How EXACTLY does reducing enemy accuracy work?

[4thBro]

Does it just make them shoot somewhere that isn't where I am at?

That's my assumption. And if that's the case... won't that, at least semi-often, contradict itself if I'm moving, and they are aiming at where I AM in that moment, but they shoot somewhere else... but since I'm MOVING, I'm actually moving into it, making enemies accidentally properly lead their shots so that they actually do hit me???

 

I dunno if some enemies are hit scan, which I suppose would make inaccuracy good against them in particular, but anything with projectile speed, I have to wonder.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

15 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Does it just make them shoot somewhere that isn't where I am at?

Pretty much!

18 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

That's my assumption. And if that's the case... won't that, at least semi-often, contradict itself if I'm moving, and they are aiming at where I AM in that moment, but they shoot somewhere else... but since I'm MOVING, I'm actually moving into it, making enemies accidentally properly lead their shots so that they actually do hit me???

So hitscanners like the grineer will simply miss or hit.
Non-hitscanners will have this issue, but i feel that is balanced out by the fact that an attack that is supposed to hit can still be dodged

[KitMeHarder]

Evasion is an alright stat if a frame has a high amount baked into their kit without needing to build for it, like Titania. But otherwise, it's a pretty meh and inconsequential stat IMO.

From what I understand, when an enemy aims at you, they're hit with a debuff similar to the Heavy Caliber mod's negative. So here's some points for context.

• It does nothing to melee
• You can still easily get hit. 25% evasion does not mean 25% of all bullets can't hit you
• Negative accuracy (evasion) affects certain guns very little (i.e. beams) and other guns quite a lot (i.e. I believe Supra)
• You can largely test how enemy weapons will react to negative accuracy yourself by putting on said corrupted mods (*to a certain extent).

Edited November 7, 2023 by KitMeHarder

[taiiat]

yeah, their reduced accuracy could theoretically make them hit you by accident (in the case of Projectiles, especially Explosives). the probability is pretty low though, and even if it happens you have successfully preventing like, atleast 90% of all of their incoming Damage as it is anyways.

look at it from their perspective. if your shot is going to functionally anywhere in a Vertical 2D plane from your Eyes, the probability of any shot you fire to hit is incredibly low. you can even say that since this mainly just affects Projectiles, it's 180*180 Degrees of possibility since you could have aimed too close or too far in addition to 2D dispersion.

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , 4thBro 说:

That's my assumption. And if that's the case... won't that, at least semi-often, contradict itself if I'm moving, and they are aiming at where I AM in that moment, but they shoot somewhere else... but since I'm MOVING, I'm actually moving into it, making enemies accidentally properly lead their shots so that they actually do hit me???

Probability 101.

Scenario #1

The enemy fires 1 bullet. The bullet has 90% chance of hitting where you stand (target) and 10% chance of missing by 1 meter on your left (miss). 

When the bullet was fired, and then you moved 1 meter to your left. What is the probability of getting hit by that bullet? Is it 90%, or less than 90%?

Scenario #2

The enemy fires 1 bullet. The bullet has 1% chance of hitting where you stand (target) and 99% chance of missing by 1 meter on your left (miss). 

When the bullet was fired, and then you moved 1 meter to your left. What is the probability of getting hit by that bullet? Is it 1%, or more than 1%?

[Hexerin]

There's two stats that affect enemies firing at you:

Accuracy reductions cause the enemy to fire their weapon at you, but offset in a random direction. Basically, it turns their guns into shotguns that fire each pellet in a burst rather than all at once. There's certain mods or other effects that can inflict this on the enemy, but they also suffer it anytime they attempt to fire on a player who is in the process of performing a parkour maneuver (especially noticeable if you're in the air).

Evasion increases on the player gives them a percent chance to just straight up ignore a given projectile that would have otherwise hit them. It's actually wild if you see this in action, as the incoming projectile literally bends its flight path to forcefully miss you.

This both stack, but not directly. Reduce their accuracy so they're less likely to actually fire an accurate shot, while evasion will give you a chance to evade them when they do.

[KitMeHarder]

44 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Evasion increases on the player gives them a percent chance to just straight up ignore a given projectile that would have otherwise hit them. It's actually wild if you see this in action, as the incoming projectile literally bends its flight path to forcefully miss you.

No, this is incorrect.

• Accuracy reduction is applied to enemies, making them more likely to miss no matter what they shoot at.
• Evasion is applied to you and reduces enemy accuracy, but only when they aim at YOU.

