Feedback On Vulpine Mask Grind And Rapier [Megathread]

[Tesseract7777]

Just getting an uncommon to drop from one of them (harbinger) took me 41 of the 42 runs I needed to farm Equinox. 

 

And I got lucky. 

 

I can't even imagine the grind it would take to get a rare. 

 

Sure, we can buy it as part of a bundle now on the market and that is definitely a step forward. But that should be implemented for all super rare stances. And I think that after a while, it would be good to sell them separately from the bundle on the market for a reasonable price. 

 

People would pay for them. I've seen people in trade chat clearly trying for ages to even find someone selling the stance they want, and they are willing to pay oodles. If DE put these stances on the market as standalone, for a halfway decent price, they would sell like hotcakes and DE would make a ton of revenue. 

 

At least we have a reliable way to buy the stance on the market even if we have to get the whole bundle. With stances like Vermilion Storm we are still left with a completely impossible task. And releasing stuff like Tempo through Void Trader was just an insult that shows they know how bad the grind for stances are and won't do anything to fix it. It's killing melee. 

 

Who wants to try/try to get into new melee weapons when each time you need to test a new one out, the stance is almost impossible to acquire? And this has just gotten worse and worse with every new melee weapon released. One of my friends plays mostly melee and one of the reasons he is burnt out and rarely plays is because the grind for stances is so absurd. Where's his motivation to play melee when every time he wants to test a new weapon he has to go through an epic journey just to obtain the corresponding stance?

 

I don't mean to sound angry or entitled, I am one of the first to usually jump to DE's defense myself but I just don't get what they are even trying to accomplish with the way they deal with stance mods. Giving us a way to buy Vulpine Mask is a good start, but the system itself is still a disaster. We don't have to deal with this with primaries or secondaries, just melee. They wonder why melee is considered unpopular and underpowered? Maybe because getting the stances that make many of the weapons better is almost impossible, even if you have money. And some of these weapons literally only have ONE stance. 

 

I'm fine with paying for things to lessen the grind, but the grind should still be somewhat reasonable. And we should have way more stances we can buy on the market. Right now this is only a start, we have a long way to go. The fact of the matter is that the grind is simply in no way reasonable. Two rare stance mods on the same super rare enemy. There is simply no defense for that. Sorry. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Tesseract7777

[Omni_Omega]

Welp, the Rapier package comes with the stance for the low low price of 220p.

 

Gotta incentivize buying plat, since most people don't use plat for new weapons.

Thankfully the pack limits the skyscraper prices people will be selling it for.

[IceColdHawk]

Wow... People asked for the stances to be at least added into the bundle and still people complain.

Did you check out where the stance drops for playing people? It's not human-friendly anymore.

[Kthal]

The chance of a Drekar Manic Bombard dropping the mod is actually 0.01% (not an exaggeration), but it can be bought from the market for platinum. Isn't that the definition of pay to win, making actual game content a cash (let's be really honest) exclusive?

 

Math:

2.01% chance to drop a mod

2.01% chance of any mod drop to be rare (pool includes common, uncommon and rare, so chance is 2.01%)

25% chance of a rare mod to be the desired one, namely Vulpine Mask

 

0.0201 * 0.0201 * 0.25 = 0.0001010025 drop chance, or 0.0101%

Edited January 14, 2016 by Kthal

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Vulpine Mask, the new and singular stance for the Rapier weapon class, drops from Manic Bombards and Drekar Manic Bombards. Yeah that's right, the same enemies that drop Vermilion Storm. Not only is this stance just as rare as Vermilion Storm when it comes to drop chance, they have made Vermilion Storm more rare in the process.

So just to reiterate, the only existing stance for this new weapon class is equally as difficult to obtain as one of the most infamously difficult mods to farm in the game. But don't worry! They have a bundle worth 220 Platinum available because they know people won't want to farm it!

Seriously though, this is rather infuriating. I understand that a lot of money went into Update 18 (with the new motion capture equipment and such) and they wanted to make the money back, but this is really pushing it. It also feels like a big middle finger to those whom were trying to farm V Storm, as it is now more rare due to another item being added to the Manic Bombard and Drekar Manic Bombard drop tables when there are numerous other enemies that could have dropped it instead.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[Thelonious]

Welp, the Rapier package comes with the stance for the low low price of 220p.

