Forever stuck with Liches/Sisters

[Thrandoran]

I don't exactly know where to post this, but i have a specific issue with Liches and Sisters that i am pretty sure doesn't only affect me.

When buying a Sister or Lich, nothing warns you, that it is not possible to sell them again after completing the hunt. So i thought i was being smart and captured a sister with a horrible weapon, that has the cold element to make matters worse.

now i have a sister that i cannot sell again, and is literally impossible to get rid of while she is negatively impacting my gameplay. 
not only does she:
- decrease the chance of spawning my lich, that has a personality i like *and* a kuva nukor to prime enemys for me, but she also:
- is directly impacting my missions in a negative way, by spawning a snowglobe that blocks my projectiles.

and after reaching out to the support about my issue all they could tell me is, that they can't do anything to help me at all and if i want something done about it, i have to raise awareness in the forums. 

so please, i don't even want the weapon, sure, thats my fault, but please just give me an option to end my contract with her at ticker or any way to just get rid of her! cause i know it's not a huge issue in general, but a system that punishes you for one error (with nothing indicating that it will result in any issue mind you) by permanently and irreversably adding something to your account isn't a good system in my opinion.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Thrandoran

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I agree, there should be an option to Consign Converted Liches, I'm sure either Steel Meridian or Kahl would gladly find a place for them amongst their ranks. bonus points if when running a Kahl or Steel Meridian Syndicate mission they have a chance to pop up and say hi, or maybe show up in Iron Wake.

[Voltage]

I really don't understand why we can't just delete Converted nemeses from the codex/inventory. I will happily sell mine for 5,000 Credits each if it means they go away.

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

It's understandable why certain things can't be deleted, like Umbra, his sword, the Grimore, or other similar things.  Those are story related things.  But converted liches and sisters?  They're a dime a dozen.  They absolutely should be deletable somehow.  Fine that they can't be traded repeatedly if DE wants to keep the "limited" nature of their ephemera, but we should be able to delete them.

[Skoomaseller]

agreed. hopefully DE spends some time in 2024 polishing the nemesis system further.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Hexerin]

There's absolutely no excuse for the lack of a "forfeit lich" button on active liches.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

There's absolutely no excuse for the lack of a "forfeit lich" button on active liches.

I'm still annoyed we don't even have basic things with Liches like this. We don't have;

- Forfeiting a Lich

- Customizing a Lich (cosmetics, colors, alternate weapons)

- Upgrading a Converted Lich (levels and weapon percentages)

- Getting rid of a Converted Lich

- No Railjack Liches

- No way to turn off Converted Liches showing up on death

- No point in using them over Expert Crew from Ticker

I just really feel like the Converted Lich system as a whole is completely half-baked and in desperate need of some QoL fixes at the very least.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

14 hours ago, Thrandoran said:

I don't exactly know where to post this, but i have a specific issue with Liches and Sisters that i am pretty sure doesn't only affect me.

When buying a Sister or Lich, nothing warns you, that it is not possible to sell them again after completing the hunt. So i thought i was being smart and captured a sister with a horrible weapon, that has the cold element to make matters worse.

now i have a sister that i cannot sell again, and is literally impossible to get rid of while she is negatively impacting my gameplay. 
not only does she:
- decrease the chance of spawning my lich, that has a personality i like *and* a kuva nukor to prime enemys for me, but she also:
- is directly impacting my missions in a negative way, by spawning a snowglobe that blocks my projectiles.

and after reaching out to the support about my issue all they could tell me is, that they can't do anything to help me at all and if i want something done about it, i have to raise awareness in the forums. 

so please, i don't even want the weapon, sure, thats my fault, but please just give me an option to end my contract with her at ticker or any way to just get rid of her! cause i know it's not a huge issue in general, but a system that punishes you for one error (with nothing indicating that it will result in any issue mind you) by permanently and irreversably adding something to your account isn't a good system in my opinion.

I clicked this thread expecting it to be another "i cant skip my lich reee" thread.

 

I was wrong, and thats a good point.

[trst]

If it's a converted sister then it sounds like the bigger issue is you're trying to spawn them by dying. Just stop dying and assign the Lich you want to your Railjack crew as your on call then summon them whenever you want. 

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

Other than to sell/trade there's pretty much 0 reason to convert them.

I've got about 10 converted but they don't do anything there's 0 interaction

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

Customizing a Lich (cosmetics, colors, alternate weapons)

It'd be good if converting unlocked pieces for you to change. If you had everything unlocked from the get go there'd be nothing to farm

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

Other than to sell/trade there's pretty much 0 reason to convert them.

