Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

DE has said they want Umbra to be special and they don't want to spoil anything or give any "nuggets" because it might be second dream level in information

 

They've said a lot of things.

[SilentMobius]

19 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

Who would sacrifice a frame they can't get again 

Quests will hopefully be replayable in the future 

 

Wuo would sell a frame that they can't get again? Support tickets say: plenty of people.

Quest replayability is something DE want but have had large problems implementing, which means it's hard, which means it has a high dev cost, which means it's unlikely.

Also DE have said that they don't want quest replayability to result in being able to re-acquire the rewards, I double that you say that if giving up Warframes was on their mind.

Edited January 7, 2018 by SilentMobius

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

As long as he is not just a reskin of Excalibur Prime aka a reskin of a reskin, I am fine.

Otherwise, Umbras will suck big time because either they or the Primes will be mastery fodder.

Granted, not all frames will get Umbraed as per what DE said.

[Draugurr]

21 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

Who would sacrifice a frame they can't get again 

Quests will hopefully be replayable in the future 

 

I would and i'm willing to bet loads of people are. 

[-Ringed-Umbra-]

14 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I think the issue isn't really.. (...)

 

True words but, even if umbras are not the same or are the same or even powerful than, they are still pointless then.. Unless there is something new to Umbra.. so even tho they are one of those option, if there is something that makes Umbra different as something like a place where only umbras can penetrate, then that could remove the pointless of Umbra.. All I hope is that they are not pointless.

7 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

They've said a lot of things.

 

They don't want to spoil it not only because they want umbra to be new and special, but because there was so many data mining on umbra related stuff.

As well as Umbra supposed to be after wukong in a time period of 30 days after China release, but their China stuff did not let em, The war within supposed to have umbra, it didn't happen, people somehow made Excal umbra playable, DE got mad about it and it got delayed again.

Now wanna make Umbra special? link em with the way how Lotus vanished with Ballas.. if Umbra is somehow linked with Lotus gone, then believe me, this will be something very special.

Edited January 7, 2018 by -Ringed-Umbra-

[Lyravain]

On 6/1/2018 at 7:31 PM, KelsierSurvivor said:

We could make Chroma Umbra have his first ability trashed, (No one really uses it anyway) and instead replaced with something like quiver for Ivara or Vauban's minelayer. For Chroma though, it would switch between his four elements. This is something that I am sure everyone would want. I mean, Chroma is already an amazing frame, but I really just want this to be a thing. I'm sure alot of us do. He seems very limited in his potential. I have never met a Chroma main once in-game or out, just people that use him for certain tasks like Eidolon hunting/capping, certain types of missions like defense or interception, but I have never, not once, met someone who mains him. I think that if he could switch between his elements, this might happen. Maybe make his passive ability something like based on which element he is using, the elemental caster frame would gain some kind of buff like energy regen. For example, Chroma has ice active. If there is a Frost in the squad, Frost will regenerate energy or gain some kind of immunity (To cold damage probably). If there is an Ember and Chroma has fire equipped, Ember will regenerate energy or gain some kind of immunity. (To heat damage, probably.) 

What do you guys think of this? I think that all of the elemental caster frames need to get Umbra variants. They have so much potential... (The elemental caster frames are my personal favorites. Except Chroma. I've never really liked his kit much. I think that this ability change could make it alot better.)

Please don't turn this into a 'please rework Chroma' event. My intention for Umbras isn't to rework a frame so that it becomes usable. It's to give a different spin to what the frame already IS. Not a 'rework', but a 'coexistence'. If what I suggested as possible 'Excalibur Umbra' abilities came to be, that wouldn't replace or remove or render the REGULAR Excalibur useless. They would simply both be there, different spins to the same idea. You'd use one, I'd use another.

[KelsierSurvivor]

41 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

Please don't turn this into a 'please rework Chroma' event. My intention for Umbras isn't to rework a frame so that it becomes usable. It's to give a different spin to what the frame already IS. Not a 'rework', but a 'coexistence'. If what I suggested as possible 'Excalibur Umbra' abilities came to be, that wouldn't replace or remove or render the REGULAR Excalibur useless. They would simply both be there, different spins to the same idea. You'd use one, I'd use another.

Ah, I didn't realize how much it seemed like I was doing that. Lol. I'm sorry if it came off that way, but I was mainly trying to say that Chroma Umbra could be a nice counterpart. 

