Does Limbo need a buff?

[Dijin73]

I am a Limbo main, and I think Limbo is great, but ever since the update that buffed eximus units, playing him has been very annoying. Their aura cannot only affect you, but also damage you to the point where you die while in the rift. On top of that, you can't damage them while you're in the rift even though they can damage you.

I personally think that the buff to eximus units is a good thing. Them not being able to be affected by crowd control is a nice touch; It makes them more of a challenge, but Limbo's survivability is going into the rift and being untouchable. It's fine if they're not affected by stasis, but for them to be able to damage and kill Limbo while he's supposed to be untouchable completely removes this survivability. 

I think he needs a buff. What do y'all think?

Edit: I think Limbo is fine as is, but I think a buff that would deal with the problem stated above would definitely help.

Edited December 11, 2023 by (NSW)Zangetsu73
Clarification

[Aruquae]

Honestly, he needs a rework 

I too use Limbo, second most used frame, but the fact that 3 out of 4 abilities are for bringing things into the rift sucks. Not to mention the rift is so restrictive, it feels like it’s a liability rather than his “thing.” 
One of the changes he needs is his passive. No I’m not talking about into the rift, I’m talking about the portal he sharts after. There’s no reason to have that portal appear, it’s just further awareness when going into the rift. 
Edit: Forgot to mention the cataclysm shrinking, causing some weird obstructions. If anything it should grow, fits becoming unstable and popping when too big. 
 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Malikili
Edit

[(PSN)ApoX95]

i'm also a limbo main with around 16 % total usage (Prime/Non-Prime) and I don't think he struggles against eximus at all. he *does* deserve a buff though when looking at frames that literally have several abilities on one ability and he is a very 'technical focussed frame'. his ability to unrift all enemies on his first for example would work well as a secondary effect on his third as well. in general, the whole Rift deserves a lot more variety in terms of abilities then just

1. Rift a cone of enemies

2. freeze rifted enemies

3. spread rift as a sorta-aoe death buff

4. create a bubble of rift

 

limbo needs more secondary effects on his abilities. a complete rework though? not at all, he can pretty much trivialize all content if you know what you're doing.

[ShogunGunshow]

Two things stand out to me whenever I play Limbo

1) would like it if they reverted the rifted effect back to what it was before so it's easier to tell what enemy is bloody rifted and what's not

2) killing a Rift Surge'd enemy in the Rift should perform a radial Banish instead of just tagging one additional enemy. I think right now you have to Banish them out of the Rift to get the effect, which just feels clunky when combined with the previous point.

That would be two big QoL improvements for me.

[prodi1600]

I would like a rework for him.

[Mazifet]

Nah, just needs to have his kit explained better. Most misconceptions about Limbo like him being worse against eximus when compared to other frames just comes from a general lack of knowledge about the frame.

[Xzorn]

You could actually die in his Rift even before these questionable Eximus changes. It was a funny bug involving large weapons.

I had a video clip where I reported the issue 7 or so years ago. I have another where I just get one-shot but you can still see the issue.
The gun itself is inside Cata but not the unit and so it hits you. This is one reason I never really got into playing Limbo.

 

[chaotea]

Honestly, ive found him to be fine. Not really felt the impact of eximus any more than say nullifiers.

[Aruquae]

56 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

Nah, just needs to have his kit explained better. Most misconceptions about Limbo like him being worse against eximus when compared to other frames just comes from a general lack of knowledge about the frame.

You sure about lack of knowledge? The Eximus changes seemed to be made completely targeting Limbo, my belief is solicited with that infamous patch note change confirming it (in my mind). 
I guess I’m still sour about overguard neglecting his entire kit, but I feel he should have something the Eximus can’t take.

[Numerounius]

I think his interactions with eximus units are fine. The problem is that entering the rift equals untouchable isn't the ideal gameplay pattern.

Like you cannot interact with objectives at all, yet some objectives require you to do parkour to get them (mirror defense and Void Flood) therefore making it a grief/gimp just because you are taking Limbo because of the passive. Then there is the whole Mobile defense terminal thing and Limbo doing setup beforehand. Then you have the "damaging effects" that work through the Rift like Jackal laser walls. Then there is the edge of the rift and cannot damage enemies being right on that edge making the rift not an untouchable situation.

So yes a buff/changes regarding the rift would be the ideal solution since I don't think Limbo is needing a full-scale rework.

