[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!

[Xebov]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

But the thing with riven mods is... They require heavy farming against RNG (getting them for sorties, then getting a decent riven weapon choice , then getting decent mods trough numerous rerolls). It's a lot of time and effort to actually get a good roll on a Riven Mod, too much effort for trash tier weapons... This means there's Riven for "good" weapons and riven for "bad" weapons. While someone can luck out and get an awesome roll for a bad weapon ,making it useful... The most common scenario is people ignoring trash Riven mods and trying to get Riven for their best weapons... The fact there's 15 Riven slots also promotes this kind of mindeset. Why spend Kuva on maxing mods for bad guns, especialyl when you'll discard said mods eventually to make room for Riven for primaries you actually use.

Thats the exact issue im seeing. Riven Mods are to hard to obtain, to expansive to reroll and to hard to get statcombinations that are usefull. The cap itself will just force players to stick with a couple of guns and stop using new ones they dont have riven mods for because otehr with riven mods are supperior.

[MokutoBunshi]

O yeah, gotta supply the thread with appropriate pics:

 

 

I obviously own none of these...have fun!

 

]\'[

[CorrinAvatan]

Just saw someone post a mod, that had -158% damage.

That riven mod, in order to be useful, HAS to be cycled.  Yet, that conflicts with the idea that you want to discourage rolling for better stats.

 

Although props to the programmers if something like that actually HEALS what you shoot at.

[Insizer]

I personally like the Riven mods in concept. They do a hell of a lot for some weapons, hell my attica riven is a massive QoL mod that reduces recoil and increases flight speed (both by like 50%) its amazing. But I do believe that the system has its issues. I'm glad to the meta weapons will be getting a nerf to their Rivens.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

You say that riven mods are supposed to make less used weapons more competitive and usable... But what I see is a category of mod that's mostly suited to push already top tier gear even higher... In effect making the difference between top tier and trash tier even more apparent... And pushing "mastery fodder" even further down the gutter...

Because let's face it, once you have your shiny + 150% Crit Chance + 150% Crit Multiplier +100% Damage Riven mod for one top tier weapon (Tonkor, Simulor, Tigris, Soma), you just made 98% of the other primaries dramatically inferior choices. How can a weapon for which you don't own a riven mod for even compete with these monsters now ? Why would you use said weapons ? How is it going to feel going from a six forma tonkor with an OP Riven mod to leveling a no forma, no catalyst newly released primary for which you don't own the riven mod ?

Sure, when you get your first Riven mod, and it's for a weapon you haven't used for months, maybe you'll use said weapon shortly to try the probably badly rolled mod.. But are you really going to spend tons of Kuva to reroll a Riven for a mastery fodder gun ? Are you going to keep using said gun once you finally get that Tonkor op mod or whatever ? Probably not ! Likewise, since you don't choose which gun you get a riven mod for , this means , in a sense, RNG (or plat if you buy them) dictates which weapon you'll be allowed to use... Removing player choice in a sense.

Before Riven mods, mastery fodder weapons had a small chance of being used by veterans, if they enjoyed the mechanics behind them. A vet would spend a couple of hours putting formas on said weapon, and would use it on non-endgame , meta requiring scenarios...

But the thing with riven mods is... They require heavy farming against RNG (getting them for sorties, then getting a decent riven weapon choice , then getting decent mods trough numerous rerolls). It's a lot of time and effort to actually get a good roll on a Riven Mod, too much effort for trash tier weapons... This means there's Riven for "good" weapons and riven for "bad" weapons. While someone can luck out and get an awesome roll for a bad weapon ,making it useful... The most common scenario is people ignoring trash Riven mods and trying to get Riven for their best weapons... The fact there's 15 Riven slots also promotes this kind of mindeset. Why spend Kuva on maxing mods for bad guns, especialyl when you'll discard said mods eventually to make room for Riven for primaries you actually use.