I've got about 10 converted but they don't do anything there's 0 interaction

It'd be good if converting unlocked pieces for you to change. If you had everything unlocked from the get go there'd be nothing to farm

I'm not exactly against that suggestion, but for me, I think you can just keep it to the Valence system for why you're farming them. Kill the Lich to buff your personal weapons, those same weapons now can be used by your Converted Lich. Feed your Lich Kuva or Specter Particles to buff up their level to max, stuff like that.

Since there's no actual way to get a specific look for a Lich, you'd be spinning your wheels with Liches over and over again just to unlock armor you actually want. It would have to be a sort of "each Lich unlocks a new piece or two" and then I'm sure it'd be fine. I don't think you should want to collect as many Liches as possible like it's Pokemon when you should just be converting a handful or less and upgrading them similar to Elite Crew for RJ.

Edited December 24, 2023 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[TARINunit9]

12 hours ago, Hexerin said:

There's absolutely no excuse for the lack of a "forfeit lich" button on active liches.

The duality of man: "Everyone in the universe should stab their liches immediately no matter what they want so I can kill my Lich in 98 minutes instead of 99. But that's still hours too long and I want a Forfeit Lich option"

11 hours ago, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

- Customizing a Lich (cosmetics, colors, alternate weapons)

This would probably aggravate the designers because the entire point of having randomized cosmetics in the first place is to PREVENT you from customizing them. This was an active decision on DE's part. You argue that's a bad point, and I'm not going to say that's wrong, just saying good luck convincing DE

[Hexerin]

6 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The duality of man: "Everyone in the universe should stab their liches immediately no matter what they want so I can kill my Lich in 98 minutes instead of 99. But that's still hours too long and I want a Forfeit Lich option"

[TARINunit9]

27 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

OK you've probably seen these kind of threads? That attitude that demands "everyone must play the game my way and that means always stab your lich every time no matter what because I said so"

It got really nasty right around the time DE scrapped the "forfeit Lich" idea they teased exactly once. So clearly there's a "duality of man" moment in there somewhere

[Hexerin]

15 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

OK you've probably seen these kind of threads? That attitude that demands "everyone must play the game my way and that means always stab your lich every time no matter what because I said so"

It got really nasty right around the time DE scrapped the "forfeit Lich" idea they teased exactly once. So clearly there's a "duality of man" moment in there somewhere

That linked thread has literally nothing to do with having a forfeit lich option. You're making no sense, my guy.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

That linked thread has literally nothing to do with having a forfeit lich option.

Not in and of itself, which is why I will now apologize for being so esoteric

Basically I'm drawing a theory. Theorizing that "everyone needs to stab their liches because I said so" (which is now an automatic ban from the forum mods) and "DE needs to make a forfeit Lich option" are coming from the same set of frustrations. That's why I brought it up

[Hexerin]

9 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Not in and of itself, which is why I will now apologize for being so esoteric

Basically I'm drawing a theory. Theorizing that "everyone needs to stab their liches because I said so" (which is now an automatic ban from the forum mods) and "DE needs to make a forfeit Lich option" are coming from the same set of frustrations. That's why I brought it up

They're not remotely related.

This concept you have that there's a group of people that believe "all other players need to Mercy their liches on every spawn" or whatever is one player attempting to enforce their playstyle on others. That is toxic as hell, for extremely obvious reasons.

The implementation of a feature that adds a simple button to the lich overview screen, that upon pressing allows the player to forfeit their lich, is just adding an option for an individual player to get rid of an unwanted gameplay disruption. It affects nobody but that specific player and their own lich.

These two things are not comparable, on any level.

[TARINunit9]

7 hours ago, Hexerin said:

This concept you have that there's a group of people that believe "all other players need to Mercy their liches on every spawn" or whatever is one player attempting to enforce their playstyle on others. That is toxic as hell, for extremely obvious reasons.

The implementation of a feature that adds a simple button to the lich overview screen, that upon pressing allows the player to forfeit their lich, is just adding an option for an individual player to get rid of an unwanted gameplay disruption. It affects nobody but that specific player and their own lich.

My theory looks at the why

Why does the toxic group get toxic about Liches? Sidestepping the parts about human attitude, they want the Lich farmed faster.

