Do you find it normal that it takes an hour to get a specific Kuva weapon?

[-Krism-]

Do you think the way we acquire them should be changed, or is it good as it is?

 

I was looking for the Hind, & it took me about 70min to finally get it

Spoiler

[Absolute_Kriatura]

Before its was a total nightmare, totally dependant in RNG. Now it's possible to manage which weapon you want, completing the mission to disregard the weapon you are not interested in favor of higher chances of the one you're looking for to appear on the next run.

1h might be bad but before it could took days with bad RNG. I do not think the system can be improved anymore.

[(XBOX)Varzin]

It used to be totally random which weapon was selected every time. Now there is a safety net in place, every time you spawn a kuva larvaling, if you complete the mission without stabbing the larvaling then the weapon generated that time is removed from the pool. This allows player to whittle the pool down to the weapon they want, assuming they don't get lucky early on. If you go through the entire pool it resets.

If it took you an hour this time then that's just bad luck, not a fault of the system.

I'm assuming you're running Adaro (Sedna Exterminate)? That's the popular mission to run for generating kuva liches. Maybe try finding a way to speed up your completion of the mission if the potential time sink bothers you.

[-Krism-]

1 minute ago, Somnium_Bellator said:

Before its was a total nightmare, totally dependant in RNG. Now it's possible to manage which weapon you want, completing the mission to disregard the weapon you are not interested in favor of higher chances of the one you're looking for to appear on the next run.

1h might be bad but before it could took days with bad RNG. I do not think the system can be improved anymore.

Yeah, I was there

At least with relics, even if it takes me an hour to get the item I want, I get other stuff that I can sell for plats, ducats, or other parts that I could need, but here, I get nothing apart from regular mission resources

[Aruquae]

2 minutes ago, Somnium_Bellator said:

1h might be bad but before it could took days with bad RNG. I do not think the system can be improved anymore.

Hear me out… knocking the lice with a specific weapon type gives you one of said type.

For example, kill larvling with secondar= Kuva secondary

Kill Kuva larvling with sniper: Kuva sniper 

I can already see the problems with this idea…

[-Krism-]

Just now, (XBOX)Varzin said:

If it took you an hour this time then that's just bad luck, not a fault of the system.

Where did I say it was the fault of the game? I simply asked if you wanted it improved more or not

1 minute ago, (XBOX)Varzin said:

I'm assuming you're running Adaro (Sedna Exterminate)?

If you looked at the picture you would see I'm in the Fortress

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

It's a difficult matter to decide how should Kuva & Tenet weapon be obtained.
On one hand unlike more conventional weapons they have no resource or time cost to build, while on the other they are tied to a RNG system which can take its own time too. First find weapon you want while also using the frame you want the element for it to be, then go smack your "personal nemesis" at random until you get to kill them.

Personally do not like the dynamic. Nor the liches have ever felt like a personal nemesis, just a bunch of chatty leeches, nor is the process to get the weapons enjoyable, even if much faster than getting a prime or some of the newest weapons that come in parts for no particular reason.

Would I like the whole system to change? Yes.
Do I know how would I like it? Yes.

As simple as Ergo Glast offering Tenet weapons on rotation with random bonuses, just add someone (Clem) to do the same for the Steel Meridian and we're golden.
Now yes this would mean no more liches and also no chance to get the weapon you want by trying again and again but instead being time-gated, so could be added as an alternative rather than substitute, while also having the option to reinforce or change the element of your Lich weapon by paying some of the currency instead of having to farm another one.
I don't like Liches but I like Railjack so at least for me it'd work, moreover if said currency could be tradeable.

This should be a balanced approach as it'd make it so the player can save up money to buy a weapon they'd like whenever it's available instead of doing the mind numbing task of doing this again and again until you get what you want. Current system might not be as bad as it used to be, but having more options should harm no one.
Also could add some new Kuva weapons, been waiting for a handful of forgotten Grineer melees to get a redemption arc instead of more broken incarnon ones.

Edited January 26 by (PSN)Pablogamer585
oops, shoulded a bit more than I should

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb -Krism-:

Yeah, I was there

At least with relics, even if it takes me an hour to get the item I want, I get other stuff that I can sell for plats, ducats, or other parts that I could need, but here, I get nothing apart from regular mission resources

But you get kuva 

[SneakyErvin]

Not normal, you had bad luck very likely.

Seems like you started the grind with Hind as the previous last Kuva weapon rolled on a potential accidental Larva kill, hence why you didnt get it until the 19th run. Since the system only resets when you accept a weapon/kill the lich or when it has had the whole list of weapons ignored. Accepting the weapon/killing the lich resets the RNG, ignoring the list just makes the list repeat in the same order.

