ping limit and opt-out of matchmaking + bad ping report option

[SDGDen]

hi, im on PC and on the EU region, normally i get around 33ms ping. i have gigabit fiber networking that's insanely stable.

 

so why in the unholy clem do i get matchmade with hosts that net me and the rest of the non-host players a consistent 1.6 SECONDS of ping... on an alert nonetheless (the tenno united 3 forma alert).

 

in my opinion, DE should do the following:
>fix the matchmaking ping limit since it's clearly not working
>add a way for players that have bad internet or a bad computer to opt out of hosting. 
>have a way to "report" players for unplayable ping, with multiple reports they should automatically be opted out of hosting (i dont mean to ban them obviously. often times bad ping is beyond their control) 


edit: and before people claim this was a crossplay issue, everyone was on PC. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by SDGDen

[Chewarette]

Reporting for bad ping sounds like an insanely  bad idea

[ReddyDisco]

19 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

add a way for players that have bad internet or a bad computer to opt out of hosting. 

yikes

21 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

have a way to "report" players for unplayable ping, with multiple reports they should automatically be opted out of hosting (i dont mean to ban them obviously. often times bad ping is beyond their control) 

what are you smoking?

 

instead of these insane takes just set your ping limit to 100, that way you become host more often.

[SneakyErvin]

I'm not sure the report thing would work properly since many people would probably report others simply for high ping. I mean there are clear cases of bad hosts, like when you end up with someone showing 30ms but it lags like you had 1500ms and the 30ms fluctuates between say 30-35ms constantly as if their connection has a seizure.

But yeah, opt out options for hosting would be a good idea. And an improvement for the matchmaker aswell so our ping limiter actually matters. If I set it to the minimal value I shouldnt end up with people above that, atleast not end up with a 150ms+ host if I have 50ms set for instance.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

1 hour ago, SDGDen said:

hi, im on PC and on the EU region, normally i get around 33ms ping. i have gigabit fiber networking that's insanely stable.

 

so why in the unholy clem do i get matchmade with hosts that net me and the rest of the non-host players a consistent 1.6 SECONDS of ping... on an alert nonetheless (the tenno united 3 forma alert).

 

in my opinion, DE should do the following:
>fix the matchmaking ping limit since it's clearly not working
>add a way for players that have bad internet or a bad computer to opt out of hosting. 
>have a way to "report" players for unplayable ping, with multiple reports they should automatically be opted out of hosting (i dont mean to ban them obviously. often times bad ping is beyond their control) 


edit: and before people claim this was a crossplay issue, everyone was on PC. 

Sounds like you need a Gaming Router

lets you set up filters that aren't available in-game, like block specific ips that you've had bad experiences, even whole geo regions

Some of them will even let you do borderline shady things, like Force Host...

[xMarvin732]

in Options you can go under SYSTEM and change PC Type of Desktop, should be able to end up more as a host.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

Wtf don't report me for bad ping

[Zakkhar]

3 hours ago, SDGDen said:

so why in the unholy clem do i get matchmade with hosts that net me and the rest of the non-host players a consistent 1.6 SECONDS of ping... on an alert nonetheless (the tenno united 3 forma alert).

System is P2P. There is no way of checking what latency to the host will everyone have. Hosts are picked on random.

The options ping treshold doesnt to anything with matchamaking, it only gives you a warning when manually joining hosts with ping over treshhold.

2 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

instead of these insane takes just set your ping limit to 100, that way you become host more often.

Doesnt do what you think it does.

[Myscho]

2 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

instead of these insane takes just set your ping limit to 100, that way you become host more often.

If that actually work. but it doesnt for years

[Nekomian]

3 hours ago, SDGDen said:

so why in the unholy clem do i get matchmade with hosts that net me and the rest of the non-host players a consistent 1.6 SECONDS of ping... on an alert nonetheless (the tenno united 3 forma alert).

The ping was probably fine when it first connected to the host's IP and tested it, so it decided to join; you can do a quick check in your EE log to confirm this, it shows a bunch of potential matchmaking connections with "bait untaken" for users it does not choose, and the final one it does choose, as well as the latency to them. It also uses some internal "ELO" system to matchmake players near your rank I've noticed, but I have no idea how that works as it's not really disclosed.

3 hours ago, SDGDen said:

>add a way for players that have bad internet or a bad computer to opt out of hosting.

The "PC Type" setting used to do that for prioritizing hosts on desktop vs clients on laptop; they should probably rework that in some capacity, though I'm not even sure if it still works with crossplay at all.

3 hours ago, SDGDen said:

have a way to "report" players for unplayable ping, with multiple reports they should automatically be opted out of hosting

I don't think players should be punished for momentary internet spikes that may be out of their control entirely; this isn't a competitive PvP game where those kinds of things may give some unfair advantage or something, at most it's just inconvenient as things are delayed. Maybe the system could de-prioritize inconsistent connections from hosting, but reporting users for it or outright disabling them from hosting is a bit much. It's annoying sure, but players do not need to be punished for this.