Why do you want to forfeit a Lich? I theorize: you want it gone faster. Not just gone in general, gone faster than it would take to kill it manually

My theory goes, the real goal is to dip into the loot tables more often. A forfeit option would skip an undesired drop in order to get straight back to the next RNG check. Without such an option, the only way forward is to get as many stabs in as quickly as possible, whereupon the toxic players would toxically complain about people not stabbing fast enough

Do you propose that's a false equivalency? There are certainly alternative motives to a lich forfeiture 

[PollexMessier]

I feel this one. I had a converted Cold sister and it was the most obnoxious thing. Thankfully the reason I converted it was specifically to trade, because it had an ephemera.

I did explicitly warn the person I ended up trading them with to under no circumstances convert them. They're a disaster.

[Hexerin]

32 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

My theory looks at the why

Why does the toxic group get toxic about Liches? Sidestepping the parts about human attitude, they want the Lich farmed faster.

Why do you want to forfeit a Lich? I theorize: you want it gone faster. Not just gone in general, gone faster than it would take to kill it manually

My theory goes, the real goal is to dip into the loot tables more often. A forfeit option would skip an undesired drop in order to get straight back to the next RNG check. Without such an option, the only way forward is to get as many stabs in as quickly as possible, whereupon the toxic players would toxically complain about people not stabbing fast enough

Do you propose that's a false equivalency? There are certainly alternative motives to a lich forfeiture 

Okay, so you clearly don't even know how the lich system works. I'm no longer going to respond to you on this topic.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Hexerin

[NecroPed]

I wish you could just choose which liches/sisters to put into your spawning pool. I have a lot that I like, and some I don't like. I'm not fond of permanently removing it from my account though because I like the collection, but I understand the frustration and while would be fine if that was the only way to handle them, I think it would be better if every nemesis you capture just has a toggle for being added to the spawning pool. 

23 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

My theory looks at the why

Why does the toxic group get toxic about Liches? Sidestepping the parts about human attitude, they want the Lich farmed faster.

Why do you want to forfeit a Lich? I theorize: you want it gone faster. Not just gone in general, gone faster than it would take to kill it manually

My theory goes, the real goal is to dip into the loot tables more often. A forfeit option would skip an undesired drop in order to get straight back to the next RNG check. Without such an option, the only way forward is to get as many stabs in as quickly as possible, whereupon the toxic players would toxically complain about people not stabbing fast enough

Do you propose that's a false equivalency? There are certainly alternative motives to a lich forfeiture 

Some get toxic because their gameplay is directly impacted by others. You cannot do your lich while another is there, it's not just about faster, but losing control and having to just wait until someone else decides you're able to have a chance at your goal that you came in wanting to do. The biggest problem there in my opinion is that your ability to play the game and achieve your goal is directly dictated by whoever's lich is already there, and if they're not actually helping to achieve the goal, whether it be by stabbing their lich or farming murmurs or whatever, they are potentially an active detriment to others and I honestly think frustration at that point is entirely justified. (Though I wont justify being toxic to people because of it, I just wholeheartedly think there is a big flaw there that does warrant frustration. One side says it's toxic to be angry, but the other side might think it's toxic to be restricting their gameplay)

But this isn't about farming them is it, it's about removing already farmed liches, right?

Because you have literally no choice over whether it spawns or not. And, if it's only for converted liches, there's no faster, because there's no gone at all. 

But a converted lich isn't going to provide another reward, you're already able to get another lich, you've already finished your last one, you just don't want it anymore. You don't gain anything, at all, by deleting a converted lich. 

[TARINunit9]

6 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Okay, so you clearly don't even know how the lich system works. I'm no longer going to respond to you on this topic.

Yeah clearly when we were using the word "forfeiture" you and I were talking about completely different parts of the Lich system. On that note:

6 hours ago, NecroPed said:

But this isn't about farming them is it, it's about removing already farmed liches, right?

 I think this is where I tripped up. But now that we are in the same page:

6 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I wish you could just choose which liches/sisters to put into your spawning pool. I have a lot that I like, and some I don't like. I'm not fond of permanently removing it from my account though because I like the collection, but I understand the frustration and while would be fine if that was the only way to handle them, I think it would be better if every nemesis you capture just has a toggle for being added to the spawning pool. 

The whole Lich system is based on Shadow of Mordor, DE even admitted it. So I wish they had ripped it off properly, I am like 99% sure you have actual control over your captured orcs and can set and equip and level them up, instead of just this nebulous blob of "captured orcs, and once you have decided they exist you have no further control whatsoever." It just contributes to complaints that it's another half-baked mechanic

[TioMegaManX]

On 2023-12-24 at 12:15 AM, (XBOX)Graysmog said:

- No point in using them over Expert Crew from Ticker

Next update: DE nerfs crewmates to force players into using their liches/sisters.