Side note: Maybe when there is an Umbra in a mission with it's prime variant it would have some sort of special effect? That would be cool... Something to help make them different, like you said. Maybe their abilities could have some sort of synergy? I'll use your excalibur example.

Excalibur would use Radial Blind. If Umbra were to use his two (let's call it "Eclipse" or something like that (The Umbra of a shadow is darkest in an eclipse while at the center)) while Radial Blind is affecting units, Umbra could have some sort of effect like Ash's current bladestorm where he jumps between enemies that are affected by Radial Blind. Unlike Ash, however, he would be invisible and invulnerable. 

Maybe something like this could work? Umbra's are dark versions of Primes, so why not make the light and the dark work together to make a nice picture?

[Eldnacpeek]

6 hours ago, -Ringed-Umbra- said:

As well as Umbra supposed to be after wukong in a time period of 30 days after China release, but their China stuff did not let em

That was never stated.

6 hours ago, -Ringed-Umbra- said:

The war within supposed to have umbra, it didn't happen

It was an incredibly early script clearly trying to squeeze him in where he didn't fit.

6 hours ago, -Ringed-Umbra- said:

people somehow made Excal umbra playable, DE got mad about it and it got delayed again.

There was 0 indication from DE that he got delayed because those two specific players managed to tamper with files and acquire him. That idea was false from the beginning, the only thing that was ever written about that incident was that both players had it removed from their inventory and were revoked access to the game.

Edited January 7, 2018 by LazerSkink

[Lyravain]

38 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Ah, I didn't realize how much it seemed like I was doing that. Lol. I'm sorry if it came off that way, but I was mainly trying to say that Chroma Umbra could be a nice counterpart. 

Side note: Maybe when there is an Umbra in a mission with it's prime variant it would have some sort of special effect? That would be cool... Something to help make them different, like you said. Maybe their abilities could have some sort of synergy? I'll use your excalibur example.

Excalibur would use Radial Blind. If Umbra were to use his two (let's call it "Eclipse" or something like that (The Umbra of a shadow is darkest in an eclipse while at the center)) while Radial Blind is affecting units, Umbra could have some sort of effect like Ash's current bladestorm where he jumps between enemies that are affected by Radial Blind. Unlike Ash, however, he would be invisible and invulnerable. 

Maybe something like this could work? Umbra's are dark versions of Primes, so why not make the light and the dark work together to make a nice picture?

Chroma reworked would be fun -and an Umbra variant of it would also be fun. Unfortunately, we have rather limited pull with DE. All I can say is that I hope Umbra is more than a reskin or rework. Warframe has the potential for a LOT of flexibility with what the developers do. At best we can hope to give the spark that lights up a brainstorming session.

Some synergy between frames is always appreciated -however lately DE has gone way past 'suggesting' synergy and into 'enforcing' synergy. I point to Saryn's rework. A rework that I actually DO enjoy as she's far more enjoyable than her old 'press 4 everything melts' state, but at times her abilities feel... incomplete... when standalone. So; while I would enjoy some synergy, the realist in me is crossing his fingers hoping they don't go overboard with it.

[-Ringed-Umbra-]

24 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

That was never stated.

Edit: Nvm, you mean the "but their China stuff did not let em "
 

Well still, it was delayed by a reason.. and it kept been delayed until now.

Still it does not meant they are not interested, things can be dalyed by multiple reasons, if they don't want to tell the specifics they won't, and when they are not interested so much on a subject they would tell us and not just hide it.

DE has been alot transparent, if they are not with Umbra then there is a reason besides "not interested".

Edited January 7, 2018 by -Ringed-Umbra-

[Vlada91]

Maybe we can have more options for their powers and costumes them like you have more options to costumes frames. Or maybe power's cane have different visual effects because they look more like shadow of that evil looking powers. Or we have same powers but we can change effects like if ember umbra when use some power it dont have to bee fire if you change it can look the same but not visually,because for example you choose to be electric and not fire. Or excal dash live toxic,fire or ice trail when you strike the enemies. They are dark frame masters and they know how to improve they abilities and combine with damage style that they like 2 use in battle. Maybe because of that they will have different names. We know him like excal umbra but in the game maybe he is lord umbra....and so on and so on 🤔 or maybe we can have just 4 or 5 umbras in the game a the same time. And we can combine they're powers and create something that we like to have on that specific umbra frame...

Edited January 7, 2018 by Vlada91

[(PSN)Ch1b1N1njaGam1ng]

I personally think they should be mirrors of their original/prime counterparts. As well as inverted abilities

 

Excalibur Umbra: Stealth

Trinity Umbra: Damage

Ember Umbra: Support 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I am actually a little curious to how this will play out storywise to the China version.