Another angle they can approach with him is to provide more augments, yes I know there are some people that are vehemently against the using augments does not buff a frame arguement. But not everyone would be wanting to disable Limbo's passive but it would be a great help towards helping others in the playstyle. For others, augments can help people play Limbo more beyond the I cast cataclysm then stasis then helminth and then wait until I need to recast them. As for the current die-hard Limbo fans you would still be able to play him as you always have since augments aren't a rework to the frame.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Numerounius

[Mazifet]

1 hour ago, Malikili said:

You sure about lack of knowledge? The Eximus changes seemed to be made completely targeting Limbo, my belief is solicited with that infamous patch note change confirming it (in my mind). 
I guess I’m still sour about overguard neglecting his entire kit, but I feel he should have something the Eximus can’t take.

Which patch note are you referring to? I don't believe the Eximus changes impacted Limbo more than any other CC frame. The solution to dealing with them is still the same as it always has been: kill them before they can even become a threat. Limbo has access to immense damage options via his 3rd ability augment, which allows for ridiculously high damage, even reaching damage cap.

[Aruquae]

9 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

Which patch note are you referring to? I don't believe the Eximus changes impacted Limbo more than any other CC frame. The solution to dealing with them is still the same as it always has been: kill them before they can even become a threat. Limbo has access to immense damage options via his 3rd ability augment, which allows for ridiculously high damage, even reaching damage cap.

Don’t know the exact wording, but the gist was “Fixed Arson Eximus blast not hitting Limbo while he’s in the rift”

And another “Fixed Narmer ball not affecting Linbo while he’s in the rift”

Hurts seeing them specifically target him man, hurts 

Yes, that’s the thing killing them before they kill you. Only problem is the blast radius of the Arson Eximus makes it so you have no clue an Eximus is even there, until you’re hit. (It can go through walls) Toxin Eximus are fine though, they run up to you, so you at least know they’re there. 

[Skoomaseller]

idk much about limbo but I think an area of improvement could be the interaction w/ nullifier auras

[Voltage]

17 minutes ago, Malikili said:

Don’t know the exact wording, but the gist was “Fixed Arson Eximus blast not hitting Limbo while he’s in the rift”

And another “Fixed Narmer ball not affecting Linbo while he’s in the rift”

Hurts seeing them specifically target him man, hurts 

Yes, that’s the thing killing them before they kill you. Only problem is the blast radius of the Arson Eximus makes it so you have no clue an Eximus is even there, until you’re hit. (It can go through walls) Toxin Eximus are fine though, they run up to you, so you at least know they’re there. 

The dilemma with the rift is that DE has to either let enemies fully bypass it, or the mechanic itself is broken. He's a tough Warframe to balance because the entire point of the rift is what makes it broken if it just shut off everything when you had it casted.

[Raarsi]

26 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

idk much about limbo but I think an area of improvement could be the interaction w/ nullifier auras

Wasn't that why another nickname for nullifiers was "top hat removers"?

I'm still in the mindset that Limbo's 1 just needs to be changed to a buff/debuff system and have his other abilities revolve around that.

[Aruquae]

24 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The dilemma with the rift is that DE has to either let enemies fully bypass it, or the mechanic itself is broken. He's a tough Warframe to balance because the entire point of the rift is what makes it broken if it just shut off everything when you had it casted.

Precisely, balancing the rift shouldn’t be too hard because it only comes from one frame

The rift is entirely created by Limbo, no other frame can interact with it without Limbo. If they can simply rework the rift and add clear mechanics that don’t automatically bypass any “rift logic” then it could work. 
Honestly would be fine if the rift had some restrictions, so long as it doesn’t have many “exceptions.” 

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

Limbo does need a couple changes indeed! Just, not really on his survivability.
I gave him a second chance after many, many years of leaving him on my arsenal and now that I understand how he works (finally), I really like him!

The "survivability" isn't that big of a problem as eximoose do telegraph their attacks fairly well and evading is easy, normally but, that's speaking from my pov, plus all their attacks come to a full-stop once you put them in the Rift with Stasis. And, with the helminth system this problem can be literally erased.
Banshee's Silence or Wisp's Breach Surge work wonders, as Breach Surge Blinds enemies even through Overguard, and Silence disables their abilities.

Instead, he needs to be more "accessible for allies".
What I mean is;

• Easier visualization of Rifted enemies for everyone, the Borderlands silhouette isn't bad but could be better. Game already has a vfx excess, some cleanup could be good.
• Allow him to Banish defence objectives*, as if you remove Cataclysm, you cannot protect them, also "indicating" where enemies are Banished for the team becomes difficult.
• Allow allies to harm enemies through the Rift plain. Now yes on paper this one is just too OP, so I'd say only those enemies that are also under the effect of Rift Surge.

And that's it. But, honestly I would like Limbo to have a bit... more without relying on the helminth system. Think about it, he has four passives;

1. The Rift.
2. Passive energy regeneration while in the Rift.
3. 10 energy per kill on the Rift.
4. The little plain shred on roll.

