Abyss of Dagath - Dev Workshop: System Changes and General Quality of Life

[RachoFire]

I wonder if overshields will be counted in this new shield gate system. So if you have 1115+ overshields you’ll get the 2.5 invulnerability period. I kinda want it to be but I won’t be upset if it’s not. However, I will say most frames won’t be able to get to 1115 shields with just redirection 

[(NSW)Betheudo]

11 minutes ago, Cleblatt64 said:

They have updated the some of the values already. I have put a note on my post.

ok great 👍, the note wasn't there yet when i was typing my reply 😅 and didn't read all the pages in the post.

meant no offence 😉, just didn't see any other calculations so did my own.

[-VS-UMARRR]

It would be great to get an extra warframe mod slot for shield modifying mods like Catalyzing Shields. That would open up the opportunity for the devs to release similar mods in the future (i.e. 75% damage reduction to shields, X percent probability that enemy receives a certain status proc if player gets a hit to shields, status immunity if shields are higher then X percent, keeping shields up for X seconds grants X amount of critical chance etc.) and promote them towards new players, because they will ask themselves the question, what this specific mod slot is for and then investigate.

A second thought regarding the actual stats of the mod. Why still keep an procentual reduction of the shields. If someone uses that mod they want the shields to be as small as possible anyway. So shouldn't shield gating be accessible to all warframes the same way? I recommend changing the procentual reduction to a flat 50 shields. So frames with bigger shields benefit from this the same as frames with smaller shields.

[D-Shear]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb lukinu_u:

You don't rob them from build diversity, you remove  something they weren't supposed to have in the first place, which is totally fair.
All warframe have their pros and cons, and some of them have survivability as pros, so why squishy frames would have equal survivability in the same amount of mods ?

Plus the 2 warframes you mentionned are good in survivability. Saryn is tanky enough to rely on life steal and/or normal shield gating while Mirage is squishy but can rely a lot control to survive. Shield gating is just the easy way of surviving for any warframe that don't have astronomical EHP or tank abilities, so it's completely normal to increase the requirements.

I am sorry, but I have to check if we are on the same page here. I am talking about endgame sp endurance, enemy level in the thousands, meaning there is no tanking or "lifesteal" in the equation at all. You can't tank any lvl 2000+ projectiles to your shields or health, no matter what you mod or do. This is WHY there is shield gating, to able to play at all at those enemy levels. The gameplay is binary in these echelons, you either get invulnerable to react or you die. 

You saying "what they weren't supposed to have in the first place" makes literally zero sense, it was patched in because it is REQUIRED to play in those level ranges, if you are not invisible or Revenant.

What you are talking about is base steel path and that is powercrept so beyond, that I do not anything but RG slotted to snooze through it on any frame, nothing at all required.

Edited September 29, 2023 by TeenieSlasher

[Mazifet]

16 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Wait, did you guys address the Dragon Key + shield gate problem and then added a new mod that does nearly exactly that?

It's the best of both worlds. The meta players can do the same thing as before with just 1 mod slot, and the high shield value frames (harrow, hildryn, etc.) can now actually take advantage of those values in high level gameplay.

[staranow]

11 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

AH - fixed! Post is updated now. To save you the search:

NEZHA PRIME
Health: Base Rank - 265 (from 125) / Max Rank - 465 (from 375)
Shields: Base Rank - 85 (from 50) / Max Rank - 280 (from 150)
Armor: Base Rank - 265 (from 250)
Energy: Base Rank - 175 (from 150) / Max Rank - 225 (from 225)

Ah, thank you for the info and for updating the original post as well. I doubted that Nezha P would get a max energy buff but I still wanted to know for sure!

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

how will this effect inaros?

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

1 hour ago, TeenieSlasher said:

I am sorry, but I have to check if we are on the same page here. I am talking about endgame sp endurance, enemy level in the thousands, meaning there is no tanking or "lifesteal" in the equation at all. You can't tank any lvl 2000+ projectiles to your shields or health, no matter what you mod or do. This is WHY there is shield gating, to able to play at all at those enemy levels. The gameplay is binary in these echelons, you either get invulnerable to react or you die. 

You saying "what they weren't supposed to have in the first place" makes literally zero sense, it was patched in because it is REQUIRED to play in those level ranges, if you are not invisible or Revenant.

What you are talking about is base steel path and that is powercrept so beyond, that I do not anything but RG slotted to snooze through it on any frame, nothing at all required.

and ur not meant to do that in the first place otherwise they would remove health and shields entirely and make it so u cant die if u were meant to fight level 9999 steal path....

this argument is non negotiable, ur argument is invalid, the highest ur meant to go is level 400, just because u can abuse broken mechanics to go higher then that doesn't mean they intend players to go that high 

[crazywolfpusher]

Overall good changes, all in the right direction.  Making bigger shields better while keeping shield gating at low values was a smart decision. Open up lot of build possibilities on some frames.

Only thing that bothers me is having to sacrifice yet another mod slot on Catalyzing Shields. At least make it an exilus one, that would help a lot.  

 

Also, what kind of enemies can one shot you at lower levels that a 1k+ shield needs 2.5 seconds of i-frames? seems wasted I think (it's only helping some frames that can generate shields like Mag and Hildryn-Pillage). It would have been better, maybe, bigger shields get bigger dmg reduction while adding armor into the equation.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[BalaDeSilver]

I have a weird suggestion that some players won't agree with, but hear me out:

Using the new mod + the Dragon Key should remove 100% max shields and give any Warframe the Inaros treatment (can't regain the shields by any means, uses health for Hijack missions, etc). This drastically reduces survivability without a real immediate advantage from just using the mod and the key, but it does enable some silly tech on some specific frames that could be very fun to play with and explore what kind of gameplay comes out of a shieldless Valkyr or shieldless Grendel.

13 minutes ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

how will this effect inaros?

Mine will go from ~11k health to ~15k health :3

[AegidiusF]

il y a une heure, Mazifet a dit :

It's the best of both worlds. The meta players can do the same thing as before with just 1 mod slot, and the high shield value frames (harrow, hildryn, etc.) can now actually take advantage of those values in high level gameplay.

Yes, I agree. And those who will make the choice to build shields will be able to shield gate better : with two mods (depending on the warframe) - Fast Deflection and Redirection - , one can have 2,2 shields regeneration delay and 2.5 shield gating invulnerability. Brief Respite will be even more powerful to keep some warframes alive.

But no other change for Inaros that is not concerned by any kind of gating at all (Nidus at least has his passive and it's own gate - Undying - even though it doens't perform as good as shield gate).

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

3 minutes ago, BalaDeSilver said:

I have a weird suggestion that some players won't agree with, but hear me out:

Using the new mod + the Dragon Key should remove 100% max shields and give any Warframe the Inaros treatment (can't regain the shields by any means, uses health for Hijack missions, etc). This drastically reduces survivability without a real immediate advantage from just using the mod and the key, but it does enable some silly tech on some specific frames that could be very fun to play with and explore what kind of gameplay comes out of a shieldless Valkyr or shieldless Grendel.

Mine will go from ~11k health to ~15k health :3

do we have exact numbers for every frame?

[AxilliaPrime]

i was really relieved when tennocon showed that the future of the game was more actual warframe content instead of more duviri expansions.
drifter melee combat just feels so slow and underpowered without a million decrees that it is literally my least favorite thing to do in all of warframe,
and you're never gonna get more than 6 decrees anyway, because duviri experience, instead of lone story is torture, hell.... even just lone story is torture.

i've literally bought every single duviri melee weapon with plat, i bought 1 kullervo bundle and 1 extra kullervo for helminth from the store, bought cinta parts from other players.... hell, i bought all 5 purchasable incarnon adapters, not to actually make those specific weapons, but others i had adapters for for ages.... i bought them solely for the included pathos clamps, because there is no regular pathos clamp purchase option in the store.

and i can barely bring myself to get past duviri to get to the orowyrm bossfight, to the point i refuse to spend a single pathos clamp on anything but attaching incarnon adapters.

reading that future nightwave objectives will force you not to only do duviri overworld stuff, but the outright mindnumbing stuff like owl puzzles, playing music or that board game means i will simply not be able to progress fast in nightwave anymore.

if you want to actually bring QoL to warframe. put the orowyrm into the undercroft at stage 10 or 15, so we don't have to do the overworld stuff anymore,
put nightwave objectives in the undercroft if you must add duviri ones,
alternatively: give a final intrinsic unlock that lets us use warframes 100% of the time in duviri, or put pathos clamps on the store for outright purchase.

[(PSN)Mother_Cathyl]

Fantastic changes, but I have two (admittedly minor) concerns for the adjustments to frame values and mods.

First, please fix Harrow Prime's shield value. You guys are changing him to 650 shield because someone appears to have brainfarted and is claiming that his current max shield value in game is 525, which isn't the case. He's 200 scaling to 600, and if his new value goes live he's losing 180 shields if you only slot a Redirection, and even if you also use the buffed Boreal's Hatred you're still 7 shields less overall because of this. 740 shield at max would keep him where he currently is with just a Redirection, or you could give him 750 if you're really feeling wild.

Secondly, could you pretty please buff full Umbral Vitality to instead offer 190% instead of 180%? Looking through all of my Triple Umbral setups has every one of them with slightly less health than right now with the exception of Inaros, and with the tradeoff being only a few more points of armor for the frames that don't have their armor increased through leveling? Player annoyance through smaller numbers aside, that generally isn't the best trade. Increasing Vitality to 190% will give everyone a smidgen more health instead of a smidgen less. You guys were correct about dual Umbral being a little meatier though, with that giving 1-7 more health on my frames that only used two of that set.

These are probably my only critiques of everything here and I would love to see them go through. Keep up the phenomenal work, and justice for Harrow!

[lukinu_u]

Il y a 3 heures, TeenieSlasher a dit :

I am sorry, but I have to check if we are on the same page here. I am talking about endgame sp endurance, enemy level in the thousands, meaning there is no tanking or "lifesteal" in the equation at all. You can't tank any lvl 2000+ projectiles to your shields or health, no matter what you mod or do. This is WHY there is shield gating, to able to play at all at those enemy levels. The gameplay is binary in these echelons, you either get invulnerable to react or you die. 

You saying "what they weren't supposed to have in the first place" makes literally zero sense, it was patched in because it is REQUIRED to play in those level ranges, if you are not invisible or Revenant.

What you are talking about is base steel path and that is powercrept so beyond, that I do not anything but RG slotted to snooze through it on any frame, nothing at all required.

"Endurance runs" as you call them, aren't a thing. You can do them if you want but the the game isn't designed for them at all, and you shouldn't expect the balance to be designed around them. Of course there is no tanking when enemies deal so much damage that the literal tanks of the game still die in one hit and the only way of survival is immortality, but it's just not supposed to happens.

The introduction of shield gating wasn't for those "endurance runs" but to avoid the real squishies (Banshee, Loki, etc) from dying in one hit on the normal Steel Path.
And the future changes mentioned here also go in that direction and completely make sense.

Just in case you didn't realise it, the enemy power growing while rewards don't is supposed to discourage the player from player further in an environnent that wasn't designed (because harder with no benefits), and the only reason to continue playing there is the challenge, so you cannot complain about devs fixing an exploit that made said challenge trivial.
Yes there are still other ways to survive, but they are just warframes designed with conditional immortality as a survivability tool and matching flaws, which doesn't scale well in the (again) unintended playing environment provided by these "endurance runs".
I agree these tanks should get extreme DR instead of actual immortality, but is it really worth it when this change only have an impact at a level you're (again bis) not supposed to play because it wasn't designed ?

Edit : Also, you act like it's a skillful way of playing but it's not. Spamming powers every 1.33s to recharge your 75 shields with Augur set and stay immortal involve absolutely 0 skill. The only thing that can stop you is running out of energy or getting knocked down, but you can negate these two by using 1 exilus mod and avoiding the Eximus blue bubbles (or many of the alternatives).

Edited September 29, 2023 by lukinu_u

[D-Shear]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb lukinu_u:

"Endurance runs" as you call them, aren't a thing. You can do them if you want but the the game isn't designed for them at all, and you shouldn't expect the balance to be designed around them. Of course there is no tanking when enemies deal so much damage that the literal tanks of the game still die in one hit and the only way of survival is immortality, but it's just not supposed to happens.

The introduction of shield gating wasn't for those "endurance runs" but to avoid the real squishies (Banshee, Loki, etc) from dying in one hit on the normal Steel Path.
And the future changes mentioned here also go in that direction and completely make sense.

Just in case you didn't realise it, the enemy power growing while rewards don't is supposed to discourage the player from player further in an environnent that wasn't designed (because harder with no benefits), and the only reason to continue playing there is the challenge, so you cannot complain about devs fixing an exploit that made said challenge trivial.
Yes there are still other ways to survive, but they are just warframes designed with conditional immortality as a survivability tool and matching flaws, which doesn't scale well in the (again) unintended playing environment provided by these "endurance runs".
I agree these tanks should get extreme DR instead of actual immortality, but is it really worth it when this change only have an impact at a level you're (again bis) not supposed to play because it wasn't designed ?

Edit : Also, you act like it's a skillful way of playing but it's not. Spamming powers every 1.33s to recharge your 75 shields with Augur set and stay immortal involve absolutely 0 skill. The only thing that can stop you is running out of energy or getting knocked down, but you can negate these two by using 1 exilus mod and avoiding the Eximus blue bubbles (or many of the alternatives).

That edit comment disqualified you from any meaningful discussion. That is definitely not how you play endurance, but that just shows, you are not well into the substance of the game. (Loki... squishy? He is a full invis frame, so he is among the strongest by default, even if he had 1 armor/shield/hp) And again: Base steel path is powercrept to a level, where you raze it down like a lvl 5 mission on earth. There is literally no difference. You don't need anything but a rolling guard mod to stay alive in base steel path, if that at all. You don't need HP, armor, shields (gating), nothing. It's just a joke at this point, so any discussion inside that range of difficulty is a moot point, hence why I focus on the actual challenging part of the game. 

[Jordhiel]

Zitat

New Acts
Look for these Duviri-inspired Acts in the next Nightwave series! 

DAILY:

• Your Move: Complete a game of Komi in Duviri
• [...]

WEEKLY:

• [...]
• Finely Tuned: Play 2 different Shawzin songs in Duviri

Please take note that Komi and Shawzins still cannot be played at all when using a Steam Controller, as reported here:

 

[---BigDog---]

Hello DE, there are so many changes from year to year that I feel like the game has gotten easier and easier over the years! 

I can hardly find any challenges in Warframe anymore, what do we actually have the 6 revivals for? If you don't die after all!

Please don't make everything too easy! ! ! Otherwise, great work and keep it up...

[lukinu_u]

il y a 8 minutes, TeenieSlasher a dit :

hence why I focus on the actual challenging part of the game. 

That the problem, you focus on the part that wasn't designed.
I understand you seek challenge there because it's the only part of the game that can provide it, but it's just not part of the game so you shouldn't expect them to balance it.
 

il y a 10 minutes, TeenieSlasher a dit :

That edit comment disqualified you from any meaningful discussion. That is definitely not how you play endurance, but that just shows, you are not well into the substance of the game.

It can be, and that why I'm saying there is not skill involved.
Of course in practice you take risks and trade a bit of that survivability to perform other actions, but at any point you can decide to go back to ability spam to become immortal, and a gameplay where immortality on command is a thing is not skilled.
 

il y a 14 minutes, TeenieSlasher a dit :

(Loki... squishy? He is a full invis frame, so he is among the strongest by default, even if he had 1 armor/shield/hp)

No matter how frequent it is, you can die in one hit (collateral damage from a grenade, AoE, etc) and that's the problem shield gating was invented to solve.
I'm not 100% sure but I if I remember well, they mentionned shield gating was there to prevent the frustration of getting killed in one hit with no way of reacting to the last damage you took (because you just die instead of seeing your health go down). This apply to any Warframe with low EHP, no matter how helpful their kit is at surviving, being through invisiblity, good CC or anything else.
 

il y a 20 minutes, TeenieSlasher a dit :

And again: Base steel path is powercrept to a level, where you raze it down like a lvl 5 mission on earth. There is literally no difference. You don't need anything but a rolling guard mod to stay alive in base steel path, if that at all. You don't need HP, armor, shields (gating), nothing. It's just a joke at this point, so any discussion inside that range of difficulty is a moot point,

Again, there is misconception on your side regarding the intention of Steel Path.
Steel Path isn't supposed to challenge you as a player, but just your loadout against a higher scaling. It's not more difficult, it just involve more health and damage that you fight with the same on your side (aka better loadout).

I wish it was more difficult and I understand your perspective there, but it's really not supposed to be challenging, and "endurance runs" are the same, exept they push these stats to a point where no survivability tool available to player work aside from immortality, which is when actual immortality tools shines, including shield gating, but again the game is not designed to reach such level and you shoudn't except balance to be intentionally made there.

[fakeplayerr]

21 hours ago, Dawn_Felstar said:

Isn't this just a straight up nerf to all stats (bar armour) for the itzal? it's already the squishiest archwing why the nerf?

This would make running Itzal in railjack basically pointless with the amount of damage enemies do there, meaning if you exit your ship with one you're dead almost instantly
wasn't this supposed to bring stats around to the same as current or am i misunderstanding something?

go read it again above and do the math...

[OrionHardy84]

On 2023-09-28 at 5:02 PM, [DE]Taylor said:

New Acts

Look for these Duviri-inspired Acts in the next Nightwave series! 

DAILY:

• Your Move: Complete a game of Komi in Duviri

WEEKLY:

• Finely Tuned: Play 2 different Shawzin songs in Duviri

Please no, can't we have some circuit focused acts instead?
Like complete a full set of the circuit (e.g doing one of each of the mission types), or grab a certain number of the decree shards.

[ArcticHelix]

So they still refuse to give frost and frost prime a buff to energy to be an actual good caster frame? The hell is this.

[(XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL]

I don't like the shield changes. Now i must exchange one or more of my mods for shield mods ?

This sounds terrible. Have i missed something? 

Edited September 29, 2023 by (XBOX)XYZ RUMBEL

[(PSN)Unstar]

22 hours ago, Bratty_Child said:

Hildryn is still useless.

When her shield(energy) runs out, 3 of her abilities are channeled are deactivated and they have awfully long casting animation. Even with Pillage cycle gameplay, the shield could get one shotted killing the cycle entirely(the gate protects your health, not shield, surprising for some of you) and you have no access to abilities. But hey, at least the shield gate(now without partial gating) didn't make anything scratch your health.

What level of content are you doing where there's any risk of Hildryn's overshields getting one-shotted?  With Redirection, Adaptation, Arcane Aegis and Arcane Barrier, I can generally go make a sandwich and come back with my girl at full health.  And when actively using Burning Pillage with Roar in SP Circuit, I can't recall ever hitting a wall where she felt in danger (though I don't do multi-hour marathons).

I'm sure there is a point where Hildryn can't keep up at extremely high levels where shield-gating and invisibility are the only way players are surviving, but I don't think lacking strength in that specific niche warrants labeling an otherwise amazing frame as "useless".

[(PSN)cardinalphoenix]

Changes look great to me. One question I wanted to bring up, being a fan of Nightwave, been thinking on it a while...what is the philosophy behind the Bounty Acts needing to be "different?" If a newer player needs to farm ONE particular bounty tier for either a rank up item (like a debt bond, let's say) and they want to tie it in with Nightwave, why can't they just do the same Bounty 3-5 times and have that count? Or if that newbie just wants to do 3-5 lower tier Bounties for the material or endo rewards, why can't they do that. Or...if a higher level player isn't interested in the lower tier Bounties, and they want to do the higher and/or Steel Path ones 3-5 times, why doesn't that count?

If the idea is to get people doing all of the different tiers, or just a broader range of them, why isn't the Act, perhaps "do one of every tier bounty in X area?"

Small nitpick, I guess, but I think allowing people a bit more leeway with doing the bounties they want to do would be better.

Anyway, keep up the good work. Thanks for all the QoL. :-)