Change Umbra Forma to Universal Forma

[(XBOX)RealBoyMoss]

The Umbra Forma should become a universal polarity. 
 

The Umbra forma is a rare commodity one we can only get every 8 weeks via Teshin for 150 steel essence, once per night wave cycle as an end tier reward, and the rare occasional twitch stream drop. The umbra polarity is great for frames that need that extra clean power strength, health, or armor which is nice however it tends to bind the frame into only that. Meaning if you want to run a frame for multiple purposes or builds you are essentially stuck with that type of build since the only mods that fit there are the umbral mods. Since the release of the archon mods such as archon vitality it requires you to rework your frame to accommodate that and doesn’t allow the freedom of build configurations you are essentially chained to the umbral polarity.

Because of the hefty 16 capacity of a max umbra mod and the combined increase effectiveness of running umbral mods together it’s essential to at least run 2 umbral mods together which at the end of the day means you need to have at least 2 umbral polarities on the warframe. This tends to be an issue with some frames for this example I will use Volt. Volt has many uses for this I’ll go over 2 builds the eidolon hunting build, and a range discharge build. 
 

This eidolon build requires all 3 umbral mods and 2 umbra polarities giving volt boosted tao resistance, health, armor, and strength making casual eidolon hunts easier. However when we switch over to configuration B the discharge build I’m now forced to use umbral intensify + vitality/fiber however to maximize this build we don’t need health, or armor on this build but instead just strength, range, duration forcing the player to tip toe around the umbra polarities. Meaning we do not use one of the umbral mods and instead place a mod in the umbral polarity spot but because of mix matched polarities whatever mod gets placed there is now red and costs more capacity forcing us to use lower rank/ unleveled mods, or completely dropping a mod from exilus slot in order to squeak by the capacity requirements. Effectively making it impossible to maximize the frames potential. Which leaves the only options to remove the umbra polarity which is a waste because these things are rare they only come around once every 2 months or to build an entire new frame to be able to run different configurations at maximized efficiency which either way is not cool. 
 

To fix this if the umbra polarity was changed to a universal polarity it would remove the chains of the umbra polarity on builds giving freedom to configure your build however you want if you want to run archon vitality on configuration A and run umbral vitality on configuration B you could because the umbra polarity would be a universal polarity anything fits there! Just like stance forma for the melees and the aura formas for the warframes! 
 

The universal umbra forma could even be used on primary weapons and secondary weapons. You may ask why would you do that there aren’t even any umbral mods for those weapon types. My answer riven mods. How many times have you found a weapon you truly love and try and try to roll a riven to get the stats you want but can’t get lucky after a few hundred rolls you tend to give up and get another riven that might be more appealing or you unveil one with the roll you want but oh no the polarity is different than the one I have. Most maximized weapons require 4-9 forma and are pretty much settled in snug meaning have no room for change causing you to have to repolarize the weapon to fit the riven in. But with the universal umbra polarity that’s a problem of the past you can switch out rivens and dust your hands off never have to worry about that again. Same for elemental prime mods

Primed cryo rounds for example usually requires you to run a vazarin polarity but if you aren’t trying to run viral or magnetic elemental combo (cold + toxic) (cold + electric) the only other other vazarin polarity mods you would be running is either hammershot or rifle aptitude. There isn’t any room for variation so you are stuck with it but if you had a universal umbra polarity you can easily switch to another element or mod entirely (typically the naramon or maduri polarity) without” being in the red”[incompatible polarization slot] 

 

In short warframe is a game about freedom to build and play the way you want to. Allowing umbra formas to become universal formas like aura formas or stance formas would open up a way for more customization without restrictions. The umbra formas are rare and only come by soo often this would really make them that much better and sought after. Please DE help us 

[(XBOX)CravingStream87]

I think this makes great sense, and would make a much more broad use for mods that have become bottlenecked into or out of use

[Tiltskillet]

7 minutes ago, (XBOX)RealBoyMoss said:

In short warframe is a game about freedom to build and play the way you want to.

Clearly it's a game about freedom to build and play the way you want to...while figuring out how to deal with some broad constraints.

Anyway, universal or near-universal forma may come eventually, but I think there is zero chance it's going to be something that gets plopped into the inventories of people who've already collected Umbra forma. I don't think they'll even be something that replaces new Umbral forma, not directly.

Instead it'll be a big new carrot in an expansion, or a rare but regular encouragement to stick with the game like Umbra forma are now.

[Pakaku]

Pretty sure the devs rely on forma restrictions as part of their income, and have outright said at some point that a universal forma is never happening

[(XBOX)Teddiebear3357]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)RealBoyMoss said:

The Umbra Forma should become a universal polarity. 
 