But only half of them our allies can make use of, not quite "benefit". And there's Banish Augment too which is hyper strong, but it cannot be used effectively because, well, you have to Banish an ally, and... that has its own issues. So, were Limbo to be more team-accesible, like I mentioned, and his passive(s?) applied to allies, he'd be picked more often, but I wouldn't touch his survivability much.

_{*I've tried it on consoles and such, it always tells me non-valid! Wiki says otherwise though.}

[Loza03]

Most CC frames in the game offer crowd control and something. Usually, if CC is their main draw, that 'something' is fairly minor or niche, or just silly and fun. Like, Vauban has CC and orbital space lasers, Gara has CC and a difficult-to-maintain damage option. Nidus offers Crowd Control and immortality (at the double cost of being a snowball frame that's exclusively stationary).

Limbo, ever since his first rework, established a niche as the CC frame. His defensive power was as close to absolute as possible - for a good chunk of the game, the only faction that could realistically touch him was the Corpus, and even then, being vigilant and building appropriately could easily allow you to overcome that floor. In exchange, 3/4ths of his kit were ways to enable the last quarter. Stasis.

The problem is that this all-or-nothing ran into problems with gameplay variety. DE still isn't good at this, but I'll gladly admit, being a Limbo main (which, for reference: I very much am) for Scarlet Spear was miserable. Your whole job was just to recast your 2 and your 4 over and over and over and over and that was it. That was the whole mission, because Limbo couldn't provide anything more. And even then, Nuke Warframes could do that job better, so you weren't even the MVP, you were just the backup for them - which is it's own kettle of problems but let's not talk about that right now. And of course, that isn't exactly fun for everyone else, or even really that fun for the Limbo.

Solution: Eximus units. I agree that their addition was healthy for the game, but now Limbo no longer fits, because he can't fit into his one (dubiously valuable) niche, and he doesn't have anything else to offer.

 

I've toyed with rework ideas for years, albeit never posting much, but I very much agree that Limbo needs a rework these days. Preferably to something that doesn't remove the unique rift mechanic, but perhaps leans into more of the idea of a clever tactician as is implied in his lore?

[PsiWarp]

Gain a small amount of Overguard (status immunity + guard gate) when dodging in/out of the Rift. Allies that use his portal also get this little benefit.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

56 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

idk much about limbo but I think an area of improvement could be the interaction w/ nullifier auras

This.

Also somehow (along with Volt and others) Limbo needs to be less intrusive with teammates and enemies affected by Banish should be much more pronounced. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I think at this point DE are regretting Limbo's creation. No matter how many times they've changed him, he's always required a far greater understanding of his mechanics and their drawbacks than any other frame. I like Limbo but i don't think DE can make him more effective without making fundamental changes to what is and isn't allowed in the rift.

I definitely don't see him getting changed again, especially with how unpopular he is compared to most other frames.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I'm on the rework train. 

But it's obvious the issue is the rift mechanic and I don't see how they can improve him without significantly reworking that. 

 

[Xzorn]

5 hours ago, Malikili said:

You sure about lack of knowledge? The Eximus changes seemed to be made completely targeting Limbo, my belief is solicited with that infamous patch note change confirming it (in my mind). 
I guess I’m still sour about overguard neglecting his entire kit, but I feel he should have something the Eximus can’t take.

 

It's not Limbo. DE has been on an anti-CC crusade for years. Ever since they saw players locking down old void missions.

They saw players locking down the void and instead of tapering enemy damage scaling so there was a soft cap for the game to grow into then toning down CC. They just stopped making reliable CC. Added counters like Nullifiers, Raid Drones. Hell, I bet to this day Ancient Disruptor auras stack additive making abilities 0 duration.

They did the same with stealth when Focus came out because players were able to cap their daily in one mission. Deception was removed specifically due to this and Sab missions stopped spawning non-altered enemies. Now it's an eHP/Immortal + DPS meta and frames like Ivara look like they were made for a different game.

I'm not even sure it's possible to run a mission stealthily without invis/operator anymore.
I really wish they'd gone a different direction 9 years ago.

[trst]

I think what he really needs is to be streamlined with having Rift Surge being merged into Banish or Stasis. Plus the whole no damage, aside from abilities, passing between the Rift probably needs a rework to being reduced damage just so the Limbo complaints stop. Basically giving him more of a Vauban type touchup.

As for the whole Overguard thing there isn't any issue with enemies being CC immune but if they're going to be Rift immune then they also need to ignore all Rift interactions.

[Hexerin]

Speaking as someone who doesn't play Limbo, aside from niche stuff like abusing him in Index. I don't really know what he "needs" to be viable in the modern game environment. However, I feel like at the very least, things immune to being rifted (like Eximus) should at least be hit with a forced slowing effect. From what I've heard mentioned on the forum before, Vauban's Bastille does this, so it wouldn't even be a new concept.