What you're thinking of is Dodge Chance, which gives all direct damage a percent chance to deal no damage (including melee). Only Barruk and Xaku have this afaik.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Buff_%26_Debuff/Buffs/Defense

[Tiltskillet]

For your amusement, I'll leave a  not-so-quick-but dirty and not particularly helpful test comparison I did, timing shield break on Nyx and Ash against 6 L185 SP Corpus Techs.  Both were modded for 1604 shields, otherwise essentially unmodded.  I'd spawn the goons, step a little to the left of the console, and only start the timer once I took a shield hit. 
 

Spoiler

Time to shield beak in rounded seconds, 10 tests each, Ash // Nyx:

11 // 7

30 // 29

9 // 9

48 // 8

6 // 5

7 // 6

19 // 18

7 // 24

12 // 12

17 // 12

16.6 // 13.0 average

My main take away from this is that a lot of enemies can't hit ****.   Corpus Techs were the most accurate I found that weren't snipers, AoE, or have inconvenient secondary attacks like grenades.

Second take away is, wow, there's a lot of variability in those times.   So much so that somebody will look at it and think Nyx's Evasion passive is doing the opposite of what it's supposed to do.  I don't really think that's what's going on.   If I took out that crazy 48s time, where maybe some AI broke, the averages are almost exactly the same. The most I'd say is it might illustrate why players don't rely on evasion.  And that more tests should be done and they should probably involve simple movement. It seems plausible that Evasion isn't doing anything if the player is standing still.  

5 hours ago, 4thBro said:

And if that's the case... won't that, at least semi-often, contradict itself if I'm moving, and they are aiming at where I AM in that moment, but they shoot somewhere else... but since I'm MOVING, I'm actually moving into it, making enemies accidentally properly lead their shots so that they actually do hit me???

This will definitely happen, as it happens a shocking amount with standard enemy (in)accuracy.   I think Evasion will still be beneficial, and I really don't think it makes this worse..  But I don't have data to back that up.

There is some useful info about accuracy in the wiki.  Evasion, Enemy Accuracy . 

[Traumtulpe]

Evasion is a nothing stat. In particular since enemy accuracy goes up with level, try playing the circuit and you'll notice enemies hitscan snipe you from the other side of the map while you're bullet jumping, once the level starts going up significantly.

[Nira]

I hear Storm Troopers and Corpus Techs went to the same school of marksmanship!

[(PSN)robotwars7]

18 minutes ago, Nira said:

I hear Storm Troopers and Corpus Techs went to the same school of marksmanship!

Techs don't really *need* accuracy though, they're running the Supra, which is basically a laser LMG; a weapon that is all about volume of sustained fire rather than precise marksmanship: spray and pray is the order of the day.

Sniper Crewmen on the other hand, are atrociously inaccurate with a weapon that depends on it. they were probably the easiest of all ranged corpus units, until DE gave them Ratel Pads.. now they're the reason the floor is never safe on long corpus missions lol. 

to OP though, anything regarding evasion/debuffing enemy accuracy values is only good if there's a lot of it, and there are far more viable options for protecting yourself, even with the squishiest of frames. there's simply no real reason to mod for it.

[0_The_F00l]

It is rather inconsequential in most scenarios unless you are looking at more than 50% accuracy debuff ,

Also Just cause it is inaccurate does not mean it won't hit you , 

It may be aiming at your head and hit your leg and vice versa ,

The most pronounced effect will be on accurate single shot weapons , like the snipers and pistols.

Things that have a cone of effect (shotguns , auto weapons ) are less affected due to the nature of their spread.

Projectile weapons with speed are going to have a more visible effect , but if you move around a lot it will also be not that obvious.

[SneakyErvin]

It increases the chance that an enemy will miss you. So for someone like Titania that gets 50% evasion from Tribute and 50% from Razorwing would afaik double the innate miss chance of an enemy trying to shoot her. So if the enemy has a 15% miss chance it would be 30% in that case. Then it depends how the weapon works, since even if the shot should miss it can still hit.

Not to be confused with dodge chance, which is a guaranteed roll against any attack that would otherwise land and if that roll succeeds you take no damage. That does however only apply to uhm 2 frames and uhm 1 pet(?).

[(PSN)Unstar]

15 hours ago, 4thBro said:

How EXACTLY does reducing enemy accuracy work?  Does it just make them shoot somewhere that isn't where I am at?

[Tiltskillet]

5 hours ago, Nira said:

I hear Storm Troopers and Corpus Techs went to the same school of marksmanship!

Corpus Techs are bad, but not one of the worst units.  There were many others that couldn't break my shields setting up my test.   Mainly because their accuracy was so horrendous against a motionless target at that range, and they were unwilling to get into a better range.  And truth be told, it often wasn't much better at~60% of that range either.