Edited January 26 by SneakyErvin

[Numerounius]

You are doing exterminate that takes over 2 minutes a run which is far from optimal. Doing an alternative faster mission type or an exterminate mission not on Kuva fortress of all tilesets to use would make it go by faster. It looks like you just had bad luck there with having a full pool to begin with and targeting one weapon.

Although I'd say this problem could be worse with Tenet weapons since it isn't consistent to getting the spawn condition of the correct tile for the void and then wait for the treasurer to spawn.

[-Krism-]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Personally do not like the dynamic. Nor the liches have ever felt like a personal nemesis, just a bunch of chatty leeches, nor is the process to get the weapons enjoyable, even if much faster than getting a prime or some of the newest weapons that come in parts for no particular reason.

Yeah, they were supposed to be long term Nemesis which could take months to take down, now they take maybe ~20min

But that's what happened to all of Steve's ideas, cool on paper, but they just didn't fit Warframe's style

 

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

But you get kuva 

Which I don't need because I #*!%ing hate Rivens

 

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not normal, you had bad luck very likely.

Seems like you started the grind with Hind as the previous last Kuva weapon rolled on a potential accidental Larva kill, hence why you didnt get it until the 19th run. Since the system only resets when you accept a weapon/kill the lich or when it has had the whole list of weapons ignored. Accepting the weapon/killing the lich resets the RNG, ignoring the list just makes the list repeat in the same order.

I had killed another Lich with a Seer this morning, this was a completely new pool

Wanna know something funny tho? The same #*!%ing thing happened with that Lich too, it took me an hour to get the Seer to spawn, which is why I'm asking this

It may just be two bad luck streaks in a row, but it can happened, & that is the problem

[-Krism-]

 

7 minutes ago, Numerounius said:

You are doing exterminate that takes over 2 minutes a run which is far from optimal.

1:40 - 2 minutes generally, my PC is just trash & loading screens can take time

I also took some time between missions to change weapons so I wouldn't go insane repeating the same mission for an hour+ straight

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, -Krism- said:

I had killed another Lich with a Seer this morning, this was a completely new pool

Wanna know something funny tho? The same #*!%ing thing happened with that Lich too, it took me an hour to get the Seer to spawn, which is why I'm asking this

It may just be two bad luck streaks in a row, but it can happened, & that is the problem

Whatever you decide to do for the rest of the day I have one advice for you. Do not go out and buy a lottery ticket! 

And looking at the list you provided, it doesnt seem to be a bug either with a list refresh upon lich kill since the Seer is weapon 7/19 there. If it pulled the old list from where you stopped the seer wouldnt have been on the new list.

Maybe uhm... give it a try again for uhm science!? 👀

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I mean, I am not opposed to improvements, but I think its fine currently too. As in I would be fine if this is all we got. 

Before it could take over 3 hours to get the weapon you wanted. As many of us, including OP knows, I still remember my longest 3 hour session from before the pity system/exclusion method was implemented. I listened to a podcast. At least now, you know you are making progress towards the weapon you want.  Also helps to have numerous goals, since usually, people aren't just after a single Kuva weapon. Usually. Like there will be a few instances where a person, literally only wants just one Kuva weapon, specifically, and finally... but then in that instance, such a situation should only happen once. For example, if OP wanted a Seer or Kind, then this last run would have only had to go to 7th attempt. (Or for example in the run where you did get the Seer, presumably the Hind showed up before as well). 

Again though I am not against improvements or changes either. I mostly just do Liches for fun, and increasing the percentages of weapons I rarely use anyway, for completionist type reasons. There are some weapons I prioritise a bit over others, back when I was going for my favourites, and I think my last long run was trying to get the Kraken to 60%. So such results should be a bit abnormal, unless for whatever reason, you really specifically want a very specific weapon and nothing else. Which fair enough. Even then you will also be a bit of an outlier, as in bad luck if its literally the last choice. 

To put it another way, I wish they did something about Ephemera chances/drops. I view that as more of a source of frustration. A pity system there would be great (like accumulating odds or something). 

[-Krism-]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Whatever you decide to do for the rest of the day I have one advice for you. Do not go out and buy a lottery ticket! 

And looking at the list you provided, it doesnt seem to be a bug either with a list refresh upon lich kill since the Seer is weapon 7/19 there. If it pulled the old list from where you stopped the seer wouldnt have been on the new list.

I'm not superstitious, but I've always had a kind of weird luck my whole life

The Seer one was a partial pool when I begun, so I had to reset it by ignoring the other weapons, it still took me more than an hour tho

16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe uhm... give it a try again for uhm science!? 👀

Yeah, the whole reason I'm doing this is to actually farm for the Ephemeras, but I figured I might as well farm up some of the Kuva weapons I never got while at it

So I'll have to do it again anyway, multiple times, I'll keep you informed when I do, most likely after the Devstream once I kill my current Lich

 

17 minutes ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Or for example in the run where you did get the Seer, presumably the Hind showed up before as well

That's the thing, I was going for the Hind at first, & did the same thing, keeping track of them in the chat, & after an hour+ of nothing, I settled on the Seer as I was extremely tired of running the same mission without finding it

But there's always the possibility of it being bugged that time, as I distinctly remember not seeing/listing it, & taking the Seer maybe un-bugged it?