The Umbra forma is a rare commodity one we can only get every 8 weeks via Teshin for 150 steel essence, once per night wave cycle as an end tier reward, and the rare occasional twitch stream drop. The umbra polarity is great for frames that need that extra clean power strength, health, or armor which is nice however it tends to bind the frame into only that. Meaning if you want to run a frame for multiple purposes or builds you are essentially stuck with that type of build since the only mods that fit there are the umbral mods. Since the release of the archon mods such as archon vitality it requires you to rework your frame to accommodate that and doesn’t allow the freedom of build configurations you are essentially chained to the umbral polarity.

Because of the hefty 16 capacity of a max umbra mod and the combined increase effectiveness of running umbral mods together it’s essential to at least run 2 umbral mods together which at the end of the day means you need to have at least 2 umbral polarities on the warframe. This tends to be an issue with some frames for this example I will use Volt. Volt has many uses for this I’ll go over 2 builds the eidolon hunting build, and a range discharge build. 
 

This eidolon build requires all 3 umbral mods and 2 umbra polarities giving volt boosted tao resistance, health, armor, and strength making casual eidolon hunts easier. However when we switch over to configuration B the discharge build I’m now forced to use umbral intensify + vitality/fiber however to maximize this build we don’t need health, or armor on this build but instead just strength, range, duration forcing the player to tip toe around the umbra polarities. Meaning we do not use one of the umbral mods and instead place a mod in the umbral polarity spot but because of mix matched polarities whatever mod gets placed there is now red and costs more capacity forcing us to use lower rank/ unleveled mods, or completely dropping a mod from exilus slot in order to squeak by the capacity requirements. Effectively making it impossible to maximize the frames potential. Which leaves the only options to remove the umbra polarity which is a waste because these things are rare they only come around once every 2 months or to build an entire new frame to be able to run different configurations at maximized efficiency which either way is not cool. 
 

To fix this if the umbra polarity was changed to a universal polarity it would remove the chains of the umbra polarity on builds giving freedom to configure your build however you want if you want to run archon vitality on configuration A and run umbral vitality on configuration B you could because the umbra polarity would be a universal polarity anything fits there! Just like stance forma for the melees and the aura formas for the warframes! 
 

The universal umbra forma could even be used on primary weapons and secondary weapons. You may ask why would you do that there aren’t even any umbral mods for those weapon types. My answer riven mods. How many times have you found a weapon you truly love and try and try to roll a riven to get the stats you want but can’t get lucky after a few hundred rolls you tend to give up and get another riven that might be more appealing or you unveil one with the roll you want but oh no the polarity is different than the one I have. Most maximized weapons require 4-9 forma and are pretty much settled in snug meaning have no room for change causing you to have to repolarize the weapon to fit the riven in. But with the universal umbra polarity that’s a problem of the past you can switch out rivens and dust your hands off never have to worry about that again. Same for elemental prime mods

Primed cryo rounds for example usually requires you to run a vazarin polarity but if you aren’t trying to run viral or magnetic elemental combo (cold + toxic) (cold + electric) the only other other vazarin polarity mods you would be running is either hammershot or rifle aptitude. There isn’t any room for variation so you are stuck with it but if you had a universal umbra polarity you can easily switch to another element or mod entirely (typically the naramon or maduri polarity) without” being in the red”[incompatible polarization slot] 

 

In short warframe is a game about freedom to build and play the way you want to. Allowing umbra formas to become universal formas like aura formas or stance formas would open up a way for more customization without restrictions. The umbra formas are rare and only come by soo often this would really make them that much better and sought after. Please DE help us 

Yes! I like this, makes good sense!

[RLanzinger]

@(XBOX)RealBoyMoss

Na, Umbra is Sentient oriented and his MODS are linked to this and thus should no be universal 'cause :

First, Changing the Umbra slots will render his mods Useless or will render others ones Useless... both cases are bad.

Secondly, Umbra polarity is "Rare" which mean not something I can fit on all my Warframes (almost got them all) so If Umbra become universal, it will only profit a very few number of Warframe THEN limiting the diversity of Play. This may profit YOU if you play with 2-3 warframes only but it will not encourage DIVERSITY.

Lastly, Umbra MODS are a very specialised one that should not be on all Warframes. There is only 5 mods, a "Niche" style of play and the Forma / Warframe to use them should stay a few numbers too. I used these mods very rarely during the last "sentient" quest or event !!!

