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Helldivers 2


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I've been watching the lastest greatest game out there (no, not Palworld) and it strikes me that if DE likes to take inspiration from games to put into WF, as we saw with the Elden Ring inspired Duviri combat stuff, then De could do a lot worse than go back to the operator timeline and give us the new war, inspired by slightly open world missions fighting sentients on varous planets. HD2 looks awesome, everyone seems to really like it, there's great mechanics that make interesting gameplay decisions and its a great fun co-op shooting the hell out of things.

Gameplay: eg limited ammo that aren't loot drops but resupply and location crates meaning you have a time limit based on ammo. Missions are open, no linear maps where players can just run off and kill everything leaving you behind. Extra features come from air support as does resupply with cooldowns. These are all great ideas that solve some of the most awkward parts of warframe gameplay now without requiring nerfs to speed or damage or capabilities.

 

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The games are WAY too different to each other for that design wise, especially in the numbers department (HD2's numbers are mostly static, WF's are exponential and non-Euclidean 90% of the time).

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DE isn't out here taking inspiration from recent games and Duviri isn't the first game to have a lock-on system.

 

Also just to nitpick on Helldivers itself for a second I find it ridiculous that it's taking off when the exact same game has been around for nearly a year, for less money, doesn't require a 3rd party account, and isn't grossly monetized: Starship Troopers: Extermination. Like it's almost the exact same where you're a bunch of faceless space marines dropped down onto an alien planet to kill bugs because they're somehow threatening your authoritative earth government. The only "catch" is that ST:E is still in early access.

Edited by trst
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5 minutes ago, trst said:

and isn't grossly monetized:

Yeah, I am holding off on helldivers 2 until they show their hand regarding the DLC practices.

I mean helldivers 1 had a DLC for "All Terrain Boots", which removed the penalty of walking in snow and swamps.  Those planets were utterly miserable to go through without that DLC, because without the DLC you can't sprint in snow or swamp.
Sure it only cost 3 dollars, but should a game really be charging 3 dollars to allow you to sprint on all of its maps?

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5 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

as we saw with the Elden Ring inspired Duviri combat stuff

Did anyone from DE actually say that Duviri combat was inspired by Elden Ring?  Because as someone who adores Elden Ring's combat, Duviri's combat is wildly different*.

 

*and it was in development long before Elden Ring was released

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7 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

I've been watching the lastest greatest game out there (no, not Palworld) and it strikes me that if DE likes to take inspiration from games to put into WF, as we saw with the Elden Ring inspired Duviri combat stuff, then De could do a lot worse than go back to the operator timeline and give us the new war, inspired by slightly open world missions fighting sentients on varous planets. HD2 looks awesome, everyone seems to really like it, there's great mechanics that make interesting gameplay decisions and its a great fun co-op shooting the hell out of things.

Gameplay: eg limited ammo that aren't loot drops but resupply and location crates meaning you have a time limit based on ammo. Missions are open, no linear maps where players can just run off and kill everything leaving you behind. Extra features come from air support as does resupply with cooldowns. These are all great ideas that solve some of the most awkward parts of warframe gameplay now without requiring nerfs to speed or damage or capabilities.

 

"I like helldivers two so we should put it into Warframe" 

 

No, and also, Duviri was more like Sekiro than Elden Ring, except slower paced. It could probably be compared to multiple other melee-based games as well.

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32 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

I'll be honest, I'm split down the middle trying to tell whether you're being sarcastic or not.  Lunaro seems far more like the real-world sport Lacrosse than it does cars playing soccer.

Rocket League came out July 2015 and it was a smash hit. It's easy to forget now, but Rocket League was THE king of the hill that year, an esports sensation and flavor of the month for several months

And knowing how long it takes DE to make content, Lunaro would have started development August 2015

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33 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Rocket League came out July 2015 and it was a smash hit. It's easy to forget now, but Rocket League was THE king of the hill that year, an esports sensation and flavor of the month for several months

And knowing how long it takes DE to make content, Lunaro would have started development August 2015

That said, I do think Lunaro is a bit more distinct and draws inspiration from a few other sources rather than being a straight ripoff.

I once heard somebody say "Imagine if Lacrosse and Quidditch had a baby from a drunken one night stand and the baby was raised by Rocket League", made me laugh at the time but feels rather accurate in retrospect.

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12 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

HD2 looks awesome, everyone seems to really like it, there's great mechanics that make interesting gameplay decisions and its a great fun co-op shooting the hell out of things.

I've been playing it A LOT and I have to agree, it's a fantastic game, but it's not without bugs.. and I'm not just talking about the ones that get mowed down by the hundreds, like, the Devs are workign 12 hours shifts because there's server-side issues and the actual number of people playing dwarfs the number they expected... Arrowhead could genuinely "make it outta the hood with this one", maybe even get some awards, but only once the game is fixed. personally I intend to keep playing for the foreseeable and spend my time between warframe updates there. 

all that said, it's a VERY different game from warframe:

12 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

Gameplay: eg limited ammo that aren't loot drops but resupply and location crates meaning you have a time limit based on ammo. Missions are open, no linear maps where players can just run off and kill everything leaving you behind. Extra features come from air support as does resupply with cooldowns. These are all great ideas that solve some of the most awkward parts of warframe gameplay now without requiring nerfs to speed or damage or capabilities.

- ammo limits are already in place on the worst AoE offender weapons, for other weapons this would basically be a straight nerf. ammo doesn't really limit time per se, it just limits the time you spend fighting instead of running around waiting to get more ammo. it's not everyone's idea of fun to dump a couple mags then have to run for your life every 5 minutes, and it works in Helldivers because there's actual danger of being killed: even when we're out of ammo, why would our heavily shielded/armored warframes with powerful melee weapons ever need to run away? it wouldn't work in warframe at all.

- we have open worlds, and if you've ever played on them in public matchmaking, you've probably encountered one or two people who go fishing or mining while everyone esle is trying to get the bounty done; in Helldivers it's hella risky to strike out on your own because again, you are squish as hell and ammo is limited, so safety is in numbers. you still get people doing this in warframe, especially since there's no risk to being caught alone by enemies.

- we already have powers, we don't need air support, though it does remind me how Vauban's 3 is an awesome looking power that should be buffed.

7 hours ago, trst said:

The only "catch" is that ST:E is still in early access.

and it's not coming to console. there are other platforms around after all! I'd play that too if I could.

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There's really not enough to Helldivers 2 for Warframe to draw influence from it. I'd rather DE look at games like COD in terms of technical stuff like the quality of animations, sound design, and general enemy behavior, and Battlefield in terms of a combined arms-approach to open world, and maybe something like Destiny 2 in terms of having social gameplay spaces where many players can engage in gameplay in the same gameplay space. Beyond that, there are things that DE can do with Warframe without needed to look at other games. They really just need to be dedicated to make the gameplay the absolute best it can be and to expand the gameplay experience.

EDIT: Having played a *lot* more Helldivers, one thing I will say DE could draw from Helldivers 2 is how explosions feel. I'd add to that enemy behavior, particularly Infested enemy behavior. There's some cool things with the Terminids that DE could draw from to make the Infested feel more threatening.

Edited by OniDax
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8 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

I've been playing it A LOT and I have to agree, it's a fantastic game, but it's not without bugs.. and I'm not just talking about the ones that get mowed down by the hundreds, like, the Devs are workign 12 hours shifts because there's server-side issues and the actual number of people playing dwarfs the number they expected... Arrowhead could genuinely "make it outta the hood with this one", maybe even get some awards, but only once the game is fixed. personally I intend to keep playing for the foreseeable and spend my time between warframe updates there. 

all that said, it's a VERY different game from warframe:

- ammo limits are already in place on the worst AoE offender weapons, for other weapons this would basically be a straight nerf. ammo doesn't really limit time per se, it just limits the time you spend fighting instead of running around waiting to get more ammo. it's not everyone's idea of fun to dump a couple mags then have to run for your life every 5 minutes, and it works in Helldivers because there's actual danger of being killed: even when we're out of ammo, why would our heavily shielded/armored warframes with powerful melee weapons ever need to run away? it wouldn't work in warframe at all.

- we have open worlds, and if you've ever played on them in public matchmaking, you've probably encountered one or two people who go fishing or mining while everyone esle is trying to get the bounty done; in Helldivers it's hella risky to strike out on your own because again, you are squish as hell and ammo is limited, so safety is in numbers. you still get people doing this in warframe, especially since there's no risk to being caught alone by enemies.

- we already have powers, we don't need air support, though it does remind me how Vauban's 3 is an awesome looking power that should be buffed.

and it's not coming to console. there are other platforms around after all! I'd play that too if I could.

WRT open worlds, the difference is that an open world tries to be everything all at once. A HD2 mission wouldn't be that, there wouldn't be any fishing or mining to do. It would be all mission (like say, survival) but over a larger area with more points of battle and areas to locate and manage as part of the mission. Not much different from regular missions except ot be a lot less linear.

Ammo, I thought it'd be a cool feature to have to manage your ammo to provide a way to regulate the mission length that wasn't just kill everything until you're bored. Getting rid of drops also stops the loot farming attitudes we have, instead you go get the loot from locations. It mixes things up a little and WF needs some of that.

Air support adds some interest ideas, as we alreayd have similar flavour of mechanics in things like Zariman tower defence where you build the turrets, This could add a lot more features to that I think.

11 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Taking inspiration from a game that installs malware on your system is not the great take you think it is.

HD2 production team are obviously stoopids. WF production team are awesome. What was your point?

 

Overall, I think as games go for DE to take inspiration from (and there are a lot showing in WF development over the years), this one wouldn't be a bad concept to take on. It obviously woulnd't be anything really like HD2, but the basis of it would give DE something other than another linear exterminate run, or a mobile defence. The only thing they've really added that's "new" is the collect-the-mushrooms parkour challenge missions. I would be very happy if we got an open-area assault mission that also incoporated railjack in some way, but I won't hold my breath on that,

Edited by CephalonCarnage
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They’ll have to keep a tighter leash on the options we can utilise so that the game can function as intended without players having to figure out what it’s meant to be like. HD2’s pretty good so far, though players aren’t also afforded the free rein of Warframe so it kind of gives no other option except to play as intended

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  • 3 weeks later...

They are(fortunately) 2 completely different games.

1) WF is more a gocha game than a real extraction shooter.

2) They threw up so much stuff it's impossible to balance the game at the actual state of the game.

3) No end game.

4) It's a the end of his cycle of life. 

5) It's free.

 

1) HD2 is new and its missions are not very various.

2) It's HUD it's pretty confusing.

3) It requires strategy due to friendly fire.

4) You can't spam abilities like being in god mode.

5) Graphically it's by far superior.

 

Edited by bibmobello
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Eh, it was fun while exploring, but i got bored of palworld after setting up a superfactory and capturing all the pals. Just doesn't have that same gameplay loop that WF or helldivers 2 does that keeps you coming back.

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Having played more Helldiver’s 2, if there’s going to be inspiration drawn, I’d like a mode where friendly fire is on.

It changed the decision-making process so much and is fun to coordinate and laugh over mistakes, and adds some surprising depth to the game. I’d be all over a modifier or something for Warframe that enabled it; better hope players know how to complete the mission without obliterating their teammates or the objective in their careless rampaging

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