Lucky catch is a lot worse than Charm, change my mind!

[-ShadowRadiance-]

9 hours ago, vFlitz said:

So basically you don't give a damn just because you have no experience to know what others are losing and can't even be bothered to look past the tip of your own nose.

As an opinion this is worse than irrelevant, and yet you still felt the urge to voice it for seemingly no reason other than being snide.

Oh. I did my fair share of SE runs in dedicated groups. As wisp. Nekros. Khora or nova. Ive done all that. Thats where i did use smeeta. And where i learned to hate it.

The niche runs ln nekros. Is what i do once in s blue moon on eris these days.

MOST BORING gameplay to exist. If anything. Im happy DE killed it. 

If i end up in a survival run where im expected as nekros to tab out in a safe location. Or stay in a room and watch paint dry again as others wait for their cat to roll snakr eyes twice or more, il just abandon the mission if ppl try to force it in random missions. F that afk gameplay. 

Thats not gameplay i will ever support ever again.

 

Now. On topic. 

Again. As i dont use smeeta. I see nothing negative with the 'death' of smeeta loot buff. If anything these new mods will be used by MORE TENNO. Overall give more benefit to the community. 

And i am happy for them!

Edited September 30 by -ShadowRadiance-

[(PSN)robotwars7]

of course it's a nerf to the Smeeta. that was a given, surely? the lack of foresight some people have amazes me. I'm also amazed it took this long, but then we all know what happens when things get nerfed..

grinding new resources when they come out is a large part of the game, obviously they don't want you to have it too easy. 

 

[TARINunit9]

16 hours ago, (PSN)Cephalon_Scarlet said:

Its not a nerf if it renders everything else worth using imo.  And by that i mean every other companions

Under strict definition, it is a nerf

But nerfs can be good and healthy. Which this is

[_Anise_]

On 2024-09-30 at 12:58 AM, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Thats not gameplay i will ever support ever again.

hey they nerfed the cat no longer works, we are going to need you to be Nekros for us! hope you're fine with that!

/jk yeah I had someone ask me todo that one time and I deleted them, I am not wasting me time being the groups afk Piñata.

On 2024-09-30 at 1:03 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

of course it's a nerf to the Smeeta. that was a given, surely? the lack of foresight

no lack of forsight but lack of reading, go back to page 2, making it universal was exactly forsight and the nerf that I predicted, I have chats probably from last year asking for exiactly universal charm!!! (be careful what you wish for... well this isn't really universal charm)

also nerfing the universal version to be much worse? not as much foresight on that. like I said on the previous page, they could have kept the buff window and just made items that dropped during that window double up on drop instead of making all loot collected in that time frame doubled up, it would have solved the ONLY justification they had for nerfing charm this bad.

given the only option to get double loot now is to be extremely lucky on sorties/login rewards or the extremely rare caches(think?), or just pay DE

yeah just pay them for this buff instead, its not pay*win, just do it's healthy for the game! ( sarcasm )

(not against spending money on warframe I have done it several times I might do it again, but I draw the line at buying lootboxes or boosters in general)

Is it the end of the world? no probably not, I don't think DE will do anything about it either, just stating how I feel about it in general, its a huge nerf and the replacement isn't near as good as the original

Edited Tuesday at 03:48 AM by _Anise_

[Joylesstuna]

48 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

The niche runs ln nekros. Is what i do once in s blue moon on eris these days.

MOST BORING gameplay to exist. If anything. Im happy DE killed it. 

 

Sad to say sounds like your going to have to whip out your nekros alot more because of the nerf you are so happy for.

Edited September 30 by Joylesstuna
Seems I was too late and someone already used that joke

[L3512]

When the companion rework was announced most players were correct to assume charm was for the chopping block. So while it is a nerf and we as player really have no choice here, it's not as bad as it could be and is an ok middle ground apart from being beast specific which seems an unnecessary restriction.

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

it's not as bad as it could be and is an ok middle ground

 "It could be worse" sure I will take that.. maybe! 😅

1 hour ago, L3512 said:

apart from being beast specific which seems an unnecessary restriction

I think it might be because mechs have spare parts? (even though they forgot moa) while its not generating addition drops it's increasing the chance of initial drops, I have no idea how todo the numbers to calculate if it compares to Lucky catch without idk doing multiple runs with both mods on to see how the loot averages out.