Boosting Umbra Polarity to Universal IS a bad and LAZY design... Freedom to do anything will not profit our gameplay SO ON MY DEAD BODY 🤣

[(XBOX)RealBoyMoss]

@RLanzinger
I’m saying allow the forma to be universal so it will match any polarity not just umbra, if you place the universal polarity on the frame/weapon it will match the polarity of umbra and make it cost 1/2 (turn green) for it and any other mod 

Edited October 22, 2023 by (XBOX)RealBoyMoss

[R3M1xed]

I like the Idea. The main issue I have with Umbral Forma is that I am forced to waste them by re-forma'ing, or farming for/purchasing a new warframe and warframe slot in order to utilize new mods that come out with future content (I.E Archon mods). The umbral mods would still be viable on any frames requiring power strength because of Umbral Intensify. Not being able to switch between Archon Intensify and Umbral Intensify on the same warframe means I need to focus builds around avoiding certain helminth abillities (healing vs not) in order to have a specific build function the way I would like. Because of this, I feel like Umbral Forma in their current state is only truly useful on Melee weapons to maximize crit chance.

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

45 minutes ago, RLanzinger said:

@(XBOX)RealBoyMoss

Na, Umbra is Sentient oriented and his MODS are linked to this and thus should no be universal 'cause :

First, Changing the Umbra slots will render his mods Useless or will render others ones Useless... both cases are bad.

Secondly, Umbra polarity is "Rare" which mean not something I can fit on all my Warframes (almost got them all) so If Umbra become universal, it will only profit a very few number of Warframe THEN limiting the diversity of Play. This may profit YOU if you play with 2-3 warframes only but it will not encourage DIVERSITY.

Lastly, Umbra MODS are a very specialised one that should not be on all Warframes. There is only 5 mods, a "Niche" style of play and the Forma / Warframe to use them should stay a few numbers too. I used these mods very rarely during the last "sentient" quest or event !!!

Boosting Umbra Polarity to Universal IS a bad and LAZY design... Freedom to do anything will not profit our gameplay SO ON MY DEAD BODY 🤣

Not what op was saying.

[Zakkhar]

Thanks guys, almost missed my Umbra Forma this week. I'll add it to the pile.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Zakkhar

[(NSW)Greybones]

I disagree. Because it’s so rare and specialised, it should be treated with care; if someone’s going to go throwing it onto every Warframe because they need to build their problems away instead of playing better, then they should be disincentivised from doing that and learn how to make do without Umbra until they really really need it or they’re really really certain they want it

[rawr1254]

Id be happier with if you needed to forma out an umbra slot itd refund the umbra forma. imo a universal forma should be even harder to get than an umbra forma if it ever existed

[(XBOX)RealBoyMoss]

@rawr1254 that is a cool concept, but if the umbra forma was changed to a universal slot you wouldn’t have to forma the slot off because anything would fit in the slot. Currently you can only obtain 6 umbra forma a year by buying them from Teshins steel path honors (once every 8 weeks) saying you actively farm steel essence, and 1 maybe 2 a year if nightwaves cycle and you actually complete 95% of the rewards. Along with an occasional twitch stream umbra forma drop or gift of the lotus if you are able to catch it in time means at most you can get 8-10 umbra formas a year. There are about 700 items that this could potentially be used on id say it’s pretty rare.

[(XBOX)RealBoyMoss]

@(NSW)Greybones absolutely the universal umbra polarity would have to be handled with care, currently the only way to obtain umbra forma is from teshins steel path honors once every 8 weeks so 6 forma total a year, nightwave rewards which nightwave cycles maybe 2 times a year and you have to earn 95% of the rewards  and the occasional twitch stream drop/ gift of the lotus if you are fortunate enough to be on and catch it so total 8-10 umbra forma can be earned a year. With the universal polarity application there are around 700 items that this could be applied to. That requires critical decision making on where to place this forma and treat it with care 

[(NSW)Greybones]

5 minutes ago, (XBOX)RealBoyMoss said:

@(NSW)Greybones absolutely the universal umbra polarity would have to be handled with care, currently the only way to obtain umbra forma is from teshins steel path honors once every 8 weeks so 6 forma total a year, nightwave rewards which nightwave cycles maybe 2 times a year and you have to earn 95% of the rewards  and the occasional twitch stream drop/ gift of the lotus if you are fortunate enough to be on and catch it so total 8-10 umbra forma can be earned a year. With the universal polarity application there are around 700 items that this could be applied to. That requires critical decision making on where to place this forma and treat it with care 

I am absolutely not talking from the perspective of Universal Forma being a thing in the first place; I’m talking about the current incarnation of Umbral Forma and how it falls on the player to be considerate of whether they need a thing or not.