As far as I am aware and have checked, based on videos, they have the exact same build as us with just the difference in language and this means when Excalibur Umbra is released to us in a quest, wouldn't their non-Founders get Excalibur Umbra? (Keep in mind that Excalibur Umbra Prime which looks the same as our Excalibur Umbra is their version of Excalibur Prime)

If DE plans to exclude this quest for China build so their non-Founders do not get a carbon copy of their Excalibur Umbra Prime, then the story for this quest must be something that is not critical to the overall plot.

If DE plans to include the quest for the China Build, they can't just give the same reward, in other words, there is actually a small possibility that there is already another Umbra in design but we may or may not get him/her in the same quest. This could mean Chinaframe will have prior access to that other Umbra and we will have another Umbra to look forward to. (Can't deny that this Umbra hype train is somewhat good for player retention and community interest)

Considering we have prior access to all Primes from the China build, it is not impossible to think that an arrangement has been made to give them prior access to Umbras and this symbiotic hype relation will bring up the hype on both sides. (We hype for Umbras, Chinaframe players hype for Primes)

Edited January 8, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[KelsierSurvivor]

19 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

-snip-

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the China version of warframe get canceled? I did some reading a while back and discovered that umbra was a near exact equivalent of prime in the world build. They had a similar contract saying they couldn't release it in game or to the international build. The China build was shut down since DE wasn't making enough money off of it and they had a very small playerbase. Since it was shut down, the contract was therefor invalid with nothing to tie it to. Since the contract was cancelled, DE could bring Umbra to the international build. It's taking a while since they want his arrival to be special. 

Again, I could be wrong. This was an article on the Internet and you shouldn't believe everything you read. So if I am wrong, please tell me! 

[Eldnacpeek]

3 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the China version of warframe get canceled?

 

Console Chinaframe has been discontinued, PC remains running.

http://wf.changyou.com/

Edited January 8, 2018 by LazerSkink

[KelsierSurvivor]

15 minutes ago, LazerSkink said:

 

Console Chinaframe has been discontinued, PC remains running.

http://wf.changyou.com/

Ah, thank you! This clears up a lot. 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

6 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the China version of warframe get canceled? I did some reading a while back and discovered that umbra was a near exact equivalent of prime in the world build. They had a similar contract saying they couldn't release it in game or to the international build. The China build was shut down since DE wasn't making enough money off of it and they had a very small playerbase. Since it was shut down, the contract was therefor invalid with nothing to tie it to. Since the contract was cancelled, DE could bring Umbra to the international build. It's taking a while since they want his arrival to be special. 

Again, I could be wrong. This was an article on the Internet and you shouldn't believe everything you read. So if I am wrong, please tell me! 

 

6 hours ago, LazerSkink said:

 

Console Chinaframe has been discontinued, PC remains running.

http://wf.changyou.com/

Yeah, it's exactly as LazerSkink said.

I saw a video of some chinese guy playing plague star on Chinaframe recently so the PC version is definitely still there.

I think this is one angle we can look at the whole issue to speculate on The Sacrifice as well.

Since Excalibur Umbra looks visually same as Excalibur Umbra Prime, the quest which if Chinaframe also gets can't possibly give Excalibur Umbra because to the Chinese Founders, that's the same as giving out Excalibur Umbra Prime but dropping "圣装".

Therefore, they must either be not allowed to do the quest which either means the lore from that quest won't matter (which is unlikely) or allowed to do the quest but given a different reward (which I think is more likely).

Since they can't possibly make a quest that mentions or gives an Umbra without the reward being an Umbra and since it can't be visual clone of Excalibur Umbra Prime for the chinese non-Founders, they will either receive another Umbra which we will get later or receive Umbra related gear.

Of course, there's also a possibility that we get 2 rewards (a frame and a weapon) while they get 1 (a weapon).

Edited January 8, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

On 06/01/2018 at 5:24 PM, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

 

What this guy is saying is that if the international Umbra's stats are the same as the Chinese one, that means Founders will no longer be noticed and apparently that's a "d1ck move". It's kind of petty really. 

[-Ringed-Umbra-]

3 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

 

(...)

Of course, there's also a possibility that we get 2 rewards (a frame and a weapon) while they get 1 (a weapon).

Well maybe they get Excalibur prime but with a different design? like a trade off, we get Excal umbra without the prime on the name, and they get Excal prime without the famous helmet he has.

