What warframes need a rework?

[PoppyPrince]

Personally i wouldn't mind to even spare niche frames, for example, melee-oriented ones: Valkyr/Garuda/Atlas, some people just love punching stuff.
But some others (in my humble opinion) can be considered obsolete. Like this ones:
1) Nyx - She was supposed to be CC queen, but look where are we now. All her kit looks either bleak or "ok, but we have better analogues".
2) Chroma - Helminth material. End of story.
3) Inaros - Ok, devs announced a rework for him, he is spared from a trash bin, yet.
4) Gara - On a paper: mighty frame with good survivability and InSaNe damage. In reality: i saw my last Gara, like, a year ago? May be even 2 years. I don't say she is weak, i ask where are Garas?
5) Banshee - The biggest dmg amp haver in the game…how often do you see her, honestly?
6) Ivara - a joke. Her 2 is insanely niche, 1 and 3 meet the famous "meh, there are much better analogues". Yes, her bow can 1shot 180lvl CHGs with SP modifiers, but, cmon, just take bramma at this point.
7) Styanax - while having pretty comfy kit, he offers nothign special or flashy. Understandably fogotten.
8) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. 
9) Culervo - He is borderline ok, since he is a niche for…heavy attack enjoyers??? Seen any?
10) Kaliban - honestly, a surprise for me. Dude offers armor/shield strip and dmg vulnerability in ONE kit (warframes are usually given 1 of these 2), moreover this can go further beyond with Helminth, but he seems completely forgotten.

Hydroid rework was majestic (now fairly my main) and i think these frames deserve Hydroid treatment.

 TL;DR - My main point isn't about their strength. My main point is: how often do you even see these frames?
https://www.warframe.com/ru/2023stats
As you can see, most of mentioned frames are placed in second half of these stats. I agree not to touch ~newborn frames since they didn't get their true place yet.

Edited February 10 by PoppyPrince

[Tiltskillet]

Nezha, Styanax, Voruna...Kullervo...

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

I just want Valkyr to get a new 1 and 3 plus(not specific to Valkyr) make exalted weapons be able to use every mod they shouldn't be weaker than normal melee for the cost to maintain it.

12 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

Voruna, Nezha, Styanax

These were a bit weird to see.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

I'm afraid to say I don't see the connection between Lavos and Nezha here, they really don't play anything alike. I don't think their niches overlap to the point of one invalidating the other. Nezha is a solid frame overall though I'd love to see some buffs and/or weird augments for Chakram. 

Most of these frames I would say don't need a major rework except maybe Banshee, since "reworks" in the past have included replacing an ability wholesale and Banshee definitely needs that with her 4 imo. 

[UnstarPrime]

With respect, I'm guessing you might be misunderstanding the strengths of some of these frames, so I'd strongly recommend checking out some build videos for most of the frames you listed here.  There are many frames that you seem to be misunderstanding.  If they're not your personal preference, that's valid, but that's very different from a frame needing a rework.

 

12 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

4) Gara - On a paper: mighty frame with good survivability and InSaNe damage. In reality: i saw my last Gara, like, a year ago? May be even 2 years. Just pick Khora. Same idea, much better functionality.

 

To each their own, but I can't imagine thinking that Gara has better functionality than Khora.  Though honestly, part of that is because it's hard to even think of comparing the two, as they overall do very different things.

 

18 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

7) Nezha - Was ok until Lavos happened. 

Again, these are totally different frames...

 

19 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

8) Styanax - jack of all trades, master of none. Understandably fogotten.

 

20 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

10) Kulervo - He is borderline ok, since he is a niche for…heavy attack enjoyers??? Seen any?

 

[Pakaku]

29 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

9) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. Not even mentioning crazy mana costs if you dare to go further than 200% ability STR.

I just play her as a shotgun sniper. Her 3 will drop energy orbs if you make headshot kills, but meleeing heads is awkward. Shotguns tend to make the best of close-range gun combat, although any gun will accomplish the same thing close-range, and I find my energy is always topped off

If her 4 augment was an innate part of her kit instead of a lazy band-aid patch, I'd consider her whole kit built perfectly fine

Edited February 10 by Pakaku

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

The fact that you have Voruna, Kullervo, Gara, and especially Garuda here is wild.  

This thread is going to be priceless

[quxier]

31 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

8) Styanax - jack of all trades, master of none. Understandably fogotten.

To be honest it has just some issues:

- 1st should create vortex on any enemy

- we should be able to cast abilities during 4th

- ability to recast 4th

- his passives should give more crit or +n flat crit otherwise it's just for big crit weapons

32 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

9) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. Not even mentioning crazy mana costs if you dare to go further than 200% ability STR.