[Waeleto]

You want to report players for having bad internet ? are you literally out of your mind ? just play solo if you're this toxic omg

[Hexerin]

8 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

It's annoying sure, but players do not need to be punished for this.

Letting players with trash internet be lobby hosts, is punishing players who actually have reasonable internet.

[Nekomian]

8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Letting players with trash internet be lobby hosts, is punishing players who actually have reasonable internet.

A 1s delay on enemy hit registration is inconvenient, but it is not "punishing". Connectivity is also volatile and dynamic, since the internet is just connected servers / systems; it could very well be your specific network path to the host rather than the host's computer or their equipment, which is out of both of your controls. It's not always as simple as "user X has trash net, report", and I would not want or expect any system like that as it can cause incorrect assumptions ("it could never be my internet, it's perfect") or abuse (mass reports of a user make it so they cannot host).

Edited November 5, 2023 by Naroxas44
clarifications

[Hexerin]

4 minutes ago, Naroxas44 said:

A 1s delay on enemy hit registration is inconvenient, but it is not "punishing".

 

[Hidoi]

all your problems could be fixed by going to the settings and putting your matchmaking ping limit to 50-100, that way you'll get to host more often. also punishing people for bad ping isn't really a good idea.

[KIREEK]

What you want to do then is to be the host, you seem to have a nearly perfect connection that is also fast, so you are a good option to be one.

I noticed however that your quit rate is at 7% and a completion rate at 89%, this isn't bad, but you can certainly improve on this. Why am i mentioning this?
When you are the host, to provide the best care for the players in the community, you need to be reliable, so if you follow the steps i will tell you, please don't go around forcing host migrations willy nilly, not that you can't, it's just that players don't enjoy the migration process.

What you need to do is set the ping limit to the lowest possible and then change regions, if you are in the EU then change to NA, if you are in NA then change to EU.

The game will hardly ever find a suitable game for you, so it starts the mission with you being the host, other players will then join you.

As for reporting users where the connection fails at points, that i don't need to say much, the users in this topic already explained why it's bad.

[kamisama85]

OP do you realize that to everyone outside of the EU, you have "bad ping" too? Doesnt matter if you have fiber or Gigabit internet because longer distances across the globe will always account for higher latency.

Edited November 5, 2023 by kamisama85
Spelling

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, kamisama85 said:

OP do you realize that to everyone outside of the EU, you have "bad ping" too? Doesnt matter if you have fiber or Gigabit internet because longer distances across the globe will always account for higher latency.

That's a hilariously bad take, for one very obvious reason:

Edited November 5, 2023 by Hexerin

[Dreadlox]

So many here is furious :D He suggested to players have high ping can't be hosts. Not to ban them from the game. And i think this is fine. If they have poor connection, they shouldn't host matches, or when someone join they take over the hosting. I think thats a good thing. They can continue their mission without stucking on doors.

I really hate the game always choose players with poor internet connection instead who can host properly.

[Aruquae]

On 2023-11-05 at 8:13 AM, SDGDen said:

have a way to "report" players for unplayable ping, with multiple reports they should automatically be opted out of hosting (i dont mean to ban them obviously. often times bad ping is beyond their control) 

No, this can’t work. This is just shaming people on whatever platform they’re on. The last thing I need is realizing I can’t host with my other switch buddies simply because I’ve been reported for giving others trash connection. That would suck 

 

On 2023-11-05 at 8:13 AM, SDGDen said:

 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb Waeleto:

You want to report players for having bad internet ? are you literally out of your mind ? just play solo if you're this toxic omg

yes. i check other locations. i play at night sometimes and join na.

and!!! omg!!! warframe has very short games........................................ why not just join other people?

[(PSN)Unstar]

On 2023-11-05 at 5:13 AM, SDGDen said:

so why in the unholy clem do i get matchmade with hosts that net me and the rest of the non-host players a consistent 1.6 SECONDS of ping... on an alert nonetheless (the tenno united 3 forma alert).

Have you tried adjust the in-game setting for what you consider the minimum acceptable ping to be with other players? 

[SDGDen]

On 2023-11-05 at 2:28 PM, Chewarette said:

Reporting for bad ping sounds like an insanely  bad idea

well currently, if you want to report a bad experience due to host having dial-up, you'd have to report for griefing which i find to be inaccurate. DE should be able to ensure a decent gameplay experience for everyone and within that, it makes sense to switch someone's host setting to "never host" if they've been reported for having a measurably terrible ping multiple times. 

On 2023-11-05 at 4:05 PM, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Sounds like you need a Gaming Router

lets you set up filters that aren't available in-game, like block specific ips that you've had bad experiences, even whole geo regions

Some of them will even let you do borderline shady things, like Force Host...

i have one, UPNP takes care of portforwarding, i have a static public IP anyways. i work in networking so i'm well aware of all these options, however "just be a tech nerd" doesn't solve the sometimes unplayable experience for those who are less technically inclined.