[UnstarPrime]

1 hour ago, -Krism- said:

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Varzin said:

If it took you an hour this time then that's just bad luck, not a fault of the system.

Where did I say it was the fault of the game? I simply asked if you wanted it improved more or not

Semantics aside, it is the fault of the system.  It's a game and the devs determine what is and isn't possible.  If "bad luck" is possible within the system, that is 100% the fault of the system.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, -Krism- said:

Do you think the way we acquire them should be changed, or is it good as it is?

Let me answer that question with another question: do you think we should be able to get every Kuva weapon in two days? Or is it acceptable to tell players "slow down, you'll have every weapon in about three or four weeks?" Because that's how I played it

[(PSN)Sentiel]

2 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Do you think the way we acquire them should be changed, or is it good as it is?

 

I was looking for the Hind, & it took me about 70min to finally get it

  Hide contents

And DE dares to ask in the survey if we feel our time is being valued lol

[-Krism-]

12 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Let me answer that question with another question: do you think we should be able to get every Kuva weapon in two days? Or is it acceptable to tell players "slow down, you'll have every weapon in about three or four weeks?" Because that's how I played it

& what makes you think I didn't? Why do you think I've never bothered farming them before?

 

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

And DE dares to ask in the survey if we feel our time is being valued lol

This has been popping in my head while I was farming, that's just for one weapon, there are 19 Kuva + 14 Tenet, & you need multiple of them to max out one weapon

If I have to go through 1 hour for every weapon & multiple times for only one, no, the game doesn't

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Do you think the way we acquire them should be changed, or is it good as it is?

Nemesis xx Armament Descryor:  One for every Nemesis weapon, purchased at Cephalon Simaris or for platinum, tradable.  When equipped in the gear wheel it forces selection of that weapon on the next Larvling or Candidate encountered, and is consumed as soon as the unit is downed.  (Or it could skip the Larvling/Candidate step entirely, but that might be more problematic.)

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Yea....they're some of the best weapons in game and changes were already made to make it easier for you.

[Xzorn]

I find it tedious.

The Kuva Lich annoying me was actually the straw the broke my back and quit because you could accidentally kill the enemy to start it.
They fixed that but the damage was done. They fix and changed a lot of things and it still isn't very good. Esp having to get mods again.

I refuse to do Kuva Siphons so I just buy them.
They also aren't dangerous at all. Just don't let them body slam you. It's the only thing that even moves my HP.

 

18 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Yea....they're some of the best weapons in game and changes were already made to make it easier for you.

 

How did you come to that conclusion? Normal Zarr still scales better than Kuva Zarr. Grattler was ruined. Kohm is good but it's an ammo hog that not even Mutation can keep up. The others are upgrades to DOA weapons like Stubba and Quartak. Like what do you use to parse a "good" weapon?

I generally gravitate to trash sweeper or scalability and none of them are best at either.
Incarnon Lex is my new fav pistol and I freaking hated Lex since it came out. Marelok was always better, still decent.

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Do you think the way we acquire them should be changed, or is it good as it is?

Should absolutely be changed.

The whole thing would be better with a light mechanics overhaul:

1. Replace the per-weapon elemental damage bonuses with Kuva/Tenet-only Arcanes that fit in a dedicated second Arcane slot (similar to Zaws)
2. Have higher level Liches/Sisters drop more Arcanes when killed (1/1/2/2/3)
3. Replace the Foundry-claim item rewards with simple named tokens you can redeem at a vendor (similar to Glast's offerings)

Say you spawn a Heat Lich named Biff Boff who spawns with a Kuva Grattler. You fight Biff Boff up to level 5 before killing them. As a reward you get 1x [Biff Boff Kuva Lich Helmet] and 3x [Kuva Flame] Arcanes. You can then visit Cressa Tal in Iron Wake and redeem your [Biff Boff Kuva Lich Helmet] for any Biff Boff Kuva weapon. If you've got all the weapons and are still missing an Ephemera, you could save up and just buy the one you're missing. And if you've got all of those, too, then there could be evergreens to buy like extra Arcanes, Forma, potatoes, etc. DE could even add new rewards like Captura scenes or cosmetics. Want to wear a Lich's helmet on your shoulder the way they wear ours? I sure do!

Now there's no grinding Larvlings for the "right" spawn because they're all equally "right". It no longer takes an hour to get started, it takes 2 minutes. There's no need for the duplicate weapon roll protection mechanic, and really there wouldn't even be a need for the weapon preview to begin with. There are fewer reasons to not stab, and more reasons to try fighting higher level Liches/Sisters. Changing your weapon's elemental bonus would take seconds could even be different between configs. There'd be no need for the bandaid Foundry reward claiming system and the clutter that comes with it. It'd even be a little bit more performant, since DE wouldn't have to track player duplicate rolls nor individual Kuva/Tenet weapon stats/elemental type bonuses on their servers anymore. Wins for everyone.

Edit: And for the typical "you just want everything right away"-ing that gets thrown around every time someone suggests improving anything at all, it would even be about the same overall grind we have now.

Edited January 26 by PublikDomain

[quxier]

 

2 hours ago, -Krism- said:

 

At least with relics, even if it takes me an hour to get the item I want, I get other stuff that I can sell for plats, ducats, or other parts that I could need, but here, I get nothing apart from regular mission resources

Yeah, normal mission to spawn Kuva lich is just... weird. I've came back from a break and I've started some Grineer mission. I've spawned larving. However that got me thinking... it's just very random, almost miracle to get. Like... you are doing solo, leveling weapon or something (so no enough kills). There is no way to know that there will be Kuva Leech there.

Aside this, we got what we got. Could be better but doing simple capture is good enough.

2 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Do you think the way we acquire them should be changed, or is it good as it is?

 

I was looking for the Hind, & it took me about 70min to finally get it

1 hour ago, -Krism- said:

2 hours ago, Numerounius said:

You are doing exterminate that takes over 2 minutes a run which is far from optimal.

1:40 - 2 minutes generally, my PC is just trash & loading screens can take time

I also took some time between missions to change weapons so I wouldn't go insane repeating the same mission for an hour+ straight

Ok, so 19 missions times 1:40 - 2 minutes is 31 minutes 40 second - 38 minutes. So that's your REAL time. I could say it takes me 10 days to level up frame because I do simple stuff.

 

OH, btw. ~1 hours is not too big. Look at Duviri/Circuit SP. It takes 34 rounds to get to rank 10 (2nd incarnon or stuff). Let's say 1 round takes ~5 minutes on average. That's 2 hours and 40 minutes. Sure, you may get:

- few arcanes - some useless some better

- some random resources that is not very useful

That's not the worst part. You start at Sunday? Guess what? You HAVE TO finish it on Sunday* or your progress to incarnon (5 or 10 rank) will be lost. Kuva liches? Take months if you want.

* except some time differences & such

[-Krism-]

12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Should absolutely be changed.

The whole thing would be better with a light mechanics overhaul:

1. Replace the per-weapon elemental damage bonuses with Kuva/Tenet-only Arcanes that fit in a dedicated second Arcane slot (similar to Zaws)
2. Have higher level Liches/Sisters drop more Arcanes when killed (1/1/2/2/3)
3. Replace the Foundry-claim item rewards with simple named tokens you can redeem at a vendor (similar to Glast's offerings)

Say you spawn a Heat Lich named Biff Boff who spawns with a Kuva Grattler. You fight Biff Boff up to level 5 before killing them. As a reward you get 1x [Biff Boff Kuva Lich Helmet] and 3x [Kuva Flame] Arcanes. You can then visit Cressa Tal in Iron Wake and redeem your [Biff Boff Kuva Lich Helmet] for any Biff Boff Kuva weapon. If you've got all the weapons and are still missing an Ephemera, you could save up and just buy the one you're missing. And if you've got all of those, too, then there could be evergreens to buy like extra Arcanes, Forma, potatoes, etc. DE could even add new rewards like Captura scenes or cosmetics. Want to wear a Lich's helmet on your shoulder the way they wear ours? I sure do!

Now there's no grinding Larvlings for the "right" spawn because they're all equally "right". It no longer takes an hour to get started, it takes 2 minutes. There's no need for the duplicate weapon roll protection mechanic, and really there wouldn't even be a need for the weapon preview to begin with. There are fewer reasons to not stab, and more reasons to try fighting higher level Liches/Sisters. Changing your weapon's elemental bonus would take seconds could even be different between configs. There'd be no need for the bandaid Foundry reward claiming system and the clutter that comes with it. It'd even be a little bit more performant, since DE wouldn't have to track player duplicate rolls nor individual Kuva/Tenet weapon stats/elemental type bonuses on their servers anymore. Wins for everyone.

Edit: And for the typical "you just want everything right away"-ing that gets thrown around every time someone suggests improving anything at all, it would even be about the same overall grind we have now.

I actually like that one a lot; removes RNG & guarantees whatever you want, when you want, after the fight

It also encourages you to go for higher level Nemesis as they give you more stuff, it is indeed a pretty "win-win" solution