 

Gotta incentivize buying plat, since most people don't use plat for new weapons.

 

There's a thin line between incentivizing and coercing.

 

A while ago, DE crossed the line, spit on it and then set it on fire.

 

All it does, is giving me one more reason to not spend plat for anything.

And certainly not for a set of fancy, but useless animations.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Thelonious

[(PSN)robotwars7]

it's out! now the wait begins..

 

the name is pretty cool, as is the Stance (yes, I know backflips aren't an authentic part of rapier Fencing, but we're space Ninjas, we do what we want!), but I don't like the fact that it takes both Argon Crystals AND Nitain to farm. seems like they wanted it to be a pain in the backside to build... and I bet the Stance is rarer than a Unicorn Fart as well.

 

still, can't wait for it to hit console, along with the Shaku and the Sydon.

[PrVonTuckIII]

Well. Great looking weapon, with seemingly amazing stats, but that stance....

 

Might as well build up the plat to buy the set.

[UndeadLichKing]

I never knew Manic Bombards cared about Rapiers so much.

Edited January 14, 2016 by UndeadLichKing

[(PSN)robotwars7]

welp, guess I'll have to spend all week on Uranus when it drops on console..

[AM-Bunny]

There's a thin line between incentivizing and coercing.

 

A while ago, DE crossed the line, spit on it and then set it on fire.

 

Yeah, it's pretty poor form. People have been so frenzied over the Leyou acquisition, I thought DE would try really hard at least for a few months to keep this sort of thing to a minimum.

[bejuizb]

Let's go over the requirements for the rapier:

 

45000 credits for the whole thing. Good price. Nothing to complain about.
10000 Alloy Plate. Once again, reasonable.

1300 plastids. Slightly iffy. Might require a few runs of nodes for newer players.

2 Argon Crystals. Oh joy, more Void fatigue. Another reminder of the cardinal sin of removing resources from player inventories. Surely it can't get any worse, right?

5 NItain. *flips desk* I really, really, really despise bandaid resources. Nitain has no reason to exist, but to increase farm times for those who don't stockpile the damned thing and run the alerts continuously.

 

Stance drops from the very same enemy that drops the arguably rarest stance in the game. I was under the impression that the stance gave life to the melee weapon, without it, the weapon is just a E mash tool with no mechanics to it. So, let's take what we've gone over so far, and realize that it's for a product that's only 50% complete. And the product isn't even so powerful to the point where such a grind is valid for it.

 

So yeah, that's my way of compartmentalizing my anger and salt over yet another messed up opportunity of having an enjoyable melee weapon in Warframe. Back to playing other games I go.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

welp, guess I'll have to spend all week on Uranus when it drops on console..

Farming Tyl Regor for hours, even days on end, hoping that one of the two Drekar Manic Bombards drop it. Good luck man. You're gonna need it.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[DeMonkey]

 but this is really pushing it.

 

Starting to agree.

 

There's always the argument of ''they need to get paid to'' but come on, 2 almost impossible to get stances that drop from enemies found in one node? That's verging on ridiculous.

Edited January 14, 2016 by DeMonkey

[Arkezuli]

There's a thin line between incentivizing and coercing.

 

A long time ago, DE crossed the line, spit on it and then set it on fire.

 

 

FTFY

[Tesseract7777]

Vulpine Mask, the new and singular stance for the Rapier weapon class, drops from Manic Bombards and Drekar Manic Bombards. Yeah, that's right, the same enemies that drop Vermilion Storm. Not only is this stance just as rare as Vermilion Storm when it comes to drop chance, they have made Vermilion Storm more rare in the process.

So just to reiterate, the only existing stance for this new weapon class is equally as difficult to obtain as one of the most infamously difficult mods to farm in the game. But don't worry! They have a bundle worth 220 Platinum available because they know people won't want to farm it!

Seriously though, this is rather infuriating. I understand that a lot of money went into Update 18 (with the new motion capture equipment and such) and they wanted to make the money back, but this is really pushing it.

Well the thing is, people have been asking for the stances to be sold with the weapons if the stance is really rare. This is admittedly something a lot of people have been asking for so I can't fault them for selling a bundle. In fact, more rare stances should be sold on market to undercut price gougers. 

 

But a lot of us just feel that that's still not quite enough, and that perhaps the drop chance should be higher than 0.01%. ; ) 

 

It's just a bit too much to be reasonable. They put it in the droptable with another rare stance too lol. So much lol. 

[TheOlright]

Yup, when I saw enemy, who drops it - I thought, that someones trolling at wiki's page, but no. I was so hyped about this rapier, but not now. There is two things in this game now, I never gonna farm - phaedra last pice (drops from archving defence) and this stance. And I never gonna buy it. I bought WAR sword bundle (800 plat, I guess?), since I knew, that this is gonna be just a matter of time until I got it, but now it's just look like money suckin. And even since it's not large amount of platimun, I just dont want to support this methods

Edited January 14, 2016 by TheOlright

[Trichouette]

The chance of a Drekar Manic Bombard dropping the mod is actually 0.01% (not an exaggeration), but it can be bought from the market for platinum. Isn't that the definition of pay to win, making actual game content a cash (let's be really honest) exclusive?

Are you really talking about "pay to win" on a PVE content ?

 

I do agree with this thread, not with you.

[Ognj]

Vulpine Mask, the new and singular stance for the Rapier weapon class, drops from Manic Bombards and Drekar Manic Bombards. Yeah, that's right. The same enemies that drop Vermilion Storm. Not only is this stance just as rare as Vermilion Storm when it comes to drop chance, they have made Vermilion Storm more rare in the process. 

So just to reiterate, the only existing stance for this new weapon class is equally as difficult to obtain as one of the most infamously difficult mods to farm in the game. But don't worry! They have a bundle worth 220 Platinum available because they know people won't want to farm it!

Seriously though, this is rather infuriating. I understand that a lot of money went into Update 18 (with the new motion capture equipment and such) and they wanted to make the money back, but this is really pushing it.

Yup, DE is doing this thing to push players more and more into buying stuff from market. The bundle exclusive skins and cosmetics, putting Nezha in sorties, War and Broken war crafting BS, adding a specific alert resource to stop people from grinding super fast and now insanely difficult mods to grind for that most of people wont see them, and chances are you will have better chance to get it from a transmute than to grind manics.

The recent direction that the game took in terms of f2p model is insane, yes I know old Banshee and Vauban were bad, but this is like that x2 since there are more and more items that are keep adding into the pile of 0.% of obtaining them. As a completely free player this is taxing heavily on my desire to even play the game more and more.

Oh and I just got now High noon stance from transmute after months and months, I have already leveled and sold my redeemer since I had 0 chance of getting the stance and to buy it from market for only 1 weapon, no ty.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Ognj

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Starting to agree.

 

There's always the argument of ''they need to get paid too'' but come on, 2 almost impossible to get stances that drop from enemies found in one node? That's verging on ridiculous.

At least the ever so infuriating Vengeful Revenant can be properly farmed through Moon Survival. Vermilion Storm and now Vulpine Mask are limited to enemies that only spawn two at a time during Tyl Regor's boss fight and occasionally a normal one spawns in Uranus Sabotage. Its reached ridiculous levels. 

[Nox174]

I can't white knight for DE this time, it's dang terrible.

[dmirtygorachyov]

Wow! I can't get the new content instantly, DE is the worst game developer in the world! Why isn't the new items delivered straight into my inventory? I actually have to play the game to earn things? ABSURD!

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

that better be in the console update ....

 

id take a delay for that .....

[Tesseract7777]

I can't white knight for DE this time, it's dang terrible.

[IceColdHawk]

Wow! I can't get the new content instantly, DE is the worst game developer in the world! Why isn't the new items delivered straight into my inventory? I actually have to play the game to earn things? ABSURD!

Start being realistic instead of talking nonsense. Have fun grinding for the stance.