I think Designers should have to do all 3 sorties every day

[ssh83]

When every player knows a change is bad but the designer doesn't... the designer is out of touch with the game.  They needs to get reacquainted with actually playing the game.

The people deciding the rarest drop rate in the void should be required to farm it in live with no cheats.  I can understand making Prime Access more lucrative but previous primes that can no longer be bought with prime access still has garbage drop rate!  You can't know what is a "fun" drop rate unless you actually try for it yourself.

Every DE designer should be required to do all 3 Sorties EVERY DAY (edit: with Public pug only).   Fixing OP warframe is good, but the designers need to have intimate knowledge of playing the game to actually fix the game properly.  When they don't, they will constantly over-nerf frames because they don't know how the game plays out practically.

[Brachion]

You know that most of DE does play the game regularly, right? They don't just cheat in whatever they want.

[Mr.Lube]

2 hours ago, Brachion said:

You know that most of DE does play the game regularly, right? They don't just cheat in whatever they want.

I find that really hard to believe. The only person on that couch I can confidently say is a regular Warframe player is Rebecca, and she has no influence when it comes to game design.

[hukurokuju5]

3 hours ago, ssh83 said:

When every player knows a change is bad but the designer doesn't... the designer is out of touch with the game.

THIS.

3 hours ago, ssh83 said:

Fixing OP warframe is good, but the designers need to have intimate knowledge of playing the game to actually fix the game properly

AND THIS

[PsychedelicSnake]

1 hour ago, Mr.Lube said:

I find that really hard to believe. The only person on that couch I can confidently say is a regular Warframe player is Rebecca, and she has no influence when it comes to game design.

I can confirm that the Devs do indeed play their game. Don't know if anyone will believe me, but it's up to you.

[Drasiel]

You're making a pretty biased statement there. Personally I don't think the recent changes are bad, if that is in fact what you are referring too.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Lube said:

I find that really hard to believe. The only person on that couch I can confidently say is a regular Warframe player is Rebecca, and she has no influence when it comes to game design.

you are incredibly wrong if you think Rebecca has no influence on game design. Last christmas/january (whenever they do the year in review stream with the "streamies") The other devs on the couch celebrated and acknowledged all the work with design and the community that Rebecca puts in.

Not to mention as far as dev's playing the game there is at the very least Glen who runs the casual carousel streams every weekend, Ps4@4 with drew, and Xbox1@1 with... Megan? I'm not sure, I've never watched xbox1@1. 

[hukurokuju5]

issue is probably company creative heirarchy.

I wouldn't know how it is at DE, but thats what I've gleaned from working at companies and pitching ideas to the deaf ears of the people with the last say.

Edited June 2, 2016 by hukurokuju5

[AM-Bunny]

18 minutes ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

I can confirm that the Devs do indeed play their game. Don't know if anyone will believe me, but it's up to you.

Yeah, I have Glen on my friends list and that guy plays all the time.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Well for the last few Dev streams we had DeScott playing undercover boss. Mag got a real overhaul due to his choice of a starting frame to get a better look at the New Player experience and playing in the general populace. Also modding is slated for change as well to some degree involving fusion cores only, as well as players being able to combine duplicates into new fusion cores, due to his participation in the trenches.

I get the sense the Devs play this game quite a bit,  but I'm far happier they try other games and get addicted to them as well and then subconsciously rip them off properly for the best UI mechanics and game play that made them say I want this in my game kit.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

They are not good players though and that's the issue. I'll just draw your attention to the Trinity blessing change and how they said on the stream that they "tested blessing in solo and it was fine".... Yeh well done DE, good testing there, we all only use Trinity for solo play too...

[Ethorin]

Meh, I like the change

 

it used to be that Trin was REALLY REALLY BORING for me, literally just hit 2 on an enemy, whack them, hit three, keep hitting two and three(sometimes REALLY REALLY FUN especially going full melee, most of the time just kind of tedious) watch bars of teammates, they go down at all, hit 4, hit 2 and three some more. Now when playing Trin I need to actually pay attention to where the F*** everyone is. Does wonders for my awareness.

[Mr.Lube]

14 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:

Yeah, I have Glen on my friends list and that guy plays all the time.

I'm mainly referring to the people on the majority of Devstreams, Scott and Sheldon. If Sheldon was a regular player there is no way he make the drops the way they are.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Drops are fine. It's a free-to-play model so newer stuff harder to get, older stuff is easier. Just recently got all the scimitar parts together but I doubt I can farm Xiphos in a reasonable manner at least until the next landing craft shows up. If you're in it for the long haul, it'll get easier eventually. What you really need to worry about is getting all the drops from events.

[Henji]

Dude get a grip...you seriously belive the Devs don't play their own game ? 

Their own Community manager plays the game regulary, they stream in xbox one, ps4 and PC evry single week and you realy say with a straight face they don't play their game ? I'm sorry but have some shame ! 

If you frustrated with Warframe taking so long in its update releases, take a breath, go play something else and come back with a clear head, belive me I know how the long development and toxicity in this community can put a toll on you, so take a break and come back with a rant that is actualy constructive.

[Djego27]

18 hours ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

I can confirm that the Devs do indeed play their game. Don't know if anyone will believe me, but it's up to you.

I don't, since if that would be true we would have probably a lot less broken enemy damage/armor scaling, cheap one hit kill game mechanics, Events that would not just one hit you if you actually play them without cheese and a lot better balance when it comes to weapons, frames and enemy design.

Take the sorti from today:

1: Mission Ember solo exterminate with energy reduction all right, no big deal.

2. Mission: Ember solo interception with Enemy physical damage reduction(again no big deal for Ember) and also the added physical damage(what is the most stupid thing DE ever came up with for NM, T4 and sortis, besides giving players god mode to compensate for this nonsense, since it stands in absolute no reasonable relation towards the normal EHP values frames actually have combined with her broken damage scaling mechanics). Result getting 1 hit killed 4 times by hyekka masters flame grenades till the end, because they will always hit and and deal more then 2k damage each. There was even a question if changes for them are necessary for sorti in the 18.13.2 thread for crying out loud it should be super obvious that they are more bullet sponges then bombards\heavy gunners and the crappy scaling mechanic that should have changed years ago makes a "don't stand in the fire" mechanic(what is all well and good in lower level content) into a random "press the revive button, no telegraphs, no avoidance, no nothing" mechanic.

3. Mission: Keyla Boss, after 5 minutes I did give up with frost, even with 1 CP and Avalanche you barley do any damage because of the ridiculous broken armor scaling. All right lets do what DE suggests to correctly deal with her broken design -> completely bypass it. To the 100% armor ignore trinity. Hoary for 8k+ single volley homing missiles that nearly kill a Link+Blessing trintiy with a vitality in a single hit(that is over 20 times more HP than a normal frame without defensive mods actually has), missile salvos that kill your kubrow every single time in the wheel shooting sections(I had to abandon the mission and restart it with a sentinel since I hardly could shoot the wheels between reviving my kubrow ever 15s).

Nobody can say with a straight face that anybody at DE tested her content(outside of her low level stuff) and does not figure out how bad it actually is.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Djego27

[Zachatoo]

If you've been watching recent devstreams (or PAX East) you'll notice that Scott has come up with a list of things he wants to work on to make Warframe better, one of which is enemy scaling. Have patience, enemy scaling is a more complicated problem than it may seem. We don't want it stupid easy for vets but we also want it playable for new players. 

[Djego27]

1 hour ago, Zachatoo said:

If you've been watching recent devstreams (or PAX East) you'll notice that Scott has come up with a list of things he wants to work on to make Warframe better, one of which is enemy scaling. Have patience, enemy scaling is a more complicated problem than it may seem. We don't want it stupid easy for vets but we also want it playable for new players. 

 

I play the game since over 1.5 years:

Napalms\Bombards, absolute broken at high levels with the one shot ability, no fixes.

Nullifiers are absolute broken(not what you think) because her weapon actually will one hit you at higher levels, not telegraphed, not interruptible at all with CC before her bubble is down and since her bubble has a guaranteed life time of 3s very common and incredible broken one hit mechanic that adds absolute nothing to the game and player skill outside completely avoiding LoS to them has zero impact.

Scorch ospray bomb spam till your hole screen is full of this. Fixed once for lower levels, still absolute broken in Sortis with overlapping fields and the damage scaling mechanic(that should not be applied at all to any kind of AOE stuff, give it a damage that matters like 300 and don't scale it ever). They have also broken hit boxes, what means even if you jump over them, you sometimes just get hit(what means you die instantly in sorti).

Grenier aim botting host\solo players with 100% accuracy over the hole map. Fixed in a way that you still got aim botted over the hole map(the fix did absolutely nothing), halve a year later accentually fixed with parkur 2.0. Ballistas are still like they where back then, if you host\solo they have a guaranteed hit, no impacted by movement or anything.

Remember Archwing units fire next to invisible missiles at you that instantly kill you at any level? That was in the game for over 1.5 years and did mean you had to press 2 ever 5 seconds with a Odonata for melee or you just die out of the blue instantly. The shield changes are in the game since over halve a year without any kind of fix, 100% flat damage reduction from the front(guess what direction they face if you solo archwing?) with guns if you don't have AOE damage or punch through and a electric shock that kills levelling arch wings in 1-2 hits if you actually melee them.

Healer grappling hook that has not to connect to the player at all to count as hit. Annoying mechanic at low levels? Try high levels and get hit for 600-1000 damage(it can actually proc bleed as well, killing you quicker then you can pop a HP restore at high levels), with extra shield ignore since toxic healers are so common at high levels that they have a 100% uptime on that. The coding is even so primitive that it is just the first thing they do after spawning, you can see this clearly when multiply spawn and do the hook simultaneous as her first action with a player in range. Since you have to kill like 20 per minute at higher levels, guess what 20 new spawn and every single one gets a free grappling attack after spawning every single minute.

Toxic healers, because they really should hit everybody in a AOE for thousands of damage and instantly kill you at higher levels in halve a second. Because adding shield ignore and extra damage against your HP for any unit around them is seriously not enught.

Brusas, incredible broken design during the event(one hitting you at L100 without perma CCing them in halve a second) after several nerfs they still one hit you every single time in sorti. If the idea is to have a disrupting unit with CC, nullifier field or hook, don't add it into your absolute broken damage scaling that gives them thousands of damage at high levels with at the same time being the biggest bullet sponges of the hole faction.

Do you remember healer auras affect other healers? I do and it was so much fun when the new loka spawn had 15 times more EHP then any other syndicate faction(not only 90% damage reduction, no incoming damage will also heal all the other units to 150%) and you could not play infested at high levels without radiation status weapons at all. While 90% damage resistance does not matter at all at low levels they turn Infested into absolute bullet sponges at high levels, if the healer happens to be around the corner and you can't get to him because you have 20 infested that one hit you and have a 200k+ effective HP each in front of you. Adding that nonsense to the void on top of armor was just plain ridiculous and the reason why I never play solo void survival 1h+ without a radiation status weapon.

Do you remember Infested moas just aim botted and instantly killed you? It was so bad that after 2 months DE finally removed the direct projectile from the tar moas(that did radiation for massive extra damage for christs sake). The tar HP scaling is another thing what is in the game since months(it never was there from the start) and prevents you to clear the map of it at high levels, what means the visual effect lets you see nothing what is behind and you can't move around at all(while tons of melee units rushing towards you) when halve of the map is covered in tar.

Do you remember getting one hit killed by hyekka at L12? I do because they did hit 50 times harder then intended by her broken attack animation. Rollers in the 1000 paper cut event actually also had that bug(fortunately the normal ones don't) hitting you for over 5000 damage in halve a second at L40.

Non of this stuff is hard to spot if you actually play the game, it adds zero challenge and only ends up as broken mechanic that one hits you for no good reason at all and every time DE adds new units they are incredible broken by the shear lack of any reasonable play testing.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2016 by Djego27

[Goodwill]

And I'm sure you do? Sorry to burst your bubble, but what do you want the devs to do? They "play" the game when they can, but their job is to "develop" the game. That's why they have feedback threads and listen to the community to fill in the caps that they don't have the time to cover.

Also, if you are farming the same void mission over and over for a prime part to the extent you are complaining about it, then I think you are doing it wrong. I farm for about a day and if I don't have what I want, I sell what I farmed and then buy what I want from another player. I honestly think that the ability to trade with plat was their solution to the grind and RNG. It allows players who are impatient a chance to get the item with very minimal effort.

Overall, the developers have a very, very intimate knowledge of their game. And it's for that very reason, they need and ask for player feedback and input. Because they need to get the opinions of people who don't know everything. Who don't know all the game mechanics and who haven't practiced every fraction of the game for the past 2+ years. Have you ever made or even worked on a game before? Because if you have, you'd know what I mean.

 

 

[taiiat]

are you surprised that the new thing, meaning the new money, is the least likely item to be obtained from relevant Missions?
if you are, have you played Video Games before? do you know how businesses make money?

to me, on some topics, it just sounds like kids on the internet that are out of touch with everything else themselves.
while on other topics everyone may very well agree on something but there's bigger fish to fry first.

21 hours ago, Mr.Lube said:

I find that really hard to believe.

it's not the job of Digital Extremes to take selfies for you and post them on s...tergram so that you can see what they're doing in their private life.

Edited June 2, 2016 by taiiat

[notlamprey]

I think people need to be open to the idea that the developers experience playing their own game entirely differently than we do.

Even when they do play, the things they notice and feel like taking notes on will tend to be miles apart from what the players notice. I think the actual problem sits somewhere closer to one of perspective, and we really can't do anything about that other than to keep making them aware of the things that give us heartburn.

 

 

[shadrad]

"Well, I don't like this, so clearly something must be wrong with the Developers, because there's no way my perspective is biased and based on faulty sampling techniques."

 

[Voltage]

I play Battleborn on PC and I FREQUENTLY find Gearbox Devs playing (they have special title as gearbox staff). When I play with this people, they are decent, and they see what is going on. DE doesn't join pug games, they play with their team. That doesn't work. DE needs to do a Recruit Chat LoR NM after this rework and STREAM IT. Playing "Rebecca and Megan" every stream doesn't show they actually see what's going on. Only DE Scott has shown this.

[Voltage]

13 hours ago, Zilchy said:

They are not good players though and that's the issue. I'll just draw your attention to the Trinity blessing change and how they said on the stream that they "tested blessing in solo and it was fine".... Yeh well done DE, good testing there, we all only use Trinity for solo play too...

I LOLed at that. That's common knowledge. It is like saying "yep we never found affinity amp in the tax alerts rotations because we played 1 run and didn't get one"

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 hours ago, Goodwill said:

Overall, the developers have a very, very intimate knowledge of their game. And it's for that very reason, they need and ask for player feedback and input. Because they need to get the opinions of people who don't know everything. Who don't know all the game mechanics and who haven't practiced every fraction of the game for the past 2+ years. Have you ever made or even worked on a game before? Because if you have, you'd know what I mean.

 

 

They received pages of pages of feedback regarding the ideas for the new passives and guess what? They released every passive unchanged from their original statement, including Oberon's incredibly rubbish passive. Asking for feedback only works if you take it onboard, otherwise it's just massively disrespectful. DE are just too proud for the game's own good.

[Magneu]

"Game designers everywhere are doing this one thing; click to see how crazy simple it is!"

Click-baity to the extreme.