In the end, I feel like a real solution would have been to take a look at each existing weapon individually, and offer a non-random Riven mod that "fixed" most of their glaring issues. Let's say a weapon had a long reload and low crit chance, you fix it with a Riven mod... That would have made sense and would have allowed even low MR trash tier weapons to be competitive... Then again, if you make this balancing effort already, might as well rebalance all weapons in the game so that mastery fodder tier doesn't exist...

I guess my main issue about this is that you guys have been blabbering about for months about damage 3.0, rebalancing stuff, removing mandatory mods and stuff like multistrike, yet now you released the most imbalanced mods in the history of the game with no regards to any sort of balance whatsoever... This widens the gap between weapons, widens the gap between new player and veterans, makes a handful of weapons in one's arsenal much better than the rest and imho only adds more grind to an already grind intensive game. I feel that the joy of making you favorite weapon even more OP pales compared to having the other 99% of your arsenal feel worse by comparaison because you don't own perfectly rolled riven for theose guns, and I feel even less compelled to build mastery fodder to their full potential now that it requires numerous layer of RNG and countless more effort than in the past.

I gues the TLRD version is this - In a game with hundreds of weapons you're supposed to use, why go from an universal mod setup allowing you to use any mod on any weapon to a restrictive system where you can only make a handful of weapons good and outclasse the rest of your arsenal.

Probably the best feedback and summary in this  thread so far.

+100

Really worried about these mods and hope they are put on the back burner till a proper balance and damage 3.0 update before hitting consoles.

Edited November 16, 2016 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[taiiat]

might as well point out here that regardless of intention, the limitation of number of Riven Mods one can have will force Players to choose between keeping the Meta stuff, or keeping what's cool and different.

the only way you can encourage Players to be creative with their nonMeta Equipment is by letting them have their cake and eat it too.
it is long known that if you make a Player choose between these two sides, that the fun side almost always loses. it's just how it works.
so again, the only way to encourage Players to play with fun things is to not force them to only play with goofy fun things.

 

and ofcourse, because you can get the same bonuses on already Overpowered Equipment as you can disregarded Equipment - it doesn't really change the relative scene at all, as disregarded Equipment is still the same amount inferior to the Overpowered Equipment.
nothing short of actually balancing Equipment will solve this.

 

also i am very in support of the idea of being able to Transmute 4 Riven Mods into a guaranteed fresh 5th one. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by taiiat

[Perekta]

On 11/14/2016 at 3:04 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

 

This doesn't work if you set the system to give purely random stats. Some of the rolls are literally unusable either due to bonuses irrelevant to the weapon, or penalties so severe that your weapon would cease to do damage. The system punishes you just for trying to fight against its awful RNG and get something you can actually use. I'm ok with a little RNG to mix things up but this is simply too severe. This system needs to run on an algorithm, not a slot machine.

[Volinus7]

Here's my free consultation for your mess... 

First solution. Remove all riven mods and act like this farce never happened. 

Second solution. 

Give riven mod its own separated slot and remove its capacity requirement. 

Use customizable re-roll mechanics and progressive chance similar to SDGO custom capsule.

Unable to trade

[chaotea]

15 hours ago, Vethalon said:

I thought and still think that paying that much plat for a completely new gameplay element is a really bad Idea, sorry.

No one in their right mind should pay more than 100p on a Riven right now.

And I have seen Rivens beeing traded for 1500p, I mean really?!

Kinda like the Orvius parts beeing traded for 20p and more on release date, before people noticed, that almost every Guardian drops a part.

This game has always been and still is in "Beta" a lot of things get changed, is it really wise to trade the equivalent of tens of $/€ for something that's highly random and got just released?

 

My recomendation to DE would be, next time you release something like that, make it non-tradable in the beginning, that way you will get a lot less angry people.

 

Yea, making new elements to the game non-tradable would be a good idea.

[Zaifarh]

I don't know that is there someone posted this idea? So, I present [DE] adding "Locked Stat" function to the re-roll system!

The concept is, you can choose and lock the only one stat(not its percentage) you really need by using some of extra cost(1k Kuvas or 100k credits)to keep the prefix or suffix is still there; and another stats else will be random as usual.

With this function, you don't have to let everything depends on luck and pray to God every times you re-roll. I understand [DE]'s point about something unique and give more choices for weapons. But honestly, you know the fact that it's not matter how many stat types you have. There are the stats almost people need such as +dmg, +crit chance, +crit dmg, etc. This mean the thing that makes Riven mods are unique, is not their stat type but percentage. And it's not fair for people who don't have times to farm Kuva or make multiple account to get Riven mods. And the rich can buy whatever they want, "money is power" "and everyone need the best for themselves", this is Human's nature.

In conclusion, the "Locked Stat" function is just not give benefit to everyone, it's also help to reduce the risk about raging people who don't have much time to farm Kuva(for me, farming Kuva over and over again is annoying and boring). Then, using their Kuva tore-roll and get the new junk stats Riven mods quitting Warframe. Moreover, this will give more value to Kuva if it is used for this function.

P.S. This is just my opinion. So, I hope [DE] will see my post and consider it. If you guys like my idea, please quote my post and draw attentions from [DE] to see what we do really need. Thank you everyone and have good days.

[WhyNotBro]

I guess better if you would use your "the least used weapons list" and from the depth to top of this list start making riven mods.

Good weapons are good already, you know. So, perhaps, instead of making already badass weapon more and more op, we can upgrade some interesting for us (but not beeing used coz of zero damage) weapons? Cool boys can continue beeing cool with tonkors and other crap, meanwhile bored veterans can have some fun with can-not-touch-this-coz-it-allowes-you-to-play-only-on-Earth old weps.

I like the idea of Riven, really. This is a band aid, yeah. Whatever. For crap weps these mods are the second chance.

[Dr.Evergreen]

--NERF BOMBARDS COMING SOON™--

I wish to express my condolences to those who bought overpowered Rivens with thousands of plats.

At least you shouldn't make Riven mods tradable DE.

Just buff some older weapons and remove Riven mods.

you said you know which weapon is unused, then just BUFF them. why don't you do that?

Do you really think Rivens can revive the old n' dead guns?

and do you really think all the Tenno can enjoy this remorseless heavy RNG-based gamble?

NO. NOOOOOOOO. Eventually we just get some crappy purple poops for our tremendous grind,

and weapons like Soma and Tonkor as you said will have worse mods, totally no need to get.

Balance on pure luck. this makes me salty.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Chantepleur

[Lindsrhyl]

The way i see it now is an utterly powerful way to add bonus characteristics to your weapons, without "wasting" a mod slot (for example by not having to discard your primed-bane-of-victim in order to increase your overkill chance). Broken? Hell yeah. Does it makes bad weapons as good as meta ones? Not even close. +150 crit chance + 150 multishot on a prisma dex kraken wraith? Cool stats, but that weapon will never see any map but akkad.

So far only already broken weapons find a use to that. Why? Because multiplying by two the damage of an already DEAC cleaning low tier weapon will never make it appealing as the 9000+ damage tonkor.

 

But our oracle spoke, and she said DE heard our whines... those mods are going to be tweaked!

What now? Well... i bet ten rubedos that the situation will be the exact opposite. And riven mods for op weapons will be useless. They will be be nothing but fancy purple nightmare mods, when your builds already use this kind of tools.

Now don't get me wrong... i love purple.

What is coming is a bunch of mods that will be a mix of two concepts: nightmare mods, which are op, and corrupted mods, which forces you to make compromises. Until now those compromises have been possible since solutions exist. But now since everything is rng based there are high chances that you get weird stuff, unreliable stuff... riven mods for top tier weapons will simply not be worth it anymore, better use your already battle proven setup.

Basically the plat sink for op weapons' op mods will turn into a mild interest into op mods for lower tier weapons, by people who already used said weapons.

No change in weapon usage, just frustration from people who wasted money in something obviously too beautiful to be true. And if DE doesnt do anything? Same thing but reversed: still no weapon changes, but frustration from lower tier weapon users.

