Hexerin Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 The boss of Whispers in the Walls is a disappointment. After the glory that is the Void Angel of Zariman (along with the personal nostalgia it instills in me), followed by the sheer epic of the Orowyrm of Duviri... The Fragmented are just massively disappointing in every way. The three base forms are just normal star chart fodder with no buildup nor payoff. Might as well just be generic fodder we kill in the thousands every mission. The "secret" version of them is just an unmitigated lesson in poor design decisions, full of instant kills and completely unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing. Really just sucks, cause the actual story of Whispers in the Walls was great. But for it to culminate in such a dull boss design... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Bounty-Hunter Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 minutes ago, Hexerin said: The "secret" version of them is just an unmitigated lesson in poor design decisions, full of instant kills and completely unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumtulpe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Hexerin said: The "secret" version of them is just an unmitigated lesson in poor design decisions, full of instant kills and completely unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing. Are you sure about that? I seem to be dodging them just fine: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Hexerin said: The "secret" version of them is just an unmitigated lesson in poor design decisions, full of instant kills and completely unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing. Oh Big Boy has bad design, but none of what you claim he has If anything, the attacks are OVERLY telegraphed, giving you far too MUCH time to dodge. I even thought the fight felt easy on my first run 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoomaseller Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 man damage attenuation aside I thought it was a great fight 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrivaMain Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Hexerin said: The "secret" version of them is just an unmitigated lesson in poor design decisions, full of instant kills and completely unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing. There's always the "cheese" method if you really think it's bad design and just want to get it over with so you don't have to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReddyDisco Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I liked the 60 eyes fight, only annoying part is collecting the 60 eyes, takes a while. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDGDen Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 hours ago, Skoomaseller said: man damage attenuation aside I thought it was a great fight i never thought the day would come that i'd agree with a yareli main. but by the void, i agree. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoomaseller Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 52 minutes ago, SDGDen said: i never thought the day would come that i'd agree with a yareli main. but by the void, i agree. UwU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_of_Psi Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Krism- Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 hours ago, Hexerin said: unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 hours ago, Hexerin said: The boss of Whispers in the Walls is a disappointment. I disagree. from an artistic point I think they look pretty amazing, I wanted Wally's personal army to be just as unfathomable as he is, and the whole disembodied theme is pretty great IMO. there's clearly some amoutn of inspiration from Hindu Mythology and Biblically Accurate angels, both of which are awesome in how straight up crazy weird they are!. 8 hours ago, Hexerin said: The three base forms are just normal star chart fodder with no buildup nor payoff. obviously the bosses that everyone, including new players, have to go up against won't be anything special, the game isn't just balanced around players with all the gear and power at hand. some allowances have to be made. not sure what you mean by build-up, since you have to basically run a whole mission just to fight them, what more build up do you want lol? 8 hours ago, Hexerin said: The "secret" version of them is just an unmitigated lesson in poor design decisions, full of instant kills and completely unavoidable attacks with zero telegraphing. tell me you got folded by 60 eyes without telling me you got folded by 60 eyes. shield gating means instant kills are a thing of the past unless you are running a frame with no shields (which wouldn't be the best pick for a fight like this anyway), so that's false. the attacks are also pretty avoidable, especially the beams, which take like 5 seconds before they fire and stop tracking you just before they fire; if you use parkour like you should be doing during the fight the beams miss by a country mile. the other attacks also miss most of the time if you remain airborne as much as possible. I cannot stress this enough, mobility is the key to staying alive, even if you're running Hildryn or any other tank frame. I'm curious what kind of boss you would like to fight that isn't "dull"? can you give an example of a better design? doesn't have to be in warframe, feel free to draw inspiration from anywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CephalonCarnage Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said: I'm curious what kind of boss you would like to fight that isn't "dull"? Exploiter. But she avoids the warframe problems by requiring you to use other features to get her. And a lot of warframe pewpew as well. that means you don't feel like you're in a puzzle simulator or fighting an invulnerable boss. (both of which are kinda true), so said boss is pretty much the pinacle of warframe boss fights. Lots of exposition and voice acting as well, and a 2 stage fight that makes it more interesting. Though I don't mind the fragmented one and think its a pretty easy boss TBH, I think the 2 biggest problems with the 60 eyes one is partl'y that, besides the annoying nullifier, its got such damaging attacks, I was one-shot in a middle of particle effects. Someone revived me, I got up and was insta-killed immediately by it again! Its a bad attack thing, and saying "parkour around it" isn't quite as simple as suggested especially when your squad has brought every AoE explosion of particles there is in the game. I would rather have more attacks that dealt 50% damage than 1 attack that does 100%, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) While I do find the attacks decently telegraphed they fall to the same issue as the rest of the big bosses in the game, the WF camera and the overload of effects. I went from trying it with melee on a tanky frame. It simply didnt work. There was no way to see the graphs in the spam of effects, and there is no way to build a natural tank for the fight. It's shield gate or go home more or less. With ranged the graphs were OK, but the rest of the poor design in the fight are still there. As in not being able to rely on defensive options that require hits to land, so no tanking option at all for Kullervo. Natural tanking through high eHP doesnt work. So we have to rely on shield gate. Which also excludes Lavos, Inaros and Nidus, since they either cant rebuild shields on demand, or have no shields to begin with. These are massively poor design choices in the fight. edit: Oh and it probably also stops Hildryn from being useful. Then we come to the part with shield gating, which becomes practically the only reason to use skills in the fight aside from a few buffs. So we are back to Eidolons more or less, where only buff frames have a meaning, preferably a buff frame with 1 spammable ability that requires no target to cast, all in order to retrigger SG as needed. Also massively poor design. So DE has kinda repeated a few parts of what makes Eidolons such S#&$e while also adding more to the pile. Which is quite shocking when we've had wonderful bosses released like Profit-Taker, a boss that actually has a well thought out system that limits damage, promotes a diverse build and also incorporates several parts of our amassed progress. It's also fairly light on the visual clutter overload. The only real downside is you cant really make use of regular melee on it. We also have the wonderful murdering of angels, well designed fights overall, mini-bosses at that which outshine most real bosses of the game, and far surpasses the Fragmented One in particular. More angel-ish and more Profit-Taker-ish fights is what we need for bosses. Less rave parties on legs like Eidolons and Frags, and preferably never any progress nullifying S#&$e like Nihil and Exploiter. Edited February 6 by SneakyErvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raikh Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 While I do not like fights where the only thing going on is avoiding oneshots I do appreciate the Fragmented a lot more than any of the gimmick Bosses that barely qualify as fights. I just wanna fight something in this game with a Setup of my choice and it being able to take a hit w/o needing immunity phases with mini games, or needing to do it in Operator/Nechramech/Railjack/Archwing and the Fragmented is the closest thing we've gotten yet. Void Angels are fine compared to previous Operator based fights but they still feel boring as hell doing the cycle twice with its regular HP bar being practically non-existant. Oro Wyrm just straight up sucks horribly. Chasing it is either irrelevant or annoying and then you just shoot 3 rings and kill random mobs spawning around the arena. It has spectacle for sure, but it has no substance as a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnstarPrime Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Warframe seems like it was designed from the ground up to pit the player against an army of basic dudes that can be dunked on, and it does that very very well. But the core game mechanics that work great against hordes generally don't work against an enduring boss. So I'm not surprised that Warframe is littered with bosses that aren't fun to fight. In recent years, DE has certainly improved at making boss fights! But if I'm honest, it's just that these boss fights aren't as bad as we've come to expect; in some cases they are passable, but they generally don't reach the threshold of good. Which is why I don't recommend looking for a good boss experience in Warframe. Instead, get that experience somewhere else. Personally, I really like Monster Hunter, which is the inverse of Warframe in this conversation: it's great at boss fights, but the mechanics that make it great at boss fights make it merely passable against smaller enemies. Which isn't to say a game can't be designed to do both, but both of these games have made double-edged design choices that make them better at one thing and worse at another, which is an entirely valid way to design a game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 How the hell are you being instakilled by that boss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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