Edited September 30 by _Anise_

[PrideB4TheFall]

5 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Under strict definition, it is a nerf

But nerfs can be good and healthy. Which this is

Tell me how it is good when I have zero ferrite, and the buff I had to make things doable is going to be removed.

[Monolake]

Soft nerf to Smeeta, good buff to everyone else - DE handled it well.  (AFK botfarmers who use Vulps must be extremely happy)

[PrideB4TheFall]

1 minute ago, Monolake said:

Soft nerf to Smeeta, good buff to everyone else - DE handled it well.  (AFK botfarmers who use Vulps must be extremely happy)

Ain't nothing soft about it.

[.Fire_Fly.]

15 hours ago, PrideB4TheFall said:

Yeah... you're probably not a dojo owner either.

i am been a owner of one since 2014 made it alone and still run it.  the name is "the taste of ink" its my pride and joy!

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

8 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

of course it's a nerf to the Smeeta. that was a given, surely? the lack of foresight some people have amazes me. I'm also amazed it took this long, but then we all know what happens when things get nerfed..

grinding new resources when they come out is a large part of the game, obviously they don't want you to have it too easy. 

 

I can't tell you how many times I've run sp kuvival fissure with a smeeta for well over an hour sometimes 2 or 3 and not seen one doubled drop of SE or kuva. 

If anything this sounds like a buff.

[IvaraQT]

On 2024-09-29 at 4:30 AM, FulfillMyWill said:

IMO, this is the same situation as with Void Dash -> void sling: DE saying "we are improving QoL" instead of "we are nerfing it" to reduce backlash.

Makes me kinda sad to see old content being removed to make way for something worse. Void dash and Itzal teleport was so satisfying. Feels awkward now to spam shift and lose momentum because you are on cd for blink teleport.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

To me it's a buff, I never waited around for it to randomly proc. I also had a huge chunk of missions, maybe even the vast majority, where it never procd whatsoever. 

Now there's a chance with every pick-up. No waiting, no cooldown. 

I often see complaints exclusively because of steel essence. Maybe people should advocate for that specific drop to increase. Personally, I was never satisfied with how few they drop, hence I don't even play steel path. 

[Ogger]

23 hours ago, PristineCore said:

Smeeta Kavat Resource buff are 2.8% in total Calculation while the new mod around 10%, how this is worse ?

because as it seems this mod will apply on pick up while smeeta was a buff with a duration. There were multiple ways to enhance your chance to proc and the duration (with tek enhance)

Waiting for a proc and then picking something up knowing you will get double is incredibly more reliable than a 10% chance on pick up.

Many farming methods will be affected by it. I personally do not like that smeeta was mandatory when farming for resources or the janky mechanics associated with the buff but 10% is way too low.

Even when not paying attention whenever I compare results between teammates running with smeeta and those without it it was usually around 30% more steel essence on running with smeeta than running without it.

[L3512]

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

 "It could be worse" sure I will take that.. maybe! 😅

Smeeta would always be the best companion if charm stayed the same, the second half of the companion rework would basically be wasted effort as nothing competes with a resource booster.

I don't really like the nerf but it's better than it could have been. People also tend to remember the good buffs rather than all the times absolutely nothing happened, my Smeeta is very lazy and would probably be handily beat by a 18% chance for double drops.

 

6 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

 I think it might be because mechs have spare parts? (even though they forgot moa) while its not generating addition drops it's increasing the chance of initial drops, I have no idea how todo the numbers to calculate if it compares to Lucky catch without idk doing multiple runs with both mods on to see how the loot averages out.

Making Spare Parts and the new mods mutually exclusive would be a good option.

Edited Monday at 12:20 PM by L3512

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Its usefulness has been reduced to the point where it's not worth wasting a mod slot slot for.

It's a nerf.

But since beast offensive mods are being moved to their weapon, beasts will have a couple or few flex slots for it, so it's whatever.

 

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, PurpleDraken said:

It's a nerf for every ressources, Kuva is farmed in Arbitration, not survival. You don't seem to really grasp how big of a loss the nerf actually is. Putting SE aside, after the update, if you want a specific ressources, you will feel the nerf after 20min of farming. 13%/18% doesn't means you will actually get it, if unlucky, it will never proc at all for rare ressources (Argon,Vitus,Tellure etc...). The current charm makes it that at least, by waiting, you can garanty x2 or more for that ressource.