That's not complete right.

 

Her first alone is meant for sneak melee attack. However you can turn 1st and use 4th without loosing invisibility & damage buff.

Her 4th with augment will easily sustain you. You only need kill with slash.

After her  augment for 4th, her 2nd is kind bad. That jump is bad. It proc status but it's random. For 4th you need slash.

36 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

10) Kulervo - He is borderline ok, since he is a niche for…heavy attack enjoyers??? Seen any?

Yes it's melee frame (no need to use with heavies) but you can use it for gunning. His 3rd spread damage. You have some CC in abilities.

38 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

11) Kaliban - honestly, a surprise for me. Dude offers armor/shield strip and dmg vulnerability in ONE kit (warframes are usually given 1 of these 2), moreover this can go further beyond with Helminth, but he seems completely forgotten.

I think I've played different frame, named Caliban (pun slightly intended). You have damage vunerability... that is WEAK. His armor strip cost is ok but the rest of his kit is bad. If I want static armor strip I will use Xaku. Put 2 Gaze, grab guns and I just have to run.

41 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

Hydroid rework was majestic (now fairly my main) and i think these frames deserve Hydroid treatment.

 

Removing 1 interesting ability, making him powerful but slightly boring is not majestic imho. Don't do that to frames.

17 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

46 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

9) Voruna - I have a soft spot for muscle women, but they straight up butchered her with a kit like that. Her 1, 2 and 4 encourage her to be in close quarters, however the impact of 4 isn't really worth jumping at the crowd and without 4 she hasn't have her "charm" of a wild huntress. Not even mentioning crazy mana costs if you dare to go further than 200% ability STR.

I just play her as a shotgun sniper. Her 3 will drop energy orbs if you make headshot kills, but meleeing heads is awkward. Shotguns tend to make the best of close-range gun combat, although any gun will accomplish the same thing close-range, and I find my energy is always topped off

Or you can just slap Equilibrum and melee enemies. Headshots requires some aiming (even minimal) but melee is much easier.

[Hexerin]

[Xzorn]

Only one I agree with is Nyx and that's because I protested her rework in the first place because I knew it would only make her worse.
Had over 900h in-mission hours with her and I never play her anymore.

Chroma - A monster. Pretty much contender for best brawler frame despite having two dead abilities.
Inaros - His kit was DOA. Nothing but spamming 1 and status immunity. It took the devs 8 years to realize that.
Gara - Big survivor. Big Damage. Shame they butchered her wall. She was the whole kit when she came out.
Banshee - Highest damage amp in the game. Also highest skill cap. Maybe that's why you don't see her.
Ivara - Great kit. Surpasses many frames in certain situations. Designed for a different game though.
Nezha - Never liked him but don't hate when a competent one is on my team. Decent CC, good survival.
Styanax - Good survival with 2 gates to break. Group value consistently refreshing Shield Gate. I'm personally meh on Armor strip.
Voruna - You're doing something wrong. She demolishes level 900's. 2 tapping Eximus. Very strict playstyle though.
Kullervo - Melee damage monster. Less survival than Rhino or similar but good enough to get it done.
Caliban - Yea, not sure on that one. Shield Gate testing? Not one I bothered with.

[Aldain]

Imo aside from the announced Inaros (who I admit does need it too)?

Loki, Nyx and Ash would be my top 3.

Half of Loki's kit is basically useless (plus more and more things can't be disarmed by his 4 so that only leaves his Invis as a generally useful ability), Nyx barely does anything (no, you cannot convince me Chaos is good CC, it gets worse every time DE makes a CC frame) and Ash needs some major QoL, especially on his 4, a targeting cone, a Mesa-like circle...anything other than slow ass laser pointer marking.

Why Inaros was the priority before any of these three I'll never know, at least Inaros was moderately tanky and had pocket sand...

Edited February 10 by Aldain

[Xzorn]

Frames that actually need reworks.

Ember
Equinox (mechanical)
Garuda (mechanical)
Loki - (I'm scared)
Mirage
Nyx
Valkyr

Mechanical = Design quirks or choices that prevent them from performing well as they could. Their kit isn't the issue.

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Frames that actually need reworks.

Ember
Equinox (mechanical)
Garuda (mechanical)
Loki - (I'm scared)
Mirage
Nyx
Valkyr

Mechanical = Design quirks or choices that prevent them from performing well as they could. Their kit isn't the issue.

Pretty much agree with the list, but I'd add Ash in under that mechanical tier, with all the room deleting nonsense they've added over the years I swear you could completely revert his 4 to the old auto murder button it was and it would probably still be slower and less potent than most modern AoE.

[0_The_F00l]

I have a problem with some of the frames in the OPs list which are in no need of a rework. And they should re evaluate their playstyle and choice of builds .

As to the actual topic.

I feel equinox , power house that she is , needs some qol changes. Things to make her gameplay smoother , I will settle for making her energy transfer and any other of her augments innate to her base kit. On a more drastic level , I would love to have seperate modding for her two forms.

Nyx has fallen back quite a bit , mostly cause enemies have started to become more and more resistant to CC effects.  Changes to her would need some serious consideration on relevance of CC in the game.

[PoppyPrince]

6 минут назад, Xzorn сказал:

Frames that actually need reworks.

Ember
Equinox (mechanical)
Garuda (mechanical)
Loki - (I'm scared)
Mirage
Nyx
Valkyr

Mechanical = Design quirks or choices that prevent them from performing well as they could. Their kit isn't the issue.

Ember is nuker for lazy, she is fine. Just spam 4 up to lvl 90, then add 3 before 4.
Equinox, while being also a jack of all trades, probably offers as much functionality as ONE warframe can offer.
What's up with Garuda and Valkyr?
Loki was made for lazy spy missions.
Mirage is good nuker and has good 1x1 dmg.
I am in agreement about Nyx tho.

[Mazifet]

10 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Equinox

As an equinox main, you are right. Perhaps not a full rework, but really some qol on her abilities would be very nice to see. She has some really weird design choices like falloff on two of her abilities, along with just general weirdness with the way her abilities work.

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

As an equinox main, you are right. Perhaps not a full rework, but really some qol on her abilities would be very nice to see. She has some really weird design choices like falloff on two of her abilities, along with just general weirdness with the way her abilities work.

I'd love to see Equinox receive Sevagoth tech so you can properly utilize both forms in a mission by modding both Day and Night separately with different builds.

Edited February 10 by Voltage

[TARINunit9]

ITT, OP doesn't know how to use some of the strongest frames in the game and blames everything but himself

[PoppyPrince]

9 минут назад, TARINunit9 сказал:

ITT, OP doesn't know how to use some of the strongest frames in the game and blames everything but himself

i called "weak" only a few of them, my much more constant question was: where are they?

[Mazifet]

12 minutes ago, Voltage said:

I'd love to see Equinox receive Sevagoth tech so you can properly utilize both forms in a mission by modding both Day and Night separately with different builds.

I'd honestly love that. They should also make her 3rd's energy drain have a cap like gloom.

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, Mazifet said:

I'd honestly love that. They should also make her 3rd's energy drain have a cap like gloom.

I asked for this the moment we got Sevagoth. 

sad Equinox noises

[PoppyPrince]

57 минут назад, (XBOX)zThulsaDoomz сказал:

The fact that you have Voruna, Kullervo, Gara, and especially Garuda here is wild.  

This thread is going to be priceless

 

1 час назад, UnstarPrime сказал:

With respect, I'm guessing you might be misunderstanding the strengths of some of these frames, so I'd strongly recommend checking out some build videos for most of the frames you listed here.  There are many frames that you seem to be misunderstanding.  If they're not your personal preference, that's valid, but that's very different from a frame needing a rework.

 

 

To each their own, but I can't imagine thinking that Gara has better functionality than Khora.  Though honestly, part of that is because it's hard to even think of comparing the two, as they overall do very different things.

 

Again, these are totally different frames...

 

 

 

 

50 минут назад, Xzorn сказал:

Only one I agree with is Nyx and that's because I protested her rework in the first place because I knew it would only make her worse.
Had over 900h in-mission hours with her and I never play her anymore.

Chroma - A monster. Pretty much contender for best brawler frame despite having two dead abilities.
Inaros - His kit was DOA. Nothing but spamming 1 and status immunity. It took the devs 8 years to realize that.
Gara - Big survivor. Big Damage. Shame they butchered her wall. She was the whole kit when she came out.
Banshee - Highest damage amp in the game. Also highest skill cap. Maybe that's why you don't see her.
Ivara - Great kit. Surpasses many frames in certain situations. Designed for a different game though.
Nezha - Never liked him but don't hate when a competent one is on my team. Decent CC, good survival.
Styanax - Good survival with 2 gates to break. Group value consistently refreshing Shield Gate. I'm personally meh on Armor strip.
Voruna - You're doing something wrong. She demolishes level 900's. 2 tapping Eximus. Very strict playstyle though.
Kullervo - Melee damage monster. Less survival than Rhino or similar but good enough to get it done.
Caliban - Yea, not sure on that one. Shield Gate testing? Not one I bothered with.

i will copypaste my previous answer:
i called "weak" only a few of them, my much more constant question was: where are they? Famous Gara always gets furious protection in any thread, however gets 0 attention in game. I wanted to write this thread a month ago, so i started to pay double attention which frames people take with me on sorties/relics/archon hunts and etc. Moreover i was always curious about my teams' choices because i don't mind being a teamplayer and complimenting my comrades' abilities, so i have a very clear year worth impression in my head about "common" choices.

[Xzorn]

27 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Pretty much agree with the list, but I'd add Ash in under that mechanical tier, with all the room deleting nonsense they've added over the years I swear you could completely revert his 4 to the old auto murder button it was and it would probably still be slower and less potent than most modern AoE.

 

Yea, Ash is one I acknowledge but I've also seen him perform well despite the clunky 4th.
When they did that rework I made a suggestion. I think it was simple as allowing Ability Range to increase the mark distance from the reticle. Having to "Mesa" target your marks isn't something they should be going for. I felt a more "cone of sight" interaction would feel much better.

 

32 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

As an equinox main, you are right. Perhaps not a full rework, but really some qol on her abilities would be very nice to see. She has some really weird design choices like falloff on two of her abilities, along with just general weirdness with the way her abilities work.

 

I recently made a Topic on Equinox. My main issues with how her kit functions or doesn't function quite right.

When you could equip Arcane Energize x2 I actually managed to get a dual Equinox build mostly working but still had issues.

[Xzorn]

44 minutes ago, PoppyPrince said:

Ember is nuker for lazy, she is fine. Just spam 4 up to lvl 90, then add 3 before 4.
Equinox, while being also a jack of all trades, probably offers as much functionality as ONE warframe can offer.
What's up with Garuda and Valkyr?
Loki was made for lazy spy missions.
Mirage is good nuker and has good 1x1 dmg.
I am in agreement about Nyx tho.

 

Ember is in horrible shape. Her DR vs the CC she lost isn't really worth it. Esp for the management. To sum it all up easily. Ember needs Accelerant back.

Equinox's kit can do a lot of things but Equinox herself is fairly limited per build you make for her. Her theme doesn't work right due to nonsense designs.

Garuda suffers from a few quirks. Her shield suffers from most. It's slow, doesn't block radial damage and doesn't move vertical. This automatically put Garuda as a backline support weird caster unless you use her invulnerability augment. Despite being blood and quasi HP based she's more durable using Energy. In all, she's a frame that can only stand in the back and spam 4 without her augments. I have no idea why they did Volt's Shield perfect and scuffed hers so badly.

Loki's Decoy was destroyed years ago. It used to be immortal and duration based with heavy threat. Saryn's molt was the same and she could have multiple. They gave Saryn back some of her molt power but gave Loki nothing. Switch Teleport never got a good augment and it's always been both a power play and very niche.

It's hard to explain how bad Mirage is now compared to her release. She was nerfed multiple times then reworked with mostly her 3rd in mind which didn't work properly. It was bugged forever and now relies on an augment to function again. Lightning changes also destroyed her. Eclipse used to be full value all the time. Her 4th wasn't originally a damage skill. It was a mass Blind skill. They nerf'd it into that. Everything about her kit is just outdated and nearly random in performance.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

Well, are we talking full overhauls or just mechanical tweaks? I'll assume both;

Limbo - Probably the only Warframe left that has a really anti-team style kit that I would hope DE actually meaningfully changes. The Rift mechanically is just an inconsistent mess and his whole style of play just causes way too many issues.

Atlas - While he's my favorite personally, his kit is really lackluster and only shines due to a bunch of odd ability and melee interactions DE is eventually going to change. I would hope the rest of his kit is brought up to par before they nerf stat sticks, just throwing Bulwark in the trash would be a great start.

Caliban - Outside of how painfully bad Razor Gyre is, I think Caliban just suffers from a lot of really annoying and clunky mechanics a few QoL tweaks could fix really easily. Make him buff other DR sources in general instead of his diet Adaptation as a quick example, I want to like him.

Loki - I think Loki is just really, really old and could use a full rework to bring him up to par with other Warframes. Outside of Disarm, his kit is just super outdated and could use some more TLC to bring him up to snuff.