 

On 2023-11-05 at 5:55 PM, Waeleto said:

You want to report players for having bad internet ? are you literally out of your mind ? just play solo if you're this toxic omg

yes, i do. i want to put a note on their account for DE and when many of those notes have piled up, i want DE to make it so that player cannot host public missions anymore. do note: that's not "ban them from the game". if someone cannot host a functional public lobby and has shown that multiple times, they should not be able to continue hosting public lobbies.

a report isn't just a tool to ban people with, it's a tool to report bad experiences to DE so they can take the appropriate action to fix that bad experience. i said as much in my post, i do not wish to ban people for bad connections, that'd be ridiculous.

also, "just play solo" does not solve the broader issue of players getting put into matches where it takes 1 to 2 seconds for their shots to register.

 

On 2023-11-05 at 6:47 PM, Hidoi said:

all your problems could be fixed by going to the settings and putting your matchmaking ping limit to 50-100, that way you'll get to host more often. also punishing people for bad ping isn't really a good idea.

my ping limit is 100.

my point isn't "punish them", my point is someone who cannot host, should not host. if you MEASURABLY cannot host, and multiple real players can back up that they've had terrible experiences when you host, then you should not be allowed to host.

On 2023-11-05 at 7:12 PM, KIREEK said:

What you want to do then is to be the host, you seem to have a nearly perfect connection that is also fast, so you are a good option to be one.

I noticed however that your quit rate is at 7% and a completion rate at 89%, this isn't bad, but you can certainly improve on this. Why am i mentioning this?
When you are the host, to provide the best care for the players in the community, you need to be reliable, so if you follow the steps i will tell you, please don't go around forcing host migrations willy nilly, not that you can't, it's just that players don't enjoy the migration process.

What you need to do is set the ping limit to the lowest possible and then change regions, if you are in the EU then change to NA, if you are in NA then change to EU.

The game will hardly ever find a suitable game for you, so it starts the mission with you being the host, other players will then join you.

As for reporting users where the connection fails at points, that i don't need to say much, the users in this topic already explained why it's bad.

i already have my ping limit at 100, i've found that if i switch my region to NA it results in being solo practically all the time (weirdly, when i play together in a premade squad with someone from NA region it's completely fine, under 100 ms ping) 

as for my quit rate and host migrations, i actually avoid causing host migrations as much as possible! most of my quit rate is because i frequently quit out of solo missions after testing something. my network is stable enough to be host just fine (i think my home server has 99.5% uptime over the last 6 months, with that 0.5% downtime being maintenance and a single 3AM scheduled router update) 

 

13 hours ago, Dreadlox said:

So many here is furious :D He suggested to players have high ping can't be hosts. Not to ban them from the game. And i think this is fine. If they have poor connection, they shouldn't host matches, or when someone join they take over the hosting. I think thats a good thing. They can continue their mission without stucking on doors.

I really hate the game always choose players with poor internet connection instead who can host properly.

honestly, in terms of the opt-out it's not even just internet connection. i'd have killed for an opt-out function back when i ran an A10-7800 CPU since if i was hosting it'd struggle with the infested on akkad due to having to run their AI, i now run an R7-5700G but the minimum spec is far below that A10 and people still run warframe on hardware that old. 

 

[Chewarette]

10 hours ago, SDGDen said:

well currently, if you want to report a bad experience due to host having dial-up, you'd have to report for griefing which i find to be inaccurate. DE should be able to ensure a decent gameplay experience for everyone and within that, it makes sense to switch someone's host setting to "never host" if they've been reported for having a measurably terrible ping multiple times. 

A ping issue can also come from your connection. Furthermore, it also depends on both geographical locations - you might have a ping issue with the host but not the other 2 guys.

I don't really understand what's so problematic in having a "bad" ping that it requires you to start a crusade against the guy instead of just leaving the group and re-tagging, which takes a whole 10 seconds and generally solve your problem forever.

And then what ? You report the host, he gets "Host Banned" by DE, and then he gets fiber optics installed at home the week later. Does he need to send proof he can host ? Will DE send someone at his home to test the connectivity ? Or the simple fact of him saying "It's OK now heheh" will be enough ? What's the "break point" at which a host is declared unworthy ? 10Mbs ? 100Mbs ? 10Gbs ? Do we need to testify on hour honor that even with fiber, we won't be downloading movies like crazy in the background ? That's just impossible to put in place.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Chewarette

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb SDGDen:

DE should be able to ensure a decent gameplay experience for everyone 

Yes, by adding dedicated servers. 

Not by punishing players and ban them from hosting. 

This is a digital extremes problem, and not on the players. Stop this rhetoric and actually address the devs using outdated systems in a 2023 game which is literally the only game having these issues these days.