won't carry them alone. 

[Skoomaseller]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I see impact as breaking armor, puncture going through it, and slash causing bleed DOT.

same here. Hoping for an IPS rework that does this.

another interesting idea I saw on another post a while ago was to change Puncture so it damaged and de-armored the enemy based on a % of their armor - spalling, I think they called it.