 

To conclude this: those mods really look nice, i mean the design is cool af with the shatters and the changing pictures.

 

Whatever you chose, good luck DE. My pokecodex is ready for shineys.

Semi off topic: sold riven mods with multishot (amprex lol)... when the multishot "rework" will come (amprex, s gammacor, oh joy), rivers of tears and kuva will flow.

[Awazx]

All this for what? We can easily overcome 99% of the star map are a Lato moded. While you are wasting your time with new badly thought out functions, you obviate the big problems: our warframes are too strong, 99% of the enemies are too weak, the star map offers almost no challenge, 70% of the weapons are much worse that the remaining 30%, the mod system requires a few configurations ( "mandatory" mods).

And I could continue.

You try desperately to "revitalize" the game without solving the basic problems that have existed for years.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Awazx

[(XBOX)ax1L3]

5 hours ago, Insizer said:

I personally like the Riven mods in concept. They do a hell of a lot for some weapons, hell my attica riven is a massive QoL mod that reduces recoil and increases flight speed (both by like 50%) its amazing. But I do believe that the system has its issues. I'm glad to the meta weapons will be getting a nerf to their Rivens.

i find it sad that everyone cares so much what everyone else has got and does instead of being happy and have fun with what you got...

[(PSN)Silverback73]

We need to have a discussion on how this system is designed to:

1. Recruit new, paying players

2. Retain veteran, paying players

3. Generate revenue while still improving the Wsrframe experience.

If everyone ignores the economic realities of the business model, then this is primarily a Vent Prime thread.

I hope discussing financial success is something Steve and DE are open to and isn't VERBOTEN!

[Xebov]

5 hours ago, CorrinAvatan said:

Just saw someone post a mod, that had -158% damage.

That riven mod, in order to be useful, HAS to be cycled.  Yet, that conflicts with the idea that you want to discourage rolling for better stats.

Had a bow mod yesterday with +1x% rof, +8% cold and -14% dmg base. Wich would result in half the damage and double the ammo consumtion.

[Virsalus]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)ax1L3 said:

i find it sad that everyone cares so much what everyone else has got and does instead of being happy and have fun with what you got...

That is what a system like this encourages. And you wouldn't be happy about getting a dung pie from the same lottery someone else is getting a bar of gold from.

[(XBOX)ax1L3]

5 minutes ago, Virsalus said:

That is what a system like this encourages. And you wouldn't be happy about getting a dung pie from the same lottery someone else is getting a bar of gold from.

its rng its random thats the whole fun of it .. its just like life you get your good stuff and the bad

Edited November 16, 2016 by (XB1)ax1L3

[Virsalus]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ax1L3 said:

its rng its random thats the whole fun of it .. its just like life you get your good stuff and the bad

If I wanted life, I wouldn't be playing a game.

[(XBOX)ax1L3]

Just now, Virsalus said:

If I wanted life, I wouldn't be playing a game.

well play some thing that lets you pick how every thing plays out

[Virsalus]

1 minute ago, (XB1)ax1L3 said:

well play some thing that lets you pick how every thing plays out

Or maybe you should just go to the casino where you can gamble all day long to your heart's content.

[PanicPrime]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)ax1L3 said:

well play some thing that lets you pick how every thing plays out

In other words, "If you don't like it, go away"

Way to go shutting down any sensible dialogue between the community on what they want to see going forward.

[VonDodo]

But actually the idea of changing them in fixed stats would be good.

For example a soma would benefit from a replacement of one of its core mods like "serration" in conjuction with faster reload or bigger magazine, but without letting it be used in conjunction with original mod.

That would make it not OP but desirable.

While other Underpowered weapons would get stronger buff (again NON RNG).

[(XBOX)ax1L3]

1 minute ago, Virsalus said:

Or maybe you should just go to the casino where you can gamble all day long to your heart's content.

well it could be more fun then hearing people cry .. cos there not getting what they want... not trying to be mean i say it how i see it