Kuva in arbitrations is only really viable under specific conditions, and require grouping in order to be remotely efficient compared to kuva SP survival and disruption. This change is done as a benefit for a larger portion of the community. This also is a massive benefit to melee play, since it is practically impossible to exploit current charm as melee, because you just cannot wait because you are often too close to everything.

Charm at the moment can also totally missfire for full runs, since it can end up not rolling the 2x loot at all. I've had it happen several times in decently long run. Like in old SP where you needed to stay for atleast 1h and 30m to make it remotely worthwhile to farm, where you could exit with just the regular amount of SE expected for such a run. And with acolytes it has missfired more due to their timed spawns. Atleast now there will be an attempt at every kill to gain double resources. Which should come out at a bit below 1 in every 5 pick ups of a single resource.

I also wonder how you arrived at 20m being some mark for feeling a nerf from this? Where does that magic number come from? The chance for charm doesnt increase the longer you go, neither does the new mod. Chance is still just chance.

[_Anise_]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

To me it's a buff, I never waited around for it to randomly proc. I also had a huge chunk of missions, maybe even the vast majority

Im the same as you, I never exploited the buff I always just had it line up with loot naturally,

It was satisifying to come out of a relic mission with around 100 void tracers completely at random (arguably one of the worst farms in the game!!!) how it currently worked, if smeetas buff was active upon collecting the last void trace you would get double the tracers for the whole mission on the end screen!!!!

If you did short missions like capture like mobile defense it was nearly guarantied that you get double void relics if you got the smeeta buff at all which on average this happened about every 1 in 4 missions = 25% of the time, with the new buff (if it works the same on collected the last void tracer) it will happened about 1 in every 50 missions. :/

8 hours ago, Ogger said:

but 10% is way too low

I think it feels low too but hindsight did some napkin math and now I am not sure, I think if you can achieve a really high KPM, it can statistically generate more random loot than the old buff, for meta afk farmers they are getting more loot with no control over rare loot, the average low KPM player who just plays what they enjoy and doesn't care about "meta" are getting less loot with less chance and no control over rare loot!

conclusion? I think the hard farms become slightly harder for "normal" players wanting to use this. afk farmers are getting more random loot randomly. I still like the old version better.

6 hours ago, L3512 said:

Smeeta would always be the best companion if charm stayed the same

which I am not arguing for at all, I advocated for universal charm, this is NOT universal charm, again if the buff window is an issue. fix the buff window don't completely change what the mod is?

6 hours ago, L3512 said:

Making Spare Parts and the new mods mutually exclusive would be a good option.

they are, spare parts only slots in sentinels

6 hours ago, (PSN)Magician_NG said:

But since beast offensive mods are being moved to their weapon, beasts will have a couple or few flex slots for it, so it's whatever.

I had to make sacrifices to fit all of the beast mods in, I am sure I can fill it up in a heartbeat, I might have one flex slot..maybe but like you say its not worth the mod space I can think of way better flex mods like maybe the synth mod to passively generate some health orbs which I previous had to drop to make roof for bond mods.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I also wonder how you arrived at 20m being some mark for feeling a nerf from this?

missions go every 5 minutes so in 20 minutes you can expect to have seen charm activate at least twice (once every 9 and a half minutes nearly guarantied) with tek enhance that duration is  156 seconds so x2 (proc) = 312 seconds which is a 26% uptime while you are killing / looting in a vacuum. (which is why  I assume they chose 20 minutes)

actually I kinda talked myself out of it a bit here... the 13% scales with number of kills, so on unlimited enemy missions with a higher KPM you can potentially get MORE loot you just have no control over what loot, you can't say "acolyte spawned and smeeta is up quick kill him" with catch it just happens or statistically most the time it does not!

I think it makes it better for AFK farmers that use meta builds on unlimited enemy modes and worse for average low kpm joe who just enjoiys playing with stug & loki or something.

I changed my own mind, its better at random loot, horrible for rare resources, which was the only reason people used the mod!

Edited Monday at 06:33 PM by _Anise_

[Hyohakusha]

In the time it takes for you to wait for your smeeta buff to go off, you could've completed another instance of the same mission. Now you don't have to wait for the smeeta buff to go off, it's a flat 18% chance.

The trace examples are a logical fallacy; eg. you could roll 8 traces after waiting 5mins for the buff to go off for 16 total. You just wasted 5mins for less traces than you can roll normally without any kind of drop increase, because you don't know how many you're going to get until you get them.

You could've run two more fissures during that 5mins instead of wasting your time. On either of those two missions you could've rolled 16 or 25 traces and gotten far more without the buff anyway.

5mins for 2x8 = 16
7m30s, 8, 16, 25 = 49 without any kind of drop buff, and the new mod is a flat consistent rate.

More missions completed means more chances at getting what you're specifically going for, with more general loot drops, and all drops will have the equivalent of a permanent orange booster with an 18% chance of triggering on everything you pick up.

Farming RNG is about consistency, not min-maxing yourself into being less efficient.

[L3512]

2 hours ago, Hyohakusha said:

In the time it takes for you to wait for your smeeta buff to go off, you could've completed another instance of the same mission. Now you don't have to wait for the smeeta buff to go off, it's a flat 18% chance.

The trace examples are a logical fallacy; eg. you could roll 8 traces after waiting 5mins for the buff to go off for 16 total. You just wasted 5mins for less traces than you can roll normally without any kind of drop increase, because you don't know how many you're going to get until you get them.

You could've run two more fissures during that 5mins instead of wasting your time. On either of those two missions you could've rolled 16 or 25 traces and gotten far more without the buff anyway.

5mins for 2x8 = 16
7m30s, 8, 16, 25 = 49 without any kind of drop buff, and the new mod is a flat consistent rate.

More missions completed means more chances at getting what you're specifically going for, with more general loot drops, and all drops will have the equivalent of a permanent orange booster with an 18% chance of triggering on everything you pick up.

Farming RNG is about consistency, not min-maxing yourself into being less efficient.

All of that goes out the window for SE or VE, which are the two resources most players are trying to mass farm. Not only are longer missions always run but players can wait for charm to proc before picking up drops.

Void traces are always going to favour spamming fast mission for multiple reasons.

[vFlitz]

15 hours ago, (XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I can't tell you how many times I've run sp kuvival fissure with a smeeta for well over an hour sometimes 2 or 3 and not seen one doubled drop of SE or kuva. 

If anything this sounds like a buff.

This is far from the average experience though, and if you find your luck to be that bad, then you can just as well expect the new mod to never proc for the resources you want, too. On the other hand, your chance of getting very lucky for a 4x or 8x drop is now always a merciless 0%.

[Lord_Drod]

12 minutes ago, L3512 said:

All of that goes out the window for SE or VE, which are the two resources most players are trying to mass farm. Not only are longer missions always run but players can wait for charm to proc before picking up drops.

You can't do this with SE though.  Only one instance can be active at a time and it's been like that for a while, so I don't see the point of waiting especially with a resource cap on the ground, which will definitely be hit if you are waiting for that buff to come.  I've tried not picking it up, but you then have to go back to the drop every time before killing the next acolyte.

[dwqrf]

il y a 17 minutes, vFlitz a dit :

On the other hand, your chance of getting very lucky for a 4x or 8x drop is now always a merciless 0%.

As it should always have been. The mod had to be fixed somedays to remove multiples stacking procc anyways. You can't use a clear and extremely rare exploit as a reason to be upset about the democratisation of the Charm resource/credit boost.

[vFlitz]

4 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

As it should always have been. The mod had to be fixed somedays to remove multiples stacking procc anyways. You can't use a clear and extremely rare exploit as a reason to be upset about the democratisation of the Charm resource/credit boost.

Hard to call it an exploit when it's something players had no control over, and DE had years to address that part as well. Can't say I understand some of their decisions, such as choosing to patch the Devouring Attrition and Xata's Whisper interaction only after 2 years of it being somewhat common knowledge.

But you're right in that it's not the upsetting part. The actual problem is changing it from a duration effect to separate RNG check for every single resource. This removes all agency and control that made Charm so valuable when farming specific resources.

The new mod is going to help very little with targeted farming, the most I can say about it is a dejected 'better than nothing'.