And right now the incarnation of Umbra Forma is that it’s rare, and it has a potential downside; you better be considerate of when to use it. If you bring Universal Forma, a rare strict upgrade, to the table and lay it out in front of a bunch of players who already only want more with no consideration for the cost, they will either destroy themselves getting it or demand it not be so limited so that they can destroy themselves getting it.

Umbra Forma, with its limits and as part of the whole specialising system that Forma allows, is in a fine spot to be valuable enough to consider, but not so valuable as to be considered mandatory (a concept this community already struggles with when they build everything the same way and then complain about lack of build variety)

[(XBOX)ElitistOdin42]

I couldn’t have said it any better myself 

[quxier]

On 2023-10-22 at 11:14 PM, RLanzinger said:

 

Lastly, Umbra MODS are a very specialised one that should not be on all Warframes. There is only 5 mods, a "Niche" style of play and the Forma / Warframe to use them should stay a few numbers too. I used these mods very rarely during the last "sentient" quest or event !!!

That mods just boost your stats, sometimes more than other similar mods. Is there some kind of new mod or interaction that I'm not aware of? Otherwise it's just very similar mods, not specialised nor makes gameplay "niche".

[Packetdancer]

Since I suspect just converting Umbral polarity into a universal polarity is a non-starter, here's my alternate suggestion: let me apply forma to specific configurations, like picking which config Helminth abilities apply to.

When I forma a slot, I get to flip toggle switches to determine which configs it goes to: I can thus put Umbra forma on only Config A. Or I could put it on all configs, then use normal forma to clear the polarity of those slots on Config C specifically. (And when you pay plat for an extra config slot, you get to pick one of the existing slots to copy the mod polarities from.)

With that solution Umbra forma remain rare and precious, but you can have more build flexibility across different configs on a frame. And you can't argue that it hurts the forma market, because it involves using more forma. Yes, it does involve changing how a frame's polarity layout is stored on the servers, so I do confess there's some added overhead and complexity, but it still seems a reasonable compromise solution to me.

[Xrylene]

Forma to specific configurations would indeed be extremely useful and would fix the main issue of needing to go all in on them. Another solution which could be used as an alternative, or alongside such a change, would be to expand the pool of umbra mods such that they are less niche. The current ones only cover some very basic mod types, however there are other basic mod types that could have umbra versions, meaning instead of needing the specific 3 for warframes and 2 for melee that we have, you might mix and match. Consider for example Redirection, Stretch, Streamline and Continuity for warframes, covering shields and the other ability focused mods, then for melee maybe Prowess, Fury, and Killing Blow/Reflex Coil could be options to lean into status, speed and heavy attacks, though admittedly Prowess as is might be a bit too weak to really consider.

Point being, the problem currently is both that your slots are locked to this investment in a more constraining way than normal forma(significantly so considering you could make a forma per day), and that the actual benefits are somewhat niche due to being locked to only one specific configuration that can be used to begin with. If some umbra mods were interchangeable for other basic enabling mod types, then there may be more incentive to use umbral forma on warframes and weapons that might not otherwise make use of them currently.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

Yeah they likely won't change existing umbral formas... At best they will eventually release an universal forma, make it super rare.

[Aerophobius]

Here is my suggestion:
Allow Umbra Forma to add the Umbra polarity to already polarised slots instead of overwriting it. (And allow regular Forma to polarise slots without overwriting an existing Umbra polarity.)
That way Umbra polarities don't block slots from being used for other mods, making those slots future-content-proof, keeping rarities intact, and all that without making modding/configs more complicated.

[Sojufueled]

Full blown universal might be a bit much, but I have had buyers remorse on some of my umbral polarities lately. It would be nice if they were at worst neutral.

[Famecans]

The problem is not the the Forma's expenses, the problem is the forge time of Forma.

I practically ignore all blueprints of forma mainly aura forma because the forge time is insanely expensive.

I would recommend DE to reduce the forma forge time to 60 minutes, this means that in 3/4 hours of gameplay the player can build 3 formas.

The DE should consider this because 3 hours of gameplay is a lot of time in the game as it is possible to acquire more forma packs on market trade, but the focus here is not the market but rather the simplification of the act of opening relics forge blueprints and put 3 Formas in less than 3/4 hours.🤷‍♂️

[Aerophobius]

Here is evidence of Umbra Forma absolutely demolishing my best Inaros config: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3138277344

Edited January 13 by Aerophobius
going to stay on topic

[Merkranire]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:53 PM, Aerophobius said:

Here is evidence of Umbra Forma absolutely demolishing my best Inaros config: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3138277344

Confusion abounds