Death of the Decaying Dragon key !

[0_The_F00l]

About time they provided clarity on this , also those that want to use that play style will be getting a mods for it.

And those that also want to use shields will gain more duration as well.

Feels like an excellent change all round.

 

For those that didnt see the devstream ( i recommend seeing it as there is quite a bit):

Shield gate duration now scales with amount of shields and not a %,

Lower shields give lesser shield gate duration ,

higher shields give higher shield duration ,

New mod to try and replicate the effect of shield gate abuse   exploitation   creative usage via augur mods or brief respite instead of keys.

you can also check it here

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by 0_The_F00l

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

[Circle_of_Psi]

What did they change?

[PublikDomain]

Just now, Circle_of_Psi said:

What did they change?

Low shields are now a bad thing, not a good thing. That means that Decaying is now a bad thing too, like all the other Dragon keys.

But there's now a mod that makes low shields not bad that emulates the current Decaying-based shieldgating numbers.

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Low shields are now a bad thing, not a good thing. That means that Decaying is now a bad thing too, like all the other Dragon keys.

But there's now a mod that makes low shields not bad that emulates the current Decaying-based shieldgating numbers.

Okay, so I understood the first bit, But not the 2nd, you mind clearing that up for me?

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Okay, so I understood the first bit, But not the 2nd, you mind clearing that up for me?

There's gonna be a new mod that does exactly what Decaying does now: cut your Shields to 0.25x and set your Shieldgate to 1.33 seconds.

Decaying won't do this, it will just cut your Shields to 0.25x. And in general, having 0.25x Shields means having 0.25x as much Shieldgate (or whatever the curve is) - which would be bad.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

There's gonna be a new mod that does exactly what Decaying does now: cut your Shields to 0.25x and set your Shieldgate to 1.33 seconds.

Decaying won't do this, it will just cut your Shields to 0.25x. And in general, having 0.25x Shields means having 0.25x as much Shieldgate (or whatever the curve is) - which would be bad.

Thank you lol

So, they nerfed the hell out of it, good.

[Numerounius]

16 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

What did they change?

Increased DR up to 50% from 25% for shields, and the time invuln increases based on amount of shields you have rather than being a static amount, so lower shields means less time being invuln. Added mod that does the same effect as if you had decaying dragon key with numbers shown that I assume are test build numbers and not finalized numbers. Mentioned on devstream just now, not sure the exact numbers change on the shields/time invuln stat but it sounded like that if you weren't equipping the key before this you should hardly see a difference.

18 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

About time they provided clarity on this , also those that want to use that play style will be getting a mods for it.

And those that also want to use shields will gain more duration as well.

Feels like an excellent change all round.

And now it will be even easier to spot shield gate abusers in Warframe build videos with four mandatory mods instead of three! (PSF, Brief respite, Rolling Guard, Shield mod) Jokes aside, I didn't expect them to provide a cop out for people that still wanted it.

I'm more interested to see how much the DR increase from shields benefits squishy builds, since I constantly die to heat vents in Jupiter, especially if it is Sister-controlled, so even that additional little help on a build that is maxed out could go a long ways towards having to spend time in the mission holding down the revive key. Other than that good change all around with preventing decaying dragon key no longer being lower number is benefit rather than a negative.

Edited September 28, 2023 by XHADgaming

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Decaying Dragon Key can still be abused. Depending on how fast Shields regen and the delay, that 0.33 second invulnerable is enough.

[(NSW)warfare3376]

3 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Decaying won't do this, it will just cut your Shields to 0.25x. And in general, having 0.25x Shields means having 0.25x as much Shieldgate (or whatever the curve is) - which would be bad.

Thats not exactly true the decaying key will now cap your shield gat to .33 but some of the old lower shield lvls are actually kind of stay as effective. For example from the dev workshop 75 shields will give a 1 sec shield gate but with the new chance to the key a frame sayrn who gets 75 shields with the key equipped will only have a .33 sec shield gate but grendrel who has 75 shields by default without the key equipped would get a 1 second shield gate.

[0_The_F00l]

1 minute ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

Decaying Dragon Key can still be abused. Depending on how fast Shields regen and the delay, that 0.33 second invulnerable is enough.

Sure , sure. if only the key was changed to also affect regen rate of shields... oh wait.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Just now, 0_The_F00l said:

Sure , sure. if only the key was changed to also affect regen rate of shields... oh wait.

Regen rate doesn't matter. It's the delay until the regen starts. 10 shields will still give 0.33 seconds of invulnerable.

[0_The_F00l]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

Regen rate doesn't matter. It's the delay until the regen starts. 10 shields will still give 0.33 seconds of invulnerable.

So just like you get without the key?

[Famecans]

This Shield Gatting fix exemplifies my criticism related to influencing players in unofficial builds or mods with inaccurate and problematic descriptions. Dragon Key to Shield Gating is a cheat and the DE remained silent watching the flood approach here.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Famecans

[(NSW)warfare3376]

1 minute ago, Famecans said:

Dragon Key to Shield Gating is a cheat.

You should hate this change then because the new shield gate changes basically make the decaying key trick default for all frames that have shields.

[Silligoose]

10 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

About time they provided clarity on this , also those that want to use that play style will be getting a mods for it.

And those that also want to use shields will gain more duration as well.

Feels like an excellent change all round.

I'm happy for the change, kind of. On the one hand at least DE isn't going to pretend the Decaying Key was an intended function. On the other I'd still have preferred for Shield Gating to be scrapped and relative frame durability to be addressed properly, but this is the land of the band-aids I guess.

We'll see how it plays out.

[trst]

It really took far too long for DE to finally deal with this. The criticism of shields being a worthless stat to mod for are almost as old as the game. Then for DE to drop Shieldgating on us to worsen that problem for all this time was ridiculous. But better late then never I guess.

Though I do wonder how much more broken some frames will be now with the changes. 2.5 seconds at only 1150 Shields is ridiculous on frames with shield restoring. But while finally getting access to charge delay mods outside of Conclave is great that might just make low shield builds even more broken.

Edited September 28, 2023 by trst

[Famecans]

14 minutes ago, (NSW)warfare3376 said:

You should hate this change then because the new shield gate changes basically make the decaying key trick default for all frames that have shields.

I don't hate it or like it, my criticism is related to fact that unofficial builds waste time and platinum.

[(NSW)warfare3376]

17 minutes ago, Famecans said:

I don't hate it or like it, my criticism is related to fact that unofficial builds waste time and platinum.

Think about it for a second all the decaying key was used for was to reduce the maximum amount of shields, thats it it didnt shield gating you still need to have to tools to replenish your shields be that abilities like pillage or condemn or brief respite/auger mods. Now however since the shield gate duration is no longer tied to maximum shields but rather the current shields, so the decaying key loses all value completely but all the second part of the equation, that being shield restoration, is exactly the same. This means that say sayrn for example who with the decaying key respite combo would have a 1.33 sec shield gate with each cast of molt whereas after the change saryn will have a 1 sec shield gate with every molt cast and the only thing that changes is the that you wont use the key after the change but you will still have extremely similar benefits.

Overall I think this change is very good as it still keeps the old shield gate setups somewhat the same albeit maybe slightly less effective but also makes it so having higher shields is always a benefit rather than it being strictly a negative.

Edited September 28, 2023 by (NSW)warfare3376

[nslay]

Finally! It was silly that less shields was better. It will be fun to figure out what the best amount of shields to have will be.

You have competing factors like regeneration rate (which is not a % per second) and other regeneration mechanics versus invulnerability time... We might be equipping not-fully-ranked shield mods for the best tradeoff 🤩

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

personally I never bothered with the Decaying Key Exploit, so I can't really comment on how goos it was for me.

what i will say though is that it amused me how DE said that it was our "ingenuity" and a "unique way" of working around the current shield system, like they're actually proud of us instead of infuriated that we exploited their system. whetehr that's true or if they're just saying that, I don't know, but at least they recognised the problems with the system and are making large steps to change it.

anyway, RIP Decaying Key, back to just being used for Vault runs and additional challenge now. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Long live the King. The King has been slain. 

RIP Shield Gate meta, we usher in the new meta... The Scaling Exploding Red Barrel meta! 

To be serious though, I was pretty neutral on DDK just because I never actually saw the need to use it, I never came across enemy situations, where multiple had one shot mechanics or abilities with the aggressive or coordination to use them together against us the player. Not in level cap gameplay or less. It just seemed like a type of playstyle that some got track and be excited for, which sure. I also did appreciate and like just regular shield gating, since I play Nidus a lot, I would discover situations, where if I wasn't with a bunch of stacks, I would have "randomly" died, and having a shield gate an be nice for such moments.

I like the new changes though despite that. Seems more considered and to the overall benefit of the game. Do sort of wish Nidus and Inaros could be looked at. Not because I think they need it per say, especially not in most content. Some situations, would be nice though if they had some sort of back up options. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

Interesting. Looking forward to seeing how it all pans out; this community is notorious for nothing if not taking an intended design and turning it on its head, so it’ll be interesting to see what people will do to find out how to warp the system

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

I'm a little confused could y'all clarify? So shield gate invulnerability time is effected by total modded shields. Also it doesn't matter how much shields you recover (say you equip a single augur mod) as long as you recover even some shields, you will always get the full invulnerability time? Also how does overshields effect invulnerability time in relation to abilities like condemn and pillage?

Edited September 29, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

I'm a little confused could y'all clarify? So shield gate invulnerability time is effected by total modded shields. Also it doesn't matter how much shields you recover (say you equip a single augur mod) as long as you recover even some shields, you will always get the full invulnerability time?

 

I will try my best. I may give you info you already know and understand, but I will present it, for context, and to contrast the older from the new. 

Shield gate invulnerability time, now depends on your shield values. 0.33 seconds is the minimum, and 2.5 seconds is the maximum, capped at 1150 Shields. Then for comparison, to get 1.3 second Shield Gate you need 325 Shields. Oh and its also worth mentioning that there are some other changes happening to Warframe stats overall, around their general stats, at base and max rank, So if you are worried that many Warframes don't meet that threshold, many that didn't, will. Shields is getting other buffs as well. 

The old way, would have shield gating for partially depleted shields, so if you weren't at max, you would have 0.33 invulnerability compared to 1.3. Now, partial shields operate similar to above as far as scaling, so the example they gave, was if you are at 350 (but your max is say 500), you will get 1.3 invulnerability. More with more and less with less. 0.33 invulnerability always being the min.

Which overall means, buffs to shield regen, shields up to 1150. Shields in general, as in 50% resistance to all damage types. There is also going to be a new Corrupted mod, that people can use, if they are attached to the Decay Dragon Key approach, where you will get 1.33s of Shield Gating regardless, by lowering overall shields. Which may be of use for those that prefer it, maybe some Warframes whose shields stats may be flimsy, if the player relied more on DDK?!? Its hard to tell, but there is a table of Warframe base attribute adjustments in the workship which shows what their upcoming values will be. Overall looks just like buffs, couldn't see many nerfs. 

I think they said their may be slight Energy nerfs if you are using Primed Flow. Relatively, like 5-10 energy. Some like Garuda will get a buff though overall. Some like Lavos, Nidus, Nidus Prime, and Kullervo getting armour buffs. 

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have questions or such. 

Its a large thread but check out the Dev workshop if you have time, it has good info and examples to help visualise.