But still. it is likely they will get a new reward that can be exclusive to china only.

More likely is, since DE said there will be more Umbra than just Excalibur, that alone could auto fix this quest that china gets, because now we expect more Umbra and as we expect those other Umbra they will get them first, just like it happend with Excalibur umbra prime.

You can have Umbra as main importance on a very important quest, but that does not means it needs to be Excalibur Umbra in itself. We can treat Global vs china as different universes, while here Excal Umbra will be a reward and or has a important role on the quest, on china it can be Rhino Umbra or any.

To fix even more we can get both Excalibur AND Rhino Umbra while they will get only Rhino but a cinematic with Excalibur Umbra Prime present, in this case if DE ever releases a Comic book of this quest (because I think warframe also is on the world of comic books I believe), it can have both Excalibur and Rhino Umbra while still been true to the lore.

Still instead of Rhino Umbra it can be a weapon on its pleace, the fix would work the same but only us would get both while they will get just the weapon, and so on the next quest it would be fixed for both Global and China having the same rewards.

Edited January 8, 2018 by -Ringed-Umbra-

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

16 hours ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

What this guy is saying is that if the international Umbra's stats are the same as the Chinese one, that means Founders will no longer be noticed and apparently that's a "d1ck move". It's kind of petty really. 

That was only point 1 in the video.

3 points were raised in the video.

The other points about prime access and platinum prices of prime warframes are equally valid and those do not impact Founders only.

If the video is too long, you can watch from 2.47 onwards.

There is also a very important info that the creator of the video highlighted in the earlier portion of the video and that is DE has said there will be more than just Excalibur Umbra. This info can also be found on wiki and multiple sources.

He is the first of the Umbra line of frames and NOT the ONLY Umbra and this means whatever method he is gonna be released, farmed or introduced to us will be the method the other Umbras are going to be introduced and whatever relationship he has to Excalibur and Excalibur Prime will be what those other Umbras will have with their normal and Prime version.

In other words, if he is a reskin of Excalibur Prime which is also a reskin of Excalibur, all Umbras will be reskins of reskins.

If he is better than Excalibur Prime, all Umbras will be better than their Primes. If he is the same as Excalibur Prime, all Umbras will be same as their Primes.

It is very important to note that while it may seem like a "new frame" by receiving 25 more armor and/or 25 more energy for Excalibur and giving a change in look, when the same is done for the other Primes, the whole flaw in this system will become very obvious.

Founders will feel this first with this release because we will get 3 version of the exact same thing and once we slap on the mods and forma, the difference will be barely noticeable.

For non-Founders, this experience will be felt on the second Umbra.

To see it easier, pretend this is gonna be the release of Loki Umbra and Loki Umbra will have 25 more energy than Loki Prime and 25 more armor and 25 more energy than Loki. He will also have a passive that may be as unnoticeable or noticeable as the Prime version. Everything else will be same as Loki and Loki Prime.

Also, think about whether you feel noticeably different when using Loki vs using Loki Prime or [Insert Frame Name] vs [Insert Frame Name] Prime.

That is the main issue; NOT whether Founders will be noticed or not.

Edited January 9, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[KelsierSurvivor]

5 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

 

Yeah, it's exactly as LazerSkink said.

I saw a video of some chinese guy playing plague star on Chinaframe recently so the PC version is definitely still there.

I think this is one angle we can look at the whole issue to speculate on The Sacrifice as well.

Since Excalibur Umbra looks visually same as Excalibur Umbra Prime, the quest which if Chinaframe also gets can't possibly give Excalibur Umbra because to the Chinese Founders, that's the same as giving out Excalibur Umbra Prime but dropping "圣装".

Therefore, they must either be not allowed to do the quest which either means the lore from that quest won't matter (which is unlikely) or allowed to do the quest but given a different reward (which I think is more likely).

Since they can't possibly make a quest that mentions or gives an Umbra without the reward being an Umbra and since it can't be visual clone of Excalibur Umbra Prime for the chinese non-Founders, they will either receive another Umbra which we will get later or receive Umbra related gear.

Of course, there's also a possibility that we get 2 rewards (a frame and a weapon) while they get 1 (a weapon).

Well, maybe they will get Excalibur Prime instead? I think it kinda makes sense, except theirs just wouldn't be called Excalibur Prime, just Excalibur, uh... Eclipse? I dunno. Whatever the brightest part of a shadow is I guess. 

I think this would be fair to them. They never got Excalibur Prime, we never got Umbra. So since we are now going to get an Umbra that looks exactly the same as their prime, they should get an "Umbra" that looks exactly the same as our Prime. It wouldn't technically be releasing Excal Prime again, and still follows the contract. DE would give them an Excal Prime skinned Warframe that follows the story of our quest, just with a different Warframe. 

What do you guys think? Would this work? Does it still follow the contract? 

OoKeNnEtHoO, since you are a founder, I think you would be a good person to ask about this. I quoted you so you would get a notification. Lol. 

*Mischievous laghter*

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

i dunno 

ive had discussions of this type before

the possibility is that Excalibur umbra dosnt come to china frame 

but then it could also as its only a visual copy of the founders, locked behind lots of content points in the game 

as an globals umbra Excalibur =/= Excalibur umbra prime 

as that unit has prime passive and not the umbra mechanic , so in theory it could drop the quest in chinaframe without causing an issue, or possibly another umbra drops there that we get at a later date  

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

8 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Well, maybe they will get Excalibur Prime instead? I think it kinda makes sense, except theirs just wouldn't be called Excalibur Prime, just Excalibur, uh... Eclipse? I dunno. Whatever the brightest part of a shadow is I guess. 

I think this would be fair to them. They never got Excalibur Prime, we never got Umbra. So since we are now going to get an Umbra that looks exactly the same as their prime, they should get an "Umbra" that looks exactly the same as our Prime. It wouldn't technically be releasing Excal Prime again, and still follows the contract. DE would give them an Excal Prime skinned Warframe that follows the story of our quest, just with a different Warframe. 

What do you guys think? Would this work? Does it still follow the contract? 

OoKeNnEtHoO, since you are a founder, I think you would be a good person to ask about this. I quoted you so you would get a notification. Lol. 

*Mischievous laghter*

hahaha..maybe, maybe not but to be honest unlikely.

Because if DE was gonna release Excalibur Eclipse or whatever the Excalibur Prime lookalke is in Chinaframe, it would have been done in the first place instead of Excalibur Umbra Prime.

I did initially tried to find out more about Chinaframe lore to find differences that could potentially point towards the Sacrifice but as far as I am aware, their build is a carbon copy and their Excalibur Umbra Prime doesn't seem to have any actual lore tied to it for now.

Edited January 9, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[erasthmus]

going off of what kelseir said (despite the likelihood of that happening) who wants to brainstorm alternative names for excal prime going off of the light/shadow theme set by umbra?

excalibur arago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arago_spot )

candidus: (latin: pure white (used when descrining the togas of senators and politicians), radiant, unclouded, fair skinned/pale)

candens: (latin: shining bright white, boiling/ red-hot) 

albinine: (bastardization of latin albus meaning white/ eye-white)

canus: (latin: white-capped, wise, old, grey, hoary, white w/ snow/frost) (not to be confused with the latin canis/canem meaning dog) 

nitidus: (latin: shining, clear) also could bastardize into nitidine or some other variation

princeps: (latin: first, chief)

primus: (latin: first, original)

adsiduus: (latin: constant, unremitting, first-class)

just a fun little though exercise, but what other names do you guys think the orokin could have come up with?

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

14 minutes ago, erasthmus said:

going off of what kelseir said (despite the likelihood of that happening) who wants to brainstorm alternative names for excal prime going off of the light/shadow theme set by umbra?

excalibur arago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arago_spot )

candidus: (latin: pure white (used when descrining the togas of senators and politicians), radiant, unclouded, fair skinned/pale)

candens: (latin: shining bright white, boiling/ red-hot) 

albinine: (bastardization of latin albus meaning white/ eye-white)

canus: (latin: white-capped, wise, old, grey, hoary, white w/ snow/frost) (not to be confused with the latin canis/canem meaning dog) 

nitidus: (latin: shining, clear) also could bastardize into nitidine or some other variation

princeps: (latin: first, chief)

primus: (latin: first, original)

adsiduus: (latin: constant, unremitting, first-class)

just a fun little though exercise, but what other names do you guys think the orokin could have come up with?

Maybe Radiance.

Excalibur Radiance.

The naming convention may even be pre-fix manner like Radiant Excalibur.

It will be in chinese though.

Excalibur is called 圣剑 there.

So, it will something 圣剑 or 圣剑 something.

They use 圣装 as Prime and 暗影 as Umbra.

暗影圣装圣剑 is the name given to their Excalibur Umbra Prime.

Edited January 9, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO